I am planning a bwca trip heading in July 5th and would like to explore some smaller waterways and rivers. We will have 12 days and two vehicles so a loop ending somewhat close to the start is preferred. This will be my second trip after a 12 day trip in 2015. That trip was basically just lakes. Any river suggestions?

i like the Frost river and Louse River.

quote Mocha: "i like the Frost river and Louse River."

Would there be any need to worry about low water navigation in early to mid July? I have been looking at a possible Temperence River to Frost River, to Boulder, then Kawishiwi River into Malberg. From there either out at ep37, out to ep38, or through the fire lakes back to Baker. An option could be Malberg through the Louse then a 460r portage. Another option could be Frost then through Hub lake into Louse.

Are there pretty little falls or mostly just flat meandering streams?

EP 14 to 16 or reverse would have some small river travel. Some small falls/rapids to portage around and take pictures. Also some larger drops including devils cascade.

Not sure prettiest but I'm looking at entering 36, west on Isabella through to Gabbros and than north and east on Kawishiwi, and out at 37. Figure we'll camp at Kawishiwi Lake night before entry, shuttle gear to Hog Creek, drive back to and park car at Kawishiwi Lake, and walk back to Hog Creek. Guessing just about 12 days. Might go north on Bald Eagle through Hull to Clearwater and do the (unmaintained?) portage to Lake Two or Three.

I like the rivers, but with the rivers comes portage, portage, portage.

I have completed the Kawishiwi River from Kawishiwi Lake to the South Fork campground at Highway 1. The river is a gem and it will take you through some pretty nice lakes as well as narrow channels. It is a rather easy go and the portages are easy.

I highly recommend following Hog Creek to Perent River to Isabella River and on to the Kawishiwi. Here the portages are a bit more numerous, but still good. Hog creek can get a bit boring with it's meandering ways through moose brush, but it will take you to the Perent R and that river segment is well worth doing.

The Louse River is a good one through beautiful country. Wear your stout portage boots because some of these trails look much like a rocky creek bed.

Frost River is on tap for this year. The number of portages looks a bit intimidating especially because we will be traveling heavy on a 10 days excursion. It has been on my bucket list for a long time

I like the rivers; downsides are the possibility of low water/muddy extended portages, numerous short portages and beaver dam pullovers with a lot of in-and-out and load/unload which slows travel, and they can be buggy. You can do a long loop with 12 days, but rivers with a lot of short portages and beaver dam pullovers/bushwhacks will be a little slower going than last time.

Are all the kids going to be with you?

The Kawishiwi is probably the biggest and the easiest travel. It's scenic and varies in size with few beaver dams. There are pictographs at Fishdance to the SE. Last fall I looped from EP #37, Kawishiwi Lake, to Fishdance, then N through Thomas to Boulder and back. There is a trip report and some photos. I have also gone NE out of Malberg and back down to Sawbill. There's a nice section of paddling on the Kelso River there with the Kelso dolmen to see.

I have not done the Frost, but have heard it's a long day's travel between campsites with numerous beaver dams in addition to all the portages. Nor have I done the Temperance River.

I have not done the Louse River or the Phoebe River through the Lady Chain of Lakes, but they are on my list. They could be incorporated to make a route that starts and ends at Sawbill. Or either one could be part of a trip between Sawbill and Kawishiwi Lake, whose entries are 10-15 miles apart for a short shuttle for you.

The section of river between Kawishiwi Lake and Polly Lake is along the edge of the burn from the Pagami Creek wildfire. Previously, I had done trips on the Island River, Isabella River, and Little Isabella River, but that was before they were pretty toasted by the Pagami Creek fire.

The Total River Immersion route:

Entry 38: Sawbill Lake:

Day 1: Sawbill to Jack (Temperance River) Sawbill, Smoke, Burnt, Kelly, Jack (or Weird). Once camp is set up, go back to the Kelly/Jack portage and find the abandoned gold mine.

