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Fizics
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07/04/2017 12:18PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
So I just got back from Knife, busy area busy time, won't do that area in June again.

One day we're paddling around, it's 1:30pm looking for another site, EVERY SITE was taken for at least three miles close to the Big Knife portage. Anyway, we finally get one, it's an awful site, the site adjacent looks empty as well so we paddle over to it only to find a single green pack no bigger than one of my dry bags, sitting there in the middle of the landing. We get out, look at the site, and wonder if this bag was left. We get our water bottles out and sit on a rock looking at the map when ten minutes later, a canoe comes paddling up, one that we'd seen on another site that we paddled by an hour before, (green canoe that looked out of place with all the LaTourelles boats around) and they come up all smiles saying we're on their site.

My question is this: What is the minimum required to "claim" a site? I felt pretty cheated when that couple came up with their shit-eating grins knowing we were standing on their site. It's a dark thought but had I another chance, I might have hidden his pack far off, set up my tarp, and gotten aggressive when they showed up to retake their site.

If your tent is set up, or a tarp is hanging there, I get that. You invested some time to make this site your own, but there's no way these guys could have done anything more than noticed sites were taken all around them, paddled by and thrown a pack in an effort to "claim" one while they go off for others, I assume to do the same until they get the best site, then they go back and collect all the bags they left.
 
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07/04/2017 12:47PM  
Tough one at times. What is protocol ? I do hope when they came back they had all their gear.

If they are being sincere and only gone for like a half hour while they pick up their stuff from their original site and move on without tying two sites up for very long, I wouldn't have much of a problem.

Tough call sometimes. They could have seen the open site, went back, got their gear and came back to the new site and then it would be taken. Rush back to the old site and maybe somebody grabbed it also.

Also, if it is close to dark, nobody should be tying up that second site for any time at all. The other party would not have time to look anymore.

I think the main body of south Knife is usually very busy. Get off to some of the side lakes even to the north a little more breathing room. Outside of the Kawishiwi river where I go, there has been ample sites. Well maybe Winchell lake was bad.

Lucky enough to be able to canoe during less busy times.
 
07/04/2017 01:34PM  
quote Pinetree: "Lucky enough to be able to canoe during less busy times."

Even so, some people can paddle during different times, but should be able to paddle whenever they want. There should be a sort of flag or issued something with your permit you can post at your campsite... one per group, and that only is what you can reserve with. People will try and get around everything.

On the other hand, I've tossed my stuff on shore and gone fishing before I set up.
 
Grandma L
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07/04/2017 01:56PM  
Hard to "officiate" these situations.

Some years back I came to a site with an empty pack sitting on the shore line. A group of young gals fully camped just across from the "pack" site had put the pack there to "save" it for their parents who were on the far end of the lake packing up their gear to move. This was Lake Three at a busy time and a prime site. Difficult call. Does an empty pack hold a site?

On the other hand, up on Basswood, we put up a tarp, put several packs under it and went out fishing. We came back to a couple of guys who gave us our gear that we had "forgotten" and told us to move on. If you are not sitting on the site, it could be up for grabs.

Then there is the issue of defending your gear and the site. My son has woken up several times, while on solo in busy areas, from an afternoon nap to find people in his camp looking through his gear and starting to opening his tent.

Not the bears you have to look out for.
 
07/04/2017 03:02PM  
I'm guessing they wanted to make sure there was a site available (as you stated, not many were) before they tore down their current camp. Not saying it's right or wrong.
 
airmorse
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07/04/2017 05:49PM  
Ugh...i have heard that the SAK can be busy, but to get the last campsite is not encouraging. We will be up there in three weeks. We always get very early starts so we will see.
 
thistlekicker
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07/04/2017 07:31PM  
Start of rant...

Can we please not even come close to condoning this BS of "claiming sites" by tossing a small piece of equipment ashore and making the rounds to see where the grass is greener?

If you want to claim a site and go do something else (e.g., fish the last half hour of light before sundown), and you fully intend to return, I don't think it's asking too much to spend some time setting up some sort of camp, so it's obvious to other paddlers that someone has invested time and effort and is not merely "campsite sorting". Especially in a busy area, at a busy time of year. And to be doing something like this at 130 in the afternoon? Come on...

Do the right thing. Be an example to others.

End of rant.

 
07/04/2017 08:34PM  
It's why I quit going to the BW and head to Quetico now in September. Not specifically that type of incident but just the volume of other people and not having the ability to camp anywhere you want.



 
RainGearRight
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07/04/2017 09:07PM  
Maybe an unpopular opinion but a pack on shore does not constitute an occupied campsite, in my opinion. If you want to claim a site, set up in it. If you want to check out another, go do it. Don't leave a pack behind. Like others have said, put a bit of effort into it. A tent takes 10 minutes to set up.

Were I in the OP's situation, I would have politely smiled back as I set the left-behind pack in the offending party's canoe and told them to have a great trip.
 
07/04/2017 09:43PM  
A lot of good points...and a frustrating situation.

To the original poster, you had every right to set up camp and send the couple packing. I wouldn't of done it either :) but a single pack onshore doesn't constitute a camp. How you describe the situation they were obviously searching for other sites...if you're searching then you haven't staked a claim to the site yet, plain and simple.

If I found one single pack I'd assume someone left it behind by accident and would probably set up camp. If I had enough time to set up all my gear and someone wandered back "claiming" the site, I don't know what I would do. It would definitely be awkward. If they came back as I was landing I am sure I'd just leave, I didn't come there for confrontation...but I'd put a hex on them for bad karma for sure :)

T
 
ZaraSp00k
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07/05/2017 05:50AM  
quote RainGearRight: " put a bit of effort into it. A tent takes 10 minutes to set. "

Exactly. If I wanted the campsite bad enough, I'd put my tent up and start making something to eat.

I have run across this. Be forceful, they know what they are doing is wrong and nearly everyone will be sheepish once caught in the act.

As for you guys who throw a pack down because you want to go fishing, ten minutes isn't gonna kill you. Put up a freakin' tent!
 
syogod
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07/05/2017 06:03AM  
Personally, I think I would have given them a minute or two in case they were within sight, just fishing, but after that I'd start setting up and set their pack near the landing. About the only way I see as ok to claim a site is by a setup tent. A single pack on shore is simply a forgotten pack in my eye.
 
SevenofNine
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07/05/2017 06:10AM  
I would never just leave a pack on shore. It's too easy for someone to come along and think you might have left it behind by accident and take it with them for good or bad. If I want a site then I take it by setting up my tent or a tarp first if it's raining. Then I start filtering water and so on.
 
MikeinMpls
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07/05/2017 08:08AM  
That would make me angry.

