I've always used ratchet straps when tying the canoe down to my F-150. Two straps in the front; one to each of the front tow hooks by the bumpers. Two straps in the back; one to each of the hooks in the corner of the bed. Never had issues with the canoe coming loose or over tightening.

It sounds like a lot of people use the cam/cinch straps and say never to use ratchet straps. I would like to know more about why people stay away from ratchet straps because like I said, I've been using them for years without problems.

I was thinking the fact that a lot of people use cars rather than trucks, and there usually aren't very many good places to hook a ratchet strap on a car compared to a truck might play into the equation.

Add pics of your rig on your vehicle if you have them!

Call Dennis at Norhwest canoe and ask the same Q. He has seen/repaired plenty of canoes that have been wrecked by rachet straps. Bows and sterns pulled down, cracked, bent gunwales. I have seen them at his shop.
I use cam straps only.
CB

quote Cedarboy: "Call Dennis at Norhwest canoe and ask the same Q. He has seen/repaired plenty of canoes that have been wrecked by rachet straps. Bows and sterns pulled down, cracked, bent gunwales. I have seen them at his shop.
I use cam straps only.
CB"

All this plus the potential for the ratcheting mechanism to come open and create slack under load resulting in boats and strap hooks flying around at 60+mph. And, if nothing else cam straps are sooooooo much easier to use and store. I really don't understand why given the choice anyone would choose ratchet straps over cam straps for securing boats.

Edit: I just read the line where you asked for pics. I have a bunch but this one's kinda funny I think.

quote Cedarboy: "Call Dennis at Norhwest canoe and ask the same Q. He has seen/repaired plenty of canoes that have been wrecked by rachet straps. Bows and sterns pulled down, cracked, bent gunwales. I have seen them at his shop.
I use cam straps only.
CB"

So just to be clear, the damage comes from overtightening the ratchet straps and not actually the straps themselves? I could see how if someone didn’t know what they were doing, it would be easy to overtighten and cause damage. Especially if using a cheap set of ratchet straps. A high quality pair of retractable ratchet straps will solve those issues and are so much easier to use. As for the over tightening, I guess as long as the person knows what they are doing, you won’t have issues.

quote jwmiller39: "

quote Cedarboy: "Call Dennis at Norhwest canoe and ask the same Q. He has seen/repaired plenty of canoes that have been wrecked by rachet straps. Bows and sterns pulled down, cracked, bent gunwales. I have seen them at his shop.
I use cam straps only.
CB"

So just to be clear, the damage comes from overtightening the ratchet straps and not actually the straps themselves? I could see how if someone didn’t know what they were doing, it would be easy to overtighten and cause damage. Especially if using a cheap set of ratchet straps. A high quality pair of retractable ratchet straps will solve those issues and are so much easier to use. As for the over tightening, I guess as long as the person knows what they are doing, you won’t have issues."

To each his own, but having used both I can't see how anyone would consider a ratchet strap easier to use than a cam strap. Two cam straps and two safety ropes tied in a trucker's hitch is quick, easy and secure.......and cheap.

To each his own, but having used both I can't see how anyone would consider a ratchet strap easier to use than a cam strap. Two cam straps and two safety ropes tied in a trucker's hitch is quick, easy and secure.......and cheap. "

I'm talking about a retractable ratchet strap... Much different than a standard ratchet strap. Way easier to use. If you ever trailer an ATV, you'll find that retractable ratchet straps are the only way to go.

quote jwmiller39: "

quote Cedarboy: "Call Dennis at Norhwest canoe and ask the same Q. He has seen/repaired plenty of canoes that have been wrecked by rachet straps. Bows and sterns pulled down, cracked, bent gunwales. I have seen them at his shop.
I use cam straps only.
CB"

So just to be clear, the damage comes from overtightening the ratchet straps and not actually the straps themselves? I could see how if someone didn’t know what they were doing, it would be easy to overtighten and cause damage. Especially if using a cheap set of ratchet straps. A high quality pair of retractable ratchet straps will solve those issues and are so much easier to use. As for the over tightening, I guess as long as the person knows what they are doing, you won’t have issues."