Day 2. Jack to Frost (Temperance River) Jack, Weird, pond, South Temperance, North Temperance, Sitka, Cherokee, Gordon, Frost Lake.

Day 3. Frost to Afton Lake (Frost River) Frost Lake, Frost River, Octopus Lake, Frost River, Chase Lake, Pencil Lake, Frost River, Afton Lake.

Day 4, Afton Lake to Dent Lake. Afton, Fente, Hub, Mesaba, Chaser, Dent

Day 5, Dent to Trail Lake. (Louse River) Dent, Bug, Louse River, Trail Lake

Day 6. Trail to Malberg Lake. (Louse River) Tail Lake, Louse River, Boze Lake, Frond Lake, Louse River, Mesaba Lake.

Day 7. Day trip - Malberg to Fishdance Lake (Kawishiwi River) Malberg to Kawishiwi River to Fishdance and back. Visit the Pictographs on Fishdance.

Day 8 Malberg to Phoebe Lake. (Phoebe River) Malberg, Koma, Polly, Phoebe River, Hazel Lake, Phoebe River, Knight Lake, Phoebe River, Phoebe Lake.
.
Day 9 Phoebe to Alton Lake. Phoebe Lake, Phoebe River, Grace Lake, Beth Lake, Alton Lake. (Or Kelso Lake if Alton in full.)

Day 10. Day trip. Loop Route. (Kelso River) Alton Lake, Sawbill Lake, Kelso River, Kelso Lake, Kelso River to Lujenida Lake (Visit the Dolman), back to Kelso River and Kelso Lake to Alton Lake.

Day 11 (Add this layover day wherever you need it. I would suggest at Dent Lake before you head out on the Louse River.)

Day 12 Alton to Sawbill and out.

Thoughts on the route: This route puts you on 6 rivers in 12 days.

The first 3 days are the hardest. If you wanted to make the first 3 days easier, you could get a shuttle from Sawbill outfitters to the Baker Lake (Entry 39). Head to South Temperance for the first night and then to Frost Lake for night 2. You would travel the entire Temperance River portion in the BW that way.

The only really rough days are the Frost River and the second half of the Louse (Trail to Malberg.) You can split the Frost in half by stopping at the campsite on Bolgna Lake if you feel you can't make it all the way by the time you get there.
The only portion water levels could be problematic is the Frost.

I chose this direction around the loop because it puts you going downstream on both the Frost and Louse Rivers. That helps on heading over the many beaver dams on both these rivers.

This would be an epic journey. Not sure I would undertake it on my second trip to the BW. One reply mentioned kids? While this is not what I would consider a death march for a 12 day trip, it is rugged and strenuous at many points. There are not many younger kid friendly places along this route.

Hope your trip is a great one!

Wow Michwall2, that certainly is an epic journey. I had been eyeing something like that and one could put in at #39 Baker and take out at #38. I would almost wish for about 14 days to do that trip instead of 12 to allow more down days.

Yes my kids will be coming and it will be the same group of nine of us as went in 2015. That is myself, my wife, my sister-in-law, their dad, and a combined 5 kids now ages 10-12. My daughter would be excited about the route and she is begging for a challenge. But reality has a way of catching up to grand ideas sometimes so I don't want to bite off too much. But that route sure would be unforgettable I imagine and it is very tempting. There were a few other ideas some folks mentioned and I will look at those also.

The kids can normally single portage with at least a three adults doing a double portage so the kids do have more time to chill out. All the kids are very experienced backpackers since just out of diapers and my three have done 15 mile trips in 3 days no problem. The kids are begging for a Canadian trip to go find the fabled "sanctuary lake" of the Sam Campbell books but that trip will not be this year.

The pictographs off of Fishdance were ones I wanted to see on my 2015 trip but did not make it.

I have no experience portaging over beaver dams so I am a bit unsure how long that takes and what specific challenges are involved. I imagine it depends on the dam as to whether you go over the top or figure a route around. Taking out a bunch of packs on top of a narrow dam sounds like a recipe for easy trouble or at least gear easily landing in the water. There probably is a trick to it but I just don't know.

