In the last month, there have been four black bear attacks with two fatalities and three hurt in Alaska, Wisconsin and Colorado. Three of the four were confirmed predatory attacks. Just friendly furry forest critters doing what friendly furry forest critters do.

Remember to take all necessary precautions when camping this summer.

Extra mags.?

That is a personal choice I prefer revolvers.
Could depend on how good a shot one is.

For back country carry.

All these attacks only involved one bear each.

I hope a big one attacks my bait September 1st.!!!

And a lot of other hunters also

I met a guy last year who is a retired conservation officer and administrator for WI. We were talking black bears by the cabin we rented from him on the Brule. A guy in our group was concerned about black bears and I was teasing him saying they are more scared of us than we are of them. The DNR guy said that actually he is concerned about the aggressive behavior of black bears. His thoughts were that with modern pressures to preserve bears by not hunting them, instead of correctly managing them with hunting (my 2 cents) , they have lost their fear of humans. I was surprised at how concerned he was about the issue.

quote Kobykat: "I met a guy last year who is a retired conservation officer and administrator for WI. We were talking black bears by the cabin we rented from him on the Brule. A guy in our group was concerned about black bears and I was teasing him saying they are more scared of us than we are of them. The DNR guy said that actually he is concerned about the aggressive behavior of black bears. His thoughts were that with modern pressures to preserve bears by not hunting them, instead of correctly managing them with hunting (my 2 cents) , they have lost their fear of humans. I was surprised at how concerned he was about the issue."

Some of us has been saying that along when one doesn't allow the proper management of large predator. The most aggressive ones are allowed to breed passing on their aggressive traits.


With proper management the most aggressive are taken out of the gene pool faster as they are the ones that show up the soonest.

In the past when a nusense animal showed up around human's the problem was dealt with swiftly.
Now with the over protection those animals are allowed to continue and pass their bad habits along

As can be seen with camp raiding bears in the BWCA instead of being taken care of as soon as they cause trouble. They are allowed to raid many camps often for all summer even for several seasons.
In the mistaken idea of they just might stop doing so by themselves.

Nusense critters should be removed ASAP thus reducing conflicts.

By not doing so is denying the reality of life.

Bears get plenty of hunting pressure--especially in the upper Midwest. Any wild animal can get aggressive, but it's exceedingly rare. I live in a remote area and see black bears regularly--they are pretty much always skittish, although I did have one do a "false charge" at me in the BWCA once (not an uncommon behavior, but un-nerving if you have no experience with bears).

It's always amusing to see how some folks get worked up when they hear about a grizzly bear, mountain lion, or black bear attack (all statistically extremely rare), but don't blink an eye about the number of folks who die in car wrecks while en route to a national park or camping/fishing trip.

Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.

dr bob

quote arctic: "Bears get plenty of hunting pressure--especially in the upper Midwest. Any wild animal can get aggressive, but it's exceedingly rare. I live in a remote area and see black bears regularly--they are pretty much always skittish, although I did have one do a "false charge" at me in the BWCA once (not an uncommon behavior, but un-nerving if you have no experience with bears).


It's always amusing to see how some folks get worked up when they hear about a grizzly bear, mountain lion, or black bear attack (all statistically extremely rare), but don't blink an eye about the number of folks who die in car wrecks while en route to a national park or camping/fishing trip."

Geeze man, what did you do when it "false charged?" I can't even imagine how scared I'd be! The only way to know it's a false charge is after the fact, you're either dead, or just experienced a false charge, only 2 outcomes!

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.


dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol

quote Kobykat: "

quote arctic: "Bears get plenty of hunting pressure--especially in the upper Midwest. Any wild animal can get aggressive, but it's exceedingly rare. I live in a remote area and see black bears regularly--they are pretty much always skittish, although I did have one do a "false charge" at me in the BWCA once (not an uncommon behavior, but un-nerving if you have no experience with bears).



It's always amusing to see how some folks get worked up when they hear about a grizzly bear, mountain lion, or black bear attack (all statistically extremely rare), but don't blink an eye about the number of folks who die in car wrecks while en route to a national park or camping/fishing trip."

Geeze man, what did you do when it "false charged?" I can't even imagine how scared I'd be! The only way to know it's a false charge is after the fact, you're either dead, or just experienced a false charge, only 2 outcomes!"

False charges are kind of common with black bears. Yes, they are un-nerving! Check out the research of bear researcher Lynn Rogers of Ely, MN.

quote Fizics: "I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

Right on. I lived in Glacier for a year, and have encountered polar bears while on canoe trips in the arctic. Pepper spray is your friend. It's only real downfall is if you happen to be spraying UP-wind at the bear LOL!

On the other hand you MIGHT kill that rare, charging black bear with a handgun as you are filling your pants, but you very likely will not survive shooting a grizzly or polar bear with a handgun. You will be dead before it dies.

Fortunately, again, these types of encounters are exceedingly rare, despite what some of the outdoor magazines try to portray to their mostly suburban readers.

I had a black bear "false charge" two of us 45 years ago.
I remember it like it was yesterday.....................scared the heck out of me.
In the middle of the night it had our food pack and eventually, after a protracted back and forth involving paddles, pots and pans, and finally us lifting the canoe upright and in the bears direction it retreated without the pack. It was the first night of our trip so we could ill afford to let him have our food.
Another time, also about 45 years ago, I had was headed across a portage on a solo with a young black lab when I looked up as I portaged the canoe to see a mama bear on one side of the trail and two cubs on the other side. I slowly retreated without incident but it also scared the heck out of me.
I have had several in or around camp since without a problem---and don't worry about them from a safety standpoint.

quote Fizics: "

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.



dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

Don't you have to aim the Bear Spray?

quote Great Melinko: "

quote Fizics: "

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.



dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

Don't you have to aim the Bear Spray?
"

One does not have to aim it as one would with a fire arm but practice is recomended.

quote Great Melinko: "

quote Fizics: "

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.



dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

Don't you have to aim the Bear Spray?
"

Not really. A bullet is small in a gun, bear spray is like aiming a flame thrower or both barrels of a side by side.

quote Fizics: "

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.



dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

>


I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"


I shake my head every time I hear that firearms are not effective against bears.
Or the old B'S that bullets bounce off schulls.
Personally I shot 5 or 6 black bears in the head wit lesser caliber hand guns then the 44 and a couple with a 44 never had a bullet bounce off. I have found hand guns used properly work well for killing and stopping bears.

Feel free to inform us of your personal experiences of failures not some old wife's tales that you just heard about.
Bear spray is better than nothing but when something is seriously going to cause you death or bodily harm a quality firearm is hard to beat.

I would think being proficient with either would be a good idea,whatever your preference.
Most have never sprayed or shot a bear and in my opinion not qualified to say one is better than the other.

quote Chilly: "

quote Great Melinko: "

quote Fizics: "

quote DrBobDerrig: "Bear spray for all our trips.... We stay at Glacier NP every summer and hope to make it to Alaska in August. I just hope my hands aren't shaking too bad if I have to use it..... I also keep it in the tent for 2 legged trouble...just in case. Taking guns through Canada is not an easy thing and I have not used one since scout camp in the early 60's...so that option is out.




dr bob"

I grew up in Missoula and went to Glacier regularly, good on you for using bearspray. I remember meeting an older fella on a hunting trip who was attacked by a grizzly even after shooting it 4 times with a 30-06, it died shortly later but he showed me the scars it gave him before it did. I kinda shake my head every time someone talks about defending themselves against a bear with a gun. Better be a good shot! Even then, we've all heard stories of bear skulls deflecting .44 caliber bullets...on the other hand! Bear spray is nasty shit lol"

Don't you have to aim the Bear Spray?
"

Not really. A bullet is small in a gun, bear spray is like aiming a flame thrower or both barrels of a side by side. "

I've used it on a grizzly once during a fly fishing trip, watched him come down the mountain on the opposite side of the lake and then all lol around this small lake right to me then I used it when he was within 20 feet. It's pretty easy to aim the spray, it's almost like a small fire extinguisher, the liquid is reddish in color and you'll know if you get any on you or on anything else, it'll make your mouth numb and having it on your skin is miserable. It's very similar in burden to poison ivy. I cant imagine how much it must suck to be a bear with fur drenched in this crap (better than getting shot). Anyways, the young guy I sprayed took off with the fear of death in him after a quick spray in his direction, wasn't even sure I directly hit him before he bolted. It was kinda funny, all that effort to meet something he'd wish he never met.

quote Great Melinko: "I would think being proficient with either would be a good idea,whatever your preference.
Most have never sprayed or shot a bear and in my opinion not qualified to say one is better than the other. "

I've shot a gun and used bear spray (not on a bear). Also have had a large bear at night bluff charge. It would take great skill and mostly luck at night to hit/kill a charging black bear with a bullet assuming your hands are not shaking as mine were when a 400 pound black bear is running at you in the black night. Shooting a pistol on a well lite range at non moving targets is easy but that's not what its going to be like. Plus a gun could kill anyone standing/sleeping behind the bear when (not if) you miss.

