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mastertangler
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06/22/2017 10:00AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
On a new lake? Or not getting the results you desire? Trolling is one of the best ways to find fish and explore new water.

My Dad and I spent the last 2 days on water that we had fished for 30 years......Lake St Clair in Michigan. We had caught our no- fail bait of creek chubs and fully expected to get our usual stellar catch of nice smallies. But the wind had other ideas and upon arriving at our "spot" I quickly seen that the wind was building quickly and we didn't even let our lines out. Another 30 minutes of battling headwinds put us in an area where we could at least fish. No dice.......no bites for several hours.

The wind was still honking and we had at least 4 miles back to the dock. We could do little else than trolling speed so I set the lines and my Dad ran the boat. Long story short we had thought the fish weren't biting but au contraire we got on them and made short work of them including a 20.5".

The next day we were back and slammed them and my Dad caught his all time personal best of 21.5".

Trolling........an excellent way to turn your fishing trip around. Think they are not biting? Maybe, but maybe not. You just might not be in the right spot. Fishing is not always to patient. I am not a patient fisherman. If I am not catching them I am trying a different spot or a different presentation.
 
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06/22/2017 11:03AM  
As an added bonus, a canoe is almost always moving at a trolling speed.
 
dele
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06/22/2017 11:27AM  
Any tips on trolling effectively from a canoe? I always want to do it but every time I start it ends up seeming like it's more trouble than it's worth. If I focus on paddling I invariably end up snagged, and if I focus on minding my rod and bait I end up steering the canoe ineffectively and making my paddling partner frustrated. I'm usually in the stern and I just find it really awkward to manage the rod while paddling. Hard to make sure I'm at the proper depth, bait has proper action, and to manage snags all while using both hands to paddle.
 
treehorn
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06/22/2017 11:40AM  
quote dele: "Any tips on trolling effectively from a canoe? I always want to do it but every time I start it ends up seeming like it's more trouble than it's worth. If I focus on paddling I invariably end up snagged, and if I focus on minding my rod and bait I end up steering the canoe ineffectively and making my paddling partner frustrated. I'm usually in the stern and I just find it really awkward to manage the rod while paddling. Hard to make sure I'm at the proper depth, bait has proper action, and to manage snags all while using both hands to paddle."


This x a million. I'm right there with you brother.
 
QueticoMike
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06/22/2017 12:32PM  
Not exactly trolling, but I like to throw out a Zulu or RaZor out behind the canoe while I slow paddle around the bow partner to work a shoreline. The lure never gets snagged and you are always fishing even if you are just guiding someone along a shoreline. Every now and then the pole will double over.
 
Canoe Dude
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06/22/2017 01:18PM  
quote dele: "Any tips on trolling effectively from a canoe? I always want to do it but every time I start it ends up seeming like it's more trouble than it's worth. If I focus on paddling I invariably end up snagged, and if I focus on minding my rod and bait I end up steering the canoe ineffectively and making my paddling partner frustrated. I'm usually in the stern and I just find it really awkward to manage the rod while paddling. Hard to make sure I'm at the proper depth, bait has proper action, and to manage snags all while using both hands to paddle."


Rod holders work pretty good to get your rod out of the way and keep them secure. There are a lot of people on here that prefer to do the leg lock thing (butt of rod behind your heel of opposite side). I like to have the ability to move my legs about myself, so I prefer the rod holder option. I used to use a simple carabiner attached to my belt loop that I would lock onto my rod (just above the reel) and have the rod dangle out the back (while paddling from the stern). That seemed to work OK too. Now that I have gone to rod holders, would not have it any other way.



 
Mnpat
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06/22/2017 01:39PM  
I catch a lot of smallmouth trolling marabou jigs, Ned rigs and tubes. Definitely effective and covers water quickly.
 
Bdubguy
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06/22/2017 03:23PM  
dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle. It's helpful to use a rod holder but not necessary. Leg lock worked for me for many years. MT is a big fan of the leg lock. I'm sure he'll tell you don't bother with a rod holder :) If you don't have electronics to guide you, I typically followed the shore line and stayed off to where I could not see bottom anymore. Depending on water clarity, that was 8-12 ft of water or so. Plus your partner can cast to shore.
 
bassnet
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06/22/2017 04:21PM  
A few tips on trolling:

Know the lake. You know where you are going(lakes, that is) months before you get there. Order up the maps, study... look for contour changes, flats, feeder streams. Don't just go cold.

