BWCA Not to be morbid but... Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Listening Point - General Discussion
      Not to be morbid but...     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

08/07/2017 12:20PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
... What would you do if someone in your group died in the BWCA?

Assuming natural causes like a heart attack or a stroke, not sure if an accident or even a bear attack would make any difference. Do you stay there looking for help until you are able to find someone who can contact emergency services? Do you haul the body back then call? Do you leave them there and go get help as soon as possible?

I know this is a random topic that hopefully no one will ever need to know the answer to but I lost my grandpa recently and it puts a lot of "what ifs" in your head. (He was 92 and we knew it was coming for a while so we were prepared for it, this is not a looking for condolences thread, I'm just curious.) My assumptions here are that it is a more remote area with no cell service and you are not likely to see very many people. If it were near Ely or an outfitter then going to them or contacting a passing group to send a message would be obvious. An EP without an outfitter or somewhere where there is not a whole lot of traffic seems questionable on what the right thing to do would be.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
08/07/2017 01:11PM  
Press the button on my PLB.
And I have already discussed this possibility with the contacts I have listed.

butthead
 
08/07/2017 01:24PM  
Wow, what a question.

I guess it would depend on how far into the BWCA you were. If I only had to paddle back to civilization, I guess I'd take them out with me.

But if I had portages to traverse on the way out, I'm not carrying any dead weight with me!
 
08/07/2017 01:34PM  
Actually the groups that I have gone with have talked about this. We would do our best to protect the body from animals/weather- tent, tarp, cover with rocks, etc.

If feasible, leave two people with body, while others paddle out and contact sheriff. Would not have anyone be alone- either paddling out or remaining with body.

Safety of the living would take priority over the dead.
 
08/07/2017 01:41PM  
If I were carrying a PLB or other kind of communication device I'd do like Butthead. I think any other situation the answer would be dependent on the size of the group, distance to entry/help, etc.

Morbid yes, but better to think about and game out when you're not in panic mode or in shock.
 
08/07/2017 01:44PM  
All depends on how the fish were biting, poor soul would have to wait if fish were jumping in the boat!!
 
08/07/2017 01:50PM  
In wilderness first aid, we were taught that if you can't use a PLB, then put them in the tent and go for help. Watching someone die is enough trauma as it is. Getting them out would be too much.

On a different note, we have talked about what to do if the dog were to die while in the BWCA. We haven't figured out that answer yet.
 
BnD
distinguished member(810)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 02:24PM  
quote walllee: "All depends on how the fish were biting, poor soul would have to wait if fish were jumping in the boat!!"


Well said!
 
08/07/2017 02:25PM  
quote Canoearoo: "In wilderness first aid we were taught if you can't use a PLB then put them in the tent and go for help. Watching someone die it enough trauma as it is. Getting them out would be to much.


On a different note we have talked about what to do if the dog were to die while in the bwca. We haven't figured out that answer yet."


At least with the dog situation, you are not down 1 person and the dog isn't that heavy compared to an adult. I would carry it out personally, but it does somewhat depend on the distance from the EP. I am usually never more than 1 day's journey from the EP.

I've only ever gone in groups of 2-4. Not having less than 2 per group and splitting up would not be possible for us. My biggest worry with leaving them there would be animals, especially bears. The last thing I would want is to have the retrieval crew show up to a mauled, partially eaten, or even a torn up tent and missing body. Would that really be a big concern?

Probably my biggest worry would be if it happened when there were only 2 or 3 of us to begin with. Then you have gear and boats for 1 more than there are people to haul it, plus the body. I just don't think I would be able to leave them behind unless there was simply no way to bring them back. Even then, leaving them behind would be a tough pill to swallow.
 
08/07/2017 02:35PM  
That would be problematic. I'd use my PLB. Otherwise I'd have to leave the body since if I'm not alone, I'm probably with one other person and carrying them out wouldn't be feasible, especially from somewhere like Cap Lake.
 
Mad_Angler
distinguished member(1720)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 04:16PM  
It depends on group size...

If it was group of 2, I think you don't have a choice. You have to leave the body. It would be too hard to portage.

Larger groups have more options. A group of 3: I guess I would send 1 out and leave 2 there. It would be too creepy to be all alone. A group of 4: 2 out and 2 stay.