The little ones you just pull the canoe across. The bigger ones, with a larger drop, you best lighten the load to not stress the bridged bottom of the canoe.

quote cowdoc: "The little ones you just pull the canoe across. The bigger ones, with a larger drop, you best lighten the load to not stress the bridged bottom of the canoe.


"

Thanks. I also think one would certainly want some decent boots and not light sandals or flip flops if stepping on all those little twigs and branches.

Here's a link to a fairly recent Frost River trip report . Wednesday 8/31 is the day you want to scroll down to - it will give you a good idea about the Frost River travel experience.

Michwall mentioned camping on Bologna, but my recollection from past research is that the camp is marginal at best and quite possibly not viable for a group of nine. Perhaps someone who has been there will chime in on that.

Beaver dams can be anywhere from fairly benign to brutish :).

I'll also mention that the Fente to Hub portage is enough of a grunt to make even a hillbilly feel at home :). Check the topo for elevation gain at the beginning.

The Frost is hauntingly beautiful. We did it during high water in the early season.

It may always stand out as one of the toughest days Ive ever had in the BWCA.

quote GoSpursGo: "The Frost is hauntingly beautiful. We did it during high water in the early season.


It may always stand out as one of the toughest days Ive ever had in the BWCA."

Maybe it was my mindset going in? Perhaps I was more prepared mentally for the Frost, but I thought the Louse was tougher. There are portages that are total rock gardens. After walking those rock garden portages, you encounter other rock gardens and wonder if the portage goes through there or does it follow this path over here. There is one spot on a portage where there is a ravine. You go almost straight down 10-14 feet and then immediately back up an even steeper incline on the other side. The route finding is tougher. Beaver dams/ponds have obliterated parts of marked portages. There are places to put in and avoid half the rest of portages, if you know where to look. There are more beaver dams than on the Frost.

We had enough water on the Frost that we could line the canoes past a couple portages. We paddled over at least 3 beaver dams. We pulled over a couple of beaver dams that we could see others had made make shift portages around. There was enough water below them to float through.

I agree that the Frost was almost mystical, but we had experiences on the Louse that were equal or better.

Michwall-

The 2016 Frost River trip report I linked references 14-18 beaver dams on the Frost. Were there more than that on the Louse? And what years are your experiences?

quote boonie: "Michwall-


The 2016 Frost River trip report I linked references 14-18 beaver dams on the Frost. Were there more than that on the Louse? And what years are your experiences? "

We were on the Frost the first week of August last summer. We had more problems with trees blown down across portages than beaver dams.

We did the Louse either 2011 or 2012. I think it was 2011. Also the first or second week of August. My son remembers at least 12 beaver dams on the Louse. Water levels were pretty low.

quote boonie: "Here's a link to a fairly recent Frost River trip report . Wednesday 8/31 is the day you want to scroll down to - it will give you a good idea about the Frost River travel experience.


Michwall mentioned camping on Bologna, but my recollection from past research is that the camp is marginal at best and quite possibly not viable for a group of nine. Perhaps someone who has been there will chime in on that.


Beaver dams can be anywhere from fairly benign to brutish :).


I'll also mention that the Fente to Hub portage is enough of a grunt to make even a hillbilly feel at home :). Check the topo for elevation gain at the beginning."

Steve
In your August 2016 trip report while on the Hub portage you write: "It was obvious from there and to all points north that the portages must have been a general snarl of downed timber following the blow, but the portages were as tidy as sweat and effort could possibly have made them."

When did that blow down occur and what problems (if any) with blow down did you encounter on the Frost River ?

HPD-

The report I linked was by 1bogfrog, not me, so I can't answer. Steve and I did the Fente to Hub portage in 2014 coming from Little Sag and there was no blowdown then, so I think the reference was probably to the storm that occurred earlier in 2016 before her trip.