Know your trolling lures. Some troll jigs, cranks. We troll only two lures. We know the depth they will attain with 50,75,100 feet of line out. Limit the lures to two... a medium depth and a deep runner. If you think you need to troll deeper than 22-24 feet, the technical difficulty goes up exponentially. A 3/16(1/4)oz Hot-N-Tot will go 14 feet with 100 ft of 8 lb test, 10-12 ft deep with 50-60 feet out. A SR9 Shad Rap will go 20 ft with 100 feet out.

Trolling is a tool. When you catch a fish, go back over it with a jig. Remember the area... go back over it at the same, different time...fish was there, active, for SOME reason. Short rod long rod, braided vs. mono, rod holder or lap.... you will figure out what works for you. Know your tools, know the area... get those maps early so you can start "fishing" early. Find a medium, and a deep crank that you KNOW their running depth(so you can repeat the depth).
 
Bumstead
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06/23/2017 07:25AM  
So far, my trolling efforts have produced only northern pike. I typically troll a gold husky jerk and have had others with me trolling floating rapalas. We tend to hang a little closer to shore during the day when traveling, although I've picked up a northern or two in the 'middle' of lakes. Maybe the walleye are more apt to strike a SR7 or SR9 shad rap and I need to be over deeper water.

Holding the reel end of the rod under one leg with knee lifted high and the other end going across my other hip seems to get the rod tip at least level (would be better to be slightly angled down toward water?) and angled toward back of the boat, keeping it out of the way of my paddle strokes. Pike seem to hook themselves when trolling, so I don't worry about grabbing it for a hookset. When retrieving the fish, even the smaller pike feel like monsters....until the forward progress on the boat has slowed/stopped :)
 
The Great Outdoors
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06/23/2017 08:07AM  
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)
 
Mad_Angler
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06/23/2017 08:53AM  
I troll a lot. Here are some tips...

If you a trolling for lake trout, look for deep water and troll something that runs deep like a deep taildancer. that lure will run about 20-30 feet deep. But... you will also get a lot of snags as you pass over shallow water. I always use a depth finder and try to avoid shallow water. Otherwise, i slow way down or reel my lure in.

For lake trout, the ideal trolling speed is 1.5 mph. Typical canoe speed is about 3.5 mph. I have caught some fish at the higher speed. And if you are just trolling while traveling, those high speed fish are just bonus fish. If you are specifically just trolling, try to slow down to 1.5 mph.

If you are just covering ground, it is better to throw a husky jerk or original rapala. That runs much shallower and is less likely to snag on the bottom. I caught my biggest BW pike (39") trolling a firetiger huskyjerk.
 
Mad_Angler
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06/23/2017 09:27AM  
quote mastertangler: "...The wind was still honking and we had at least 4 miles back to the dock. We could do little else than trolling speed so I set the lines and my Dad ran the boat. Long story short we had thought the fish weren't biting but au contraire we got on them and made short work of them including a 20.5".

...
"


MT... What were you trolling to find the fish?
How fast were you trolling?
 
mastertangler
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06/23/2017 10:42AM  
Mad Angler I had put back two floating diving type lures. One was a Shadow Rap and was MegaBass. Water was shallow, a huge flat of sorts averaging about 8 ft.

Yup it's easy to troll around and not catch anything. On the other hand you can toss something back and get that surprise fish which provides the all important clue. My Dad and I had trolled for about an hour before a good smallie hit. Right away I suggested we continue drifting through the area and whap, whap, whap........we had found them.

If your trying to make tracks, traveling as it were, then trolling can be bothersome. I like lures which don't require much attention if trolling while traveling. Toss out a Whopper Plopper on braid with the rod angled high into the air to keep the line mostly out of the water. It churns away on top and will catch Northern and smallies.

If your prefer diving type lures like crank baits and rapalas ditch the belly hook and upsize the rear hook by one size. You still might wedge your diving lip into the rocks but not nearly as often and releasing fish quickly is greatly enhanced. Plus only one hook on the portage trail is better.

But that is while traveling.........intentionally trolling is a bit more complicated but still easy to grasp if you make a decision to implement a strategy and stick to it. I prefer live bait to "catch fish" but often it is not the best way to learn a lake and "find" fish.

The first thing you must decide on is your target species. Then correspondingly you must determine what depth they are likely to be at. That is largely dependent on water temps as well as localized conditions such as water clarity, barametric pressure, wave and wind etc. But for the sake of argument I typically find the larger walleyes on Basswood in August from 25 to 30ft of water. I also catch a fair amount of good sized northern in the 33" to 36" class right along with the walleye (oddly enough I find the bigger pike slightly shallower particularly in the late afternoon but I digress).

