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      Utterly off-topic: Do you challenge bad kids?     

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missmolly
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09/24/2017 07:04AM
So, I was driving up a hill yesterday with a double no-passing line and when I passed a bush, I happened to notice two kids hiding behind a bush. I watched in my rear view mirror and saw them toss a chunk of styrofoam about 30 inches across and six inches thick into the path of a car, forcing it to swerve, and then retrieve it with a string. I went back and told them they were playing "a dangerous game" and told them to stop, which they did, leaving the styrofoam in the road, which I retrieved, so they couldn't use it again.

When I was a kid, adults we didn't know didn't hesitate to police us. Some were too quick to do so, doing it for sport, but it did check our worst proclivities. Anyone else challenge kids you don't know when they're off the tracks?
 
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09/24/2017 08:10AM
The older I get, the quicker I am to jump on misbehavior. However, it is seldom kids that get me going, it's adults behaving like children. It is most often confronting adults with their filthy language used at public gatherings in front of my young grandkids.
missmolly
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09/24/2017 08:29AM
quote awbrown: "The older I get, the quicker I am to jump on misbehavior. However, it is seldom kids that get me going, it's adults behaving like children. It is most often confronting adults with their filthy language used at public gatherings in front of my young grandkids."

You have a blue whale's backbone and I'm glad you do!
mastertangler
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09/24/2017 09:01AM
I'm done with challenging bad behavior. I look back at some the not so gentle corrective measures I have done with adults who were doing dopy stuff and shake my head (what was I thinking). In this day and age your likely to get shot for even saying "um, excuse me".

Lots of kids don't have much respect anymore for adults. When I was a kid if an adult said they were going to have to talk with my Dad that was like the end of the world.

But kids are kids.........we used to throw snowballs at cars until we got caught.
mutz
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09/24/2017 09:45AM
If they aren't my kids or grandkids I don't think I have any authority or right to discipline them, and if they are my kids or grandkids unless it's the police, a teacher, or someone designated to supervise them no one else has any right to discipline them.
09/24/2017 10:12AM
quote mutz: " unless it's the police, a teacher, or someone designated to supervise them no one else has any right to discipline them. "

Not sure what you mean by discipline, but if I see your-or anyone else's- kids throwing eggs at a car, picking on a younger/smaller kid, etc. I am going to say something to them. Maybe because I am a teacher I am used to doing this at school, but it also extends to the "real" world. In my opinion, taking a stand matters.

Frankly, I believe the same holds for adults. My wife recently was at the library and witnessed a man ranting at a Muslim woman that she did not belong in the US and should go home. If I had seen that, I would have gotten in that guy's grill, and I also would have called the police.
09/24/2017 10:19AM
I was treating my grandsons, age 13 and 11, to lunch in a local cafe in the small farm town they live near. There were two old farmers at the table next to us who were carrying on a colorful conversation about the "younger generation" and how terrible they were these days.

After the two old guys left, I reminded my grandsons that this is the same conversation that every old coot has had since humans were living in caves.

“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”......Socrates

MrBadExample
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09/24/2017 10:33AM
We used to pull pranks similar to that when we were kids. We did it a little different though.

Here was our plan.....

We had an old cooler. We would drive around until we found a nice road kill raccoon. The raccoon was placed inside the cooler. I grew up in a cabin/lake area. The bars would be packed in the summer. We would take the cooler and leave it in the middle of the bar parking lot. From a safe distance we would wait for someone to steal the cooler. At this point most folks would load it in their vehicle and head home with what they thought was a free cooler of beer.

Some of them waited until they got home to open them. Others simply couldn't wait and would go to grab a cold brew for the ride home. It was hilarious when they finally opened that cooler and realize they had been had. The brake lights would turn cherry red and the car would screech to a halt. We would pull up next to them and laugh. Some guys got really mad at us. But, they were the ones truly in the wrong. We got to have our fun and some unsuspecting thieves hopefully learned their lesson.

Kids need to get more creative.

