I am wrapping my mind around a possible Quetico trip this summer and have a few questions. My thinking was to get a bwca permit for the same day I obtained a Quetico entry permit as the route I was looking at could enter both the same day. How is the fee in Quetico calculated and paid? For instance I put in on day 1 but am unsure if I will be out on day 8 or 10. Do I get a refund for unused days? If I go over my original plan do I then stop by a Canadian ranger station leaving Quetico to settle the extra?

My understanding is that my original bwca permit would then allow me to camp within the bwca when I enter back from Canada.

Camping fees are calculated per NIGHT and you pay for your camping fees at the ranger station. When you make your reservation, you pay a reservation fee ($9.00 or so) and prepay $100 of your camping fees. When you get to the ranger station, they'll calculate how much you owe based on the number of nights you're planning to stay in the park, then deduct the $100 that you prepaid and you owe the balance. I suppose there would be a credit if the $100 exceeds your camping fees. It's never happened to us. For clarity, call the ranger station.

If you come out early, you could stop at a ranger station and get a refund. If you stay longer, you should stop at a ranger station and pay the additional fees. I would think you could pay the additional fees over the phone, too. Not sure if they'd believe you if you tried to get a refund after you already got home. Personally, I'd consider it a donation to the park and forget about it.

Your first question, I think, has to do with your entry day. If you get a BW permit for your Q entry date and then leave the BW to enter the Q technically your BW permit is no longer valid. What I have done in your situation is to book a BW permit called "from Canada" and use the date I expect to cross back into the US. Probably not a big deal either way but would be the correct way to do it, I believe.
Your second question is how many days to you pay for in the Q. I think most everyone does their best to be as precise as possible as to our exit day and then pay for those days. Canadian rangers have told me on two different occasions that they would understand if someone was late leaving by a day if there had been a big wind that prevents you from moving. If you leave early you will not get a refund barring an emergency. Even the emergency requires a written appeal to the Park with some sort of documentation as to why you had to leave. Happened to me once and the Park was good about returning fees for our group----although I had to submit an Ely Emergency Room summary to prove I really did have a medical issue.
Finally, I assume you have the RABC, permit, fishing license, passport, etc. all figured out.
Geez, sounds complicated.
But well worth it.

quote GraniteCliffs: "Your first question, I think, has to do with your entry day. If you get a BW permit for your Q entry date and then leave the BW to enter the Q technically your BW permit is no longer valid. What I have done in your situation is to book a BW permit called "from Canada" and use the date I expect to cross back into the US. Probably not a big deal either way but would be the correct way to do it, I believe.
"

I saw this on the sticky thread...

" If your trip starts in Canada and you exit via the BWCA, and you are camping in the BWCA, you must possess a valid BWCA entry point permit #71 which allows overnight camping in the BWCA accessed from Canada. If you camp overnight in the BWCA, travel to Quetico, and return to camp again in the US, the same permit that was issued to you in the beginning of your trip is still valid for the last US leg of your trip."

It was with that info that I thought to book one for the entry day and then whenever I returned to the US side would hardly matter for the US permit. Maybe a day use permit for entry day then one for 71 would be best.

I wonder if you can get a refund easier than said above. I have heard others get refunds at the ranger station-reason they came out early? I know Quetico at present is on a very tight budget. If I come out a day early so far I just call it a donation. Their crew numbers in Quetico is a fraction of what it was 10 years ago.

I know if your trip is less than the original $100 you will get credit put back into your credit card account,unless they have changed policy in the last year.

quote vnzill: "

quote GraniteCliffs: "Your first question, I think, has to do with your entry day. If you get a BW permit for your Q entry date and then leave the BW to enter the Q technically your BW permit is no longer valid. What I have done in your situation is to book a BW permit called "from Canada" and use the date I expect to cross back into the US. Probably not a big deal either way but would be the correct way to do it, I believe.
"

I saw this on the sticky thread...

" If your trip starts in Canada and you exit via the BWCA, and you are camping in the BWCA, you must possess a valid BWCA entry point permit #71 which allows overnight camping in the BWCA accessed from Canada. If you camp overnight in the BWCA, travel to Quetico, and return to camp again in the US, the same permit that was issued to you in the beginning of your trip is still valid for the last US leg of your trip."