While doing a solo a couple of years ago, I was hoping for the prime site on Lower Pauness (the one with the high rock point). I arrived on the lake very early and found a group of young people camped on the site, but clearly packing up. I asked if I could put my pack down (I only had one) so I could have the site when they left. They OK'd and I did so. I then paddled around the lake for an hour until they were getting in their canoes, then I got to the campsite. There was never a time where it was empty. That's the closest I've come.

I did that once also on a solo on Clove Lake. I arrived at about 7:30 am, from a 5:45 am put in, so that might not have been the nicest thing, but they were up and about and I asked if they were vacating the site. That party allowed me to sit off to the side, away from their campsite, and eat my breakfast until they left. I didn't see them or hear them, nor they me.

Kinda the same, but kinda not.

As for the "reserving" idea, I think the original poster had a case to set up their tent, their tarp, their clothesline and start eating, and "assume" the pack was forgotten. If people come back and say it was their campsite, look at them and say: "it wasn't your campsite. It was your back-up campsite." Then say nothing and let them stew in their own anxiety and the awkwardness. It's a wonderful motivator. Or offer the site across the bay that appeared open. OR, offer to share. They'll either be pissed off or so embarrassed that they'll move on. All in all, they knew what they were doing was wrong.

Mike
 
07/05/2017 08:27AM  
Wow...

Rude behavior does run the gamut with examples from both extremes in this thread. I was shocked to hear that someone had their camp dismantled by someone coming along later and claiming a site, and at the other end the OP's situation with people claiming multiple sites with scraps of gear.

I admire people that can keep their cool in the face of that kind of thoughtlessness. Fortunately the overwhelming majority of people I meet in the BWCA go out of their way to be friendly and helpful.
 
07/05/2017 08:59AM  
quote paddlinjoe: "Wow...

Rude behavior does run the gamut with examples from both extremes in this thread. I was shocked to hear that someone had their camp dismantled by someone coming along later and claiming a site, and at the other end the OP's situation with people claiming multiple sites with scraps of gear.

I admire people that can keep their cool in the face of that kind of thoughtlessness. Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people I meet in the BWCA go out of their way to be friendly and helpful. "

I agree, sounds like extremes at both ends. Dismantling ones camp goes way beyond normal and right.
 
SouthernExposure
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07/05/2017 09:42AM  
The way I see it, if someone drops off a pack at a site with the intention of holding it while they run back and break camp at a different campsite, they are camping at two separate campsites at the same time. That is not allowed. A permitted party is required to camp all together at the same campsite, not spread out over two or more, even for an hour or two.
 
07/05/2017 09:53AM  
I think there needs to be a clearer method of communicating the BWCA etiquette. Maybe have it posted at every EP or including it as a part of the LNT video. If you are going to claim a campsite then go fishing or sightseeing then the camp needs to be set up to a certain extent, like a tent or a tarp. I feel like I would be a bit of a dick to people trying to pull this on me if I came across it. I mean, what are the odds that someone would really claim a site with just one bag then actually just fish?

One bag is something that is presumably left behind, this should be common knowledge. If someone uses it to claim a site while they go looking for better ones then that's illegal because you can not have 2 sites at once. Personally I would probably be in a hurry to set up a tarp and tent before the offending party came back attempting to tell us to leave. If we put in the effort to set up a campsite then it should be ours.
 
thebotanyguy
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07/05/2017 10:02AM  
A person can reserve a campsite simply by placing a pack there? Wow, who knew? This type of thinking opens all types of opportunities for me! I sometimes use a commuter parking lot and catch the bus to work. I can now put a lawn chair in my preferred parking spot and reserve it. There is a café across the street from my office, and there is a particularly comfy chair I like. I will just leave my coffee cup there, and BINGO, reserved for me! Thanks for the heads up guys!
 
07/05/2017 10:50AM  
Some years ago my wife and I were camped on Bald Eagle Lake. We decided we wanted a better site so we packed up everything and paddled to a more desirable site. There was a group packing up so we paddled off and waited, not wanting to bother the group. Ten minutes later, another group pulls right up asks if they can take the site. The group says sure go ahead. The new group proceeds to throw their packs on the site. I'd never seen anything like it before. My wife was not happy to say the least. We ended going back to the same site and setting up again.
 
07/05/2017 11:32AM  
quote egknuti: "Some years ago my wife and I were camped on Bald Eagle Lake. We decided we wanted better site so we packed everything up and paddled to a more desirable site. There was a group packing up so we paddled off and waited not wanting to bother the group. 10 minutes later another group pulls right up asks if they can take the site. The group says sure go ahead. The new group proceeds to throw their packs on the site. I'd never seen anything like it before. My wife was not happy to say the least. We ended going back to the same site and setting up again."

Without being there, it's pretty hard to judge who is right in that situation. If it wasn't obvious that you were looking to get the site, then its hard to say that the other party was in the wrong.

I would obviously not be happy either, but you probably could have paddled up and clarified your intentions at any point there. Even after the second group showed up, you could have mentioned that you were politely waiting for the site. I'm not sure how busy that lake is, but maybe they just thought you were fishing or something. I think that it's better to just voice your intentions and let the current group know that you are waiting just to prevent situations like this.
 
arm2008
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07/05/2017 12:04PM  
quote thebotanyguy:I sometimes use a commuter parking lot and catch the bus to work. I can now put a lawn chair in my preferred parking spot and reserve it. "


City of Boston ordinances do allow an individual who has cleared an on-street parking space of snow during a snow emergency to reserve the parking space for up to 48 hours.

People in urban residential areas try to do this all the time with chairs, cones, garbage cans...Almost always illegal, but you run the chance of bad things happening to your car if you take that space.
 
Porkeater
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07/05/2017 12:24PM  
quote arm2008

City of Boston ordinances do allow an individual who has cleared an on-street parking space of snow during a snow emergency to reserve the parking space for up to 48 hours.


People in urban residential areas try to do this all the time with chairs, cones, garbage cans...Almost always illegal, but you run the chance of bad things happening to your car if you take that space."


In Chicago, this is affectionately known as "Dibs." The penalty for removing the lawn chair, sawhorse, ironing board, etc. used to reserve the spot usually involves some degree of vandalism or placing the removed snow on top of the offending vehicle.

But I digress. ... In the wilderness, this is nonsense. If I were in the OP's shoes, I would have quickly set up a tent and tarp and handed them their "forgotten" pack.
 
Yellowbird
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07/05/2017 03:33PM  
Fizics, I think you would have been well justified to give some resistance, i.e. " . . . so what makes this your site? . . . really you say? . . . how so? . . . did you make up that rule? . . . sounds like your making this up!" Even if you had intended to move on, at least you get to shovel their medicine back on them and see the "grin" disappear.

Were this to happen late in the day and the odds of securing a site diminishes, the nature of the offence increases in my opinion. A party that is still out looking to upgrade ought to assume the risk. I'm never going to assume a pack located in plain view has been left accidentally.

