So I'm finally going to refinish my Q17 and my new-to-me Tranquility at same time.

Remove decals or coat? I can get new SR logo decals so thinking remove all and then just reinstall those (and flying moose of course!)

I think I've settled on West 105 resin with 207 hardener as seems to be the most recommended product. Thoughts on that?

I will probably top coat with spar, but since it is stored in a garage, maybe not necessary.

How much will I need? It seems like 1 qt per canoe is not enough so probably a gallon. I also have some float tank repair on Q17 so some there. Anyone know shelf life after opening?

Is the mini-pump set worth it? I have another fibreglass project I might do so seemed worth it if they last.

Pour on and foam rollers? Do I need a brush other than perhaps a foam one to cut edges?

What did I forget? I have the SR instructions. Red Rock seem to have deleted theirs.

Just waiting for warm days and free weekend. (Suppose to be near or below freezing here tonight!)

I did search here and read several but just checking for any newer experiences.

Thanks.

Hopefully in another 3/4 weeks I will be at the same point so interested in what others have to say. All I can add is I do find the dispensers to be very worth it.

I haven't refinished on myself (one day), but I do recall Joe at RedRock had a series of videos on refinishing SR boats. Just search "refinish souris river canoe" and they will pop.

I've done my SR twice with the west system and I still have some left in the quart I bought. However, I think it has a long shelf life so if you have two canoes and think you might do it again, a gallon is probably worth it...I think the metering pumps would be the first to go.

I found this guide to be very helpful:

killarney outfitters

Oh and if you want it to look first class I'd remove and replace the decals. Lacquer thinner is kind of hard on them.

Pour on and foam rollers.
Here's a technique I used for varnishing my solo stripper, that turned out like glass. I'd use the same method for the skim coat of epoxy too. Roll your coating on with a foam roller on about an 18" section at a time from the center of the bottom of your boat to the gunnel then tip it with a foam brush with horizontal strokes to take out the air bubbles and orange peel. Doing smaller sections at a time keeps a wet edge so it blends together seamlessly. It does leave a small ridge down the center of the keel but it's not that noticeable.
Varnishing technique

If you have structural repairs, then epoxy would be needed for that. If you are looking to simply refinish and get the canoe looking new again, marine grade varnish is all that is needed.

I have, in the past, sanded down with 80/120/220. I often skip the 80 and start with 120, then 220. Wipe the canoe down, then with a tack cloth. Use paint tray and 6" white foam roller and roll on varnish. I would not pour varnish or epoxy directly onto canoe. Use a tray. I normally apply 3 coats, with a very light sand in-between coats. No need to remove stickers, unless they are peeling. Varnish right over them.

I will see about attaching a few photos.

And then I forgot to add a picture. Here is a great example of refinishing a SR canoe midway through application of varnish. Again this is just marine grade varnish. It gives fresh uv protection, gives a fresh coat and eliminates all of those small cosmetic scratches.



And another good example of a before and after with marine grade varnish

quote Royce: "
If you have structural repairs, then epoxy would be needed for that. If you are looking to simply refinish and get the canoe looking new again, marine grade varnish is all that is needed.

I have, in the past, sanded down with 80/120/220. I often skip the 80 and start with 120, then 220. Wipe the canoe down, then with a tack cloth. Use paint tray and 6" white foam roller and roll on varnish. I would not pour varnish or epoxy directly onto canoe. Use a tray. I normally apply 3 coats, with a very light sand in-between coats. No need to remove stickers, unless they are peeling. Varnish right over them.
"

I did the same as above, only I wiped down the canoe with denatured alcohol as opposed to the the tack cloth (I was afraid of leaving tack cloth residue). I used Epifanes varnish and one quart got me through maybe four coats on an SRQ 17 with a light sanding between coats. Be sure to cut the varnish or it won't lay as well. I used a random orbiting sander with no ill effects and it really speeded up the process. I would only use epoxy if I was repairing damage. Varnish provides UV protection that epoxy does not provide. You will be very pleased with the outcome. Good luck!

I've gone with varnish twice area. I think this spring when I get it out I am going to lightly sand the scratched area and just do them rather than the entire canoe....