Yes

quote jwmiller39: "

To each his own, but having used both I can't see how anyone would consider a ratchet strap easier to use than a cam strap. Two cam straps and two safety ropes tied in a trucker's hitch is quick, easy and secure.......and cheap. "

I'm talking about a retractable ratchet strap... Much different than a standard ratchet strap. Way easier to use. If you ever trailer an ATV, you'll find that retractable ratchet straps are the only way to go."

If I ever buy a canoe built like and as heavy as an ATV, just shoot me because I've lost my mind for sure.

I'm sure they can be used without damaging anything, and please use them if you have and like them, but the way I toss the plain old cam strap over the canoe on top of the car would be bound to damage the car let alone the canoe.

quote jwmiller39: "

To each his own, but having used both I can't see how anyone would consider a ratchet strap easier to use than a cam strap. Two cam straps and two safety ropes tied in a trucker's hitch is quick, easy and secure.......and cheap. "

I'm talking about a retractable ratchet strap... Much different than a standard ratchet strap. Way easier to use. If you ever trailer an ATV, you'll find that retractable ratchet straps are the only way to go."

Fair enough, but I thought we were talking about canoes, not ATVs. You wanted to know why most of us don't like ratchet straps for securing canoes and you got several responses with valid and well documented reasons. If you want to continue to use ratchet straps that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to convince you otherwise; just answering the question you asked. If you don't like the answers that's okay. :)

I have the best cam straps in the whole wide world. I place one in front and one at the rear of truck bed racks and they don't move or loosen a bit during the trip from southcentral Ohio to Sawbill Campground. Not in 8 years of going to and fro.
A perfect composite of cotton & polyester that I purchased at a kayaking outfitter in town. Owner passed and the business is closed for good now.

I'd never use a ratchet strap. Even one click too much too often could mean a shortened lifespan for the boat, and obviously many clicks too far could mean a dramatically shortened lifespan. Also, ratchet straps have hooks on the ends as do many common cam straps. Screw that. I have a nice set of Yakima cam straps that don't have hooks--they're just a cam and a strap--which means no need to hook hooks to themselves or anything else. The cam is also surrounded by rubber so that it can't bang into the canoe or car and cause damage. I've never seen a ratchet strap with any measures taken for protecting anything that they ratchet might be pressing, rubbing, or banging into.

I use Thule cross bars on my Jeep, and I would do exactly the same on a car. Straps just go around the bars (or in my case, through my load stops cuz I use those as well). No need to hook anything; no need to run straps though the inside of the car.

I use nothing on the back of the canoe, and I use a simple rope/cord though the front for lateral stability.


Basically, I do it exactly like this. LINK

quote mschi772: "Basically, I do it exactly like this. LINK "

+1 on the method linked to by mschi772.

I used ratchet straps when I first started, and now use the cam buckle straps. Quick, easy, gets the strap right next to the canoe. Could never find a decent place to hook the large hooks of the ratchet straps either.

I do however use a ratcheting Rope strap for the front. I use that along with the hood loops, which makes that part quick and easy as well.

mchsi772,

Appreciate the LINK on how to properly atttach a canoe to a vehicle. I am good on all counts but I am so poor at knot tying and securing the canoe to my hood tie straps. I get er done ... but I can certainly do better.

One thing I do that the Souris River LINK did not show, is using rope to secure the stern of my canoe to the rear of my truck. I am not sure it is really necessary but I feel better about getting all sections of my canoe secure including the rear.

To each his own.

quote DeuceCoop: "Edit: I just read the line where you asked for pics. I have a bunch but this one's kinda funny I think.
"

LOL..you should be in the market for a canoe trailer!

quote mschi772: Basically, I do it exactly like this. LINK "

this is hilarious! canadians have a great wit!

quote Mocha: "

quote mschi772: Basically, I do it exactly like this. LINK "

this is hilarious! canadians have a great wit!"