Hi HPD! When we were through the Frost on the last day of August, there were no issues with downed trees on the Frost. While there was plenty of evidence of the mess that had occurred, the waterways and portages were clear. I'm guessing that the portage crews had gone through in the intervening 3-4 weeks between Michwall's trip and our own, perhaps even days prior to our going through judging by the evidence of recent work.

While there were indeed a number of beaver dams, the water was high enough that none of them were bad enough to require swearing :) The fact that we could make it from Crooked, down through the Frost and into the south part of Cherokee in 10 hours is a good indicator of the degree of difficulty involved in that stretch. We knew we'd done a day of serious work, but it wasn't back breaking.

The hubby and I are planning on doing our trip this summer through the Lady Chain with a swing up through Adams, down through Makwa and back to Sawbill via the Louse River so I'm excidedly keeping my eye on this thread for any news of the Louse. It will be my first time through there!

quote 1bogfrog: "Hi HPD! When we were through the Frost on the last day of August, there were no issues with downed trees on the Frost. While there was plenty of evidence of the mess that had occurred, the waterways and portages were clear. I'm guessing that the portage crews had gone through in the intervening 3-4 weeks between Michwall's trip and our own, perhaps even days prior to our going through judging by the evidence of recent work.


While there were indeed a number of beaver dams, the water was high enough that none of them were bad enough to require swearing :) The fact that we could make it from Crooked, down through the Frost and into the south part of Cherokee in 10 hours is a good indicator of the degree of difficulty involved in that stretch. We knew we'd done a day of serious work, but it wasn't back breaking.


The hubby and I are planning on doing our trip this summer through the Lady Chain with a swing up through Adams, down through Makwa and back to Sawbill via the Louse River so I'm excidedly keeping my eye on this thread for any news of the Louse. It will be my first time through there!"

1bogfrog

Ask at Sawbill Outfitters about a couple of spots on the Louse before you head out:

1. The portage from Frond to Boze. The portage marked on the south side of the river supposedly has been changed to the north. We missed that and it did not hurt us, but we had to portage through some stream bed to get to enough water (We were headed east to west.).

2. Along the marked 190 rod portage east of Frond Lake you may be able to shorten that portage by paddling a section of the river instead.

We loved the Louse. Hope you have a great trip.

I liked the Louse river trip I made, didn't see anybody the entire time we were on the Louse, here's my video channel about this trip Louse river

Cool string of videos. Seems like they get a bit out of order but I was able to follow along. Thanks for posting!

quote HighPlainsDrifter: "

quote boonie: "Here's a link to a fairly recent Frost River trip report . Wednesday 8/31 is the day you want to scroll down to - it will give you a good idea about the Frost River travel experience.
Michwall mentioned camping on Bologna, but my recollection from past research is that the camp is marginal at best and quite possibly not viable for a group of nine. Perhaps someone who has been there will chime in on that.
Beaver dams can be anywhere from fairly benign to brutish :).
I'll also mention that the Fente to Hub portage is enough of a grunt to make even a hillbilly feel at home :). Check the topo for elevation gain at the beginning."

Steve
In your August 2016 trip report while on the Hub portage you write: "It was obvious from there and to all points north that the portages must have been a general snarl of downed timber following the blow, but the portages were as tidy as sweat and effort could possibly have made them." When did that blow down occur and what problems (if any) with blow down did you encounter on the Frost River ?"

i was through both the Frost and Louse rivers in late september 2009. there must have been some wind earlier that summer as we found several fresher looking cuts along several portages. the Hub to Mesaba was one of them. it's a beautiful portage after the "climb".

quote 1bogfrog: "Hi HPD! When we were through the Frost on the last day of August, there were no issues with downed trees on the Frost. While there was plenty of evidence of the mess that had occurred, the waterways and portages were clear. I'm guessing that the portage crews had gone through in the intervening 3-4 weeks between Michwall's trip and our own, perhaps even days prior to our going through judging by the evidence of recent work.