Here is Joe's instructions that used to be on his website... It has not been on his website for a long time

Refinish SR Canoe

dr bob

If I get a lot of orange peel or quills with the first epoxy coat, I'll lightly sand and give it a quick second coat that I cut with denatured alcohol....about 15% by volume mixed in well. This second coat goes on easier with less drag and finishes off nicer.
I've always found the pumps handy for metering, but they can be finicky. Make sure to "prime" them so they are full for a full pump. If sitting a long time between uses, take them off and clean them.

Tagging in a second time. West System says their epoxy is not UV stable and needs some sort of coating (marine varnish for example). Killarney link was great, but this was left out.

quote millcreekrat: "Tagging in a second time. West System says their epoxy is not UV stable and needs some sort of coating (marine varnish for example). Killarney link was great, but this was left out.
"

You can use Turtlewax Ice car wax for UV protection over West System. Can't remember is I read that on the KIllarney site or somewhere else. It's a lot cheaper and way easier than marine varnish.

Interesting idea. Reapply after a couple weeks of water use?

If you do decide you need to refinish with epoxy you typically go just to or just above the water line. Epoxy vs vinylester... the epoxy will want to run almost no matter how thin you put it on. Usually tape the line you want and spread it as thin as you can. They make a scraper / squeegee for this. Or I like the paint roller idea. Your main concern is where there is excessive wear or other issues. Proper sanding and roughing up and wiping down with denatured alcohol is what you'd need to do. But like said, if it isn't wore down too bad, just marine varnish it. You don't have to worry about stickers and such unless you have them in hand and you can spruce the thing up a bit.

I've read a lot - I'm sure not all - of the threads here on refinishing, and some on other sites. One thing that seems to come through is that just good spar varnish is probably enough unless there are deep scratches or exposed cloth, then the epoxy helps. Does the idea of just sanding, hitting the deeper scratches and (one area) of exposed fiberglass with epoxy, maybe twice if needed, sand (I read a lot about a wet sanding here), and then 2-3 coats of spar over all, make sense? Just use epoxy where there is "structural" benefit and varnish otherwise?

quote billconner: "I've read a lot - I'm sure not all - of the threads here on refinishing, and some on other sites. One thing that seems to come through is that just good spar varnish is probably enough unless there are deep scratches or exposed cloth, then the epoxy helps. Does the idea of just sanding, hitting the deeper scratches and (one area) of exposed fiberglass with epoxy, maybe twice if needed, sand (I read a lot about a wet sanding here), and then 2-3 coats of spar over all, make sense? Just use epoxy where there is "structural" benefit and varnish otherwise?


"

I bought a rental Q17 last year from Ely and used this method, along with patching up a rib. I've done the same to cedar strips, too. My feeling is that there are areas that need some epoxy, but only about 0.001% of the boat. Why add a couple of pounds of epoxy if you don't need it?

Does the idea of just sanding, hitting the deeper scratches and (one area) of exposed fiberglass with epoxy, maybe twice if needed, sand (I read a lot about a wet sanding here), and then 2-3 coats of spar over all, make sense? Just use epoxy where there is "structural" benefit and varnish otherwise?

Bingo, you've got it. Just be aware that if you spot coat epoxy you'll have a bit of sanding to do after it's cured for a couple days to blend it in with the rest of the hull.

Wet sanding helps with dust as well as keeping the paper from loading up. Other than that I don't think there's anything special about it. Seems to be more of a benefit for finer grits. I don't bother wet sanding unless I'm handing sanding with some higher than 600 grit. Otherwise I'm using my orbital sander connected to a vacuum.

Use a quality stearated sandpaper and loading shouldn't be an issue.

Alan

Yep, no need to wet sand your epoxy repair, just level it with the random orbiting sander and a fine grit paper. Hit the entire canoe with the sander between a couple coats of varnish and she will come out beautifully.

So the smallest epoxy kit.

I've not seen specific spar varnish recommendations. Anyone? And will a quart do 2-3 coats, or step up to a gallon, which seems to cost just a little more than 2 quarts.

One quart of spar will be plenty for the outside and probably a coat or two on the inside as well if you were planning on it.

Minwax Helmsman is what I use. It's available almost anywhere, relatively inexpensive, and well thought of.