I used to take my father to the BW. He said he didn't want to go anymore because he was afraid that he would die up there. I said that I was okay with it and the BW would be a swell place to go. For those trips, we were only 1 portage away from help. I was thinking that I would have to leave him and paddle out for help.
 
08/07/2017 04:25PM  
If I'm with 1 partner and they die then I'd leave the body and attempt to find the nearest help whether that's another group or back to the outfitter or EP. My goal would be to leave the body unattended for as short a time as possible. Hopefully I'd be able to make contact with a nearby group and send them for help while I return to the body.

If I'm with a larger group then at least one person stays with the body and at least one person goes for help. The more people I have in the group the more likely I'd be to send them all the way back to the EP/Outfitter for help. I wouldn't want to disrupt another groups trip unless I had to and if there are multiple people at camp and 2 good paddlers going for help then I don't see the need to bother any other groups unless we're days away from help which is rare in the BWCA.

I'd want to leave the body alone for as little as possible out of respect for them. Presumably I'm likely going to be close to whoever it is that died, mostly I travel alone with my wife so I'd have a hard time leaving for longer than absolutely had to.

 
08/07/2017 04:26PM  
I'm 63 now and being Diabetic and high risk for stroke or heart attack I broke down and bought a Garmin InReach Explorer+ just in case of anything like this. Especially since this year it will be just me and one other guy.

I would be curious to hear what the forest service or law enforcement's input would be on something like this. In general I don't think you are supposed to move a body.

Personally I'd just as soon be buried and left there but doubt that is a good plan either.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/07/2017 04:29PM  
Well, if you're deep in the bush and days from a road and you have no PLB, leaving a person or pair with the body might be hard to bear:

Death Chill: Immediately after the heart stops beating, the body rapidly cools down until it reaches room temperature. This is known as Algor Mortis.
Rigor Mortis: Without the heart pumping, blood coagulates in the veins, arteries and capillaries, causing the entire body to stiffen. Rigor mortis sets in around two to six hours after death.
Decomposition: For a few days after death, some cells (such as skin cells) are still alive. Because of this, the live bacteria starts to break down and putrefy the body.
Colour: First the body turns green, then purple, and then eventually black.
Smell: The putrefying body gives off a sulphurous gas with a horrific smell, similar to rotten eggs.
Bloating: This gas also builds up inside the body, causing the corpse to expand, the eyes to be pushed out of their sockets and forces the tongue out of the mouth.
Blistering: A week after death, the body’s skin will blister so much that the slightest touch will cause it to fall off.
And finally: A month after death a corpse’s hair and nails will fall out, and the organs will liquefy. The body then swells until it bursts open, leaving nothing but the skeleton behind.
 
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(1339)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 04:38PM  
Great question.

I always travel solo or with my wife, so if she died, it would be more than just getting her out... it would be managing to keep my head while doing so. I likely would paddle out solo, if it's not too far, or I'd ask someone for assistance to tandem paddle out. I'd offer to pay for their trip and their next trip, since my imposition would be so great. I'd do what it took to protect the body from heat and animals. I'd go to the sheriff or rangers and tell them what's going on. Carrying a dead body, by oneself, is a near impossible task, especially over portages. I guess I'd pay for the extraction.

Mike
 
pswith5
distinguished member(3687)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 04:40PM  
A little morbid maybe. But, I think it's a good question to get us thinking. If I am tripping with Jeff, he brings a flare gun. I'd use that and wait for help. If with someone else I think I would paddle out and get help. " if I die first- eat me!"
 
08/07/2017 05:15PM  
Possibly review the "leave no trace" rules/regulations? Bury 150 feet from the shoreline or something similar?

Tomster
 
08/07/2017 05:22PM  
Tough one.
If the deceased is my only partner I guess I would wait a day or two to see if I could whistle (3 blasts) down a passing canoe.
If there are 2 or more alive, then one or two stay with the body while the rest paddle out for help.
I think I'm going to get an InReach.
 
08/07/2017 05:24PM  
I travel with my husband. We have talked about this. If one of us dies, the other will leave the camp and paddle out to help. Beside unimaginable grief, I would have a tough time doing anything else. Sheer will power would get me through portages.