That math reads that bear spray is safer and easier to aim then a pistol.

."



Geeze man, what did you do when it "false charged?" I can't even imagine how scared I'd be! The only way to know it's a false charge is after the fact, you're either dead, or just experienced a false charge, only 2 outcomes!"



False charges are kind of common with black bears. Yes, they are un-nerving! Check out the research of bear researcher Lynn Rogers of Ely, MN. "
Having experience a couple of false charges and more than that bears turning towards me popping their teeth stomping their feet.

Can be interesting to say the least fortunately for the bears they decided that being other places was more advantage to them then pressing forward.

As I was well prepared to stop such foolishness on their part.

A for Lynn Rogers research what a bunch of BS.

Staying clam and being prepared is the key.

I guess it is time for a full auto machine gun. Not only will it take care of bears and those dolts who only leave a pack on shore to claim a site, but those big ass muskies also better watch out! Daddy is coming, and he is packing heat!!!

I do quite a bit of tripping with my son in law. All I pack for protection is a .22 caliber revolver. When faced with a charging bear, a single shot to my son in laws shin area gives me more than enough time to quickly exit the area.

AwBrown, great line! I was in the BW this last week with my son in law. Wish I could have mentioned this to him in camp.

Had a black bear roaming around my place lately in AK.
Last night my buddy and his 8 year old son came to visit from Denali NP.
They camped out in my yard last night. At 11:30 the bear came to visit them. My buddy heard it grunting next to him on outside his tent, then it sniffed his head.
My buddy punched the bear and the bruin took off crashing through the woods.

We are camping in the canoe system so we will be more on our toes.

quote Chilly: "

quote Great Melinko: "I would think being proficient with either would be a good idea,whatever your preference.
Most have never sprayed or shot a bear and in my opinion not qualified to say one is better than the other. "

I've shot a gun and used bear spray (not on a bear). Also have had a large bear at night bluff charge. It would take great skill and mostly luck at night to hit/kill a charging black bear with a bullet assuming your hands are not shaking as mine were when a 400 pound black bear is running at you in the black night. Shooting a pistol on a well lite range at non moving targets is easy but that's not what its going to be like. Plus a gun could kill anyone standing/sleeping behind the bear when (not if) you miss.


That math reads that bear spray is safer and easier to aim then a pistol. "

My math says proficiency still seems to be the key. If one isn't proficient with one tool that doesn't mean that someone else isn't or something else is better. It's your own choice, I try not to judge others abilities.

quote awbrown: "I do quite a bit of tripping with my son in law. All I pack for protection is a .22 caliber revolver. When faced with a charging bear, a single shot to my son in laws shin area gives me more than enough time to quickly exit the area."

Very funny! Especially for those who seem to think carrying a gun somehow makes them immune to being attacked. Gotta love the macho dudes, I guess. Not.

For bear protection, I carry bear spray and the Tiny Monster flashlight. No one ever suggests a flashlight for protection, but the Tiny Monster is literally blinding. I never turned it on until the last night when I thought, "Let's turn night into day." when I had to pee. Well, even though the flashlight was aimed away from me, it was blinding and I was behind the business end. I turned it off after a couple secs and peed in the dark rather than stumble on a rock or limb. If bear spray is a flame thrower, then the Tiny Monster is fifty flamethrowers.

I have killed 4 black bears in Minnesota during reg. hunting seasons. I have tripped multiple times in the bwca during 3 seasons. Bears are nothing to screw with. Bear spray is a joke. A bullet to the head from a hand gun or rifle is the only way to stop one. Bear spray is only a seasoning for the bear when it eats you. Carry a gun

quote Armored: " I have killed 4 black bears in Minnesota during reg. hunting seasons. I have tripped multiple times in the bwca during 3 seasons. Bears are nothing to screw with. Bear spray is a joke. A bullet to the head from a hand gun or rifle is the only way to stop one. Bear spray is only a seasoning for the bear when it eats you. Carry a gun "

If having a gun helps you deal with your fear more power to you. Personally I'm much more concerned about fearful people with guns than the hazards of wildlife.

I had this mother (and offspring) working the smoker last week. No firearms required- just patience and common sense.

If you do bring a gun for protection against bears and other scary things in the BWCA, please don't shoot yourself in the a$$.

quote It's always amusing to see how some folks get worked up when they hear about a grizzly bear, mountain lion, or black bear attack (all statistically extremely rare), but don't blink an eye about the number of folks who die in car wrecks while en route to a national park or camping/fishing trip."

I was watching a Cliff Jacobson video yesterday and he said exactly that. I know it gives little solace to those who are terrified of bears, but it's true.

Mike

This is from the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game:

"Bear deterrents, including firearms and bear spray, can be helpful but should never be used as an alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters.

Products labeled as bear spray contain capsicum (red pepper extract) and are effective at deterring bears at close range. Bear sprays are designed to propel a mist for 15 -30 feet. If discharged upwind or in a vehicle, they can adversely affect the user. Take appropriate precautions. If you carry bear spray, keep it handy and know how to use it.

If you are inexperienced with a firearm, it can be difficult to successfully deploy in emergency situations. Additionally, a wounded bear can be a greater threat to human safety. A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands."

This pretty much sums up what those of us who actually LIVE in bear country have been saying for years.

quote Armored: " I have killed 4 black bears in Minnesota during reg. hunting seasons. I have tripped multiple times in the bwca during 3 seasons. Bears are nothing to screw with. Bear spray is a joke. A bullet to the head from a hand gun or rifle is the only way to stop one. Bear spray is only a seasoning for the bear when it eats you. Carry a gun "

As a lifelong bear hunter who's harvested numerous bears I feel exactly opposite and carry neither...awareness and common sense do better than just about anything. Furthermore "a bullet to the head" is best reserved for use in private conversations with like-minded individuals, not a public forum. Not criticizing, just saying is all.

quote 2old4U: "

quote Armored: " I have killed 4 black bears in Minnesota during reg. hunting seasons. I have tripped multiple times in the bwca during 3 seasons. Bears are nothing to screw with. Bear spray is a joke. A bullet to the head from a hand gun or rifle is the only way to stop one. Bear spray is only a seasoning for the bear when it eats you. Carry a gun "

As a lifelong bear hunter who's harvested numerous bears I feel exactly opposite and carry neither...awareness and common sense do better than just about anything. Furthermore "a bullet to the head" is best reserved for use in private conversations with like-minded individuals, not a public forum. Not criticizing, just saying is all."

He is talking about shooting a bear in the head to kill it, why is that not ok to say on a public forum? Political correctness is one thing but that in my opinion is overboard.

One would not to up set the people who think that their meat start out wrapped in nice net packages. And just arrive at the store that way

quote arctic: "This is from the Alaska Dept. of Fish and Game:


"Bear deterrents, including firearms and bear spray, can be helpful but should never be used as an alternative to common-sense approaches to bear encounters.


Products labeled as bear spray contain capsicum (red pepper extract) and are effective at deterring bears at close range. Bear sprays are designed to propel a mist for 15 -30 feet. If discharged upwind or in a vehicle, they can adversely affect the user. Take appropriate precautions. If you carry bear spray, keep it handy and know how to use it.


If you are inexperienced with a firearm, it can be difficult to successfully deploy in emergency situations. Additionally, a wounded bear can be a greater threat to human safety. A .300-Magnum rifle or a 12-gauge shotgun with rifled slugs are appropriate weapons if you have to shoot a bear. Heavy handguns such as a .44-Magnum may be inadequate in emergency situations, especially in untrained hands."


This pretty much sums up what those of us who actually LIVE in bear country have been saying for years.


"

Having worked for different government agencies I can tell you that there is a lot of politics in any statement they put out.

They came out with a statement to try and please every one not one that is always correct.

No guns in the Q, so I guess that leaves bear spray or common sense. I prefer the latter. Bear problems more commonly occur in places where they are acclimated to people food. Take precautions with your food and and over half of the battle is won.