BWPaddler
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09/24/2017 11:15AM
First of all - I no longer use the term "bad kids". Raising three kids with disabilities has changed my viewpoint a lot, and re-framed how I see many behaviors that I might have previously seen as pure "brat" or "naughty", etc.

That said, the incident you witnessed was likely not disability-related, but youth-related. They likely had NO IDEA how dangerous that kind of stunt could be or what tragic outcome was possible. So I am very glad you informed them and stopped them!

I have no problem telling teens I don't want to hear their language, or that vaping is illegal under age 18. Maybe I'm just "lucky", but I don't often see anything more offensive than that from kids that I'm not parenting. Mostly, I try to build positive relationships with kids and influence them that way.
missmolly
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09/24/2017 12:29PM
quote BWPaddler: "First of all - I no longer use the term "bad kids". Raising three kids with disabilities has changed my viewpoint a lot, and re-framed how I see many behaviors that I might have previously seen as pure "brat" or "naughty", etc.


That said, the incident you witnessed was likely not disability-related, but youth-related. They likely had NO IDEA how dangerous that kind of stunt could be or what tragic outcome was possible. So I am very glad you informed them and stopped them!


I have no problem telling teens I don't want to hear their language, or that vaping is illegal under age 18. Maybe I'm just "lucky", but I don't often see anything more offensive than that from kids that I'm not parenting. Mostly, I try to build positive relationships with kids and influence them that way."


I too build positive relationships with kids, so it's good to know I've got a + sister + out there! However, the older I get, the more I tip toward plants. They don't take the same energy.
09/24/2017 12:36PM
quote BWPaddler: "First of all - I no longer use the term "bad kids". Raising three kids with disabilities has changed my viewpoint a lot, and re-framed how I see many behaviors that I might have previously seen as pure "brat" or "naughty", etc.


That said, the incident you witnessed was likely not disability-related, but youth-related. They likely had NO IDEA how dangerous that kind of stunt could be or what tragic outcome was possible. So I am very glad you informed them and stopped them!


I have no problem telling teens I don't want to hear their language, or that vaping is illegal under age 18. Maybe I'm just "lucky", but I don't often see anything more offensive than that from kids that I'm not parenting. Mostly, I try to build positive relationships with kids and influence them that way."


Great call on the "bad kids" label! Also, a few years back, I started a book club for boys in our neighborhood (I have 3 daughters within a 32 month spread; I needed some dudes in my world over the summer when I am on vacation!). Some of the kids who participated were kids who did not always make the right choices. In addition to reading, we paddled, went fishing, hiking, camping, made regular visits to DQ, etc.

You NAILED it when you said building positive relationships! Great post!!
Savage Voyageur
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09/24/2017 04:37PM
Hey you kids...get off my lawn.
09/24/2017 05:15PM
quote Savage Voyageur: "Hey you kids...get off my lawn. "

Funny!
09/24/2017 05:48PM
We did fun stuff too. shot a grouse and my older cousin pulled the breast out and propped it up with wire on our roadside. Pretty soon an older guy with a kid about my age (about 12) came a long and it was hilarious listening to the older guy telling the kid how to approach it and all. Boom, and boy was the old guy mad when he saw what it was. they took feathers and such. We were too scared to come out of hiding.
Boy, lots of us could write volumes. But it was guidance from many different sources are what eventually molded kids like me. My parents did well, but when your out away from them other adults stepped in. Never too harsh, but a little guidance.
So in saying anything a person has to remember where they were at that age. Patience and like Miss Molly, explain what could happen.
BWPaddler is a good source of info on this. Very few kids really are ever "bad". You just work with em. Living next to the beach I've talked to a lot of kids. Always respectful to me because I was to them.
BWPaddler
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09/24/2017 09:48PM
quote Frenchy19: "... I started a book club for boys in our neighborhood (I have 3 daughters within a 32 month spread; I needed some dudes in my world over the summer when I am on vacation!). Some of the kids who participated were kids who did not always make the right choices. In addition to reading, we paddled, went fishing, hiking, camping, made regular visits to DQ, etc.