Link to a thread with good information about varnish preferences and application methods.

Alan

quote unshavenman: "

quote Royce: "
If you have structural repairs, then epoxy would be needed for that. If you are looking to simply refinish and get the canoe looking new again, marine grade varnish is all that is needed.


I have, in the past, sanded down with 80/120/220. I often skip the 80 and start with 120, then 220. Wipe the canoe down, then with a tack cloth. Use paint tray and 6" white foam roller and roll on varnish. I would not pour varnish or epoxy directly onto canoe. Use a tray. I normally apply 3 coats, with a very light sand in-between coats. No need to remove stickers, unless they are peeling. Varnish right over them.
"

I did the same as above, only I wiped down the canoe with denatured alcohol as opposed to the the tack cloth (I was afraid of leaving tack cloth residue). I used Epifanes varnish and one quart got me through maybe four coats on an SRQ 17 with a light sanding between coats. Be sure to cut the varnish or it won't lay as well. I used a random orbiting sander with no ill effects and it really speeded up the process. I would only use epoxy if I was repairing damage. Varnish provides UV protection that epoxy does not provide. You will be very pleased with the outcome. Good luck! "

WOW! Beautiful finish.

quote Wables: "

quote billconner: "I've read a lot - I'm sure not all - of the threads here on refinishing, and some on other sites. One thing that seems to come through is that just good spar varnish is probably enough unless there are deep scratches or exposed cloth, then the epoxy helps. Does the idea of just sanding, hitting the deeper scratches and (one area) of exposed fiberglass with epoxy, maybe twice if needed, sand (I read a lot about a wet sanding here), and then 2-3 coats of spar over all, make sense? Just use epoxy where there is "structural" benefit and varnish otherwise?



"

I bought a rental Q17 last year from Ely and used this method, along with patching up a rib. I've done the same to cedar strips, too. My feeling is that there are areas that need some epoxy, but only about 0.001% of the boat. Why add a couple of pounds of epoxy if you don't need it?"

Most of the boats I got to work on were boats from outfitters. I don't know if it was because they kept them outside in the sun or what. Some were refinished by said outfitters and had to be totally redone. But most had bubbling and flaking pretty much down to the fabric. As far as adding weight, if your adding a pound over what you've taken off your over doing it. There were a couple Outfitters that should be banned from doing these types of repairs. A boat that is properly stored and taken care of shouldn't need much more than spar varnish or wax. Now if your especially hard on your boat and have to reinforce areas or patch holes where adding fabric (kevlar or fiberglass) then your going to add weight no doubt. But adding more than a pound is a lot. We tend to think more is better... thicker is better... I really think the amount of epoxy over the fabric should be minimal. I've seen boats where epoxy was coated over epoxy. That really doesn't do as much as you'd think. And if not done well it tends to flake off over time anyways. Wables has a good point... if cared for properly there should be little need for epoxy. Like I said, the boats we had to "recoat" were bubbled and flaking down to the fabric. It was a pain to work with because if you sand the Kevlar it just gets fuzzed up. Scraping was the better option but it all was time consuming. And in these cases it was usually bow to stern.

I did West System epoxy re-coats on a number of SR's and as per the directions that I got - one quart would do at least six canoes. I always bought the sample packs from RR because I didn't want so much sitting on the shelf afterwards. I rolled it on (roughly a 2 square foot area at a time) with a 2" foam roller and squeegeed it right away with a nitrile gloved hand, which really helped remove a lot of bubbles. You want it on THIN or it will run and cause a big mess. You can later coat with marine spar. The epoxy will end up much harder than the varnish so it won't take scratches so easily. Re-coat with spar at the end of each year until it needs another epoxy re-coat. Epoxy spread that thin will take longer to cure, but it will cure. Be patient.

