Hi everyone! I just joined this site as part of getting ready for a trip this fall. I'm basically a gram-counting solo backpacker, with a particular interest in slower paced off trail exploration. I'm sort of a late starter. (I'm in my mid-forties now) I did a lot of rock climbing when I was living in Colorado and overnight stealth camping, but never backpacking. Ironically, when I returned to the midwest, I started getting interested in backpacking and realized all the opportunities I missed in Colorado. I don't recommend doing as I've done :)

Over the past few years I've focused on navigation, getting my pack weight down, good lightweight food, and dialing in how to stay warm and dry in a hammock -- which is a heavier pack but an enjoyable way to sleep! I haven't been to BWCA before and I've done river canoeing/kayaking so far.

My plan for this September is to combine all of the things I enjoy into boundary waters trip: solo travel, hammock camping, and slow-paced exploration.

My question is kind of simple but strikes me as kind of important: are there any "best practices" for working with an outfitter for a trip like this? I do need to rent a canoe/paddles... but I don't want a full outfitting and I also don't want to abuse any goodwill and be too demanding. For example, the types of things I would be interested in asking are:

* Route advice that prioritizes: solitude and history/pictographs. I'll fish but it isn't a priority for the trip.
* I'm interested in exploring smaller lakes more so than big expanses of water.
* Renting of kevlar solo canoe, paddles.
* Assistance with purchasing permits/maps.
* Shuttle to/from entry.
(Maybe lodging first and last night)

It's it normal for someone to approach an outfitter with these kinds of questions and reasonably expect answers? Any advice for someone before he begins having conversations with outfitters?

Thanks!

-jamie

The outfitters are a good source for these questions. I've gone from full outfitting (once) to just a few items and pre and post trip lodging. Bought my used canoe from them after renting for 5 or so years.

And you'll get great - maybe the best - answers to some of those questions here.

A few thoughts for you and a couple of questions . . .

Your experience and gear will serve you well; your new challenges will likely be portaging (backpacking with a canoe) and flat water paddling. I don't know if you'll single or double portage, which affects speed of travel. And, of course, no idea of how far/long you plan to paddle in a day. You'll need to figure some good estimate of that (maybe 2 mph?) and should also build in some time for weather delays, primarily wind. Days, of course, are a little shorter in Sept. and the weather is highly variable.

As bill said, yes, it's perfectly normal to use outfitters for a variety of services from full outfitting to rental of a canoe. I just rent a canoe these days, but have always used my own gear and food. I have also had an outfitter secure my permit, have rented canoe packs, have purchased new and used gear from them, have used their bunkhouses/campgrounds, and have had them shuttle me to entry points. As he said, you'll also find a lot of great information and advice here.

You can access outfitter information/websites by clicking on that link here. Many have routes listed on their sites in addition to information about their services.

But before you choose an outfitter, you'll want to choose the entry point that best meets your needs, then an outfitter that serves that entry. Since you're going in Sept., although you don't say exactly when or for how long, most permits should still have availability.

Here's a link to a recent trip report that is focused on the priorities you have mentioned. This or some variation may be what you are looking for although it would be an ambitious first trip. There are other options, so you may want to ask questions after you have read it.

Most of the best pictograph displays are more accessible from the Ely area entry points. Solitude, beyond going later in the season and mid-week, is mostly achieved by traveling beyond about a day and a half from an entry point and/or visiting areas that can only be accessed by long, tough portages, which it sounds like you are prepared to do.

I had quite a bit of solitude on my
2016 trip .

Pictures are available here.

Welcome to our board, Jamie. A great question. Most outfitters offer full service and partial outfitting. And they post prices for services they offer on a partial basis. I started camping in the BWCA /Quetico and have expanded over recent years with intent to travel/camp/paddle/hike most of the US and if lucky beyond. I have found the outfitters serving the BWCA to be some of the best and most helpful.
Your experience tells me you have most of what you need to know, just the details of tripping in the BWCA. The BWCA is kinda like Colorado in that while overall very similar there are differences. The mountains around Meeker are not the same as around Buena Vista. There are lots of areas offering smaller lakes and some rivers to explore and like hiking in Colorado, there really are no bad places to go. Some are just busier than others. September is an excellent time to visit. Days are still long enough to get things done, bug count is low, water is still warm, and crowds disappear. Auroras tend to pick up and later in the month colors start showing up in the foliage. Nice choice of first trip timing.
A couple points I picked up in your comments. You hang, we have special interest group for hangers. You sound like it might be solo and we have a special interest group for like minded folks also. I too joined this forum to start trip planning and using its various features find everything I need right here. Most areas I have to visit several sites and then lack the detail of trip reports and camp/portage information found on the map feature here.
And a tip. When portaging the canoe remember balance is even more critical than it is when hiking with pack and gear. And having correct trim when in the water makes a big difference, too.
Enjoy your trip and hang around. We love to hear stories about how new folks fall in love and keep coming back.