You NAILED it when you said building positive relationships! Great post!!"


Got any book clubs starting any time soon? Good for you! I figure the more possibly allies/role models a kid has, the better.

And YES - missmolly - I sometimes long to return the luxury of caring for houseplants and not these creatures that demand so much of me (dog included!). But I remind myself that I will miss it when they are gone... or at least some of it, lol.
nofish
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09/25/2017 08:42AM
I've spoken up when I see kids doing something dangerous. In the case of the OP what they were doing was dangerous and needed to be stopped. I've also seen kids that were doing some normal dumb kid stuff but I saw no real danger in it so I didn't say anything.

I know I did a lot of dumb stuff as a kid and kids these days should be allowed to do their fair share of dumb stuff provided you don't see them doing something clearly dangerous.

I think all teenagers go through a phase of throwing stuff into traffic. Styrofoam, snowballs, etc. Me and my friends used ketchup packets. My friend for some reason had a full box of the ketchup packets you get at fast food joints. We'd toss them out in the road and wait for cars to hit them and then we'd cheer like mad when a white car ended up getting sprayed with ketchup. It was dumb, not very nice, but also not dangerous.
mastertangler
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09/25/2017 08:48AM
Speaking of dangerous teen behavior. If I spot a teen or young person off smoking a cigarette and they are by themselves or perhaps with another friend who is also smoking and I happen to be walking by, I have a pet line which I use to engage them > "you know, your to smart for that"

I have never ever had a negative reaction using this tack. Mostly they just shrug their shoulders and sheepishly admit that "they know". Once in a while they want to talk it out and I lend a sympathetic ear. But in the end I leave them with "cigarettes are not your friend".
pswith5
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09/25/2017 09:30AM
Yeah, I will say something. But I worry I will be condemned by someone's parents. And I sound like I am lecturing, even to my eats.
JimmyJustice
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09/25/2017 02:09PM
Interesting question. FWIW, my take is...it depends. I suspect the great unknown in each situation will be 1) the ability of the two yutes to appreciate the nature of their offense and 2) the tone the adult uses to impart corrective advise.

By in large, the event you describe, in my mind, is not all that offensive. By in large, because I did the same thing (except with wrenches or shovels)...and much worse (all to remain denied by me). And at some point on the spectrum we may collectively agree the behavior warrants some action, but there is a lot in between that we all might have a different take on. That said, had I been caught during of my youthful escapades, three things would have happened. 1) I would have been mad at myself for getting caught, 2) remorseful for what I did and 3) a punishment would have been served. Thankfully I did not get caught much :).

I now have kids in this age bracket (so its a do as I say, not as I did thing). So far, thanks to their mom, they are outstanding kids. Time will tell if my anti-establishment gene or my susceptibility to occasional brain farts will ever affect them. If that happens, you have my permission to correct their behavior.

I you ever see any of my kids misbehaving, I am ok with a polite..."Hey, did you think this through? It looks fun but is probably not what your parents would expect from you"

If you happen to see them step on a flag by accident, don't yell, just remind them the proper way to dispose of it.

If you catch them drinking under age, make them confess their offense to the powers that be and if they loose a scholarship as a result...good lesson.

If you see them shoot at windows with a BB-gun, make them pay up...good lesson.

If they roll the loaner car because they were thinking about a kiss they just stole from a sweetheart...make them tell the car dealer and pay up...good lesson.

If however, you freak out and yell at my kids for unknowingly standing on a rock out of turn at the Grand Canon, I will get between you and your words will be with me.