Do they allow bear spray in Canada? I had mine confiscated by boarder patrol, but that was probably 15 years ago.

quote riverrunner: ">Feel free to inform us of your personal experiences of failures not some old wife's tales that you just heard about.
Bear spray is better than nothing but when something is seriously going to cause you death or bodily harm a quality firearm is hard to beat.
"

Lol. *shakes head*

quote Kobykat: "Do they allow bear spray in Canada? I had mine confiscated by boarder patrol, but that was probably 15 years ago."

They do. It has to have an image of a bear on the canister. They've always asked me if I have bear spray, but I've never been asked to show it.

quote Kobykat: "Do they allow bear spray in Canada? I had mine confiscated by boarder patrol, but that was probably 15 years ago."

They do. It has to have an image of a bear on the canister. They've always asked me if I have bear spray, but I've never been asked to show it.

Long time lurker, first time poster... bear are attracted to strong smells, like fresh fish and such right? So how does one keep that smell down/away? My first thought is to clean them in someone else's campsite, but karma...

It is not so much the cleaning of the fish that is the problem. Cooking them causes a lot more smell a long with cooking a lot of other things.

Keeping things clean after ward's not allowing camp to become messy.

Always disposed of the left over remains properly is huge.

One of of the two times I had a bear in camp in the BWCA was at a camp that was left a total mess. Within minutes of arrival a 150 to 200 pound bear was trying to get our food.

We chased him off with a few well placed rocks. He turned on us and started buff and puff mashing is teeth together. My partner planted a fist size rock on his shoulder and he went off.

He was about 25 feet way and with in 10 feet of staying permently.

But he made the right choice and left.

The other bear I had close encounter with in the BWCA was a well known camp raiding bear. I shot under Lic. She had been causing trouble all summer by the reports I read.

The first day of bear season she went home with me.
Oh my a well placed 315gr 44mag bullet sent her to the freezer.

Don't hardly think it slowed down to much as it passed all the way through her. So much for bears being bullet proof.

I like bears I live among them every day I see them on the property often I encounter them also. I killed my biggest a 100 yards from my house he weight just over 500lbs.
I have hunted bears in several lower 48 states Canada and Alaska. I have shot them with handguns shotguns and rifles. I have been in on many times that times that number of bear kills.

I have a fair idea what it takes to kill a bear. A well placed bullet that hits vitial areas and destroy,s enough tissue does it every time.

Help! My husband left our #4 Duluth pack on the far east side of Ensign Lake on July 6, 2017 and just realized it tonight. It sounds crazy but he was traveling with 5 teenagers and trying to exit in a storm. We reviewed campsite photos from 7-6-17 and see the pack back behind a tree. Anyone traveling on Ensign and able to check the site for us? We think it is site 1220. We have been taking BWCA trips for 30 years and have never left a pack behind. We are desperate to get it back
Jane Hafner
651-261-0562
Stillwater, MN

Also post your for gotten pack in lost and found

Killing a black bear with a firearm is one thing but a grizzle is certainly something else according to the research and experts that I have studied. Before spending 2 weeks in Glacier solo in the back country I read "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" twice and even after spending close to a decade as a fur trapper and traveling solo in bear country all day for months on end I seriously considered canceling my backpacking trip. The descriptions and events described are eye opening.

Bear attacks are no joke and folk who take them lightly cannot imagine what others have been through regardless statistics. Education is the key and I highly suggest the book as you will come away with a new appreciation of what can (and has) happened but you will also start to understand what makes a bear tick and what you should do to avoid an interaction but also what to do if you should have an interaction.

I am on the Bear Spray side of things and it is proven to deter bears in the 90% range. I cannot conscience shooting a black bear over what is likely to be a bluff charge particularly in typical canoe country unless it is a nuisance bear then I have zero tolerance. The far north is another matter entirely and I would rather have a shotgun with rifled slugs and any black bear bluff charge is a dead bear. The more remote the area the more likely you are to be viewed as potential prey according to the info I have.

As per grizzlies the odds of you placing a shot in a bread pan sized vital area as they are charging at 35MPH is slim. Better to have Bear spray and a 45 handgun strapped to your chest (if you insist on carrying a firearm) so when they get you down you can access it (as per "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance")

MT, my grandfather owned a vintage safari sidearm. As I remember, it had six barrel and each was 50 caliber. They'd all discharge at once to stop a charging rhino or elephant. Of course, he couldn't take it to a firing range unless you want to sprain your wrist, break your arm, dislocate your shoulder, and perhaps cave in your face with your first and only shot.

I'm surprised no one suggested bear poppers. On two occasions, I met two different ATV riders using logging roads in Canada and that's what they both carried. One was a bear guide who was baiting stations and so he didn't want to kill the bears he was attracting, but his bear poppers scared them away.

quote mastertangler: "Killing a black bear with a firearm is one thing but a grizzle is certainly something else according to the research and experts that I have studied. Before spending 2 weeks in Glacier solo in the back country I read "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance" twice and even after spending close to a decade as a fur trapper and traveling solo in bear country all day for months on end I seriously considered canceling my backpacking trip. The descriptions and events described are eye opening.


Bear attacks are no joke and folk who take them lightly cannot imagine what others have been through regardless statistics. Education is the key and I highly suggest the book as you will come away with a new appreciation of what can (and has) happened but you will also start to understand what makes a bear tick and what you should do to avoid an interaction but also what to do if you should have an interaction.


I am on the Bear Spray side of things and it is proven to deter bears in the 90% range. I cannot conscience shooting a black bear over what is likely to be a bl9
uff charge particularly in typical canoe country unless it is a nuisance bear then I have zero tolerance. The far north is another matter entirely and I would rather have a shotgun with rifled slugs and any black bear bluff charge is a dead bear. The more remote the area the more likely you are to be viewed as potential prey according to the info I have.


As per grizzlies the odds of you placing a shot in a bread pan sized vital area as they are charging at 35MPH is slim. Better to have Bear spray and a 45 handgun strapped to your chest (if you insist on carrying a firearm) so when they get you down you can access it (as per "Bear attacks, causes and avoidance") "

There has been several cases in the past 3 or so years where Brown and grizzly bears have been stopped and killed with what one would seem to be rather light for that type of Bear calibers 2 with 9mm luger 2 with 45acp and one with a 10mm.

A properly placed bullet well do the job and has done so many times. There are also several larger caliber handgun saves also.

Feel free to find and post a reference where a handgun was used then a fatality occurred.

As far as spray is concerned one one has to go back a couple of weeks to find a fatal failure.

Most of the incident where spray is successful are harassing used where the bear isn't actually in full attack.

Feel free to post actual attacks and failures of firearms in non hunting defense situations zhowing they failed more then spray.

Bear poppers.........they might work and then again they might not.

When my food got raided while stashed at a site on Sawbill I had placed a battery powered motion alarm within. Move my pack and a fairly loud siren and flashing light went off.

After the bear clipped my buddy food pack it went crashing through the bush towards mine (all you need is to leave ONE Snickers bar out of a ziplock to get their attention). He or she was not subtle but went loudly through the bush. We awaited the inevitable clash of Bruin vs Technology.

The bear hit my pack and the siren went off piercing the still night. There was a 10 second pause and then R-I-P, slash and munch as my nemesis went to work. I later thought, "hmmm, dinner complete with music and a light show". He ate all the oats and candy but put one tiny tooth mark in each of my freeze dried meals and left them alone wisely ascertaining that they were largely inedible.

Fortunately it was our last night and we were 1/2 hour from the truck so no big deal from our perspective other than to help what was obviously a habituated bear who made the rounds, probably nightly.

Black Bear Gnaws on Delta 15s Seakayak in Berg Bay, Alaska

I like turtles.

quote riverrunner
There has been several cases in the past 3 or so years where Brown and grizzly bears have been stopped and killed with what one would seem to be rather light for that type of Bear calibers 2 with 9mm luger 2 with 45acp and one with a 10mm.


A properly placed bullet well do the job and has done so many times. There are also several larger caliber handgun saves also.


Feel free to find and post a reference where a handgun was used then a fatality occurred.


As far as spray is concerned one one has to go back a couple of weeks to find a fatal failure.


Most of the incident where spray is successful are harassing used where the bear isn't actually in full attack.


Feel free to post actual attacks and failures of firearms in non hunting defense situations zhowing they failed more then spray."

You have demonstrated quite conclusively that a firearm is the only form of bear protection you will consider.

Back to bears in the BW, rather than speculating about AK grizzlies...

I'd like to hear some opinions on this:

My thinking is that every group visiting the BWCA should be required to carry a can of bear spray. Furthermore, they should be encouraged to discharge the bear spray on any bear that comes into camp.