Makes me sad thinking about it but death is a reality everyone should think about.

~~
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 05:44PM  
It's actually a very odd subject matter........but.......shit happens. I travel solo in the BWCA but suppose I'd run into somebody who died?
I can't press SPOT button cuz I'd be responsible paying the charges. (I assume.)
I'd secure corpse in a tarp --tying it up nice and neat--and place n his/her canoe to tow. This is one instance when I'd be dragging a canoe along portage(s). No way could I leave it behind. I just couldn't.
 
08/07/2017 07:26PM  
What is surprising me is that anyone thinks that this is an odd topic at all. I have thought about this very scenario before every single canoe trip. We have discussed it, but never set forth concrete plans. Different scenarios were put forth, and different ideas.

Throughout our 42 years of canoe-tripping, I have never been a solo paddler, nor have I been strong enough to carry the canoe. In the early days (before 1998) that meant a Grumman. And even when we got the Bell, I never learned to carry it. Not saying it is an impossibility, but I never did it. Have no skill. So, while my first impulse, if left alone after Spartan1's death (we always traveled with just the two of us) would have been to leave him and get myself to safety. . .the reality is that I would have been unable to do that. Depending, of course, on how far out we had traveled.

I would have no qualms about leaving a dead body. As far as I am concerned, once my husband is dead, he is no longer residing in that earthly shell, and his soul has gone on to be with the Lord. So what happens to the body is of less concern to me than getting myself out in one piece at that time. If I were the one to die suddenly, I would expect HIM to just put me someplace out of the way, and get himself to a safe place where he could find help to come back and retrieve my remains at a later date.

But as far as getting my own self to safety after that unthinkable tragedy (and in our case, it was always more of a possibility than for the average couple, since my husband has been high-risk for many years) I would hope that I was on a route where eventually someone would paddle by that I could holler down/flag down and ask for assistance. Failing in that, I suppose the old standby of building a smoky fire is another possibility. We rarely went to an area where we didn't see another canoe in at least three days. I can yell pretty loudly when I am in a panic. But I would not have taken off into the BWCA across portages and lakes by myself.

We bought a SPOT for our last trip. But before that we had nothing. Just a map and a compass. Faith in each other, and the hope that we could handle whatever happened. And I thought about it every single trip.
 
08/07/2017 09:30PM  
This happened to me in 2001 - one of my best friends drowned on Knife Lake the second morning of our trip. I saved one other trip partner, but my buddy, Joe, went down 20 feet from me before I could get to him. That image will be etched in my mind forever.

Lots of you have heard my story. Water was rough and cold - no PFDs on. We were not able to recover Joe's body.

The drowning happened early in the morning about 9:15am. I waited around camp until about 1 pm. We had made a smokey fire during a fire ban thinking a ranger would come, but they didn't, so another friend and I paddled back to Moose. It was windy and we were exhausted when we got to Moose. Luckily, a Latourell's tow boat saw us, thought we looked out of place and came by and picked us up. The forest service flew in the next morning and recovered his body.

I had to call his mom and dad. I'll never forget his mom's scream when I told her Joe had drowned. I didn't really want to leave the drowning site, but I needed to find help. There were five more mostly newbies we left at camp. We made plans that if help didn't come the next day they would have to paddle out on their own.

I still make trips, but am very cautious and careful and don't ever want to go through that again. Every year before my trip, I get very nervous and worried. I'm always fine once the trip has started.

That's my two cents.
 
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(2059)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/07/2017 10:02PM  
That's why I carry an InReach. I would use it.
 
firemedic5586
distinguished member (190)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 01:22AM  
Field dress and quarter?

Should be a lot faster and much easier than a bear..
 
08/08/2017 01:30AM  
Mcsweem, I knew you had lost a friend, didn't know the exact events and wasn't going to ask. Can't imagine what everyone went through. You did the right thing.