So I have established a target species and surmised their probable depth given the time of year. I want to present my offering within 3 ft of the bottom so I must choose lures which will accomplish my desire. Walleye tend to gravitate toward banana shaped crank baits and fortunately there are quite a few which will achieve these depths. If you are fishing earlier in the year you would generally fish shallower and must choose lures which again reach to that all important strike zone of within 3 ft of bottom. A Shad Rap for example would be a good choice for getting down around 12 ft.

So, what else? You need a depth finder and a rod holder. Don't let the wanna be trollers tell you to stick the rod under your leg. That is literally a pain in the posterior and a very poor substitute for a real rod holder. Not only are the hook setting physics bad the rod then gets in the way of paddling. A rod holder also enables you to observe more accurately what your lure is doing. Much better.

Trolling, if done correctly, will greatly improve your catch in 2 ways. Firstly, there are the fish you will catch while trolling. And many times, for me at least, that may be the majority of my fish on a given trip, but it also has the huge added benefit of providing clues. Particularly if you have a depth finder. On a new lake the first thing I do is spend a day trolling while making mental notes of what I am seeing and what I am catching. Then the next day go back to especially promising spots with live bait and flesh it out.

Trolling for pike and smallmouth are much the same.......get your offering near the bottom and you will get results.

Lastly, if you are still not connecting you are probably trolling to slow. Unless the water is cold I am usually trying to get reaction bites. I give fish precious little time to decide wether or not to strike. My rod usually will be bent double and I will be going at a brisk pace. Catch me if you can is my motto and bigger fish can be provoked into a chase mode when something goes flying by maybe even bumping them on the nose (your near bottom remember?). The fish gets ticked at the audacity of this intrusion and says "oh yea, I'll show you" and then WHACK! While trolling fast with today's modern black nickel hooks a hook up is assured so be certain that your drag isn't set to tightly........your not going to "pull" a 5lb walleye very far on 8lb line before the line parts.

So, think about it...........with a cast your probably maintaining contact with the bottom (the usual fish zone) maybe 50% of the time. While trolling your on or near the strike zone probably 75% to 90% of the time. Plus your covering water, more water covered more chance of coming across fish. Paddle briskly but quietly and you will be rewarded. Lastly, stay with it, fish aren't everywhere, even in canoe country.
 
QueticoMike
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06/23/2017 12:15PM  
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"


This sort of sounds like TGO is trolling......hahaha

Probably best served to just use live bait and drift.
 
QueticoMike
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06/23/2017 12:18PM  
I never used the leg lock for holding my rod while trolling. I just sit the rod butt on the floor and stick my foot on it. Works fine for me. I don't troll too often, I can typically find fish in the usual hang outs.

 
Guest Paddler
  
06/23/2017 03:08PM  
For trolling I like a reel a baitrunner reel. It has two drags as soon as you start reeling the bait drag clicks off. I have the drag set just hard enough that the line doss not go out while trolling. That allows a fish to take the line and give me time to set my paddle down and pick up the rod. An easy to adjust drag works too.
 
06/23/2017 04:13PM  
TGO ; did you "Catch the Drift" ? ;)

I paddle stern and drift/troll out the back while tying to keep the nose along a shelf ridge drop. Usually trying to parallel a shore.
Sometimes after tending sock or maneuvering and watching my bow partner limit out , I'm ready to switch. Then once in a great while your pole will bend big time and suck you in again! even though it is often a pike.
We usually get impatient to paddle to a destination and end up not trolling much.
What little we do troll up there is usually a purple or gold tail d.......==.OH! Excuse me. Never mind.... TGO May be lurking . I hang my head in shame. :) .oth
 
mastertangler
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06/23/2017 04:40PM  
quote : "For trolling I like a reel a baitrunner reel. It has two drags as soon as you start reeling the bait drag clicks off. I have the drag set just hard enough that the line doss not go out while trolling. That allows a fish to take the line and give me time to set my paddle down and pick up the rod. An easy to adjust drag works too. "


I would have to strongly disagree with this unless, as the name suggests, you are trolling with live bait. I have oft used bait runners drifting or trolling with chubs and suckers and the bait runner mode works to perfection.

But with lures you want a hook up upon the strike and that means as little "give" as possible with your set up. When using mono I usually have my rod angled back towards the lure to absorb any lack of tension which might occur.

I am sympathetic towards Quetico Mike and TGO when it comes to "catching"fish. But they have established (think experience) methods by which they are successful. They can quickly evaluate water and determine where to place their offerings. But to the rest of us "mere mortals" much or all of the water looks good. The truth is polar opposite however and much of the water is basically dead and holds few fish.