That's Joe from Red Rock in Ely. He may be Canadian, but he's been a Minnesotan as long as I've known about him.

Decades ago I too used ratchet straps because that was what I had. But then I bought some cam straps. Easier, lighter, you don't have to go that little extra to tighten, easier to adjust later and less likely to NEED adjusting. You can get padded buckles (Like the Yakima ones) and throw them over the vehicle quickly and easily without worrying about dents (Handy when you drive a full sized truck).

Here's some illustrations of our tying down. We tie front, and belly straps and rear for long trips and/or long boats. I attach the front ties even to my truck because you end up with less rope or strap (I usually prefer rope on the front ties) and will get less "Play" in the wind and it won't rub your paint. If you attach straps in front, give them a few twists so they don't "Whine" and "Sing" to you.

Another thing I will say that people don't think about is SLOW DOWN when you have canoes on top, especially if driving small cars and SUVs. That's all well and good to drive 80-90 mph if everyone around you are perfect drivers and no hazards were to appear. But that is not real life! That load will try to roll you over if you have to make sudden maneuvers.

On the first pic, I typically do the rear tie down to the hitch area, but I was too lazy to get a longer strap out of the truck that day and used a short one to the rack.

Ratchet straps, too easy to crank them too tight and damage the boat. As some have said it's not the straps themselves, it's the ease (the lever in physics terms) of cranking it too tight. Cam straps, you can overtighten but it's harder to do in my opinion. For me I'd never use ratchet straps, cam straps are way to easy use, tighten, tie, untie. They also typically have a lower profile for wind noise but now we're splitting hairs....

I toss the ends of the straps through the rear door, with twists and a drip loop. Seems simpler than tieing to thwarts.

Again, just as in mschi772's link, even the same gear (straps, bars, and canoe carriers) - only difference is I use the Thule bow/stern lines that have the ratchet blocks on one end of them.

I don't know why you would take a chance with the ratchet straps. Careful or not, one more click and the damage is done. This morning I seen an Old Town that someone put the hurt on it. The bottom had to have been dented down about five inches.

quote Mocha: "

quote DeuceCoop: "Edit: I just read the line where you asked for pics. I have a bunch but this one's kinda funny I think.
"

LOL..you should be in the market for a canoe trailer!
"

Ha! Trailer???? That's what straps are for! Those boats actually came from different places on different vehicles. We set shuttle with one vehicle then loaded all the boats on another, thereby consolidating four boats and four guys into one beat up old Suburban with doors that only open from the outside. What could possibly go wrong? I do have a trailer for the raft, but I can put Little Deuce's and my solo canoes on my rack with room for another boat or two. I really don't know what we did before cam straps.

Speaking of which:

We use ratchet straps on our canoes we haul. I have never had a problem with them. I use them all the time and I'm used to them. I actually dislike the cam straps with a passion. Just don't crank them down and you will be fine. If you tighten them so hard you can play Dixie on the straps then you don't understand them.

quote ozarkpaddler: "Decades ago I too used ratchet straps because that was what I had. But then I bought some cam straps. Easier, lighter, you don't have to go that little extra to tighten, easier to adjust later and less likely to NEED adjusting. You can get padded buckles (Like the Yakima ones) and throw them over the vehicle quickly and easily without worrying about dents (Handy when you drive a full sized truck).


Here's some illustrations of our tying down. We tie front, and belly straps and rear for long trips and/or long boats. I attach the front ties even to my truck because you end up with less rope or strap (I usually prefer rope on the front ties) and will get less "Play" in the wind and it won't rub your paint. If you attach straps in front, give them a few twists so they don't "Whine" and "Sing" to you.


Another thing I will say that people don't think about is SLOW DOWN when you have canoes on top, especially if driving small cars and SUVs. That's all well and good to drive 80-90 mph if everyone around you are perfect drivers and no hazards were to appear. But that is not real life! That load will try to roll you over if you have to make sudden maneuvers.


On the first pic, I typically do the rear tie down to the hitch area, but I was too lazy to get a longer strap out of the truck that day and used a short one to the rack.


