Looking for some advice here....

Traveling with a bunch of college-aged dudes (pretty athletic) from August 19th to the 26th doing the Sag to south arm of Knife (base camp) and the Seagull loop. Without a tow and entering on sag, is it possible to make it to SAK in a day (following border route)? And on the flip side, is it possible to make it in a day from SAK to Seagull and complete the loop in a day?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

I made it from American Point to the north Amoeber portage in 6 1/2 hours. That was with a perfect 10 mph east wind and an impatient 16 year old in the bow. I was 55 at that time and reasonably strong. My kid paddles like the lake is on fire and we were in a MN II, so that figure is gonna be pretty hard to beat. I would say it's "possible" to make Thunder Point from EP 55 in 9 to 10 hours, but a lot of things need to go right and it's gonna be an absolute no-nonsense paddle. A moderate west wind and all this goes out the window.

I did this trip in pretty calm water, dropped of at American Point we made it to Eddy Falls area of SAK. Did not start super early but not late either. Did not burn it speed wise but didn't really poke along either. Not sure what time we made SAK but were ready to settle in at an open campsite as soon as we got there thinking for the day that was "enough". While I think it's do-able, particularly if you are all in pretty good shape, getting to SAK on that same route in a day without a tow to start would be a long haul and not that much fun. I'd say get the tow or scale back the target and you'll be able to relax and enjoy the trip a lot more.

I would say it would be very difficult and taxing if not impossible to get from Sag to SAK in a day without a tow, and same from SAK to Seagull.

On Sag, figure about 3 hours from channel to Englishman Island and probably 3 hours from Englishman to Monument Portage alone - not factoring wind. We spent a whole day once on Sag getting from the channel to SW of American Point because we got lost and storm bound on an island. Seagull Outfitters dock to Ogish is about 6 hours, again wind dependent, so I guess between 8 and 10 hours to SAK. That would be a long day to be sure, and you still have to drive home after that.

The portages on this route are nothing to sniff at. I'd take my time if I were you. You have 8 days, that's enough to do the whole route at a good pace with 3 layover days. Maybe consider 5 traveling days and 3 layover days on Ester, on SAK with a day trip to Thunder Point, and on Ogish or Alpine. If I had 8 days and was doing this route that's definitely what I would do. Why move so fast when you don't have to?

I'm not sure you mean to stay on the border the whole way or only until you jump down to SAK via Esther and Hanson.

But like anything else, the answer is "It depends." Assuming flat-calm water and single-portaging, making it from Sag to SAK is very doable. I've done it with my wife with ease, but we had flat-calm water and single-portaged a MNII. The most difficult portage going in is the one from Ottertrack to Esther, imho. The one from Hanson to SAK is stunningly beautiful and worth re-walking. I'd avoid the one into Ashdick.

Of course, there's no need to do it all in one day. Very nice site on the point on Ottertrack, and some nice ones on Esther and Hanson, too, that you'll paddle by. With that much time, what's the rush?

done SAK to seagull landing many times(and visa versa) , our record time coming out (lighter), believe it or not 6hours 20 min. (i was with some texans and the snow was flying side ways and very cold temps on this trip)(and i was 33) , they were motivated to see a vehicle ;) double portages 8.5 hours is an average time , the biggest issue coming out will be when you hit seagull and the wind on that west side.
doing the same route many times does get easier because you know when and how far to stretch your body and mind , first time through any area has some uncertainty to it. but this route is actually a fairly easy route , the longest portage 105rd seagull is like a flat wide road otherwise i believe almost all the portages are under 50rd , little hops skips and jumps , now coming out of the SAK is up hill and wakes you up or at least your shoulders LOL but once you hit annie your done with that . all these portages are under 30rds and knife to eddy and eddy to jennie are a couple of very cool short portages.
when you enter ogish from annie , look at your watch , when you hit dirt at the kingfisher portage 1hour 10 min paddle ;)
OH when in the SAK visit toe lake a very cool little lake with nice smallies and pike everywhere most #3-#5 but we have pulled some 38"+ pike out of there , so they are in there .