I'd agree the FS should weigh in on this. These actions have been known for years. They can offer some guidelines. Then at least you could argue from a standard.

 
07/05/2017 09:04PM  
I lost a site once while soloing. I had my solo tent set up back in the woods and a few items around the fire pit. I took a day trip and took my small food pack with me. When I returned there was a group of eight in my site completely set up. They said they thought someone forgot a few items and the site was empty. Furthermore, they made it clear that they were sorry, but they were not going to pack up all their gear and move. One of the guys admitted seeing my tent but didn't think anything of it - just one tiny tent. I wound up moving.

It never occurred to them that someone would be out alone with so little gear.

Oh, they had to get my gear to return to me (kitchen area stuff, etc) because they had incorporated it into their stuff, ie found items.
 
07/05/2017 09:11PM  
quote TomT: "It's why I quit going to the BW and head to Quetico now in September. Not specifically that type of incident but just the volume of other people and not having the ability to camp anywhere you want.

Me too - BWCA only in May and October. Otherwise, Canada in the summer. Never encountered boorish behavior in over 10 years of trips in Canada.



"
 
07/05/2017 10:38PM  
quote Bannock: "I lost a site once while soloing. I had my solo tent set up back in the woods and a few items around the fire pit. I took a day trip and took my small food pack with me. When I returned there was a group of eight in my site completely set up. They said they thought someone forgot a few items and the site was empty. Furthermore, they made it clear that they were sorry, but they were not going to pack up all their gear and move. One of the guys admitted seeing my tent but didn't think anything of it - just one tiny tent. I wound up moving.


It never occurred to them that someone would be out alone with so little gear.


Oh, they had to get my gear to return to me (kitchen area stuff, etc) because they had incorporated it into their stuff, ie found items.
"
that's a sad sad story in so many ways ,
 
07/06/2017 05:04AM  
quote thebotanyguy: "A person can reserve a campsite simply by placing a pack there? Wow, who knew? This type of thinking opens all types of opportunities for me! I sometimes use a commuter parking lot and catch the bus to work. I can now put a lawn chair in my preferred parking spot and reserve it. There is a café across the street from my office, and there is a particularly comfy chair I like. I will just leave my coffee cup there, and BINGO, reserved for me! Thanks for the heads up guys!"


My wife is from Boston and apparently the cheap lawn chair is the favorite method of reserving a parking spot. People have. Even known to come to blows.

Really?! Sometimes people just amaze me. And not in a good way.
 
mutz
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07/06/2017 06:38AM  
Have never had a problem with anyone camp site shopping and trying to hold a spot.

The only incident we have ever had with someone coming into our camp was several years ago when two guys pulled in while we were eating lunch. One of them just started walking thru our camp. We asked what he was doing and he said "I'm going to use the crapper". One of our guys stood up and told him it would be a good idea to get back in his canoe and go use the woods.

As they started to paddle away, he told him if you had asked we would have said of course, but don't ever just walk into someone's camp. I can't even imagine what my reaction would be if we came back from fishing and someone was in our camp.
 
07/06/2017 06:43AM  
quote Grandma L: "Hard to "officiate" these situations.

Some years back I came to a site with an empty pack sitting on the shore line. A group of young gals fully camped just across from the "pack" site had put the pack there to "save" it for their parents who were on the far end of the lake packing up their gear to move. This was Lake Three at a busy time and a prime site. Difficult call. Does an empty pack hold a site?

On the other hand, up on Basswood, we put up a tarp, put several packs under it and went out fishing. We came back to a couple of guys who gave us our gear that we had "forgotten" and told us to move on. If you are not sitting on the site, it could be up for grabs.

Then there is the issue of defending your gear and the site. My son has woken up several times, while on solo in busy areas, from an afternoon nap to find people in his camp looking through his gear and starting to opening his tent.
I'm
Not the bears you have to look out for."





I'd have gotten their canoe registrations and such and reported that. Sometimes I wait until later to pitch my tent just so it isn't to hot in there. Especially that time of year. I know I'd never go far anyway if I was going far to fish or anything. Just seems to be a lot of rudeness out there. I'd let them stay as well as stay myself. I'd get up very early and leave a surprise like no canoes left in camp. Haha.
 
Guest Paddler
  
07/06/2017 07:30AM  
When I worked for the USFS we got that question all the time. My response is a single pack does not a camp make. If I, as a field ranger, paddle up to a campsite and have to make the determination of whether a pack has simply been forgotten or whether it constitutes a claimed campsite I can tell you the "so-called" claimed campsite will lose out every time. Be courteous, make it simple for others, and at the very least take the time to set up your tent. Where no written rule is in place common sense must prevail...and there's nothing that says "THIS CAMP IS OCCUPIED" like a tent set up, sleeping bags rolled out, or other gear scattered about.

Having said all that, if I paddled up to a lone pack, knowing there were no other sites nearby, nor time/inclination to paddle on, I'd politely set the pack aside and set up my tent. I'm a nice guy, we can share the spot, the choice is yours, but I'm not moving...and you probably won't leave an unattended pack like that again without thinking twice.
 
07/06/2017 07:47AM  
I can't believe some of these stories!
I usually solo in the shoulder seasons but when I do go in the summer it is with a bunch of scouts so everyone usually gives us a wide birth. LOL
 
07/06/2017 08:15AM  
quote Oisinirish: "
quote thebotanyguy: "A person can reserve a campsite simply by placing a pack there? Wow, who knew? This type of thinking opens all types of opportunities for me! I sometimes use a commuter parking lot and catch the bus to work. I can now put a lawn chair in my preferred parking spot and reserve it. There is a café across the street from my office, and there is a particularly comfy chair I like. I will just leave my coffee cup there, and BINGO, reserved for me! Thanks for the heads up guys!"



My wife is from Boston and apparently the cheap lawn chair is the favorite method of reserving a parking spot. People have. Even known to come to blows.


Really?! Sometimes people just amaze me. And not in a good way. "

In Chitown DIBS works for a shoveled out parking space for a few days in the winter. After the whole street is plowed DIBS is not honored. In BW -- No DIBS allowed.
 
QueticoMike
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07/06/2017 08:25AM  
quote shock: "
quote Bannock: "I lost a site once while soloing. I had my solo tent set up back in the woods and a few items around the fire pit. I took a day trip and took my small food pack with me. When I returned there was a group of eight in my site completely set up. They said they thought someone forgot a few items and the site was empty. Furthermore, they made it clear that they were sorry, but they were not going to pack up all their gear and move. One of the guys admitted seeing my tent but didn't think anything of it - just one tiny tent. I wound up moving.



It never occurred to them that someone would be out alone with so little gear.