I have preached to my kids as much as I can about stepping up to defend others who cannot. I will take to my grave the disappointment I still have with myself for not acting on a friends behalf when I was 16. If they can master that obligation, I will be much more tolerant of the occasional misstep.

scat
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09/25/2017 02:47PM
I could tell you stories for pages of the stuff we used to do. I'm serious. One of my favs was the time we egged the tennis courts. Had like five guys with three dozen eggs and launched on the unsuspecting players. One guy in his tennis shorts and polo shirt came out of the fence and yelled something. He was greeted with five middle fingers, insults, and a shower of shells. It still makes me laugh. Sorry about that. I have a soft spot for rascal kids. I've coached a few and was able to connect in a positive way in some instances.
The closest we did to your example was two players would be on both sides of the street when a car came up. We would lean back like we were holding a rope across the road tight. If the car passed without stopping, we would fall back, like the imaginary rope was broken. Only a couple times an older person would get out and yell at us. Mission accomplished. I think now that is what we were seeking. That was child's play, so to speak.
Honestly, sometimes when sitting at a stoplight in traffic or in idle thought, I think about all the crazy stuff we used to do, and it makes me smile. And wonder why we did it.
As always, cheers, scat
mastertangler
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09/25/2017 05:45PM
Whoa Scat! Egging folks and tennis players to boot! Yolk stains on whites can be very difficult to get out! If you have unexplained stains coming out of your washing machine, well, just sayin.

We used to take a Q-Beam spotlight and play "police". Pull up behind a car in a residential neighborhood and "pull them over" so to speak. The sheep in the suburbs were quick to comply. Good thing we never pulled over a "good old boy" as we might have learned a lesson the hard way.
09/25/2017 06:52PM
Sometimes I'll stop and police the kids.
Jeriatric
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09/25/2017 08:09PM
I remember when I read about 3 young people who had been swept over Vernal Falls in Yosemite. Instantly, I thought, "Where were the adults?"
The deceased had to climb over a metal fence while ignoring posted signs meant to stop them. Apparently, one witness had yelled at another person who was violating the prohibition against crossing the barrier just minutes before the triple disaster. That idiot returned to safety.

I am guessing there had been several adults present at the tragedy. The best thing would be for all adults to assume that they are the only ones who will speak out and to do so. I think we fall into a trap of thinking that other grown-up people, parents, guardians or chaperones will take action. Sometimes we need to act instantly and not worry about the niceties of waiting for the most appropriate person to say something.
Looking back, sometimes I am surprised that I lived to reach adulthood. Young people will benefit from all the help they can get.
Tragedy
Canoearoo
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09/25/2017 09:46PM
I've made kids stop throwing rocks at a playground and their parents were not pleased. I told them their kids can not throw rocks or they would be sued when someone was injured. They did not care.
prettypaddle
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09/26/2017 11:22AM
quote JimmyJustice: "
I you ever see any of my kids misbehaving, I am ok with a polite..."Hey, did you think this through? It looks fun but is probably not what your parents would expect from you"
"


I'm going to steal this line. Love it.

I've only intervened one time. I was riding my bike and saw about 10 middle school aged kids on the sidewalk. One boy pushed another boy a couple of times. The kid that got pushed was just standing there hanging his head. Then the bully slapped the boy on the face. Some of the kids standing around were laughing. So I got off my bike and asked what was going on. The bully said something like, "Nothing, we're all just friends here." I said that I saw him slap the other boy and that friends don't hit each other. The bully said they were just playing then he took a hold of the other kids face and gave it a couple of pats. The whole time the kid that had been slapped was just standing there with his head down. Some of the other kids standing there had the grace to look embarrassed. So I asked if I could walk home with him. In retrospect, probably a hugely embarrassing thing for him, but I just didn't know what else to do. The kid said no. I think I said to the bully something like, "What would your mother say if she saw you?" and rode off.

I still think about that kid and wonder what I could have done differently to be more of a help. Hopefully at least the other kids there realized that if a massively pregnant lady can stand up to the bully and say that's not right, then they can too.
riverrunner
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09/26/2017 12:01PM
Just don't try it is some inter city neighborhoods certain people don't take kindly to it.
mastertangler
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09/26/2017 12:22PM
quote riverrunner: "Just don't try it is some inter city neighborhoods certain people don't take kindly to it."