So, as the title of the thread implies, troll to find fish. And, you might just learn to enjoy it as much as I do. Paddling around, seeing the sights, mentally interacting with the continuous variety of variables which impact precision trolling.........lure diving depth, amount of line out, diameter of line, keeping my lure in the "strike zone" changing weather conditions etc.

Another observation..........there is no need to react quickly to a hooked fish while trolling. Quickly grabbing the rod and either throwing slack into the line or jerking on an already hooked fish does only bad things for you. Simply put the fish is most likely securely hooked and the forward momentum of your canoe will assure it stays hooked. Grab a Cliff Bar and get a swig of water while your rod is content sitting in the rod holder fish in tow. Naturally I'm kidding but you get my point.....the fish is already hooked and you need only slowly and steadily reel it in. Do not jerk the rod, you only remove hooks which are already set or enlarge the holes the hooks have made insuring a unanticipated release (professional release;-)
 
Bdubguy
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06/23/2017 08:45PM  
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"


Ouch TGO... Maybe if I could get a leech from you that's worth a hoot I wouldn't have to troll so much. Hyuk hyuk hyuk...

I often have my younger girls with me. Less likely to be wearing rapala jewelry trolling than casting. Plus we do catch fish TGO!
 
The Great Outdoors
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06/24/2017 07:35AM  
quote Bdubguy: "
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"



Ouch TGO... Maybe if I could get a leech from you that's worth a hoot I wouldn't have to troll so much. Hyuk hyuk hyuk...


I often have my younger girls with me. Less likely to be wearing rapala jewelry trolling than casting. Plus we do catch fish TGO!"

Ah c'mon John, you know Rock Bass don't count!!! :)
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
 
06/24/2017 10:32AM  
quote mastertangler: ".... Don't let the wanna be trollers tell you to stick the rod under your leg. That is literally a pain in the posterior and a very poor substitute for a real rod holder. Not only are the hook setting physics bad the rod then gets in the way of paddling. A rod holder also enables you to observe more accurately what your lure is doing."

MT, this seems to me to be more of your opinion than fact. I personally use the rod under the leg approach and have an experience that is 180 degrees opposite of what you suggest. I have improved sense of what my lure is doing since the rod is in constant contact with my leg through very thin fabric. I can immediately tell when something has changed. I have great success with hook sets and rarely miss a hit. The rod doesn't inhibit my paddling whatsoever, and I don't find anything uncomfortable about it. In fact, for me a rod holder gets in the way and "disconnects" me completely from the best part of trolling - feeling that initial hit.

For me, I'd rather not make fishing something akin to rocket science. It just isn't that difficult to catch fish in the wilderness areas we are fishing.
 
06/24/2017 10:56AM  
Many of the technical details are different with a kayak, like where and how the rod gets secured to the boat. But a lot of the considerations are the same, and mastertangler's observations on trolling are exactly the same things I would advise after miles and miles of kayak trolling.

I don't think I could add anything to his comments except maybe (and it may not apply in BWCA waters) the trick of varying your speed -- especially slowing down. When I'm trolling a spoon in Alaska for trout, or a jointed diver for sierra in tropical waters, I watch very carefully for a bite when I stop paddling. Both of these species seem inclined to follow a trolled lure, and then whack it when it slows down. Of course, that leads to some missed strikes -- mastertangler is quite right that you should let the boat keep moving forward to make your hookup nice and solid.
 
mastertangler
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06/24/2017 01:01PM  
Hoaf
Despite my strong convictions I am actually in the camp of liberty and tolerance when it comes to most things which aren't illegal, immoral or unethical. Hey, if you like putting the rod under your leg or putting your foot on it that's fine and dandy.

I have not been shy, however, about my perspectives concerning serious trolling and the use of the right tools for the job.......namely a good depth finder and a good rod holder.......rods, reels, lines and lures are adaptive.

Luckee
Excellent points about fish following lures and then striking when something different happens. This is a bit of a miscue with my trolling strategy. I do incorporate S turns via following depth contours but I probably should slow down a bit more often. That certainly provokes strikes while casting.
 
Bdubguy
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06/24/2017 05:45PM  
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"




Ouch TGO... Maybe if I could get a leech from you that's worth a hoot I wouldn't have to troll so much. Hyuk hyuk hyuk...



I often have my younger girls with me. Less likely to be wearing rapala jewelry trolling than casting. Plus we do catch fish TGO!"

Ah c'mon John, you know Rock Bass don't count!!! :)
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!"


Sheeesh Jim, kind of surprised you're throwing a native species like the spunky rock bass under the bus. Pretty soon you'll be signing the praises of smallies! Hyuk hyuk hyuk!
 