This approach would proactively discourage nuisance bear habit forming, and put the 'fear' into bears that they seem to lack. Pots and pans just kick the problem down to the next user. Regular deployment of bear spray on nuisance bears is non-lethal and would result in fewer bears having to be killed by FS.

Other people's mess is a fact of life, and no matter how clean a camp you personally keep, you are at the mercy of the last user. By this logic 'common sense' is not a valid way to avoid encounters with bears.

quote Banksiana: "

quote

."

You have demonstrated quite conclusively that a firearm is the only form of bear protection you will consider."

Totally wrong I have a can of spray handy for the occasions when it would be useful.

I would much rather spray or us other means of scaring a bear away then shooting one as shooting them can cause legal ramifications.

But I well say it again and a again that when some thing is trying to kill you or inflect bodily harm to you a good firearm is a much better choice then spray.

It has been seen time and time again if a bear makes contact with you can expect great bodily harm and it takes just mere seconds to do so. a trip to the ER is thousands of dollars.

Trust spray if you want but I have seen enough failures in both animals and humans not to trust my life to it.

There is a reason when faced with deadly force law enforcement officers don't use spray unless backed up by some means of deadly force if the spray fails.

Bears have many contact cutting and hitting weapons at their disposal. Would you trust spray against a human armed with knifes, clubs or both if they were trying to kill or harm you. Let alone something that is many times as strong as you are and a lot faster.

Just as I would not allow a human to harm me by causing death or great bodily harm. I well not allow some animal to do so either.

Bears are bears they do what bears do no more no less trying to humanize them is a mistake many people make.

I don't think requiring every camper to carry the spray is such a bad idea. You could pick up your "free" can from the Ranger at the start of your trip and drop it off when you're done to be passed along to the next group. No reason why we all have to buy a $45 dollar can of spray when we can all share.

From my experience, I don't think we should just spray every bear that comes into camp. Some bears that may enter camp that haven't had much human contact might be chased off by the usual methods. If the bear won't leave using those time tested methods of deterrence, you either have a very determined bear or one that is used to the commotion and doesn't care. Hunger is a strong emotion in every living creature. Survival is the #1 priority and desperate bears take desperate measures to ensure they survive, we all do. Those bears become problem bears and have been conditioned. As a result, they become increasingly bold, unafraid and often make repeat appearances until the Forest Service takes care of the problem and removes them from the Wilderness.

Humans are partially at fault for being careless with cleanliness and storage of food but it's going to continue to be impossible to stop the careless behavior. It just is. That being said, spraying curious bears might condition them further. If they figure out that the awful burning sensation they received from "US" is only temporary, who is to say they won't just ignore the pain the next time to gain the prize. I'd certainly hate to teach them that the spray isn't so bad after all.

I'm also referring to bears here that want to get fed. Those bears could be deterred with spray and other methods. A predatory bear is an entirely different animal. The spray has been effective out west near Yellowstone and has saved many lives of both humans and bears. It doesn't always work and sometimes there just isn't time to use it. If all else fails, you have to do what you have to do and if a firearm is your last resort, by all means have at it.

I say scare, spray, shoot in that order if you have time. Scare and spray only for loss of personal property, shoot for personal protection if you had no other choice. A firearm should always be a last resort especially in the BWCA. If you injure a bear you'll create a whole new set of problems.

A bluff charge is just a total fake out, it's a warning that the bear is tired of your antics. If a bear starts to snap, woof and paw the ground, you need to stop doing whatever it is you're doing and give the bear some space and fast. If you provoke the bear further and then shoot it, you'll have a lot of explaining to do and most likely you'll face charges for killing the bear. You'll be asked 100 different ways if you tried to disengage, back away, launch a canoe and leave camp, etc. If the bear didn't corner you and wasn't about to tear off a limb, you made a bad choice. Again, firearms are a last resort to protect yourself from injury or death and I whole heartedly support that as would anyone facing a grave situation. You have a right to protect yourself but personal property does not reach the same criteria of importance in court. Good luck

quote ayudell: "Back to bears in the BW, rather than speculating about AK grizzlies...


I'd like to hear some opinions on this:


My thinking is that every group visiting the BWCA should be required to carry a can of bear spray. Furthermore, they should be encouraged to discharge the bear spray on any bear that comes into camp.

This approach would proactively discourage nuisance bear habit forming, and put the 'fear' into bears that they seem to lack. Pots and pans just kick the problem down to the next user. Regular deployment of bear spray on nuisance bears is non-lethal and would result in fewer bears having to be killed by FS.
."

Teaching bears to behave themselves is a great idea bears that come into camps should be totally harassed and made to fear man.

Spray is a good means of harassing bears from camp.

Those that don't learn to fear man should be disposed of ASAP.

So they do not have a chance to pass their bad behavior onto others.

Even though this issue has been beaten to death on multiple past occasions..........
I have been canoeing in the BW and Q for four or five decades, multiple trips a year. Yes, I have had bears in camp and on the trail a number of times. To this point, I have not yet ever had a need to shoot or spray a bear. Nor do I know of anyone that has been killed by a black bear in the BW.
Carry a gun? When I am hunting, of course. In the BW? Not a chance--unless I am hunting. Multiple people carrying handguns in the BW simply make me much more nervous than any black bear. Just sharing my perspective after all these years.
Mandate bear spray? Even a crazier option in my humble opinion. I have enough mandates of how to live my life each and every day.
With that said I will retreat from this never ending and no agreement discussion and promise not to post again on this thread.

Sorry for some because this is a repeat post, and AK based, but it does pertain to the BWCA.

I live in one of the heaviest concentration of Grizzlies in Ak, over 800 are estimated on the Kenai Peninsula, with 3,500 Black Bears. The area is roughly 6-7 million acres, excluding the Harding Ice Field.

Many times while hiking, I keep the bear spray in my hand. The time it takes for one to get Bear Spray out of the holster can be too long according to some of our bear biologists and Game Wardens on the NWR Refuge I work on.

Many of the people I work with have been bluff charged.

One co-worker who was bluff charged by a Griz was out hunting Black Bears in the spring of 2015.
He is the president of the local NRA volunteer organization here on the Kenai Peninsula.
He said that the bear came at him from 90-120 feet away at a full charge before he noticed it.
He said he had his rifle in hand with the muzzle pointing to the ground.
The griz was on him so fast that he did not have time to raise his gun to his shoulder, he only go it half way up.
(This guy is one of our firearms instructors and is our Amour) Gun Mechanic

Fortunately the bear stopped about 30 feet from him, but slid with feet planted on the ground, to within 12-15 feet of him due to the speed that the bruin was running. Once the bear stopped its charge my co-worker could not shoot it because it would not have been a (DLP/Defense of Life and Property.) He did not have a Griz tag only a Black Bear.
He said he had to clean his shorts after that encounter.

I am liscenced bear shooter for the Federal Government, I am required to carry a Remington 870, at times in the field while on duty.
And have received many classes on bear awareness and Safety.

However, from what I know about bears, I choose to only carry bear spray when I am recreating on my own in a non-official capacity.

quote JediMaster: "Long time lurker, first time poster... bear are attracted to strong smells, like fresh fish and such right? So how does one keep that smell down/away? My first thought is to clean them in someone else's campsite, but karma... "

No need to clean fish at some else's site as there are miles upon miles of open shore to do you thing!

Well, shit. I hope I never run into riverrunner anywhere! The dude is way too macho for me, and I have no doubt he would shoot me just to put me in my place as someone who carries bear spray in Glacier. (Note: I am not nor ever have been worried about bears in the BWCA/Quetico. Probably another reason for rr to shoot me!)

In the Gros Ventre Wilderness south of Yellowstone I once ran into a dude who was bowhunting elk, and this guy was carrying a sword.

He said it was for bear protection, because he had heard different things about the effectiveness of both firearms and pepper spray. It looked like one of those medieval replica broadswords, with some bada$$ engraving on the blade and sweet metalwork down the handle (hilt? is it a "hilt"? IDK). I want to say there were even some sort of jewels encrusted, but that may just be my memory embellishing something that occurred years ago.

I talked to him for a few minutes, and tried not to stare at the sword too much.

That guy was the best.

I mention this as just another option for those of you considering various options when it comes to bear protection. You're welcome.

Or the Canadian company that advertises the Bear stick.

A real poor version of a spear.

But when one lives or travel in a country where personnel protection devices are limited one comes up with ideas to try and over come restrictions.

quote Frenchy19: "Well, shit. I hope I never run into riverrunner anywhere! The dude is way too macho for me, and I have no doubt he would shoot me just to put me in my place as someone who carries bear spray in Glacier. (Note: I am not nor ever have been worried about bears in the BWCA/Quetico. Probably another reason for rr to shoot me!)"

