Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Quetico Forum
      What does "through the Entry Point" mean?     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

Buffy
distinguished member (257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 07:42AM
I apologize for asking this question, because I know this issue has been discussed before, but I can't find any of the postings.
The Quetico Parks website says, "Travel parties may only enter the Quetico on the entry date and through the Entry Point specified on the permit."
Last night I read on this site about folks being fined for taking a different route. So ...
If we travel to the far side of the lake named on our permit, cross a portage, stand in the second lake, and then turn around and go back where we started, have we traveled "through"? Or do we have to camp on a lake beyond the Entry Point lake?
 
Reply    Reply with Quote    Print Top Bottom Previous Next
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(1307)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 08:41AM
You just need to enter at the entry point for which you pulled a permit. For example, you can't pull a Cirrus permit(Beaverhouse EP) and enter at Sue falls even though both lead into Cirrus. You can go anywhere you want after a proper entry.
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(1307)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 08:59AM
You can even exit the park at a different EP if you choose.
Buffy
distinguished member (257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 09:01AM
We'll be coming through Prairie Portage, though, so depending on the route, Sarah (the entry point) is a good 15-plus miles northwest from there and about five miles west of where I'd really like to go. That's why I'm asking about "through." We could easily take a day trip (not breaking camp) and go over to Sarah and back. Or do we need to redo our whole route?
06/06/2017 09:08AM
I spoke with the park rangers at Prairie Portage in 2012 about this issue. The park expects that the named entry point lake will be on your travel route. It is expected (but not stated) that you will get to the entry point lake within a couple of days. In other words, the entry point lake is on the front end of your trip rather than at the end. Whether you travel to it or through it is your choice.

The conversation centered around the subject of people base camping on Basswood Lake (North Bay) with an Agnes entry point permit.
Buffy
distinguished member (257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 09:28AM
That's helpful. Thanks!
billconner
distinguished member(6732)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/06/2017 10:39AM
quote AmarilloJim: "You just need to enter at the entry point for which you pulled a permit. For example, you can't pull a Cirrus permit(Beaverhouse EP) and enter at Sue falls even though both lead into Cirrus. You can go anywhere you want after a proper entry."

You're saying that you can't enter at Lerome Lake with a no. 31 Cirrus Permit? That seems contrary to what I've been told. I agree with Ausable, that you need to be heading towards the entry point on you permit and pass through it. I assumed being in any part of the lake meets the criteria. I consider Beaverhouse (and PP, Cache Bay, LLC, etc.) to be access points, not entry points, and where there are ranger stations. Maybe this deserves another call to the office.

Ausable - on the Basswood/North Bay base camp issue - did you conclude that the Agnes permit was the right one? I went once with intent to base on North Bay with a Sarah Permit and the ranger at PP said that was OK but asked if I would switch to an Agness to leave the Sarah for someone else that might be going further. I assume just so many more Agnes permits make them less in demand.

PS - it is a little confusing that you enter the BWCA at entry points but in the Quetico entry points are actually destinations after entering the park, and several hours so.
06/06/2017 11:02AM
quote billconner: "Ausable - on the Basswood/North Bay base camp issue - did you conclude that the Agnes permit was the right one? I went once with intent to base on North Bay with a Sarah Permit and the ranger at PP said that was OK but asked if I would switch to an Agness to leave the Sarah for someone else that might be going further. I assume just so many more Agnes permits make them less in demand.

At that time they didn't want us base camping on North Bay with an Agnes permit. They wanted people to move around rather than using North Bay as a base camp because that area gets a lot of traffic, people need that area to camp overnight on the way to other lakes, and some of the camp sites were getting abused.

I'm not surprised that the answer you received was different; I assume that the rangers are trying to be flexible and the answer may depend on who is at the station, the current traffic, etc. Agnes does have a large number of permits relative to Sarah.
billconner
distinguished member(6732)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/06/2017 12:57PM
It was in 2008.
AmarilloJim
distinguished member(1307)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 12:59PM
quote billconner: "quote AmarilloJim: "You just need to enter at the entry point for which you pulled a permit. For example, you can't pull a Cirrus permit(Beaverhouse EP) and enter at Sue falls even though both lead into Cirrus. You can go anywhere you want after a proper entry."


You're saying that you can't enter at Lerome Lake with a no. 31 Cirrus Permit? "

That is correct. Their web site states that you are to access Cirrus(no. 31) by paddling through Beaverhouse.
A1t2o
distinguished member(569)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2017 02:47PM
Think of the entry points as gates. You have a pass to enter through a certain gate on a certain date. Where you go once you are in, how long you stay and where you leave are your business. Only who can enter and when is controlled.