Welcome to the site!

Any of the major outfitters in the area can provide you with all of this without any issue.

The needs that you've described are just a normal days work for any one of the many outfitters servicing the BWCA. If you've got an idea on where you'd like to enter the BWCA or at least can narrow it down to the Ely area, Gunflint area, etc then we can offer suggestions on which outfitters we'd recommend in that area. However, there really are a lot of good outfitters out there and any one of them should be able to easily handle your request and get you set up with a canoe that will match your needs and get you set up with some route suggestions. Maps and permits are a simple add on and they'll take care of it all for you. Shouldn't need anything more than a phone call to get it all set up, might also want to consider a stay at an outfitters bunk house the night before so you can get an early start in the morning. Getting there the night before also gives you more time to talk to the outfitter in person, they'll be happy to sit down for a few minutes and go over the maps with you giving you advice on routes, campsites, fishing spots, or any other points of interest in the area you are going.

Jamie, you'll find everything you need to know here on this site. The information and support is incredible.

That being said, I happen to work in Carol Stream and would be willing to meet you for a beer and share what I have learned. Send me a note @ jwb747@yahoo.com

John

Call any outfitter and read your post here. They will fix you up with just what you need. Have your gear listed and they can partial you per your post.
Trip planning,permit, canoe, room, maps,shuttle and being new to bigger flatware solo; an outfitter is very wise and money well spent. There are some listed here on this site.

quote boonie:
Here's a link to a recent trip report that is focused on the priorities you have mentioned. This or some variation may be what you are looking for although it would be an ambitious first trip. There are other options, so you may want to ask questions after you have read it.

Thanks Boonie for the reply, including the trip report and picture -- definitely more ambitious than I would attempt, but a great introduction to what is possible, thanks!

quote bhouse46: You hang, we have special interest group for hangers. You sound like it might be solo and we have a special interest group for like minded folks also. ...

And a tip. When portaging the canoe remember balance is even more critical than it is when hiking with pack and gear. And having correct trim when in the water makes a big difference, too.

Awesome, I didn't pick up on the sub forums, but now I'm signed up and reading through the Hang and Solo groups, thanks for that and the tip!

Thanks for the welcomes and the info. My basic question has been answered and I feel a lot better about making a cold call to an outfitter now. :)

If folks have any suggestions on entry points or routes or trip reports worth focusing on, definitely feel free to point me toward them.

Thanks everyone!

Route suggestions kind of depend on the area you intend to go or which outfitter you use. There are also many hiking trails that can be accessed if you are looking to get out and stretch your legs from a base camp.

Becasue you said you are a back packer that that counts grams I would just encourage you to make sure you bring some additional warm clothes. Assume you'll need an additional full set of warm gear on a rainy/windy 45 degree day when you get to camp. Bringing the extra clothes will also ensure that you have sunny mid-60 degree weather. :-)

quote jamieS: "Thanks for the welcomes and the info. My basic question has been answered and I feel a lot better about making a cold call to an outfitter now. :)


If folks have any suggestions on entry points or routes or trip reports worth focusing on, definitely feel free to point me toward them.


Thanks everyone!"

A couple of suggestions for entries based on your desire to see pictographs:

Little Indian Sioux River North, EP #14 and Moose River North, EP #16 would both allow access to the pictographs on Lac la Croix (LLC), which are considered some of the best in the BW. They would allow you to stick to smaller lakes (other than LLC), offer plenty of solitude, and several route options of varying length. You could also add Stuart River, EP #19, to that list, although I have no personal knowledge or experience with that one.

Mudro, EP #23, would offer the same with access to the Basswood River pictographs.

My 2016 entry and route or some variation is another possibility, although the Fishdance pictos are not nearly as extensive.

If seeing pictos is eliminated, a lot more options are available.

If you click on the planning tab at the top, then on trip reports and BWCA, you'll find trip reports sorted by EP. There are a lot of them for the entries I have mentioned.