My SRQ 17 in the previous posts was coated in Epifanes spar varnish. It was highly recommended in various boating threads when I was researching and I swear by it now. It's a beautiful clear amber finish that's really tough. I apply with a small smooth roller; just be sure that you are thinning is so that it lays on smooth, and be vigilant looking for any running or streaking. You will be shocked at how good the boat will look when you are done. I picked up a Bell Northwoods in carbon kevlar finish last spring on eBay and documented in a previous thread my trials and tribulations regarding the damage the boat had endured. I think there were sixteen spots where the epoxy was damaged. I had to remove the damaged epoxy with a utility knife and then repair with epoxy (from NW Canoe) and wet sand from 80-1500 grit. I got really proficient with the process but the boat still looked really rough. Until I put a coat of spar varnish on in desperation. Instantly the boat came to life and looked a thousand times better. I had the biggest grin on my face. Maybe I'll do a post documenting the process with pics.

quote mjmkjun: "

quote unshavenman: "

quote Royce: "
If you have structural repairs, then epoxy would be needed for that. If you are looking to simply refinish and get the canoe looking new again, marine grade varnish is all that is needed.



I have, in the past, sanded down with 80/120/220. I often skip the 80 and start with 120, then 220. Wipe the canoe down, then with a tack cloth. Use paint tray and 6" white foam roller and roll on varnish. I would not pour varnish or epoxy directly onto canoe. Use a tray. I normally apply 3 coats, with a very light sand in-between coats. No need to remove stickers, unless they are peeling. Varnish right over them.
"

I did the same as above, only I wiped down the canoe with denatured alcohol as opposed to the the tack cloth (I was afraid of leaving tack cloth residue). I used Epifanes varnish and one quart got me through maybe four coats on an SRQ 17 with a light sanding between coats. Be sure to cut the varnish or it won't lay as well. I used a random orbiting sander with no ill effects and it really speeded up the process. I would only use epoxy if I was repairing damage. Varnish provides UV protection that epoxy does not provide. You will be very pleased with the outcome. Good luck! "

WOW! Beautiful finish. "

Thanks!

This is very helpful. I'm ordering smallest quantity of epoxy I can. I do have another project besides the SR Q17 and the Tranquility, plus major repair on the Q17 flotation tanks.

Alan - I enjoyed the varnish thread. Was nice to see that group could achieve no more consensus than this group, but sold on disposable foam rollers and brushes for this - and I'm a die hard oil base paint and clean brushes so they last a lifetime person. Seems almost any spar varnish will work. Not sure if urethanes are as good as the old fashioned spars but they seem to dry harder.

Seems like safe to use RO sander and 220, and think I will clean with alcohol instead of acetone so I don't melt the decals.

At least that's my plan today. And only committed to Raka order.

Both canoes on horses in yard, scrubbed, and wiped down with alcohol. (Good thing it's not Sunday and I'm not in Ely!) I was surprised that the alcohol wipe seemed to remove some finish. Ragged turned pretty solid kevlar color in any case. Maybe wax? Not sure what the factory or outfitters I purchased from might have done.

Raka goofed. Clearly ordered a kit with red and hardener and they shipped two bottles of hardener. Darn. Delayed. Hope they expedite replacement Monday.

There are very few deep gouges. Mostly scratches that disappeared with alcohol - reappeared of course when it dried. Overall better condition than I thought.

Sand today or tomorrow, and another wipe. Then wait for epoxy or go buy at much higher cost at local West Marine. Then spar. Hopefully 2 coats but maybe 3, at least on much older Q17.

So, from purchase on the Gunflint Trail between Christmas and New Years to yesterday. New gunwales and refinished exterior - just 2 coats Epifanes. I have a Q17 to do - some spot epoxy and then I think 3 coats of Epifanes - and I'll probably recoat the Tranquility at the same time. Dry sanded with 220 on a random orbital sander (first) and an orbital - palm - sander between costs. And if you haven't replaced an aluminum gunwale, it was not easy to get that straight sucker onto that curved kevlar hull alone. All in all, I'm pretty happy with a nearly like new Tranquility for well under $900 - and a lot of sweat. I'll try to take some pictures of hull before entering Saturday and after to see how it does - or show how I do.

It looks great! I'm looking forward to seeing the results of the SR Q17 as well.

I did my SR 18.5 last year. It was an old outfitter canoe and I also put 10 trips on it. It was pretty scratched. It also had a crack and quite a bit of fiber was showing on the bottom of the ribs.

I used the West epoxy and some fiberglass for the crack. It worked great and looks great too. I was amazed how good it looked.

I took it this spring and gave it a few new scratches...

my thread