Oh, they had to get my gear to return to me (kitchen area stuff, etc) because they had incorporated it into their stuff, ie found items.
"
that's a sad sad story in so many ways ,
"


I would have been pissed. If they would not leave, well let's just say that paybacks are a ........
 
billconner
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07/06/2017 12:44PM  
quote jcavenagh: "
quote Oisinirish: "
quote thebotanyguy: "A person can reserve a campsite simply by placing a pack there? Wow, who knew? This type of thinking opens all types of opportunities for me! I sometimes use a commuter parking lot and catch the bus to work. I can now put a lawn chair in my preferred parking spot and reserve it. There is a café across the street from my office, and there is a particularly comfy chair I like. I will just leave my coffee cup there, and BINGO, reserved for me! Thanks for the heads up guys!"




My wife is from Boston and apparently the cheap lawn chair is the favorite method of reserving a parking spot. People have. Even known to come to blows.



Really?! Sometimes people just amaze me. And not in a good way. "

In Chitown DIBS works for a shoveled out parking space for a few days in the winter. After the whole street is plowed DIBS is not honored. In BW -- No DIBS allowed."


How can they ever plow the street with all those tables and chairs and such in it? It seems the City begs the residents around late March or April to get rid of it.

We don't want nobody that nobody sent.
 
Savage Voyageur
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07/06/2017 01:06PM  
There ought to be something about saving campsites in that lame video I have to watch every year.
 
07/06/2017 01:09PM  
quote billconner: "

In Chitown DIBS works for a shoveled out parking space for a few days in the winter. After the whole street is plowed DIBS is not honored. In BW -- No DIBS allowed."



How can they ever plow the street with all those tables and chairs and such in it? It seems the City begs the residents around late March or April to get rid of it.


We don't want nobody that nobody sent."

Dont worry aboudit...I gotta guy... ;)
 
07/06/2017 01:18PM  
They used to give you a plastic bag to collect garbage in and they wrote your permit number on and asked you to volunteer to make it visible at your campsite.
 
BK1950
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07/06/2017 04:40PM  
While solo tripping about ten years ago, I caught up to a scout group on the Muskeg to Long Island Lake portage. First problem was that they were well over the limit of nine. Obviously multiple groups had joined together. They were clogging the landing due to inefficient portage technique, and taking way too much time. Not wanting to create a scene, I stayed back and let them clear the portage. Then put in behind them.

When I got out on the lake and started catching them, I noticed that three of the older (and obviously faster) scouts had already arrived, dropped packs on three different campsites and were in their canoe directing their followers which campsites to go to. Adults were in the following group, and were obviously complicit.

This was obviously an independent scout group, and not from the Northern Tier High Adventure Base.

I found a decent campsite of my own. Made the decision to let it go, so as not to let the sour taste of this ruin my great trip. Ironically, I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'm the biggest supporter in the world of bringing scouts into the wilderness. But not like this.
 
07/06/2017 06:02PM  
"What pack?"
 
07/06/2017 06:16PM  
quote A1t2o: "
quote egknuti: "Some years ago my wife and I were camped on Bald Eagle Lake. We decided we wanted better site so we packed everything up and paddled to a more desirable site. There was a group packing up so we paddled off and waited not wanting to bother the group. 10 minutes later another group pulls right up asks if they can take the site. The group says sure go ahead. The new group proceeds to throw their packs on the site. I'd never seen anything like it before. My wife was not happy to say the least. We ended going back to the same site and setting up again."

Without being there, it's pretty hard to judge who is right in that situation. If it wasn't obvious that you were looking to get the site, then its hard to say that the other party was in the wrong.

I would obviously not be happy either, but you probably could have paddled up and clarified your intentions at any point there. Even after the second group showed up, you could have mentioned that you were politely waiting for the site. I'm not sure how busy that lake is, but maybe they just thought you were fishing or something. I think that it's better to just voice your intentions and let the current group know that you are waiting just to prevent situations like this."

I don't know who was in the wrong but it was something I'd never seen before. I've learned my lesson: avoid busy lakes or paddle right up and ask.
 
Basspro69
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07/06/2017 10:29PM  
quote thistlekicker: "Start of rant...


Can we please not even come close to condoning this BS of "claiming sites" by tossing a small piece of equipment ashore and making the rounds to see where the grass is greener?

If you want to claim a site and go do something else (e.g., fish the last half hour of light before sundown), and you fully intend to return, I don't think it's asking too much to spend some time setting up some sort of camp, so it's obvious to other paddlers that someone has invested time and effort and is not merely "campsite sorting". Especially in a busy area, at a busy time of year. And to be doing something like this at 130 in the afternoon? Come on...

Do the right thing. Be an example to others.

End of rant. "

Agree 100 percent, nice post !
 
Basspro69
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07/06/2017 10:30PM  
quote Grandma L: "Hard to "officiate" these situations.

On the other hand, up on Basswood, we put up a tarp, put several packs under it and went out fishing. We came back to a couple of guys who gave us our gear that we had "forgotten" and told us to move on. If you are not sitting on the site, it could be up for grabs. "

That would not have gone well with my group !
 
07/07/2017 07:45AM  
quote BK1950: "While solo tripping about ten years ago, I caught up to a scout group on the Muskeg to Long Island Lake portage. First problem was that they were well over the limit of nine. Obviously multiple groups had joined together. They were clogging the landing due to inefficient portage technique, and taking way too much time. Not wanting to create a scene, I stayed back and let them clear the portage. Then put in behind them.

When I got out on the lake and started catching them, I noticed that three of the older (and obviously faster) scouts had already arrived, dropped packs on three different campsites and were in their canoe directing their followers which campsites to go to. Adults were in the following group, and were obviously complicit.

This was obviously an independent scout group, and not from the Northern Tier High Adventure Base.

I found a decent campsite of my own. Made the decision to let it go, so as not to let the sour taste of this ruin my great trip. Ironically, I'm an Eagle Scout, and I'm the biggest supporter in the world of bringing scouts into the wilderness. But not like this. "

We usually have 2 groups and try to do loops in opposite directions. Sometimes will meet half way and have lunch together but that's about it.
 
krick
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07/10/2017 04:23PM  
Just like in sports (like baseball for instance) there is a rule book and it's grown throughout the years to clarify certain situations.
Sounds to me like this situation should be better defined. Call it whatever, but if it's written down, we all have to abide by it.

In my opinion it's simple. Either a person or a tent\hammock etc. should be required to "claim" a site. Put differently, a site can only be claimed if there is a legit camp set up or a person on that site waiting for their gear to arrive.
Throwing a few items down, does not claim a site.
(just my opinion - not official as it seems there is NO "official" definition of what constitutes "ownership" of a site.

I wonder if anyone has asked what a ranger's opinion is on this?
 
07/10/2017 08:27PM  
quote Pinetree: "They used to give you a plastic bag to collect garbage in and they wrote your permit number on and asked you to volunteer to make it visible at your campsite."