We most likely get along just fine talk canoes fishing and have a great time.

In 33 years of working as a law enforcement officer I never shot any one nor in the 50 plus years of using firearms.

It amazes me that the people who talk about using firearms improperly are always those who rally against them the most.

One wonders if the are projecting a lack of personnel control.

quote thistlekicker: "

He said it was for bear protection, because he had heard different things about the effectiveness of both firearms and pepper spray. It looked like one of those medieval replica broadswords, with some bada$$ engraving on the blade and sweet metalwork down the handle (hilt? is it a "hilt"? IDK). I want to say there were even some sort of jewels encrusted, but that may just be my memory embellishing something that occurred years ago.
"

Makes one wonder a full size broadsword weighs many pounds.

One can find many light weight powerful handguns in the two pound and under range some under a pound.

Plus that size of weapon is hard to use when a opponent is on top of you.

Or maybe he just had a medieval fetish.

quote thistlekicker: "In the Gros Ventre Wilderness south of Yellowstone I once ran into a dude who was bowhunting elk, and this guy was carrying a sword.

He said it was for bear protection, because he had heard different things about the effectiveness of both firearms and pepper spray. It looked like one of those medieval replica broadswords, with some bada$$ engraving on the blade and sweet metalwork down the handle (hilt? is it a "hilt"? IDK). I want to say there were even some sort of jewels encrusted, but that may just be my memory embellishing something that occurred years ago.

I talked to him for a few minutes, and tried not to stare at the sword too much.

That guy was the best.

I mention this as just another option for those of you considering various options when it comes to bear protection. You're welcome.



"

A broadsword is okay for blade to claw combat, but I prefer towing a catapult down portage trails. One huge advantage is the number of rocks available for ammo in the Canadian Shield. Poor RiverRunner has to lug all his ammo. Mine is already up there! Plus, a catapulted boulder will stop a bear every time. Every time. I actually don't even have to lug the catapult. I just bring beer and harness some young strong lads to the catapult. They enjoy the challenge and the beer!

quote riverrunner: "

quote Frenchy19: "Well, shit. I hope I never run into riverrunner anywhere! The dude is way too macho for me, and I have no doubt he would shoot me just to put me in my place as someone who carries bear spray in Glacier. (Note: I am not nor ever have been worried about bears in the BWCA/Quetico. Probably another reason for rr to shoot me!)"

We most likely get along just fine talk canoes fishing and have a great time.


In 33 years of working as a law enforcement officer I never shot any one nor in the 50 plus years of using firearms.


It amazes me that the people who talk about using firearms improperly are always those who rally against them the most.


One wonders if the are projecting a lack of personnel control. "

Ah, you have clearly never met Frenchy19. He's a bear. You might have a great time, but he would have a terrible time. Finally, as a bear, he has no personnel to control.

Just a reminder to those who carry bear spray, it's good to know whether you're allergic to it. I found out the hard way that I am violently allergic to capsicum. If you're allergic, spraying it in an enclosed space like a tent with a downwind could be fatal.

quote LilyPond: "Just a reminder to those who carry bear spray, it's good to know whether you're allergic to it. I found out the hard way that I am violently allergic to capsicum. If you're allergic, spraying it in an enclosed space like a tent with a downwind could be fatal."

I read some posts of folk who leave cans of the stuff rolling around in their vehicle....and of course you can imagine what happens....must take a long time to get rid of that.

dr bob

Yup can't spray in a tent.....LOL, I can picture the bear deciding which part to eat first as you lay writhing on the ground. Hmmm, nicely seasoned ;-)

My spray does, however, reside in my tent at night-night. Right next to my Gransforth hatchet (Sheathe on), Tactical 890 lumen light, Kindle and pee bottle.

All it takes is one night of siege by Mr Blackie to get your attention. Ever had the hair on the back of your neck stand erect as a bear is sniffing inches from your arm on the other side of nylon? Its no joke............... although it was the most uncontrollable laughter I have ever experienced as I looked at my pal in the surreal dim light of a weak flashlight and the seriousness of our situation become quite apparent. The occasional dumping of water onto the side of our tent in the rainy night via a tarp which captured about a gallon at a time before its release heightened our emotions as it imitated a bear crashing through a tent rather perfectly. The relief of a false alarm induced hysterical laughing from us which was uncontrollable.

This happened several times throughout the night and we laughed until our sides hurt and our eyes watered. The bear left tracks in the mud at the entrance to out tent, swatted dry bags around and snuffled through the tent. Each time we went out to confront the bruin it was not to be seen. We eventually moved the tent away from the tarp as no sleep would be had if we didn't. Eventually I folded my arms on my chest, Hatchet resting comfortably upon and went to sleep. The last I seen of my buddy was the posture of a warrior ready for business big blade in hand.

The morning dawned beautiful and clear.........Timberwolf lake, Algonquin.

Stories of accidental release of bear spray....

whoops



whoops #2

Whoop #3

dr bob

quote mastertangler: "Yup can't spray in a tent.....LOL, I can picture the bear deciding which part to eat first as you lay writhing on the ground. Hmmm, nicely seasoned ;-)


My spray does, however, reside in my tent at night-night. Right next to my Gransforth hatchet (Sheathe on), Tactical 890 lumen light, Kindle and pee bottle.


All it takes is one night of siege by Mr Blackie to get your attention. Ever had the hair on the back of your neck stand erect as a bear is sniffing inches from your arm on the other side of nylon? Its no joke............... although it was the most uncontrollable laughter I have ever experienced as I looked at my pal in the surreal dim light of a weak flashlight and the seriousness of our situation become quite apparent. The occasional dumping of water onto the side of our tent in the rainy night via a tarp which captured about a gallon at a time before its release heightened our emotions as it imitated a bear crashing through a tent rather perfectly. The relief of a false alarm induced hysterical laughing from us which was uncontrollable.

This happened several times throughout the night and we laughed until our sides hurt and our eyes watered. The bear left tracks in the mud at the entrance to out tent, swatted dry bags around and snuffled through the tent. Each time we went out to confront the bruin it was not to be seen. We eventually moved the tent away from the tarp as no sleep would be had if we didn't. Eventually I folded my arms on my chest, Hatchet resting comfortably upon and went to sleep. The last I seen of my buddy was the posture of a warrior ready for business big blade in hand.

The morning dawned beautiful and clear.........Timberwolf lake, Algonquin.

"

You sound like me, MT. I line up my flashlight, knife, and bear spray, but I've never had a bear so close to camp. Ironically, I have bears closer to my sleeping quarters when I'm at home than in the woods, for there's bear scat quite close to my home.

quote missmolly: "

quote thistlekicker: "In the Gros Ventre Wilderness south of Yellowstone I once ran into a dude who was bowhunting elk, and this guy was carrying a sword.


He said it was for bear protection, because he had heard different things about the effectiveness of both firearms and pepper spray. It looked like one of those medieval replica broadswords, with some bada$$ engraving on the blade and sweet metalwork down the handle (hilt? is it a "hilt"? IDK). I want to say there were even some sort of jewels encrusted, but that may just be my memory embellishing something that occurred years ago.


I talked to him for a few minutes, and tried not to stare at the sword too much.


That guy was the best.


I mention this as just another option for those of you considering various options when it comes to bear protection. You're welcome.



"

A broadsword is okay for blade to claw combat, but I prefer towing a catapult down portage trails. One huge advantage is the number of rocks available for ammo in the Canadian Shield. Poor RiverRunner has to lug all his ammo. Mine is already up there! Plus, a catapulted boulder will stop a bear every time. Every time. I actually don't even have to lug the catapult. I just bring beer and harness some young strong lads to the catapult. They enjoy the challenge and the beer! "

Nothing says kick-ass like a good old fashioned siege engine.

Trebuchet; if you can't hit the bear at least you can launch your pack far beyond their reach.

quote DrBobDg: "

quote LilyPond: "Just a reminder to those who carry bear spray, it's good to know whether you're allergic to it. I found out the hard way that I am violently allergic to capsicum. If you're allergic, spraying it in an enclosed space like a tent with a downwind could be fatal."

I read some posts of folk who leave cans of the stuff rolling around in their vehicle....and of course you can imagine what happens....must take a long time to get rid of that.


dr bob"

I know several LEOs that have suffered from the unintended release of spray. It can be a painful reminder not to do that.

One was the worse ones was what is the hissing sound and why is my crotch feeling
wet. Then dang that burns.