It was with that info that I thought to book one for the entry day and then whenever I returned to the US side would hardly matter for the US permit. Maybe a day use permit for entry day then one for 71 would be best."

Based on correspondence with the USFS, I believe that what you refer to is incorrect. If you leave the BWCA the permit is invalid. You'll find the a lot of sources that say otherwise, like the sticky, as well as outfitters and maybe even some USFS rangers, but the official rule I received in writing a few years ago says otherwise.

Now, the possibilities of getting caught are so slim that they must rival winning a lotto.

Do carry a blank overnight paddle permit so you have it if you want to paddle out through BWCA on same day.

Several years ago the ranger at PP (Cathy?) said I could get a refund but that it was easier (for them I think) to pay for extra days than give a refund. I ended up leaving a two days early and considered it a donation.

Although people report getting refunds, I would not count on that. I swear I remember on their booking website or permit it says no refunds if you leave early. I wouldn't be surprised if some stations do make exceptions and do refunds, but I think they can say no pretty easily. I never rely on the Rangers at the stations for knowing he rules exactly...they are usually more on the clerical side rather than enforcement. Then again I am basing that on memory FWIW :)

If you stay beyond your permit time and get caught, regardless of your intentions I can guarantee you will get a fine. I don't think the person that got the advice to stay longer and pay for extra days on your way out is sound advice by whatever park official gave it. I wouldn't trust that. Then again your chances of getting pulled over are minimal, but there is a chance. If you email the park Superintendent they may give you special exception, but you would need to have a copy of that exception on you while in the park.

T

Thanks for the responses. It sounds like camping in the BWCA then Quetico, then camping again in the BWCA is not a good idea since I would technically need two BWCA permits. I should instead do a day use permit for going through the BWCA into Quetico, figure a precise number of days there and stick to that and base that permit on those days. Then either have another day use permit on me for coming back into the BWCA or arrange ahead of time for EP71 on the exact day I would be leaving Quetico so I could continue a trip Stateside. One could also then do a BWCA permit prior to Quetico and have a day use for on the way out.

Then if not entering at a station, have a RABC permit for all in our group that needs one along with fishing licenses and passports.

Ugh. I dislike having to figure exact days on a wilderness trip along with all the paperwork. I so prefer how the BWCA is setup with just an entry fee. I think it is now clear in my mind.

On the question of the Quetico refund if you leave early: The Ontario Parks policy definitely says you do NOT get a refund. However, I have gotten a refund twice when I left early due to unforeseen problems - first time my dog got sick, second time I injured my wrist. Both times the rangers at Prairie Portage suggested the refund. The first time I had paid by check because I self-issued before the park opened, so I couldn't get the refund (which in that case was pretty large) until they processed the check at HQ. Second time I had paid by credit card and the ranger processed the refund on my way out. That said, in most cases I don't think you should count on a refund, and I have left a day early several times and never felt like I should ask for or get one. You can always ask the rangers on your way out (assuming you are exiting past a ranger station) and just see what they say. But you should start with the assumption that you aren't getting a refund if you leave early. Just count it as part of the cost of a trip to the Best Place In The World®.

On the question about the BW permit - I was always under the impression that a BW permit is void when you go into Quetico and you need a new one to return to and camp in the BW, but some years ago a member here called a ranger station and was told that is not true, the original overnight camping permit is still valid. If I recall correctly, the regulations say an overnight BW permit is valid until you leave "the wilderness." I had always thought that meant "the BWCA Wilderness" so it would be void if you go into Quetico. But of course it could also encompass "the wilderness" in Quetico (which is officially designated wilderness under Ontario law) and still be valid when you have gone to Quetico. My guess is that you might get different answers if you ask different Superior National Forest officials. My suggestion is that you call the ranger station responsible for the area you entering in, ask the question, and then rely on the answer. If they tell you the permit is still valid after going into Quetico, make a note of the when you had the conversation and who you talked to so you have that information if you were checked.