On some other points, I'd second paddlinjoe's advice on at least some extra clothing since there's always the possibility of immersion. Read up on cold-water immersion before you go, especially in later Sept. Most of us keep our sleeping bag and a dry set of long johns, socks, and cap in a waterproof compression stuff sack, as well as the extra clothes. That all goes inside the pack, which is lined with a heavy plastic liner. You may want to consider renting a canoe pack with a single large compartment amenable to that. This is particularly true if you are considering trying to single portage. If so, it's essential that the pack is low enough not to interfere with putting the canoe on your shoulders at the same time.

Another consideration for you as a hammockers is "burn areas" and suitable campsites for hanging.

If pictographs are of lesser importance, a lot more options open up.

Truthfully, my priority is solitude, solitude, avoiding nuisance bears from poor campsite practices by others, and solitude. I don't mind long portages if it leads to solitude :)

(And yes, I'm definitely anticipating hypothermia weather and planning clothing appropriately. Even backpacking I double bag my gear -- contractor bag inside my pack and thinner oven bags around my down gear/clothing. On this trip I'll have two pack liners -- one contractor bag for waterproofing and one to reduce friction, ala Jacobsen's recommendation -- and I'll probably still oven bag my down gear.)

In that case I have a few other entries/areas for you to consider since that's my main priority too. There are frequently weekend campers who will just go in a half day or day since there time is limited. If you are not entering on a weekend, then you won't see those people. A lot of other people just like base camping and will go in a day and take day trips. Beyond a day or a day and a half of travel, especially in Sept., the crowd really thins out. And of course longer, tougher portages discourage others.

Kawishiwi Lake, EP #37, offers a lot of options once you reach Malberg Lake. Polly and to a lesser extent Malberg are destinations in that day of travel range. The area NW, N, and NE of there is not heavily traveled. Besides my 2016 trip, I did a 2014 trip with Steve up to Little Saganaga and down to Sawbill for exit. Sawbill, EP #38, can be busy, but the long portage N from Lujenida to Zenith discourages most from going up through there, so is another option for entry. From it you could access the Louse River, which is not heavily used. I have not done the Louse River, but intend to one of these days.

The entire E/W area from Fraser to Elton is very lightly used.

Missing Link, EP #51, is another entry with long portages that takes you to Tuscarora Lake, which is a nice lake and further on to Little Saganaga, which is a beautiful lake and not heavily used. In 2015 I went from Cross Bay, EP #50, to Snipe, across Copper and the Howl portage to Tuscarora and on down that way before returning to exit at Round Lake (Missing Link EP) and a 1-mile road walk to my car at EP #50.

Those are some more areas you might want to research.

Awesome, thanks Boonie!

As a hanger you will find areas with pine more likely to have good hanging options. The spruce and birch are seldom without undergrowth except in heavily used sites. Cedar is great as you have less sap to deal with. I have been able to find one or two good hang sites at most of the campsites with old growth pine areas having multiple options.
The Louse River area you are more likely to see a moose than another canoe. It is so little used recent reports of beaver activity and portage inactivity have left navigation an issue. I had excellent solitude on Wine just after the 4th holiday and the pine made for some good hanging.

I meant to mention that an advantage of solo tripping is that you don't need a big "5-star" campsite with multiple tent pads, etc.; in fact, just about any one will do most of the time. I often avoid the popular ones and use ones that don't see much use. I get out, walk around a site, up to the latrine, and check for any signs of trash and bear problems before I set up.

It's totally normal, partial outfitting. They will hook you up with what you need and give you a ride to and from the Entry Point. They'll suggest routes based on your interests and secure the permit for you. May I suggest something on the Gunflint Trail side? In my experience, it seems to be more of a hikers paradise then the west side. just my two cents. Welcome!

If you backpack, especially ultra light, portaging will be a breeze, because you get to take the pack off at the end! I found portaging a lot easier after taking up backpacking and hiking back home in Washington. Have a great trip.

reading trip reports of EP#37 to #38 loop through Louse river... sounds really good.

I believe cowdoc just went through there, but in the other direction. I have not been through there yet and am not sure, but I believe if you went west to east you'd be going upstream, which could pose more of a problem with beaver dams than if you went downstream. Low water levels will also be a consideration, but so far I hear it's been pretty wet there. Sawbill Outfitters is good to work with and can also give you some information.

You might find this useful reading.

Wow, okay that route has some tough portaging!

quote jamieS: "Wow, okay that route has some tough portaging!"