Vehicles well clear out after a few hours and driving at higher speeds with all the windows down help.

I know of one bar and a known trouble spot that's cleared out after a few squirts into the air conditioner.

Spray used properly and under the right conditions can be every effective.

But it is not perfect and failures are well known.

That's the spirit, Mr. Barley! Don't forget to visit my website: www.siegeenginesrus.com

We're running a twofer special this weekend!

I actually ran into riverrunner on a portage trail. I had my sturdy lads towing my siege engine and he had his gun, which he showed me first as my lads were back around a corner. We had a moment quite similar to THIS.

quote Frenchy19: "I guess it is time for a full auto machine gun. Not only will it take care of bears and those dolts who only leave a pack on shore to claim a site, but those big ass muskies also better watch out! Daddy is coming, and he is packing heat!!!"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

quote Basspro69: "

quote Frenchy19: "I guess it is time for a full auto machine gun. Not only will it take care of bears and those dolts who only leave a pack on shore to claim a site, but those big ass muskies also better watch out! Daddy is coming, and he is packing heat!!!"

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL"

If one needed to cross a lake in a hurry due to rollicking wind and rolling water, a machine gun's recoil would be like paddling nitro.

quote missmolly: "

I actually ran into riverrunner on a portage trail. I had my sturdy lads towing my siege engine and he had his gun, which he showed me first as my lads were back around a corner. We had a moment quite similar to THIS. "

But you told me you really liked my gun and wanted it badly now I find out your didn't I am crushed.

Always knew I was in the company of scaredy cats, just never knew there were SO MANY! LMAO!!!

Yup plenty of things to have respect for.........bears, mountain lions, lightening, slick portage trails, getting lost, capsizing in rough water etc. Only the foolish make sport and mock others for considering such. Do you wear your seat belt? If so what are you so afraid of wise guy? Do you try and eat healthy? Or do you just eat pizza, burger and fries? Why eat healthy? What are you afraid of?

So let's see......I wear my seat belt, I try and eat healthy, I wear a life jacket and yes I travel the woods with some heat, be it bear spray, a gun or an axe ( yup an axe > I once had to fend off 2 large aggressive farm dogs, glad I was able to reach into my pack basket and pull it out )

Being knowledgeable respectful developing the skills having the equipment available to handle any situation does not make one afraid nor foolish.
Having a mind set that makes one prepare doesn't make one afraid.

On contrary I found that those who complain the most about others fearing thing usually are the most afraid people who recognized that bad things can and prepare for them are the least afraid.

It seems that they like to project their own personal short comings onto others.

I am or I can't so every body else has to have the same short comings.

Makes them feel so much better.

quote riverrunner: "Being knowledgeable respectful developing the skills having the equipment available to handle any situation does not make one afraid nor foolish.
Having a mind set that makes one prepare doesn't make one afraid.


On contrary I found that those who complain the most about others fearing thing usually are the most afraid people who recognized that bad things can and prepare for them are the least afraid.


It seems that they like to project their own personal short comings onto others.


I am or I can't so every body else has to have the same short comings.


Makes them feel so much better."

The only "bad" thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna shoot a big old bear in 6 weeks and make stew out of him. Master....shove it ya blowhard...you'll never change.

quote riverrunner: "Being knowledgeable respectful developing the skills having the equipment available to handle any situation does not make one afraid nor foolish.
Having a mind set that makes one prepare doesn't make one afraid.


On contrary I found that those who complain the most about others fearing thing usually are the most afraid people who recognized that bad things can and prepare for them are the least afraid.


It seems that they like to project their own personal short comings onto others.


I am or I can't so every body else has to have the same short comings.


Makes them feel so much better."

The only "bad" thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna shoot a big old bear in 6 weeks and make stew out of him. Master....shove it ya blowhard...you'll never change.

Riverrunner...I bet you wear a bicycle helmet don't you? How about a nut cup...never know when a rock could kick up or maybe a bird fall dead out of the sky and nail ya right in the nollies. Can never be too safe:)

quote riverrunner: "

quote missmolly: "


I actually ran into riverrunner on a portage trail. I had my sturdy lads towing my siege engine and he had his gun, which he showed me first as my lads were back around a corner. We had a moment quite similar to THIS. "

But you told me you really liked my gun and wanted it badly now I find out your didn't I am crushed."

You equated your gun and your penis.

I was attacked by some geese on the golf course the other day...common occurrence in the spring but not this late in the year...can we blame climate change on animal aggression?

quote : "Riverrunner...I bet you wear a bicycle helmet don't you? How about a nut cup...never know when a rock could kick up or maybe a bird fall dead out of the sky and nail ya right in the nollies. Can never be too safe:)"

And I bet you love being a troll insulting people to make yourself not seem as pathetic. People who resort to bringing others down, at least in their minds, typically only do so because they find the need to validate themselves. It makes it so you don't come across as quite so pathetic in your own mind compared to the people you are supposedly outwitting with your "clever" remarks. Its not clever, its not funny, and it only makes you look sad and pathetic.

The only other plausible explanation for your behavior is to vent your pent up aggression/stress. Careful with that. You may think it is safe to do it anonymously online but that just leads to the easing of your self control. Pretty soon that aggression and negativity will bleed into your daily life and there is no way to hide it there. It is a self destructive downward spiral and will cause you to snap much easier at others in person causing you to appear just as bitter and irresponsible are you are online.

While you may think you are "saying it like it is" or "speaking your mind" without being PC, it just comes across to everyone like you are shouting "I'm an idiot". No one disagrees with you there.

My guess Is things have gotten a little quiet where guest paddler is from and figures he would come spew his attitude here. Indeed, some things never change.

No bigey, he will not find a receptive audience here.

quote missmolly: "

quote riverrunner: "

quote missmolly: "



I actually ran into riverrunner on a portage trail. I had my sturdy lads towing my siege engine and he had his gun, which he showed me first as my lads were back around a corner. We had a moment quite similar to THIS. "

But you told me you really liked my gun and wanted it badly now I find out your didn't I am crushed."

You equated your gun and your penis. "

Sounds like projecting to me

quote : "

quote
."

The only "bad" thing that's gonna happen is I'm gonna shoot a big old bear in 6 weeks and make stew out of him. Master....shove it ya blowhard...you'll never change.
"

Having killed and eaten many bears Stew is one of the many ways to fix bear meat.

I found a good pot roast done all day in a slow cooker to be very tasteful also.

So where are you going bear hunting I enjoy conversing with other hunters.

For a wild story on bear/human interaction in northern Minnesota (near Ely) give THIS a listen.

Of course if you prefer to believe that the only way to cope with bears is to be prepared to use "all necessary force" the story might not be for you. I know that those that believe guns are the only practical solution are not usually open to alternative theories of existence.

These "discussions" never fail to amuse me:)

quote Banksiana: "For a wild story on bear/human interaction in northern Minnesota (near Ely) give THIS a listen.


Of course if you prefer to believe that the only way to cope with bears is to be prepared to use "all necessary force" the story might not be for you. I know that those that believe guns are the only practical solution are not usually open to alternative theories of existence."

I think strong a hugs, kissing them and petting for those of you who are so inclined
to do is the proper response.

Talking really nice to them works also. Telling them what poor mistreated souls they are and how horrible it is for man to be in their home.

And only if the nasty old humans would just stay out of the woods none of the bad things we hear about bears would ever happen.

So please starting tomorrow every body stay out of the woods.

Getting back to the original post......it seems the Alaskan bear activity is really up this year. Hunger wrapped in fur.
Alaska/Kenai Peninsula/Recent Bear Sightings Log
This July 3rd video makes the hairs on my neck stand up: https://www.facebook.com/rhoda.jensen/posts/10155033057283778

quote riverrunner: "In the last month, there have been four black bear attacks with two fatalities and three hurt in Alaska, Wisconsin and Colorado. Three of the four were confirmed predatory attacks. Just friendly furry forest critters doing what friendly furry forest critters do.

Remember to take all necessary precautions when camping this summer."

Riverrunner,

From your posts to this thread, it appears you are a person who lives in fear of bears. As one who has traveled for years in the north country and the western US wildernesses I do not hold this fear. I do solo trips every year in the BWCA. I was a lookout in the Idaho wilderness where GRIZ lived. I have seen many signs of bears near to me, and have encountered them in my camp, but I have never developed the fear you have of these animals.

Can you please summarized what happened to cause you to have this fear, when many people, myself included never have?