I also have thought of this and if it was me and only one other person, I know I couldn't portage out a canoe and a body, and I would hate to sit with a body waiting for help. If a popular portage is close, I would sit there waiting for other groups to send help when they are able, the more groups, the faster the rescue. :(
 
08/08/2017 05:05AM  
I guess this subject has came up a time or two in our camps. I always told my sons "if I go down, you can give me CPR [they are all military trained so they know how to give CPR] for 3-5 minutes if I'm not with you then, stop, or if you don't want to do CPR I won't hold that against you, no one needs to know either way. If I'm dead take my Leatherman off my belt, my Buck sheath knife and sheath off my belt, my buck pocket knife out of my pocket but leave my BIC because the Devil might need it. Take my drivers license stick it my shirt pocket, wrap my body in a small plastic tarp we carry to cover firewood and get the gear and yourselves out and contact the Ontario Provential Police dept. My son [when just him and I go] is fully capable of paddling our tandem with our gear in it for weight. FRED
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/08/2017 05:32AM  
quote FOG51: "I guess this subject has came up a time or two in our camps. I always told my sons "if I go down, you can give me CPR [they are all military trained so they know how to give CPR] for 3-5 minutes if I'm not with you then, stop, or if you don't want to do CPR I won't hold that against you, no one needs to know either way. If I'm dead take my Leatherman off my belt, my Buck sheath knife and sheath off my belt, my buck pocket knife out of my pocket but leave my BIC because the Devil might need it. Take my drivers license stick it my shirt pocket, wrap my body in a small plastic tarp we carry to cover firewood and get the gear and yourselves out and contact the Ontario Provential Police dept. My son [when just him and I go] is fully capable of paddling our tandem with our gear in it for weight. FRED"


Of course, if they revive you with CPR, you're now deep in the bush with broken ribs, which is a whole other problem, but at least you get to keep your Buck knife!
 
08/08/2017 08:45AM  
quote butthead: "Press the button on my PLB.
And I have already discussed this possibility with the contacts I have listed.


butthead"


That's exactly what I was thinking.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 09:14AM  
This a good discussion. I have the advantage of having to deal with people who have died from many causes, natural to very violent deaths. I have seen and handle dozens of dead bodies been on rescue missions recovering them.

Some thinking and preplanning goes a long ways in helping with the situation.

My trip a week ago went from it plan to a base camping trip in about 2 seconds my partner slip and fell and hurt his hip and leg.

If he would have broke his hip or femur it would have turned into a rescue mission.

Pre planning and training I highly recommend people get some first responder training or wilderness first aid training.

I was once a certified EMT during my career I had many hours of training even a little bit of knowledge goes a long ways.

The biggest factor it helps eliminate the panic factor.

Also don't be afraid to ask for help I have found wilderness travelers well go out of their way to help another. Even if it means ruining their whole trip also.

After this trip we well be seriously thinking of electronic means of signaling for help.

Dead bodies are a lot easier to deal with then a injured person there is no need to risk oneself to take care of them. No matter what you do they are dead.

There books and books written about this kind of stuff the knowledge is there seek it out.

Again a little fore thought and planning goes a long ways.

Let hope we all have death and injury free tripping but in a split second it can change.
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
08/08/2017 09:39AM  
quote riverrunner: "I have the advantage of having to deal with people who have died from many causes, natural to very violent deaths. I have seen and handle dozens of dead bodies been on rescue missions recovering them. "

What do you do, Duane?
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 09:40AM  
quote firemedic5586: "Field dress and quarter?

Should be a lot faster and much easier than a bear.."


I always kid my tripping partners about this in in reality it well never happen.

Having field dressed and hauled out many game animals.

A human would be just has hard physically to do and a lot harder mentally to do unless you are a psychopath.

But still makes for some good laughs on a trip.
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 09:44AM  
quote Jackfish: "
quote riverrunner: "I have the advantage of having to deal with people who have died from many causes, natural to very violent deaths. I have seen and handle dozens of dead bodies been on rescue missions recovering them. "

What do you do, Duane? "


Sheriff's deputy then a state trooper for over 33 years total time.
 
dentondoc
distinguished member(1097)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 10:07AM  
If I were involved, these are the steps I'd take.

1) Secure the body, if possible (i.e., place it in some type of protective covering). If the death is accidental, try not to disturb the scene as best as possible.
2) Press the 911 button on my SPOT. (Most of my traveling partners carry one also.)
3) Wait for authorities to arrive.
4) Have each party member independently write notes of what happened and anything they were doing before, during and immediately after the incident, along with a timeline of these events.