I remember that. In 78-81 we got those bags. That would be a good way to "officially " claim a site.
 
LuvMyBell
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07/11/2017 08:55AM  
quote krick: "Just like in sports (like baseball for instance) there is a rule book and it's grown throughout the years to clarify certain situations.
Sounds to me like this situation should be better defined. Call it whatever, but if it's written down, we all have to abide by it.

In my opinion it's simple. Either a person or a tent\hammock etc. should be required to "claim" a site. Put differently, a site can only be claimed if there is a legit camp set up or a person on that site waiting for their gear to arrive. Throwing a few items down, does not claim a site. (Just my opinion - not official as it seems there is NO "official" definition of what constitutes "ownership" of a site.

I wonder if anyone has asked what a ranger's opinion is on this?"

Each of the USFS District offices can be contacted via email. I usually contact the specific district office on questions relating to lakes, portages, campsites within that district. Since this issue is an overall BWCA issue, sending the same email to all of the district offices might be an interesting endeavor.

I suspect you'd get a different response from each as I believe there is no single way to 'claim a campsite'.

I have never arrived at a site, left a pack on shore to claim the site, and gone off on a day trip to fish or explore. We always setup camp, completely, before doing anything else. I have paddled by sites where I've seen gear staged within sight, without seeing any tents or tarps setup. It wouldn't occur to me to land at the site and check things out and don't understand why anyone would do this. Tents could be setup out of sight.

What are the chances someone would accidentally leave a pack or packs behind? Zero in my book. If there is a major piece of gear, sitting in plain sight, that site is occupied. Just my 2 cents.
 
MikeinMpls
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07/11/2017 10:03AM  
"
Each of the USFS District offices can be contacted via email. I usually contact the specific district office on questions relating to lakes, portages, campsites within that district. Since this issue is an overall BWCA issue, sending the same email to all of the district offices might be an interesting endeavor.

I suspect you'd get a different response from each as I believe there is no single way to 'claim a campsite'.

I have never arrived at a site, left a pack on shore to claim the site, and gone off on a day trip to fish or explore. We always setup camp, completely, before doing anything else. I have paddled by sites where I've seen gear staged within sight, without seeing any tents or tarps setup. It wouldn't occur to me to land at the site and check things out and don't understand why anyone would do this. Tents could be setup out of sight.

What are the chances someone would accidentally leave a pack or packs behind? Zero in my book. If there is a major piece of gear, sitting in plain sight, that site is occupied. Just my 2 cents. "

I get your point, though it's extremely bad form and irritating as hell.

Interestingly, I can't see how someone would find a campsite and not put up a tent or a tarp, if for no other reason than for safety. Storms can come up quickly, as we all know, and I would hope that trippers would have enough sense to have some type of shelter to use should the weather go bad. However, I am realizing that "enough sense" isn't in abundance for a lot of BWCA trippers.

Mike
 
mutz
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07/11/2017 10:43AM  
quote Basspro69: "
quote Grandma L: "Hard to "officiate" these situations.

On the other hand, up on Basswood, we put up a tarp, put several packs under it and went out fishing. We came back to a couple of guys who gave us our gear that we had "forgotten" and told us to move on. If you are not sitting on the site, it could be up for grabs. "

That would not have gone well with my group !"

We have a pretty easy going group on our trips, but if this happened to us someone's gear would go swimming and chances are 100 percent it wouldn't have been ours.
 
07/11/2017 11:37AM  
quote mutz: "
quote Basspro69: "
quote Grandma L: "Hard to "officiate" these situations.

On the other hand, up on Basswood, we put up a tarp, put several packs under it and went out fishing. We came back to a couple of guys who gave us our gear that we had "forgotten" and told us to move on. If you are not sitting on the site, it could be up for grabs. "

That would not have gone well with my group !"

We have a pretty easy going group on our trips, but if this happened to us someone's gear would go swimming and chances are 100 percent it wouldn't have been ours."


In Grandma case you had pretty much ALL your gear there. That is your site in my opinion. It was much more than one article. Also if I was the group that came in and claim the site,after seeing it was going to be occupied I would of said Oh I am sorry and leave. No reason for it by that other group.
 
Great Melinko
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07/11/2017 05:08PM  
quote Fizics: "So I just got back from Knife, busy area busy time, won't do that area in June again.

One day we're paddling around, it's 1:30pm looking for another site, EVERY SITE was taken for at least three miles close to the Big Knife portage. Anyway, we finally get one, it's an awful site, the site adjacent looks empty as well so we paddle over to it only to find a single green pack no bigger than one of my dry bags, sitting there in the middle of the landing. We get out, look at the site, and wonder if this bag was left. We get our water bottles out and sit on a rock looking at the map when ten minutes later, a canoe comes paddling up, one that we'd seen on another site that we paddled by an hour before, (green canoe that looked out of place with all the LaTourelles boats around) and they come up all smiles saying we're on their site.

My question is this: What is the minimum required to "claim" a site? I felt pretty cheated when that couple came up with their shit-eating grins knowing we were standing on their site. It's a dark thought but had I another chance, I might have hidden his pack far off, set up my tarp, and gotten aggressive when they showed up to retake their site.

If your tent is set up, or a tarp is hanging there, I get that. You invested some time to make this site your own, but there's no way these guys could have done anything more than noticed sites were taken all around them, paddled by and thrown a pack in an effort to "claim" one while they go off for others, I assume to do the same until they get the best site, then they go back and collect all the bags they left. "

Getting aggressive dosent seem like it would be good idea.. especially in a remote place void of witnesses.
 
LuvMyBell
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07/11/2017 08:38PM  
quote MikeinMpls: ""
Each of the USFS District offices can be contacted via email. I usually contact the specific district office on questions relating to lakes, portages, campsites within that district. Since this issue is an overall BWCA issue, sending the same email to all of the district offices might be an interesting endeavor.

I suspect you'd get a different response from each as I believe there is no single way to 'claim a campsite'.

I have never arrived at a site, left a pack on shore to claim the site, and gone off on a day trip to fish or explore. We always setup camp, completely, before doing anything else. I have paddled by sites where I've seen gear staged within sight, without seeing any tents or tarps setup. It wouldn't occur to me to land at the site and check things out and don't understand why anyone would do this. Tents could be setup out of sight.

What are the chances someone would accidentally leave a pack or packs behind? Zero in my book. If there is a major piece of gear, sitting in plain sight, that site is occupied. Just my 2 cents. "

I get your point, though it's extremely bad form and irritating as hell.

Interestingly, I can't see how someone would find a campsite and not put up a tent or a tarp, if for no other reason than for safety. Storms can come up quickly, as we all know, and I would hope that trippers would have enough sense to have some type of shelter to use should the weather go bad. However, I am realizing that "enough sense" isn't in abundance for a lot of BWCA trippers.