quote shock: "done SAK to seagull landing many times(and visa versa) , our record time coming out (lighter), believe it or not 6hours 20 min. (i was with some texans and the snow was flying side ways and very cold temps on this trip)(and i was 33) , they were motivated to see a vehicle ;) double portages 8.5 hours is an average time , the biggest issue coming out will be when you hit seagull and the wind on that west side.
doing the same route many times does get easier because you know when and how far to stretch your body and mind , first time through any area has some uncertainty to it. but this route is actually a fairly easy route , the longest portage 105rd seagull is like a flat wide road otherwise i believe almost all the portages are under 50rd , little hops skips and jumps , now coming out of the SAK is up hill and wakes you up or at least your shoulders LOL but once you hit annie your done with that . all these portages are under 30rds and knife to eddy and eddy to jennie are a couple of very cool short portages.
when you enter ogish from annie , look at your watch , when you hit dirt at the kingfisher portage 1hour 10 min paddle ;)
OH when in the SAK visit toe lake a very cool little lake with nice smallies and pike everywhere most #3-#5 but we have pulled some 38"+ pike out of there , so they are in there . "

This is good. I say figure between 8.5 and 10 with cooperative conditions and some gear. Alpine-Seagull 110 rod portage is a piece of cake, definitely do that one and not the other one which I've heard is treacherous.

quote carmike: The most difficult portage going in is the one from Ottertrack to Esther, imho. The one from Hanson to SAK is stunningly beautiful and worth re-walking. I'd avoid the one into Ashdick.


Of course, there's no need to do it all in one day. Very nice site on the point on Ottertrack, and some nice ones on Esther and Hanson, too, that you'll paddle by. With that much time, what's the rush? "

+1. For my money, Hanson to Knife was harder, but yes stunningly beautiful and totally worth a re-walk. Some great trees and a nice waterfall. I'd stay on Ester if I were you, or near it, at least one night for the scenery.

quote SaganagaJoe: "

quote shock: "done SAK to seagull landing many times(and visa versa) , our record time coming out (lighter), believe it or not 6hours 20 min. (i was with some texans and the snow was flying side ways and very cold temps on this trip)(and i was 33) , they were motivated to see a vehicle ;) double portages 8.5 hours is an average time , the biggest issue coming out will be when you hit seagull and the wind on that west side.
doing the same route many times does get easier because you know when and how far to stretch your body and mind , first time through any area has some uncertainty to it. but this route is actually a fairly easy route , the longest portage 105rd seagull is like a flat wide road otherwise i believe almost all the portages are under 50rd , little hops skips and jumps , now coming out of the SAK is up hill and wakes you up or at least your shoulders LOL but once you hit annie your done with that . all these portages are under 30rds and knife to eddy and eddy to jennie are a couple of very cool short portages.
when you enter ogish from annie , look at your watch , when you hit dirt at the kingfisher portage 1hour 10 min paddle ;)
OH when in the SAK visit toe lake a very cool little lake with nice smallies and pike everywhere most #3-#5 but we have pulled some 38"+ pike out of there , so they are in there . "

This is good. I say figure between 8.5 and 10 with cooperative conditions and some gear. Alpine-Seagull 110 rod portage is a piece of cake, definitely do that one and not the other one which I've heard is treacherous. "

yes definitely a full day from eddy falls to the blankenburg landing , i did do the (alpine river portage once)(both ways) the issues(going to alpine) were a clay base portage and when its wet/early season clumps on the boots and just a lot of slipping around)) even thou it levels off fast you are going against the current, now alpine to seagull , (you should walk any type off rapids first for flow and direction) but going in from alpine to seagull not a bad idea but its been so many years i have no idea of down falls but stay to the left mini deep pockets to glide through , but could save some time , if you see no down falls,,,,, and if you do then you will have to portage . not the worse scenario , alot of cover for paddling on the northside of 3 mile to your landing on seagull. done a few trips via rog too , the 105rd from alpine to seagull is the best choice , i remember when there were wood motor rest brackets for people passing through seagull to get to alpine for walleye fishing (pre 1996) also remember seeing a row boat at a site just outside of jasper falls 1992 ? also loved those thick cut picnic tables in that area. those things would have lasted another 200 years , pic from 1991

quote carmike: "I'm not sure you mean to stay on the border the whole way or only until you jump down to SAK via Esther and Hanson.


............................. The one from Hanson to SAK is stunningly beautiful and worth re-walking. I'd avoid the one into Ashdick.


.............................................................. "

Haha
We began to refer to the Ashdick portage as "Assdick" after repeatedly stepping into knee deep holes while wading the mud on a trip a few years ago. Just an expression of how we felt about the experience. Esther though is a lovely lake. A baby owl kept us company in a tree next to our campsite.