I notice that this is for Quetico rather than the BW so there might be slightly different rules on length of stay, but everything else should be the same.
06/06/2017 11:27PM
I have seen people fined in Quetico for wrong entry point. Some one had an Agnes permit and decided to head up through North Bay to Sarah first then out through Agnes. I don't know what the fine was but they weren't happy :)

I was told you have to head towards your entry point and be making progress towards it.

I don't know how they can can get you most of the time unless you make it really obvious. Such a as I remember someone on here getting run down in Cache Bay by the ranger in a motor boat because they had a falls chain entry heading to knife the first day or the example I gave above.

T
06/07/2017 06:44AM
quote Ausable: "I spoke with the park rangers at Prairie Portage in 2012 about this issue. The park expects that the named entry point lake will be on your travel route. It is expected (but not stated) that you will get to the entry point lake within a couple of days. In other words, the entry point lake is on the front end of your trip rather than at the end. Whether you travel to it or through it is your choice.


The conversation centered around the subject of people base camping on Basswood Lake (North Bay) with an Agnes entry point permit."


Thanks, you said that much better than me :) that's what I've been told as well and apparently why the group I met was fined for wrong entry point. Checked with my wife she said the group had a $150 fine.

T
Ho Ho
distinguished member(2368)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2017 09:29PM
quote Buffy: "We'll be coming through Prairie Portage, though, so depending on the route, Sarah (the entry point) is a good 15-plus miles northwest from there and about five miles west of where I'd really like to go. That's why I'm asking about "through." We could easily take a day trip (not breaking camp) and go over to Sarah and back. Or do we need to redo our whole route?"

The question I have is where do you really want to go? From your description, I'd say Kahshahpiwi. If you want to go to Kahsh without going through Sarah first, you need a Kahshahpiwi permit. Nowadays, permits are not that hard to get, so why not change to the one you need? (Of course, if you can only start on a particular day, and want a particular permit, it may not exist, but it's a lot easier to get the one you want now than it was 10 years ago.)

Someone also asked about going to the entry point, then immediately turning around, like touching home. Depending on what you are doing, this may not be permissible. Say you have a Carp permit - you can't paddle to Carp, then turn around and go back to PP and up to Kahshahpiwi. What you can do is continue on from Carp through the Man Chain and the Falls Chain and through Kawnipi to Kahsh - a much longer trip. Basically, they don't want people bouncing near the edges of the park but want them distributed into the interior.

Anyway, I think the rangers have a very definite idea of what's allowed, and the information that's publicly available is not always clear. Most of the time I think you know what's permitted, but if you have a doubt, just call park headquarters and tell them the route you want to take and ask what EP you need. They are actually pretty nice. :)
marsonite
distinguished member(2163)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/08/2017 07:22AM
One thing I've been curious about is how they deal with base campers. I've met people who set up a camp on say Sunday or Burke or even Bayley Bay and daytrip from there. If you camp on Burke, you could be going to Agnes, Sarah, Kahsh, etc. Wonder what their permit says?
GraniteCliffs
distinguished member(1638)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/11/2017 08:24PM
Funny this just came up. I came out early this am at Prairie. Three of us went up together and each of us had a separate permit since we would paddle and camp individually all but our last night. The guy with an Agnes permit was asked his route by Jason. He said he would simply be base camping on Sunday. Nope, Jason (the ranger) said that is not allowed. He said an Agnes permit required an entry physically on Agnes. It was news to us even though we have been through Prairie on dozens and dozens of trips over the years, although we always did long distance trips so likely paid no attention.
I understand the desire to distribute traffic throughout the park. The number of base camping parties on North Bay was noticeable this past week. But if the park is going to require a party to hit Agnes, Kash or Sarah in order to use any of the lakes between those entry points and Prairie it would not seem to further their stated goal of increasing use of the park. Some folks simply can't or do not want to do that type of distance but still want to use the Park.
If that is indeed the rule perhaps some consideration should be given to a North Bay or Sunday Lake only type of permit.
06/11/2017 08:37PM
Sagagonagons is kind of like North Bay. Last year in 9 days, over 1/2 the camps we saw were within a mile of Silver Falls. Different strokes for different folks, I guess, but I can't imagine paying that kind of money to camp 3 miles into the park.
 
Reply    Reply with Quote    Print Top Bottom Previous Next