Mike"


I would agree it's bad form if a single pack were left on shore as a means of holding a site while the group went to look for a 'better' site or hold a site while they went back to their previous site to pack up and move. In both these cases, they technically could be taking up two sites, a definite no-no.

But since you have no way of knowing the intentions from seeing a pack, I go back to my point that the chances of someone leaving a substantial piece of gear behind, like a pack, is zero so the assumption is the site is occupied. This and the fact that a tent could be setup out if sight, I think it extremely bad form to enter someone else's camp under any circumstance.

Doing so could lead to bad trouble when the owner(s) of the pack, and maybe an unseen tent, return to camp to find another group has taken over. As others have said, this wouldn't fly with my group, usually 6-9 guys. I know for certain who would be leaving and who would be staying.
 
rdricker
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08/03/2017 02:34AM  
quote BK1950: "This was obviously an independent scout group, and not from the Northern Tier High Adventure Base.
"


I'm glad that you clarified this. I'm ashamed enough that is was a Scout group (although not particularly surprised, knowing what some leaders are like)....but if it had been a Northern Tier crew, I would have been contacting the base, as their Interpreters are trained not to do this.

I've taken two Northern Tier crews into Quetico now and make sure that my Scouts are courteous and follow LNT.

On a side note, we did get questioned once by a ranger in the Smokey's because we had three groups and two were camping in the same camp area (although over 200 yards apart, it was one of the huge camping areas there). He had noticed that two permits had the same address on them. Once we explained to him that we had three groups that were taking three different routes into and back out from the summit...and that we weren't camping together, he was fine with it.
 
08/03/2017 01:30PM  
I am 100% for the civil and polite approach, whatever that may be for the moment.
 
aholmgren
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08/04/2017 12:12PM  
Is there a rule as to one permit per campsite? solo trippers sharing a campsite - is ok? Other than the max number of people and crafts that can be together, is there any rule to keep folks from sharing/invading occupied sites? While it may not go over well/be good etiquette/be appreciated by both parties/be common practice (yet); If a party of 2-4 is set up at a campsite and another party of 2-4 pulls up and reasons while the site is occupied it could also still available as well. ...
 
08/04/2017 12:55PM  
No rules against campsite sharing as long as 9/4 is followed. There have been lots of "group solos" organized and written about on this site. A party less than 9 does not mean another party can just pull up and set up in someone else's camp.
 
08/04/2017 12:59PM  
quote mirth: "No rules against campsite sharing as long as 9/4 is followed. There have been lots of "group solos" organized and written about on this site. A party less than 9 does not mean another party can just pull up and set up in someone else's camp."


Yeah this isn't like the dorms with a communal cooking area. Campsites are personal and it is not in the spirit of the outdoors to setup a spitting distance from someone else. If you are setting up in someone else's campsite that is an invasion of privacy and often considered to be a threatening gesture. That's akin to going into someone else's hotel room and either using their bathroom if you are planning on moving on or sleeping in their spare bed if they have a double queen room.

There is no reservation system or public use campsites. You claim a site by setting up camp there. Once it is yours, it is not anyone else's just like a hotel room. People can ask to use your bathroom if they need to or offer to let others share their campsite if they wish to, but there is no obligation to share and no calling dibs like people do with only a pack. There are grey areas like when one group is leaving and another is waiting, but that's a little different. People just need to use common sense and be respectful.
 
08/05/2017 08:58PM  
A lone pack on shore is not an occupied campsite. It's the typical disrespectful behavior and sense of entitlement shown by some people these days. Everyone thinks they are more important because when they were kids, everyone got the same size trophy for participating.

This reminds me of when someone jumps out of a car in a busy parking lot, crosses a lane or two and stands in the only open parking space while the significant other circles back around to save the spot. It usually causes a nice traffic jam and darn near a fist fight every time I've seen this.

I would have probably just looked for another site if I saw the bag. If the sites were taken and I was out of time to find a site on another lake due to nightfall, I'd start asking around for a corner of a site to quietly share with a promise to move right away in the morning. I think most in this group would probably be up for that, especially if they asked nicely.

But, if I was in the mood for a confrontation then I would have just set up camp and left the pack right where it was. It isn't my bag so I do not have a right to destroy it, launch it into the lake or hold it for ransom...two wrongs don't make a right.

It would be fun though to see what they would do or say when they got back.



 
LuvMyBell
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08/05/2017 09:57PM  
quote Ole496: "A lone pack on shore is not an occupied campsite. It's the typical disrespectful behavior and sense of entitlement shown by some people these days. Everyone thinks they are more important because when they were kids, everyone got the same size trophy for participating.


This reminds me of when someone jumps out of a car in a busy parking lot, crosses a lane or two and stands in the only open parking space while the significant other circles back around to save the spot. It usually causes a nice traffic jam and darn near a fist fight every time I've seen this.


I would have probably just looked for another site if I saw the bag. If the sites were taken and I was out of time to find a site on another lake due to nightfall, I'd start asking around for a corner of a site to quietly share with a promise to move right away in the morning. I think most in this group would probably be up for that, especially if they asked nicely.


But, if I was in the mood for a confrontation then I would have just set up camp and left the pack right where it was. It isn't my bag so I do not have a right to destroy it, launch it into the lake or hold it for ransom...two wrongs don't make a right.


It would be fun though to see what they would do or say when they got back.



"


Some parts if your post I agree with, others not so much.

If paddling past a site and you see a lone pack on shore, how do you know that is all that is there, without landing at the site and exploring?

Frequently, my group sets up hammocks. Often they cannot be seen from shore. Tent pads at many sites cannot be seen from the water.

Talk about invasion of privacy or potential for confrontation. If I came back from fishing or exploring or gathering wood and I found strangers in my campsite, there would probably be hell to pay. I could only assume you were up to no good and looking to steal something.

I completely agree it would be in poor taste to leave a pack to reserve a site or to check if there was a better site down the lake. The question is, how do you know that what is going on?

A pack could be left behind at a portage accidentally, but extremely unlikely at a campsite. Landing at a site with visible gear is a risky proposition at best. Even if it was left there to hold a spot, someone will more than likely be coming back for it. Is a potential confrontation worth that risk? Our group is usually 6-9 guys, fully capable of handling any situation. We wouldn't dream of landing at someone elses site uninvited.


 
08/05/2017 11:00PM  
I have to respectfully disagree with some of the last post. I have seen people leave packs at campsites, heck my first trip we left a pack behind, but remembered before we got too far away. Easier than you think when you are in a group of unfamiliar people. My last trip to Disappointment lake we got the last open site, there was a small pack at the landing. You could see the whole site form the water and nothing else was visible---I figured it was left behind, indeed about an hour later the group came back to retrieve it, they figured it out when they hit the Ahsub portage.