Taking these steps should assist law enforcement in putting the pieces together, especially if the death was not from natural causes (e.g., heart attack).

dd
 
08/08/2017 11:18AM  
My experience is a bit different than that posed by the OP. I think it is relevant. I believe I've told this story before, sorry for repeating myself.

We were kayaking the Banning Rapids on the Kettle river. It was March, deep snow in the woods and the sections of river with mild current were covered with ice. A man had drowned running these rapids the prior autumn, his body was never found. We were easily the first people to travel the river that year. We were making jokes about what we would do if we found the missing man's body.

1970s vintage whitewater kayaks were really tippy. You had to have a bomb proof eskimo roll. In the extreme conditions we were paddling in, it is unlikely that anybody could execute a roll as the water temps would definitely shock your body.

Of course, I found the body. He was up against the ice below the last rapids. The body was in good condition as i am sure it had been frozen all winter. To pull the body out of the river would have been really risky. There was a very good chance of flipping and getting washed under the ice. We left him.

This was way before cell phones and magical tech devices. It was probably two hours before we contacted the sheriff and gave him info regarding the location of the missing man. They apparently sent out helicopters.

That evening, I got a call from the sheriff. They found no body and were wondering if we were pulling a prank. The body disappeared under the ice only to be found many months later (August) by a fisherman.

Years later, sitting here in a soft chair and summer warmth, I wonder what we could have done differently. I felt horrible that we left the guy like that. However, we had to consider our own safety. This still bugs me.
 
Kobykat
senior member (58)senior membersenior member
  
08/08/2017 11:26AM  
The official stance is, bury the remains well away from the campsite, but I disagree, I say, deep six the remains, just make sure you paddle away from any campsite so as not to ruin another guest's experience.
 
Duckman
distinguished member(528)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 12:26PM  
On a relevant note, some things are avoidable, don't do anything like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNJxDWX-qes
 
Porkeater
distinguished member (225)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 12:53PM  
Rocks, rope, deepest spot in the lake . . . .
 
QueticoMike
distinguished member(5280)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/08/2017 12:55PM  
quote drnatus: "Actually the groups that I have gone with have talked about this. We would do our best to protect the body from animals/weather- tent, tarp, cover with rocks, etc.


If feasible, leave two people with body, while others paddle out and contact sheriff. Would not have anyone be alone- either paddling out or remaining with body.


Safety of the living would take priority over the dead. "


This sounds like what I what do.
 
08/08/2017 01:25PM  
Viking Funeral!


 
08/08/2017 05:02PM  
Wrap them up in a sleeping bag and carry them out. Leave no man behind. A dog I would give a proper burial because what cooler place to be buried.
 
08/08/2017 05:23PM  
Do folks think wrapping and moving a body will be helpful to any authorities investigating? Or encouraged?

I'm not about to assume to know better, would check for life, if none my civil duty is to alert authorities soon as possible. Not to move or tamper with anything.

Far as being charged for emergency services, that idea would prevent a lot of 911 calls.

butthead
 
mastertangler
distinguished member(4432)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/08/2017 05:25PM  
 
08/08/2017 05:43PM  
FYI: My very fit fire crew and I have carried a number of injured and one dead person off various mountains during my career as a wildland firefighter.
It takes a minimum of 6-10 people using a Ked Board to carry a 170+ pound person off a mountain. The last 2-4 people have to bump ahead from the rear to the front, then you just pass the litter forward, between people.

If anyone thinks they are going to carry deceased person very far, they may be in for a real surprise. Granted it would be easier on a level portage than the mountains, but it still will be a very difficult challenge at best.

PS, I think this is a worth while topic, thanks for posting.
 
08/08/2017 06:29PM  
quote LindenTree3: "FYI: My very fit fire crew and I have carried a number of injured and one dead person off various mountains during my career as a wildland firefighter.
It takes a minimum of 6-10 people using a Ked Board to carry a 170+ pound person off a mountain. The last 2-4 people have to bump ahead from the rear to the front, then you just pass the litter forward, between people.


If anyone thinks they are going to carry deceased person very far, they may be in for a real surprise. Granted it would be easier on a level portage than the mountains, but it still will be a very difficult challenge at best.


PS, I think this is a worth while topic, thanks for posting."