Yeah, you're sure to get some solitude, but you may want something else for the first one. I think you'd like the loop from #37 up through Little Sag and out at #38 that Steve and I did in 2014. With enough time you could take a day trip out the Louse and back to Malberg on your way up to Little Sag.

EP #14 up through the little lakes south of LLC ( Eugene, Finger, Pocket) and down to Oyster would also be a nice trip, but going through Ely you'll miss the North Shore drive.

In the past I've felt a little odd at times when renting 'just' a canoe from an outfitter, but having used both Clearwater Lodge and Gunflint Outfitters my experience is that they are happy to take whatever business you give them. Both places were very helpful and super friendly. Also both offered amazing breakfast before embarking, and cold beer when returning.

I would suggest you have a look at some options around/off the Border route trail. Paddle in a lake or two, hike a bit, repeat as desired. You could get a motor shuttle from Clearwater Outfitters to the portage to West Pike. Set up camp there and hike to Pine or to Mountain as a day trip, moving your camp to Geobec will probably put you in total solitude.

You would also look at paddling from West Bearskin to Duncan and hiking a bit from there. Do be sure to research blowdown before panning too much. A lot of campsites have cleared tent pads, but not well cleared areas to hang your hammock.

Two tips from someone who's done a lot of hiking.
1. Portages are no big deal. It's not much different than that very first trip we all take. You know the one, with WAY too much gear, heavy food, actual beer...except none of the portages will come close to the distance you put in on that first trip. In fact, if you line up ALL the portages you do on an entire trip it probably won't be as far as your first overloaded backpacking trip's first day.
2. Beware of the, 'well I am canoeing so I can bring xxxx'. You can bring it, but if it pushes you from a single to a double portage, or a double to a triple it's no good.

Boonie, how many days was your #37 to #38 via Little Sanganga? probably 6 days, all travel?

Ep14 does look good...

And thanks everyone, I'm enjoying looking over the maps and checking out these areas/loops.

jaimeS-

email me at the address you get when you click the little envelope under my name and I'll dig out my old files and look up a bunch of information for you and email to you. I'll try to get it done before I leave Wednesday to babysit the grandkids. We didn't really push the Kawishiwi-Little Sag-Sawbill route hard.

I second the motion of EP 37 and Malberg as a base of operations. It'll take a full day to get there and a full day to get out if you're double portaging, so subtract 2 days from your trip total if you want to basecamp there. A better tactic might be camping early afternoon on Polly then a short trip to Malberg early to maximize your chances at a campsite. Late September should guarantee you virtual solitude but you never know. Pictographs at Fishdance are easily reachable in a half day round trip from a Malberg base camp. Lots of exploration options from Malberg. You will reach some extremely remote terriroty within an hour of Malberg. We've done EP 37 twice, gone different directions after Polly, and had great experiences both times. Sawtooth outfitters in Tofte and Sawbill outfitters on Sawbill lake will be able to get you what you need for that EP. Sawtooth is right on the highway, easy to access. Sawbill is a little more remote - but it's right on the lake. Sawbill offers some excellent options as well, but might be a little more busy. They do have a campground on the lake with some nice campsites.

My path was very much like yours. I was a backpacker (primarily Colorado) for decades before attempting a BWCA trip. So that trip style definitely influenced my BWCA style, but we still had some issues - we thought "Hey... the canoe will do most of the work. We can bring lots of fresh food and other luxury items." The first trip quickly dissuaded us of those notions after some difficult portages. Now we pack only slightly heavier than our typical backpacking weight. I bring a (only slightly) heavier but much bulkier sleeping pad than I take on packing trips because it's exponentially more comfortable. We do take a bit of lunch meat and pita bread for the first couple lunches, but mostly freeze dried meals. Otherwise, we pack for backpacking and BWCA very similarly. The primary difference is that portages are short compared to the backpack up to Chicago Basin or Navajo Basin or Snowmass Lake or the heart of the Collegiate Peaks, so you're not walking for hours to get to your destination. You break it up with walking and paddling. And... the best part is that the very highest point of the BWCA is less than 3000 feet - so it's WAY easier to breathe.

Otherwise, much of your gear will be similar - I use the same clothes, outer layers, rain gear, etc. that I take backpacking (but more socks - I always keep a dry pair of socks for camp) same camp and cook gear, same tent, same sleeping bag and pad. I've never tried a hammock, so I can't speak to that aspect. The big difference will be the shoes. I took my Merrell hikers on my first BWCA trip and that was a huge mistake. They were so heavy after the first portage, I felt like I had 10 pound weights tied to each ankle. And my feet were wet from the first launch. Having wet feet is usually an instant mood-killer for me, so I was kind of a b**ch for the whole first trip. A lot of folks here like to use sandals or keens or similar water shoes for paddling, with different shoes for portaging and camp. I prefer a high waterproof boot like LL Bean's Bean boot which keeps my feet dry, and some nice comfy crocs for camp.