I have also landed a couple of times at occupied sites. You couldn't see anything from the lake, you walk up further and see gear---see it is occupied and leave. No confrontation or problem, it happens. It is obvious when someone is camped at a site, at some point you see a bunch of gear, or a tarp or hammock or tent...1 pack left behind is not a camp.

T
 
kbm
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08/06/2017 07:34AM  
Personally, if I see any equipment I just pass right on by. I don't know whos in there and ANY type of confrontation is not needed on my vacation. My job (in the prison) deals with enough constant arguments, and everyone always jumping to the wrong conclusion. I have absolutely no problem leaving a site that has one pack there and looking for an additional one. we did that last year, past by a site that had only a hammock up and a bag on shore. We went to the next site, and we were blessed that evening with one of the best sunset views I have ever seen up there. no need to be a jerk in the BW, maybe the pack is belonging to a family with 2-3 little ones, and making a trip back to another lake is much harder for them. like I said, im totally ok with moving, sometimes it leads to better things.

on a side note, about 4 yeas ago we were on fourtown and a huge storm cam up, and I watched the first campsite take 2 additional groups into their campsite, because of the weather. it was nice to see people open up and help others when in need, rather than shoo them away.
 
mutz
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08/06/2017 08:22AM  
quote kbm: "Personally, if I see any equipment I just pass right on by. I don't know whos in there and ANY type of confrontation is not needed on my vacation. My job (in the prison) deals with enough constant arguments, and everyone always jumping to the wrong conclusion. I have absolutely no problem leaving a site that has one pack there and looking for an additional one. we did that last year, past by a site that had only a hammock up and a bag on shore. We went to the next site, and we were blessed that evening with one of the best sunset views I have ever seen up there. no need to be a jerk in the BW, maybe the pack is belonging to a family with 2-3 little ones, and making a trip back to another lake is much harder for them. like I said, im totally ok with moving, sometimes it leads to better things.


on a side note, about 4 yeas ago we were on fourtown and a huge storm cam up, and I watched the first campsite take 2 additional groups into their campsite, because of the weather. it was nice to see people open up and help others when in need, rather than shoo them away."



Huge difference between a pack left on shore and a pack on shore with a hammock hanging. The first is someone holding a site or a forgotten pack, the second is someone's camp.
 
08/06/2017 08:46AM  
Agree with Mutz...huge difference between the 2 examples. Any reasonable person that saw a hammock and gear would consider the site occupied. Heck if I just saw a bunch of packs and gear I consider it occupied. A single pack or like in the original post sated just a small bag, it could of been left behind--what other reasonable reason could there be? Either that or they are a selfish jerk trying to save a site and illegally occupying 2 sites. I don't want confrontation either. I would of done what the original poster did and left, unless I had gotten my gear all set up.

To throw another wrinkle into this, there used to be a problem on Kawishiwi Lake. People would enter, then set up a tent on the island camp, leave it unoccupied all week to guarantee they got the site on their way out. I can't remember how the FS busted them but I think other campers started seeing a pattern or saw them set it up and leave and reported it to the FS. Pretty jerky and selfish thing to do.

T
 
08/06/2017 08:50AM  
quote overthehill: " "What pack?""

+1!
 
LuvMyBell
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08/06/2017 09:04AM  
quote mutz: "
quote kbm: "Personally, if I see any equipment I just pass right on by. I don't know whos in there and ANY type of confrontation is not needed on my vacation. My job (in the prison) deals with enough constant arguments, and everyone always jumping to the wrong conclusion. I have absolutely no problem leaving a site that has one pack there and looking for an additional one. we did that last year, past by a site that had only a hammock up and a bag on shore. We went to the next site, and we were blessed that evening with one of the best sunset views I have ever seen up there. no need to be a jerk in the BW, maybe the pack is belonging to a family with 2-3 little ones, and making a trip back to another lake is much harder for them. like I said, im totally ok with moving, sometimes it leads to better things.



on a side note, about 4 yeas ago we were on fourtown and a huge storm cam up, and I watched the first campsite take 2 additional groups into their campsite, because of the weather. it was nice to see people open up and help others when in need, rather than shoo them away."




Huge difference between a pack left on shore and a pack on shore with a hammock hanging. The first is someone holding a site or a forgotten pack, the second is someone's camp."


You obviously missed the main point......

There are numerous campsites within the BWCA that you cannot see the tent pads or hammock hanging trees from the water. The only way to know for sure if someone was setup would be to land and go explore.

You might not think it's a big deal to land at a site you think is only being held with a single pack only to find out you were wrong when you discover a tent or hammock setup out of sight.

Nothing said here is going to change any minds. All I'm saying is you better be absolutely sure how you approach a situation like this. Either way, holding a site with a pack or finding an unseen camp setup, the owner/owners of the pack will return at some point and there will be a confrontation of some kind.



 
kbm
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08/06/2017 09:33AM  
quote LuvMyBell:

You obviously missed the main point......




"


Harsh... :) I guess I was under the understanding that "what constitutes a taking camp site" as being the main point. and my .02 was any man made item would work for me.
 
08/06/2017 12:45PM  
In today's world, in a very remote location anywhere in the BW, pass on by for safety. Being right or not is not the issue here. One bad outcome will change your future forever if weapons get used on you or you use any kind of force yourself.

We stayed a site reserved with a rope on Duncan with a tent in sight. No one came near for a day and a half before it was taken for that night. Then other site improvements were made. Someone either came in and reserved or had someone set up enough to reserve it IMO. Did not go on site, but could see from a distance.
 
ockycamper
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08/06/2017 01:10PM  
"Some parts if your post I agree with, others not so much.

If paddling past a site and you see a lone pack on shore, how do you know that is all that is there, without landing at the site and exploring? "

We have always taken the approach that we check out sites via binoculars before ever landing and walking up the camp site.

If we see any gear. . .we move on. Like others have said, seeing a pack. . .then landing and walking through the site to see if there is any more gear around. . .is a good way to bring on a confrontation.

We have chosen to never go the the BWCA any time but mid September to early October. Never have this problem.

I would vote with those that would move on every time if they see any gear on a site. . .even a pack.
 
mr.barley
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08/06/2017 03:05PM  
If I were to be looking for a site and saw one small pack at the landing I would yell, "anybody home?" maybe a few times. If I didn't get an answer I'd land to see just how "occupied" the site was. If that's all that was there I would check out the site and if it were to my liking I'd set up shop.
 
08/07/2017 08:04AM  
quote mr.barley: "If I were to be looking for a site and saw one small pack at the landing I would yell, "anybody home?" maybe a few times. If I didn't get an answer I'd land to see just how "occupied" the site was. If that's all that was there I would check out the site and if it were to my liking I'd set up shop."