Yeah, that's how they taught in wfr classes.
 
hobbydog
distinguished member(1973)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 09:11PM  
I am ok with my body being left for the wolves, eagles and ravens.
 
08/08/2017 09:14PM  
If the deceased is at a campsite and you need to paddle out to find help, be sure to leave a single bag visible so people paddling by know the site is taken.
 
SaganagaJoe
distinguished member(2113)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/08/2017 09:17PM  
Frankly - if I was going to go, I'd want to be in the BWCA. In a perfect world, I'd get up in the morning, enjoy a good pancake breakfast, hit up the walleyes, come back in camp with those I love, have a campfire with some coffee and music, see the Milky Way and northern lights, go to bed, and wake up in heaven.

As far as the OP's question, it would depend on how many of us were out there. If with a big group, I'd shuffle gear around the canoes and get out as quickly as I could. If by myself, I guess I'd leave him/her there and go for help.

 
andym
distinguished member(5340)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/08/2017 09:23PM  
Good point LindenTree. I've carried one altitude sick person down a mt. Fortunately it wasn't far to a road and we had a big group. It's not easy. And they could help hold onto us.

Personally, we have a plb and I would hope to hit it while they were still alive. But that isn't always possible.

If it doesn't work, we carry marine emergency whistles and hopefully could attract attention within a day or so.
 
jhb8426
distinguished member(1441)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 01:12AM  
A friend of mine was a leader on a boy scout trip to the bighorn mountains a number of years ago. The other leader died of a heart attack in the back country and the scouts had to carry him out on a lashed together stretcher.
 
dicecupmaker
distinguished member(2102)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 03:59AM  
Tie a big rock around my ankle and let me go look for some Lakers! My kids already have it in writing! My oldest son is in pre-med and we have already talked. Anderson's have dam good looking corpse!
 
08/09/2017 08:11AM  
quote unshavenman: "If the deceased is at a campsite and you need to paddle out to find help, be sure to leave a single bag visible so people paddling by know the site is taken."

LOL

How bad would it really be to sink the body in 50-100 ft of water? Assuming that's what the deceased person wanted. Would they send divers to retrieve?
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/09/2017 08:35AM  
quote hobbydog: "I am ok with my body being left for the wolves, eagles and ravens. "


A little bit of you in a tree. A bite in a wolf, raven, and eagle. Another bit in a raspberry bush. That's immortality.
 
08/09/2017 11:24AM  
quote jwartman59: "my experience....... this still bugs me."


No way should this bother you. IMHO, you did exactly the right thing.
 
billconner
distinguished member(8607)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/09/2017 02:10PM  
quote unshavenman: "If the deceased is at a campsite and you need to paddle out to find help, be sure to leave a single bag visible so people paddling by know the site is taken."

Should this be cross-posted in the thread on claiming sites?

Since I'm pretty sure on any of my trips I'm the most likely to die, I'm not the one needing a plan. I have had a spot for a long time so I guess that answers it in the end.
 
08/09/2017 06:13PM  
quote billconner: "
quote unshavenman: "If the deceased is at a campsite and you need to paddle out to find help, be sure to leave a single bag visible so people paddling by know the site is taken."

Should this be cross-posted in the thread on claiming sites?

Since I'm pretty sure on any of my trips I'm the most likely to die, I'm not the one needing a plan. I have had a spot for a long time so I guess that answers it in the end."

Yep, I was posting tongue in cheek with a nod to the other thread ;)
My buddy and I always tell each other that it will be down to the bottom of the presently occupied lake with the unfortunate other, and the winner keeps the dead man's gear.
In reality though, we travel with a SAT phone and a PLB, so if the dead man's gear is not nice enough and worth portaging out, help can be called.....
 
riverrunner
distinguished member(1733)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 07:27PM  
quote LindenTree3: "FYI: My very fit fire crew and I have carried a number of injured and one dead person off various mountains during my career as a wildland firefighter.
It takes a minimum of 6-10 people using a Ked Board to carry a 170+ pound person off a mountain. The last 2-4 people have to bump ahead from the rear to the front, then you just pass the litter forward, between people.


If anyone thinks they are going to carry deceased person very far, they may be in for a real surprise. Granted it would be easier on a level portage than the mountains, but it still will be a very difficult challenge at best.