06/24/2017 06:38PM  
Warmouth Shellcracker. Redeye Bream Bluegills Crappie Perch .Cornmeal salt should count1 That TGO is 'a hard cat to clean after' ! :). But I was gonna ask about BackTrolling.
Isn't that when you come around a point to wind and just missed a few strokes while you dug in the thwart bag a second and you bowpartner hooks one out in the chop, and then your diver was under you instead of way behind you? Then it takes 5 minutes to get back in front of it to MAYBE in snag it. That is what I first thought of when "BackTrolling" is heard or read.
But just how is it done on purpose and properly. Is it hard to do in canoe with a sock?
 
mastertangler
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06/25/2017 08:05AM  
Backtrolling........that brings back memories and smug smirk of self satisfaction.

We were up at lake Minnitaki fish camp (Sioux Lookout, Ontario) which was our usual week long August fishing trip for several years. The local Canadians would all backtroll, their motors in reverse to go as slow as possible as they pulled their crawlers and leeches.

We had been speed trolling Bomber long "A"s and we would fly past them rods bent tightly and our boat throwing a sizable wake. We had gained a bit of notoriety with our catches and in the evening there would be a few folk waiting at the dock to see what we had caught.

I will never forget the absolute look of incredulity as one of the locals asked me if we were "trolling". He was actually stuttering and could barely ask the question (we really moved when speed trolling and threw a sizable wake). The proof of our success was in our cooler and after explaining the method in some detail I fully expected him to emulate our unorthodox strategy........but the next day we waved as he went about back trolling and inching along and we flew by.
 
QueticoMike
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06/25/2017 01:32PM  
That reminds me of a buddy who was in a rental boat on Lake Okeechobee, he had that motor going wide open ( can't remember the size of the motor, guessing 25hp ) and he had his rod in the other hand with an original Rapala trolling at full speed. I have never seen anyone trolling at that speed and I am pretty sure he was just goofing around. We were all drinking and laughing at him as he went flying past us, but sure enough he ended up hooking into the biggest largemouth that day at full speed while trolling.
 
Savage Voyageur
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06/25/2017 04:31PM  
I just got back from Ontario fishing in a 14' boat with a 9 horse motor. I back trolled on three new lakes. Limited out before 10 AM every day on Pike and Walleye. I was using chubs and rainbow minnows. It has always been an effective way to boat fish.

In the BWCA fishing out of a canoe I use rapalas when I troll to locate fish then switch to a slip bobber with a leeches.

Trolling speed is very important. If your motor is too big you will be putting it in and out of gear to keep the speed down. My GPS said we were trolling at .8-1.0 mph. That was just perfect with the lite bite that was on.
 
Bdubguy
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06/27/2017 09:42AM  
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"




Ouch TGO... Maybe if I could get a leech from you that's worth a hoot I wouldn't have to troll so much. Hyuk hyuk hyuk...



I often have my younger girls with me. Less likely to be wearing rapala jewelry trolling than casting. Plus we do catch fish TGO!"

Ah c'mon John, you know Rock Bass don't count!!! :)
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!"


Jim, I just had to share, MT I hope you don't mind. Was out Sunday evening with my little guy. He catches a rock bass while trolling a rapala....go figure...

 
06/27/2017 01:43PM  
:). Priceless
 
mastertangler
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06/27/2017 04:31PM  
quote Bdubguy: "
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "
quote The Great Outdoors: "
quote Bdubguy: "dele, I troll a lot in the bdub. Toss back a rapala of some sort and paddle."

That's exactly why you don't catch any fish!!! Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!! :)"




Ouch TGO... Maybe if I could get a leech from you that's worth a hoot I wouldn't have to troll so much. Hyuk hyuk hyuk...



I often have my younger girls with me. Less likely to be wearing rapala jewelry trolling than casting. Plus we do catch fish TGO!"

Ah c'mon John, you know Rock Bass don't count!!! :)
Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!!"



Jim, I just had to share, MT I hope you don't mind. Was out Sunday evening with my little guy. He catches a rock bass while trolling a rapala....go figure...


"


Are you kidding? As a waiter at Paradise Inn the wait staff nicknamed me "Uncle Al, the kiddies pal"

The moniker would be considered sort of creepy these days but suffice to say kids are amongst my favorites.
 
The Great Outdoors
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06/28/2017 08:29AM  


John, you know that a Smallie is just a Rock Bass with a GED!! :)
 
Bdubguy
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06/28/2017 10:20AM  
That's pretty funny... :)
 
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