This is probably the best approach. Who would start a confrontation just because someone checked to see if a site was occupied? To say that there would be one is a rather aggressive line of thinking. There's looking for a fight and standing up for yourself. Taking a site that someone else tried to claim with only a pack is standing up for yourself, getting in someone's face for checking to see if your site was indeed occupied is just looking for a fight. Lets not lean too far in either direction either being afraid of everyone in the wilderness or being one of the people that others are afraid of meeting. We can all get along even if we don't agree with each other or even if we disagree on the rules.
 
ockycamper
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08/07/2017 08:21AM  
" Taking a site that someone else tried to claim with only a pack is standing up for yourself,"

It can't be standing up for yourself if it was not your site to begin with. If we see any gear at all. . .our groups move on. It would not be uncommon for someone to hang their hammock back in the trees and have their cooking gear there. Then put a pack visible to the water to let people know the site is taken.

Why not just move on rather then get into the argument of "how much of a set up is needed to claim a site"?
 
08/07/2017 08:44AM  
quote ockycamper: "" Taking a site that someone else tried to claim with only a pack is standing up for yourself,"


It can't be standing up for yourself if it was not your site to begin with. If we see any gear at all. . .our groups move on. It would not be uncommon for someone to hang their hammock back in the trees and have their cooking gear there. Then put a pack visible to the water to let people know the site is taken.


Why not just move on rather then get into the argument of "how much of a set up is needed to claim a site"?"


If other sites are open and perfectly fine sites, then there should be no issue. But if it is a desirable site where the only other sites are really bad or no other sites available in the area then there is an issue. A hammock or tent set up is very different from just a pack. A single pack could be left behind or someone illegally claiming 2 sites at once, anything set up is a claimed site. 1 pack does not claim a site. It can be a red flag though that you should check the area to make sure someone isn't camping there, but that doesn't mean that the last site on the lake can't be a possibility.

The point is, if you are not going to put in any effort to set anything up like hanging a bag where it can be seen, putting up a tarp, or setting up a tent/hammock then you really haven't done anything at all to differentiate from a left behind pack. If you say to move on when you see any gear then where do you draw the line? Does it have to be a pack? How about a trash bag? A paddle or fishing rod? Garbage on the ground? A stack of firewood? All these campsites have had people camp there before so seeing some sign that people have been there at all simply isn't good enough for me. There has to be some evidence of something setup or effort put into it in order to consider the site claimed. 1 pack set on shore is like kids racing for the front seat of the car then the one that's losing calls dibs halfway there. That's not the way it works.
 
ockycamper
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08/07/2017 09:07AM  
good points. We go in September so there are plenty of sites. Our practice has always been to check out a site from the water with binoclars first if needed. If we saw a pack, we would move on unless there was clear evidence from the water that the site was not occupied. We take 2-3 groups up each September. I can tell you they would have a problem with another group coming on to the site and checking it out to see if it was "set up enough".
 
08/07/2017 11:12AM  
To make our presence known when we arrive at a site, we immediately wrap a red pfd high up around a tree at the front of the site and then put up the yellow CCS tarp. My site will never be mistaken as anything other than taken.
 
Camp Site Hawg
Guest Paddler
  
08/07/2017 12:10PM  
quote LuvMyBell: " Our group is usually 6-9 guys, fully capable of handling any situation. We wouldn't dream of landing at someone elses site uninvited.

"


wow, that's some group of nine you got there, in a group of nine there is a lot of equipment, why would you take it all with going fishing? you are in such a rush to fish you'd only leave just one pack? really? nobody has the patience (and some would say sense) to take a few of the packs out which would make the fishing experience more enjoyable and at the same time let people know from far away that the site is occupied

apparently your group of nine is fully capable of everything except setting up camp
 
08/07/2017 02:18PM  
quote Camp Site Hawg: "
quote LuvMyBell: " Our group is usually 6-9 guys, fully capable of handling any situation. We wouldn't dream of landing at someone elses site uninvited.


"



wow, that's some group of nine you got there, in a group of nine there is a lot of equipment, why would you take it all with going fishing? you are in such a rush to fish you'd only leave just one pack? really? nobody has the patience (and some would say sense) to take a few of the packs out which would make the fishing experience more enjoyable and at the same time let people know from far away that the site is occupied


apparently your group of nine is fully capable of everything except setting up camp"


Who are you picking a fight with and over what? The person you quoted was saying that it would be in poor taste to leave a pack to claim a site. If you want to confront them about anything it would have been the fact that they said there would certainly be a confrontation if they say people pulling up to their site after talking about there being 6-9 guys. Granted 6-9 guys should leave clear evidence that the site is occupied, but that doesn't call for confrontation if people check because you can't tell from the lake.

Guest paddlers should be banned from posting in the Listening Point Forum.
 
08/07/2017 03:34PM  
quote kbm: "Personally, if I see any equipment I just pass right on by. I don't know whos in there and ANY type of confrontation is not needed on my vacation. My job (in the prison) deals with enough constant arguments, and everyone always jumping to the wrong conclusion. I have absolutely no problem leaving a site that has one pack there and looking for an additional one. we did that last year, past by a site that had only a hammock up and a bag on shore. We went to the next site, and we were blessed that evening with one of the best sunset views I have ever seen up there. no need to be a jerk in the BW, maybe the pack is belonging to a family with 2-3 little ones, and making a trip back to another lake is much harder for them. like I said, im totally ok with moving, sometimes it leads to better things.


on a side note, about 4 yeas ago we were on fourtown and a huge storm cam up, and I watched the first campsite take 2 additional groups into their campsite, because of the weather. it was nice to see people open up and help others when in need, rather than shoo them away."


+1

 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/07/2017 04:40PM  
If I'm on a lake and someone else arrives, I simply leave. Luckily, it doesn't happen often.
 
LuvMyBell
distinguished member(2470)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 08:55PM  
quote Camp Site Hawg: "
quote LuvMyBell: " Our group is usually 6-9 guys, fully capable of handling any situation. We wouldn't dream of landing at someone elses site uninvited.


"



wow, that's some group of nine you got there, in a group of nine there is a lot of equipment, why would you take it all with going fishing? you are in such a rush to fish you'd only leave just one pack? really? nobody has the patience (and some would say sense) to take a few of the packs out which would make the fishing experience more enjoyable and at the same time let people know from far away that the site is occupied


apparently your group of nine is fully capable of everything except setting up camp"


If you bothered to read my entire post and my prior posts on this thread, you would see that I stated that my group has never just left a pack on shore to claim a site and that further, we always completely setup camp upon arrival at a site before we go fish, gather wood or sightsee.

Just because our group does it this way, doesn't mean it is the right way or the only way. I also stated that I thought it was wrong to leave a pack to reserve a spot, just in case, and go off looking for a better site.

Why do I suspect that you are a member who uses the guest paddler monikor to hide their identity when making confrontational posts.
 
08/07/2017 09:43PM  
So....how's the weather up there?
 
08/08/2017 10:08AM  
 
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