PS, I think this is a worth while topic, thanks for posting."


We have moved some fairly big bears out of the woods with the old green military stretchers. for better than a mile. But it is fairly flat ground where we hunt but can be really thick brush.

Four guys one on each corner lift and go. Six makes it nicer as two can rest while four carry I seen it done with two guys but any thing over two hundred lbs is a real chore for two.

It is work for sure lift carry rest as needed.

In the BWCA it would be some home made contraption that most likely would not be as strong or have as good of handles on it.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 08:17PM  
quote LindenTree3: "FYI: My very fit fire crew and I have carried a number of injured and one dead person off various mountains during my career as a wildland firefighter.
It takes a minimum of 6-10 people using a Ked Board to carry a 170+ pound person off a mountain. The last 2-4 people have to bump ahead from the rear to the front, then you just pass the litter forward, between people.


If anyone thinks they are going to carry deceased person very far, they may be in for a real surprise. Granted it would be easier on a level portage than the mountains, but it still will be a very difficult challenge at best.


PS, I think this is a worth while topic, thanks for posting."


Good point, Lindy. No way could I lift dead weight of 170 lbs--being 170 lbs myself. Also, butthead's input on leaving the scene as is. It's kinda freaky though cuz of the bugs, creepy crawlers & meat eating scavengers. Glad to have lots of input here to process. Lots to think about......and some options I didn't consider before.

 
firemedic5586
distinguished member (190)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 09:39PM  
quote A1t2o: "
quote unshavenman: "If the deceased is at a campsite and you need to paddle out to find help, be sure to leave a single bag visible so people paddling by know the site is taken."

LOL


How bad would it really be to sink the body in 50-100 ft of water? Assuming that's what the deceased person wanted. Would they send divers to retrieve?"


If the water is cold enough and you can get them down past about 100ft, they will stay down there... No bloating or floating...

As for divers, depending depth and lake location, you could end up with a metric ass ton of gear to portage in for a recovery. Not to mention this would be a shore dive as one wouldn't be going over the side from a canoe, well I guess you could, but getting back in would be a bugger..
 
firemedic5586
distinguished member (190)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/09/2017 09:47PM  
Heck, prop your buddy up in the canoe and finish the trip... It seemed to work out for Bernie's friends.
 
08/10/2017 08:05AM  
quote firemedic5586: "Heck, prop your buddy up in the canoe and finish the trip... It seemed to work out for Bernie's friends. "


Is there some context to this?

NVM I found it.
 
Kobykat
senior member (58)senior membersenior member
  
08/10/2017 09:33AM  
quote firemedic5586: "Heck, prop your buddy up in the canoe and finish the trip... It seemed to work out for Bernie's friends. "


That's hilarious.
 
BuckFlicks
distinguished member(628)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/10/2017 12:41PM  
My goal is to die in the wilderness. Before I have to be put in a home or other long term care.

Leave me there - don't spend a lot of money extricating me, shipping me home and burying me in an expensive coffin and cemetery. I'll already be where I want my eternal rest to take place.

I generally only take trips with one other person. Hauling a carcass out of the wilderness wouldn't be an option. If I was in a very remote area, I'd move on immediately and get USFS (or other local agency) help. If I was in a high use area, I'd wait for someone to come by and get them to go for help.
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
08/10/2017 06:50PM  
Good goal, Buck.
 
Nomadmusky
senior member (97)senior membersenior member
  
08/10/2017 09:38PM  
@jwartman59

You did the right thing, I can't imagine having to make that decision, which quite frankly was; put yourself and your partners at risk of death as well, or get out and make a call for help.

If I were the frozen dead person, I'd hate to know or think anyone would risk their life to pick up my remains.

Nomad
 
paddlefamily
distinguished member(1635)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/11/2017 05:53PM  
quote Nomadmusky: "@jwartman59


You did the right thing, I can't imagine having to make that decision, which quite frankly was; put yourself and your partners at risk of death as well, or get out and make a call for help.


If I were the frozen dead person, I'd hate to know or think anyone would risk their life to pick up my remains.


Nomad"


+1 totally agree. I wouldn't take the risks considering the location or conditions as well.
 
      Print Top Bottom Previous Next
Listening Point - General Discussion Sponsor:
Canoe Country