Do not think that I am one of the people who believe that bears are the warm fuzzies that you project onto those who question your ethic. I am constantly aware, whether solo or with companions, that I am in the range of wild animals that I have no psychological connection with other than fascination and respect. Every day and night, as I sit in my solo camp I know that, at any moment, I may have to defend myself, my food and gear, but I have no willingness or desire to kill an animal whose range I have entered for purely recreation purposes.

Why do you?

Oh brother......Riverrunner has a fear of bears? From my perspective he and Linden have the most experience concerning bears from what I can tell living in close proximity to them. Riverrunner sounds to me like he is the LEAST fearful of bears........it also sounds like he is not naive concerning the potential for a negative interaction and is not particularly concerned should one arise as he sounds like he knows exactly what should be done. Fear vs respect.......there is a huge difference. Given a choice to be with Riverruner or Gkimball in a dicey bear situation I know who I would choose.

I'm guessing the guy who went to live with the grizzlies in Alaska wasn't afraid of them either. Maybe we can ask him? Oh wait, he's dead.

quote mastertangler: "Oh brother......Riverrunner has a fear of bears? From my perspective he and Linden have the most experience concerning bears from what I can tell living in close proximity to them. Riverrunner sounds to me like he is the LEAST fearful of bears........it also sounds like he is not naive concerning the potential for a negative interaction and is not particularly concerned should one arise as he sounds like he knows exactly what should be done. Fear vs respect.......there is a huge difference. Given a choice to be with Riverruner or Gkimball in a dicey bear situation I know who I would choose.


I'm guessing the guy who went to live with the grizzlies in Alaska wasn't afraid of them either. Maybe we can ask him? Oh wait, he's dead.


"

It is the fear and respect of bears, which everyone with any sense has, being translated into a willingness and desire to kill them that is in question.

One should respect them and not grant them anything other than being a wild animal, but they do not need to feel the need, desire or justification to kill them.

Again, please tell those who do not hold these fears turned into a willingness to kill, and feel satisfaction doing so, where these values come from.

This entire diatribe began with a comment about four bears. Four. None of which were in Minnesota, much less Canoe Country.

I see no reason for this thread to continue its existence here.

I carry a medieval catapult to defend against bears and keep a large bag of fish carcasses for use as ammunition when I see one. The Catapult is much faster to setup than a Trebuchet even though not quite as effective. Some bears seem great about catching my ammo midair and those bears have my full respect. Bear Spray and guns have their place but ya gotta go old school to really get the job done.

quote schweady: "This entire diatribe began with a comment about four bears. Four. None of which were in Minnesota, much less Canoe Country.


I see no reason for this thread to continue its existence here.


"

When we tire of it, the mods will delete it and it will be gone forever, until it rises again as the next bear thread. It's the thread that won't die, but I do wish someone would start a thread about zombie bears. Using the Jurassic Park formulation, I'd create some zombie T-Rexes to fight them. The BWCA will be the coolest place!

quote gkimball: "

quote mastertangler: "Oh brother......Riverrunner has a fear of bears? From my perspective he and Linden have the most experience concerning bears from what I can tell living in close proximity to them. Riverrunner sounds to me like he is the LEAST fearful of bears........it also sounds like he is not naive concerning the potential for a negative interaction and is not particularly concerned should one arise as he sounds like he knows exactly what should be done. Fear vs respect.......there is a huge difference. Given a choice to be with Riverruner or Gkimball in a dicey bear situation I know who I would choose.



I'm guessing the guy who went to live with the grizzlies in Alaska wasn't afraid of them either. Maybe we can ask him? Oh wait, he's dead.



"

It is the fear and respect of bears, which everyone with any sense has, being translated into a willingness and desire to kill them that is in question.


One should respect them and not grant them anything other than being a wild animal, but they do not need to feel the need, desire or justification to kill them.


Again, please tell those who do not hold these fears turned into a willingness to kill, and feel satisfaction doing so, where these values come from."

From my perspective Riverrunner has only shown a desire to eliminate problem bears and a desire to hunt them within the bounds of legal and ethical norms. Assigning fear as as the motivation is at best shallow thinking and at worst purposeful dishonesty.

Death Rates per year in U.S. for last twenty years:

Hypothermia 187
Lightning 90
Bee Stings 55
Bears 1.3

quote vnzill: "I carry a medieval catapult to defend against bears and keep a large bag of fish carcasses for use as ammunition when I see one. The Catapult is much faster to setup than a Trebuchet even though not quite as effective. Some bears seem great about catching my ammo midair and those bears have my full respect. Bear Spray and guns have their place but ya gotta go old school to really get the job done."

Yes! It could be fun. I can visualize it! BWCA Annual FishGuts Catapult Festival. Portable, lightweight catapults that tuck into portaging packs for marketing. vnzill, you are brilliant! Once again, the seemingly outdated, old-fashioned ways trump!

As a longtime catapult user, if I'm being charged by a darting bear and can't hit my target, I simply jump into the catapult's pouch and launch myself to safety.

However, I'm not the sort of person who only cares about my safety. Since 480,000 Americans each year are killed by cigarettes, I have a fire extinguisher strapped to my hip, which I use to douse any lit cigs, cigars, and the occasional pipe.

Freddy has it right. If you carry a gun for bears to be prepared, given the stats, you should carry 55 epipens, 90 lightning rod systems, and a combination of 187 blankets, wetsuits, and handwarmers.

quote gkimball: "

quote mastertangler: "Oh brother......Riverrunner has a fear of bears? From my perspective he and Linden have the most experience concerning bears from what I can tell living in close proximity to them. Riverrunner sounds to me like he is the LEAST fearful of bears........it also sounds like he is not naive concerning the potential for a negative interaction and is not particularly concerned should one arise as he sounds like he knows exactly what should be done. Fear vs respect.......there is a huge difference. Given a choice to be with Riverruner or Gkimball in a dicey bear situation I know who I would choose.



I'm guessing the guy who went to live with the grizzlies in Alaska wasn't afraid of them either. Maybe we can ask him? Oh wait, he's dead.



"

It is the fear and respect of bears, which everyone with any sense has, being translated into a willingness and desire to kill them that is in question.


One should respect them and not grant them anything other than being a wild animal, but they do not need to feel the need, desire or justification to kill them.


Again, please tell those who do not hold these fears turned into a willingness to kill, and feel satisfaction doing so, where these values come from."

There are hunters and there are non-hunters. It has been demonstrated time and again how non-hunters often lack an understanding about how hunters think and what they really do. To hunt an animal is to get close to it. The only way to get closer to an animal than hunting would either be capturing or domesticating, neither is safe, legal or ethical and both options change the animals natural setting. The closest comparison is catch and release fishing or feeding ducks at a pond, and can you imagine trying that with a bear or even a deer?

If you like going to the BWCA then you must like getting close to nature. That is a huge part of hunting. It is extremely rare that you go out hunting and spend more time shooting and processing the animals than you do just being in the great outdoors searching or waiting for the animal you are hunting. Getting the kill is the climax and comes with the added benefit of obtaining the meat, but it is not the only reason we do it. If you enjoy fishing then you should be able to understand at least part of that. Its called hunting for the same reason we don't call fishing, "catching".

quote missmolly: "As a longtime catapult user, if I'm being charged by a darting bear and can't hit my target, I simply jump into the catapult's pouch and launch myself to safety.


However, I'm not the sort of person who only cares about my safety. Since 480,000 Americans each year are killed by cigarettes, I have a fire extinguisher strapped to my hip, which I use to douse any lit cigs, cigars, and the occasional pipe.


Freddy has it right. If you carry a gun for bears to be prepared, given the stats, you should carry 55 epipens, 90 lightning rod systems, and a combination of 187 blankets, wetsuits, and handwarmers."

It would be fun fun seeing the expression on people's faces when a lit cigarette is extinguished by your fire extinguisher. I am sure they would thank you for your kindness. My big worry is skeeters so I hand load shotgun shells with rock salt and take my 12 gauge with me.

Taking something to give a little peace of mind against a nasty bear sure does not bother me but it is interesting to see how people think. One thing with statistics is that they are often presented in total population instead of the number of people actually in an area that might be in danger. Shark attack danger is a low statistic for the general population but if one is always surfing and swimming with sharks, that would not hold true. If often hiking and such in bear country the statistics are different for most of the population rarely set foot in bear country. The danger of dying while SCUBA diving is a very low percentage for the population, but not so low if you just examine all certified active divers. There have been fatal black bear attacks in the Appalachian Mountains where I live in the not so distant past but it does not discourage me from backpacking. Part of any outdoor experience is knowing potential problems and having a solution. A good first aid kit is not always used but very welcome if needed.