Amen to slowing down... I have taken two canoes on top of the suburban from the Midwest to Idaho and have hit winds where I could not keep my hat on. The suburban was rockin and rollin and I have to stop to retighten things.... I always have two lines in the front going to each corner of the hood to keep the sideways motion down...especially when there is a semi in front of me, They really help
Occasionally see these little cars with two kayaks on top where on or both is setting on edge...That has to interesting when there is a crosswind.

I can't find it on their search engine but on canoecountry.com someone had arrived to the bwca to find a canoe missing off their trailer. Thye figured that the back strap had loosened up and the thing just slid off...don't know if they ever found it . after reading that I add one extra bungee cords to the back strap on the trailer....just in case.

dr bob






"

Always use ratchet straps and have never had a problem. They don't need to ever be over tightened if you put them in the right spots.

Ratchet straps are perfectly fine to use as long as you know what you're doing.

Well, I'll chime in one more time, even though I'm not going to convert anyone who's convinced ratchet straps are preferable and won't listen to reason.

I used ratchets for about a decade and never harmed a canoe. I also use them for tying down hay bales for transport. They're perfect for that job. But, the nature of the beast is the ratchet goes a little past, then, "Clicks" and stays, turning back a little. Also, due to the winding around of the strap around the ratchet mechanism means it will periodically loosen a bit as will the extra movement because the ratchet mechanism is bigger and bulkier than a cam mechanism. It will, loosen, period, as sure as you can see a reflection in a mirror. Maybe too much? Maybe all will be well? But, you will probably have to tighten it occasionally and there's always that possibility one more "Ratchet" damages the boat.

I can use a piece of rope, a finger, or another inanimate object to make a measurement when I'm working on my canoes. OR, I can use the tape measure because it's the better tool. My choice, your choice. But the cam strap or rope is the better tool than the ratchet straps for carrying canoes.

I sometimes even worry about getting my cam straps too tight. In fact if I plan to leave the canoe cartop over an extended period of time (for example I went paddling Monday and plan to go again Wednesday but don't want the hassle of unloading the boat and storing it in the garage) I will slightly loosen the belly straps and the bow & stern ropes. I'm concerned with expansion or contraction of the hull making things a bit too tight or too loose.

And I always remember to re-secure everything before driving again.

First kevlar canoe I bought was back in 03 from that goofball at Redrock. He threw in a set of cam straps, and that is all I have used since. Never had a worry about them being to tight, and I have never had a problem with slippage.

I mostly use rope and truckers hitches because its less apt to damage vehicle or watercraft.........but having said that I recently tied down my Expedition canoe via RETRACTABLE ratchet straps. Very nice product and the first time I have used a retractable ratchet strap. Wow, impressive device indeed and fits nicely with my "No Hassles" philosophy. I placed welders gloves underneath where the ratcheting device contacts my boat.

My cross bars have foam pool noodles attached so I can ratchet the strap and have some flexibility with how snug to get things. Yup one crank to tight can sure crack a boat and I would be hesitant to ratchet down to something without a bit of flex (i.e. the foam).

A good. Another innie vs outtie subject.

I use ratchet straps,2, over the belly and ropes with truckers knots on front and back. Nothing has to be too tight as I have 4/5 solid points of load control. Even in windy conditions everything stays where it should. Of coyself restraint is important with ratchets,after all it is kind of fun to hear Dixie.

I used to use cam straps, but they always came loose, moved to ratchet straps. Last ten years I've been using rubber bungee straps, 4 in front, 2 or 3 in the back and tie down the thwart to the cross member. Probably put on 10,000 miles of interstate driving like this.

Have seen a number of canoes damaged by ratchet straps. Besides, I'm a little slow and can never figure out how to get them started. Always use cam straps over the hull and ropes on the bow. Rarely anything on the stern. I figure if there's an incident that causes to canoe to come off to the front, I've got a bigger problem than just the canoe coming off. Never have had the straps loosen up during transport. Don't trust a bungee at all, never use them for a tie down.

Yup I would never trust a bungee as a tie down.