You're going to love it. I actually prefer BWCA trips to backpacking now. Still love Colorado, but the trips to the BWCA are my favorite camping trips.

You will find the outfitters who advertise on here, and most all others that service the BWCA, are very reputable and outstanding service providers. Their goal is to provide top notch service, at a reasonable price, to get you to keep coming back year after year. That's how they survive. They won't survive if they provide poor service. I have never seen an industry that is so close, with competitors that help each other out, and get such raving reviews from their customers. Many of these outfitters will be like family in no time. These outfitters will provide you a stress-free vacation. No matter what you show up with or without, they will fill the gap, and are more than happy to do it. Many people end up going back to the same general area year after year because of their loyalty to an outfitter. That's my case. I'm using a different outfitter this fall, and I can tell in my first 2 - 3 communications with them that I will be a customer for life. But at the same time I am extremely happy with another outfitter and feel guilty about trying a new area. It's a great problem to have in today's world.

If you're looking to avoid nuisance bears, I'd avoid Malberg (just take another portage or two north).

That area is notorious for bears, no? I haven't heard anything this year, but it seems not a year goes by that either the folks at the ranger station or on this board mention bear trouble there.

Two trips to Malberg and I've never seen a bear or heard any other campers talk about it - but on a day trip north of Malberg, we stopped for lunch on the island campsite on Adams and found a note detailing a bear experience that had just happened there a couple nights earlier.

This has been a long time ago. Not disputing the Malberg bear claims - but semi supporting it with second hand evidence of a nuisance bear in the general area.

I've never heard of any problems on Malberg, but a lot on Polly in the past.

Okay, an update...

Ultimately, I've gone with something kind of easy-ish. I'm going in via EP #48 Meeds Lake which is a long portage, true, but then it will be mostly playing around the nearby lakes and then heading to #50 for the take-out. Total of 6 nights.

Really looking forward to it. Thanks to everyone for getting my mind around this and an extra thanks to jwb747 for pointing at maps and talking me through it over a beer! :)

-jamie

That should make for a good introductory trip, Jamie and you should have plenty of time. Which way do you plan to go from Meeds to Cross Bay?

I went from #50 across to Poplar one year (2012 report) via Long Island-Muskeg-Kiskadinna-Omega-Henson-Pillsberry-Allen-Horseshoe. A nice trip.

Enjoy yourself! I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts afterwards.

Thanks Boonie, you really got me thinking about the realities of this trip.

I haven't totally decided on the route -- and I'm sure I'll adapt as I go -- so thanks for those lake name... I still have more research to do! :)

You have some options - shorter and longer, so do your research and then see how you are doing and you can adjust. That's what I'm doing for my trip - shorter or longer, easier or harder options. It'll be a good trip either way. :)

Hello, jamieS. The entry and exit points you are considering are the same ones that my friends and I are going to use on our first trip to the BWCA in about a week. The people on this forum have been very helpful in planning our route, and I'm sure any outfitter you choose to deal with would be as well. We are using Gunflint Northwoods Outfitters because they service that area and they have good prices for canoe rentals.

I have started a thread asking for advice on Meeds to Ham/Cross Bay routes, so feel free to check out what people are saying about options in the area or take a look at the route our group has come up with. We will be there for 6 nights and have decided to go from Meeds to Omega, then to the Cone lakes via Winchell, cross Brule on the way to Cherokee, and finally exit to Cross Bay via Long Island.

Just wanted to stop back to the board and post that the trip was a great success. The advice I got here was great and Tuscarora Outfitters were great to work with.



Very cool SolvetCosmos -- that is basically the exact route I did!! Entry on Poplar Lake via Meeds, went to Horseshoe Lake for the first night, up through Ogema to Henson Lake for the second, down through Cones and across Brule and into South and North Temperance for the third night (long day!), Long Island Lake for the fourth Night, Snipe Lake for the fifth and out via Round Lake on the sixth day.



I only saw about 10 other canoes during the trip -- you're going to have great solitude.

Thanks again and best wishes for everyone's next trip!

Good to hear, glad it went well!