I do like the idea of being launched by a catapult though.... sounds kinda fun... until time to land. Maybe I need to also pack a hang glider?

quote A1t2o: "

quote gkimball: "

quote mastertangler: "Oh brother......Riverrunner has a fear of bears? From my perspective he and Linden have the most experience concerning bears from what I can tell living in close proximity to them. Riverrunner sounds to me like he is the LEAST fearful of bears........it also sounds like he is not naive concerning the potential for a negative interaction and is not particularly concerned should one arise as he sounds like he knows exactly what should be done. Fear vs respect.......there is a huge difference. Given a choice to be with Riverruner or Gkimball in a dicey bear situation I know who I would choose.



I'm guessing the guy who went to live with the grizzlies in Alaska wasn't afraid of them either. Maybe we can ask him? Oh wait, he's dead.



"

It is the fear and respect of bears, which everyone with any sense has, being translated into a willingness and desire to kill them that is in question.



One should respect them and not grant them anything other than being a wild animal, but they do not need to feel the need, desire or justification to kill them.



Again, please tell those who do not hold these fears turned into a willingness to kill, and feel satisfaction doing so, where these values come from."

There are hunters and there are non-hunters. It has been demonstrated time and again how non-hunters often lack an understanding about how hunters think and what they really do. To hunt an animal is to get close to it. The only way to get closer to an animal than hunting would either be capturing or domesticating, neither is safe, legal or ethical and both options change the animals natural setting. The closest comparison is catch and release fishing or feeding ducks at a pond, and can you imagine trying that with a bear or even a deer?


If you like going to the BWCA then you must like getting close to nature. That is a huge part of hunting. It is extremely rare that you go out hunting and spend more time shooting and processing the animals than you do just being in the great outdoors searching or waiting for the animal you are hunting. Getting the kill is the climax and comes with the added benefit of obtaining the meat, but it is not the only reason we do it. If you enjoy fishing then you should be able to understand at least part of that. Its called hunting for the same reason we don't call fishing, "catching"."

Thanks for your post. As one who hunted deer in the BWCA for 10 years I agree totally with your description about hunting animal who has they upper hand for food. In fact, after hunting there I found it less enjoyable than hunting anywhere else.

So I am not categorically against all hunting. What I am trying to get at is the implied willingness, perhaps even a desire, to kill bears, any bears, who happen to "trespass" into a camp, frighten or otherwise challenge people that we see in these bear threads.

The sticking point for me is when is a problem bear the real problem, rather than the people who come into it's range? There are so many ways to deter, avoid and repel black bears that even considering killing them myself, because I run into one seems completely unnecessary. Yes there are predatory black bears, but they are darn few and don't even warrant serious consideration, in my view. Just for the record I carry bear spray, a noise making device, am a freak about keeping a clean camp and paying attention to what is around me.

If this willingness (desire?) does not exist and I am misreading people, help me to understand what I am seeing better. Kind of like if we were sitting around the fire one evening with nothing else to talk about...

vnzill, my superheroine catchphrase will be, "COPD, fear me!"

"paying attention to what is around me." is great advice. When I'm in a city, my head is on a swivel.

People who say, "He came out of nowhere!" weren't paying attention.

I watch women jog with ear buds in cities and shake my head.

When I lived in Boston, I walked four miles home every night and through a rough neighborhood. One night, a guy attacked four women on the street I walked. I saw him and moved to the middle of the street, keeping an eye on him as he trailed me. He eventually split away and I didn't learn until I got home what was happening on that street. I do the same in the woods. Head + swivel = few surprises

Our groups practice a "staged" method with bears and moose (we have moose in camp 3 times in the last 2 years).

1. noise, banking pots, yelling, linking up to look bigger

2. if at night, use of tactical flashlights along with number 1 above.

3. if these fail, we have bear spray.

4. If an attack was imminent or under way, we carry a 45-70 rifle for a camp rifle

Never had to go past number 1 above. That said, several of the men carry .45 ACP pistols when under way during the day as well as bear spray.

Upon taking command of a campsite my group builds a small bunker complex with a fall back position of slit trenches with hidden exit tunnels to stashed canoes. A ceremonial coin toss at each site determines which member of the crew must remain to draw claw and fang to cover our retreat.

Ocky,
The 45-70 is a deadly and heavy piece of iron.
My buddy who is born and raised in Ak carry's one, I've hauled it around a few times.
I still choose bear spray in AK.
"Hope I'm not disappointed" :-)

Banksiana, that was great, I got a good belly laugh on that one.

PS, if I were doing what BeaV did in Ak, I would carry a firearm and bear spray, as he did in his video's.
AK bears, Brown/Griz and Black bears are a whole different anamil here than in the BW.

Jeff bridges and bear spray, National Park Service.

quote riverrunner: "

quote Frenchy19: "Well, shit. I hope I never run into riverrunner anywhere! The dude is way too macho for me, and I have no doubt he would shoot me just to put me in my place as someone who carries bear spray in Glacier. (Note: I am not nor ever have been worried about bears in the BWCA/Quetico. Probably another reason for rr to shoot me!)"

We most likely get along just fine talk canoes fishing and have a great time.


In 33 years of working as a law enforcement officer I never shot any one nor in the 50 plus years of using firearms.


It amazes me that the people who talk about using firearms improperly are always those who rally against them the most.


One wonders if the are projecting a lack of personnel control. "

So, we'd talk fishing and canoes and not bears?

In the entire history of the BWCA, two injuries from one bear in 1987. That's it! Bring your firearms if you must but frankly, I am more concerned about homosapiens than any bear.

quote Freddy: "
In the entire history of the BWCA, two injuries from one bear in 1987. That's it! Bring your firearms if you must but frankly, I am more concerned about homosapiens than any bear.
"

Indeed......I would be hard pressed to carry a firearm into BWCA or the Quetico on an average canoe trip. Having said that there were some fatalities incurred in Algonquin via black bears. A very similar park in as much as it's fairly busy and primarily a canoeing park. So stuff can and does happen.

I prefer spray and like that it is useful for an ornery moose as well.

But get further north into more remote country and the threat of black bears or polar bears can be a very real threat. The more remote you are the greater likelihood a firearm could be useful. At least according to what I have read.

firearms are simply tools. We bring them for the same reason we bring a first aid kit, PFD's and a Spot. We don't plan on needing any of them. They are simply part of a lifestyle of being prepared.

quote ockycamper: "firearms are simply tools. We bring them for the same reason we bring a first aid kit, PFD's and a Spot. We don't plan on needing any of them. They are simply part of a lifestyle of being prepared."

A non-rational response to an irrational fear.

If you thought you might encounter a nail on your trip would it be necessary to carry 3 hammers and a sledge (multiple hand-guns and a rifle in the same group)? A rational person would pound the one-in-a-million nail with a rock and leave the hammers at home.

It's not a tool it's a fetish.

So fatigued with anecdote being presented as reasoning by chicken-shit Wyatt Earp wannabes.

Those that bring handguns do so because that is a lifestyle choice. They have permits and carry as part of their daily routine. BWCA does not change that practice. As to the rifle, it is part of the gear we bring on any wilderness trip we are part of.

You are free to make your own choices which is what makes this country unique. I can't speak for anyone outside of our group, but those in our group that carry weapons are all highly trained, and many ex military. It is not a fetish and they are certainly not afraid.

I think anyone reading this thread objectively would have to say that overall those who are in favor of firearms have been more polite.

Sad that people cannot have a polite discussion without ridiculing someone else. If you disagree, just state your point. No need to degrade the other side.

quote drnatus: "I think anyone reading this thread objectively would have to say that overall those who are in favor of firearms have been more polite.


Sad that people cannot have a polite discussion without ridiculing someone else. If you disagree, just state your point. No need to degrade the other side.


"

Touche' and checkmate! The intolerance of those who claim to be the "open minded" has become astonishing in our current age.

I am in the camp of liberty and tolerance. Indeed carrying firearms for many is a lifestyle choice akin to brushing your teeth every morning. If used in a lawful, responsible, ethical and morally good way why should that be a reason to denigrate anyone?

quote drnatus: "I think anyone reading this thread objectively would have to say that overall those who are in favor of firearms have been more polite.


Sad that people cannot have a polite discussion without ridiculing someone else. If you disagree, just state your point. No need to degrade the other side.


"

Did you miss the flasher fantasy?

"But you told me you really liked my gun and wanted it badly now I find out your didn't I am crushed."

I said "more" not "completely".

quote drnatus: "I said "more" not "completely"."

Point taken.