Ratchet straps can be a pain to work with. Not so hard to get them started but can sometimes be a pain to get them to release. All ratchet straps are not created equal.

I will likely never use any ratchet type strap again (in smaller sizes) unless it is of the retractable variety. I am super impressed with these. Press the tab and feed out the length you desire. Then engage and tighten...........there is no excess strap, no feeding or deciding which way is "up" etc. and of course all of those actions are compounded in difficulty whilst on a ladder. With the retractable all of these complications are subdued...........bada-bing!

This summer will be my 12th trip back to wis. and then to the BW for a canoe trip. By the time I get back home I will be pushing 6000 miles. I have used ratchet straps in all that time to tie down the canoe to the top of the camper. One time , after a rain storm I had to tighten one strap. Other than that they have worked fine. However the two canoes I had, were not kevlar. This year I have an older kevlar canoe. With so many folks here recommending not using ratchet straps I think I will try cam straps. The one thing I am a little concerned about is the way cam straps are made. When cinched up tight there is allot of pressure (metal to cloth) on a very small part of the strap. In as many miles as I put on, my concern is with the strap wearing through and breaking. Have any of you had any signs of wear on the straps?

I am surprised by the reports of the cam straps loosening. In probably 10 trips at 1100 miles round trip, never an issue for the cam straps anchoring canoe to roof top rack. I did happen to buy them from Piragis, so maybe better quality than some. I have some big box ones I use for clamping in the shop and they are noticeably less robust. No wear what so ever.

MHS67,
I can detect no (zero) wear or abrasions where the metal cam and nylon strap contact each other. I've used these same straps on an almost weekly basis for three years.

"

How do you get the canoe up and down from that slide in camper? Two people with two ladders?

Also, nice looking canoe what make and model is it?

quote rdgbwca: "

"

How do you get the canoe up and down from that slide in camper? Two people with two ladders?


Also, nice looking canoe what make and model is it?"

Putting the canoe on the camper is not really that hard. I stand the canoe on the stern and lean it on the back of the camper. Then I get on the roof and pull it up.
The canoe is made by the Fletcher Canoes out of Atikokan Canada. I've had it for about 10 years now and on 4 BW trips. Really a well made canoe. When I picked it up, we got a tour of their shop, A great family owned operation. The model is, Fletcher's fancy.

billconner and ObiWenonahKenobi, thanks for the cam strap info. I will try them this year.

I have a pair of NRS cam straps. Have had them for about 9 years and have never had them loosen up. They show no signs of wear where the cam holds the strap. They are used 2-3 times a month during the season. Bought a second pair as backups but have never used them.

quote mschi772: "I'd never use a ratchet strap. Even one click too much too often could mean a shortened lifespan for the boat, and obviously many clicks too far could mean a dramatically shortened lifespan. Also, ratchet straps have hooks on the ends as do many common cam straps. Screw that. I have a nice set of Yakima cam straps that don't have hooks--they're just a cam and a strap--which means no need to hook hooks to themselves or anything else. The cam is also surrounded by rubber so that it can't bang into the canoe or car and cause damage. I've never seen a ratchet strap with any measures taken for protecting anything that they ratchet might be pressing, rubbing, or banging into.


I use Thule cross bars on my Jeep, and I would do exactly the same on a car. Straps just go around the bars (or in my case, through my load stops cuz I use those as well). No need to hook anything; no need to run straps though the inside of the car.


I use nothing on the back of the canoe, and I use a simple rope/cord though the front for lateral stability.



Basically, I do it exactly like this. LINK "

That's the way I strap my canoe but with one major difference.

I have a Subaru Outback. I attach the cross bars but before I strap the canoe down, I place kayak foam pads between the cross bars and the gunwale (four spots). Then when I tighten the straps, the foam pads, being compressed, act as heavy-duty springs that keep the straps tight, the canoe stable and also reduces damage on the gunwale. I never attach a rope to the bow or stern of the canoe. The two straps and kayak pads keep the canoe from wiggling at all.

Terry