While there were indeed a number of beaver dams, the water was high enough that none of them were bad enough to require swearing :) The fact that we could make it from Crooked, down through the Frost and into the south part of Cherokee in 10 hours is a good indicator of the degree of difficulty involved in that stretch. We knew we'd done a day of serious work, but it wasn't back breaking.


The hubby and I are planning on doing our trip this summer through the Lady Chain with a swing up through Adams, down through Makwa and back to Sawbill via the Louse River so I'm excidedly keeping my eye on this thread for any news of the Louse. It will be my first time through there!"

Thanks for tips. You travel a lot harder than I. I doubt I could make Cherokee from Crooked.

Anyway, the Louse is a pretty one. I think my favorite portage was the 190 into Boze. The trail is on the hillside above the river. Very scenic. My son and I went through downstream (east to west) the first week in June 2013. Coming upstream (west to east) the portages may be more difficult to find. I remember one where we came off the trail to the river. The river at that point looked to have 2 branches of equal size. If you hit a spot like that, go left and immediately look right for the trail. As others have said in the rock gardens you never really are sure if you are on a trail......... just forge ahead.

quote HighPlainsDrifter:
"

That picture gives me exactly the kind of scenery I was hoping I'd find out that direction!

quote 1bogfrog: "

quote HighPlainsDrifter:
"

That picture gives me exactly the kind of scenery I was hoping I'd find out that direction!"

Take time to "smell the roses" along the Louse. The Louse offers good camping along the way. We took our time (started and ended our trip on Round). In the Louse country we camped on Wine, Dent, Trail, and Boze.

Mug Lake is a pretty one watch for the water fall if traveling in spring (SW side).


One of my most favorite camps was on Dent (east side).

One thing that bothers me about the Frost is the non-stop effort required to get through. That is not my idea of tripping. But, we will do it in June regardless.

In my mind, the best and prettiest rivers for tripping are not in the BWCA. Lakes in the b-dub are the featured item on the menu. Lots of cool rivers in MN for tripping, and the DNR has maps available for all. Try the Namekagen in WI for a truly beautiful river.
I know that isn't what you asked, but there you go :)

quote boonie: "Here's a link to a fairly recent Frost River trip report . Wednesday 8/31 is the day you want to scroll down to - it will give you a good idea about the Frost River travel experience.


Michwall mentioned camping on Bologna, but my recollection from past research is that the camp is marginal at best and quite possibly not viable for a group of nine. Perhaps someone who has been there will chime in on that.


Beaver dams can be anywhere from fairly benign to brutish :).


I'll also mention that the Fente to Hub portage is enough of a grunt to make even a hillbilly feel at home :). Check the topo for elevation gain at the beginning."

The bologna camp is probably not suited for a group of nine for sure. Was a nice spot for me and my dog. The site on Afton would be much better suited for the larger group. Maybe plan on camping on frost lake and making it to Afton in a day. The surprise is at the end of the portage after pencil lake. That's where the water disappeared on my jaunt through there.

quote lundojam: "In my mind, the best and prettiest rivers for tripping are not in the BWCA. Lakes in the b-dub are the featured item on the menu. Lots of cool rivers in MN for tripping, and the DNR has maps available for all. Try the Namekagen in WI for a truly beautiful river.
I know that isn't what you asked, but there you go :)"

Thanks much. I will look into this. I have paddled through the Florida everglades and I am not married to doing a trip in the BWCA but the wilderness there is awesome and does not have alligators. In fact I often have wished for a great place to do some canoe tripping that does not have size restrictions to the group as a few more family members would love to join us. I am just not aware of such a place but perhaps others do know.

i can't believe no one mentioned the basswood river, or in the quetico the maligne or quetico rivers. anyways if you are looking for a river with no restrictions and amazing fishing try the little fork river , just west of superior national forest it is very wild, you'll see far fewer people than in the bwca.

An old Post, to be sure.

How do you think some of these rivers would be this year, with the lack of rain?