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but you are likely going to take plenty of incoming, and probably deservedly so. I don't dispute the statement but it can be applied to plenty of other "groups" of folks as well. Why single out inner city kids? Last I checked the vast majority of kids at Berkley are rather a privileged ($) group and a good chunk of them don't like to hear certain views as well.............. and as you so eloquently state "they don't take kindly to it".
mastertangler
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09/26/2017 12:36PM
Pretty paddle the whole bully thing rang a bell with me. I remember a bigger kid who was always bullying other kids. I never got it but it was continuous. Then, walking home from school one day (5 miles, in the rain, uphill both ways etc. etc ;-) I watched as the bully started picking on a kid which was probably 1/2 his size.

That little kid jumped on the bully, grabbed his hair and pulled him to the ground. He kept pulling that hair and ended up on top of the bully with two fistfuls of hair. I will never forget that bully crying pathetically asking someone, anyone, to help him. I got to witness the entire thing........I don't remember seeing the bully after that.

What does that have to do with challenging bad kids? I dunno, maybe a little bit of pain can go a long way towards not having bad kids in the first place. Just sayin.
missmolly
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09/26/2017 05:13PM
quote riverrunner: "Just don't try it is some inter city neighborhoods certain people don't take kindly to it."

I've worked with poor red (a reservation), white (Appalachia), and black (Roxbury back in the bad ol' days) kids in their impoverished neighbors. I didn't discern much difference between the kids, their parents, and their community dynamics.
scat
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09/26/2017 06:40PM
If a kid's a bully, punch him right in the face. Doesn't matter how big you are. Works almost every time. And even if it backfires, and you take a lump or two, you still gain respect. And get a little smarter every time.
Probably some pretty dated advice. Wouldn't fly today. I don't know. It was a lot of fun growing up in the '60/70s. Oh well, I still have my memories...
Like I said, I kind of have a soft spot for rascal kids. I remember a few times when my mom advised me that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Did you ever see the movie Bad Grandpa at the end at the talent contest and the boy dressed as a girl does the pole dance and the whole crowd is aghast and abhorred but there is one guy in the crowd who is chuckling the whole time, finding it highly amusing. That would be me.
Cheers, scat
missmolly
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09/26/2017 08:43PM
Scat, I taught naughty boys for 25 years, so I loved them too. A few were psychopaths who went on to murder and rape, but most were rascals.
scat
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09/26/2017 08:51PM
Rascals being a rung or two under rapists and murderers you mean. Maybe three, or four even. If it's a five step ladder, I think I can live with that.
Don't know if you've ever seen the movie Bad Grandpa, but I highly recommend it. Watching it now. I have it recorded. Hilarious. Bad Santa isn't bad either. Sometimes bad is good.
mc2mens
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09/27/2017 08:02AM
Yes - I have challenged misguided and misbehaving kids. Like others have stated, I don't believe kids are inherently bad. But there are kids who haven't been raised to respect others and see that their actions have consequences. Usually it's enough to make them aware of what they've done or said.
Canoearoo
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09/27/2017 03:40PM
When I was 5 I lived in a neighborhood with a big bully. He was a teen and beat little kids to the point that the police were called. One day he picked a fight with the wrong kid and that kid in defence pushed the bully into the street and the bully was hit by a car. They took him away in an ambulance and we never saw him again. The neighborhood was much nicer after that, but I always wonder now what happened to him.
mc2mens
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09/27/2017 04:21PM
I hate bullies. When I was in Jr. High, a kid 2 grades older than me started pushing me around in the locker room. That kid picked a fight with the wrong kid (I grew up with several brothers and we fought and wrestled often). I pummeled him. Never heard from him again.

When my kid was in 3rd grade, he was being bullied by a 6th grader. One day, my son and I were playing hockey on the neighborhood rink and the bully showed up. He didn't see me and he started in on my kid, half his size. I skated over and told him if he ever bullied my kid again, or any other kid for that matter, I'd be paying his old man a visit. He never bullied my kid again. Later, I learned that his old man was put in prison for domestic abuse. No wonder this kid was a bully.
scat
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09/27/2017 07:29PM
Perfect examples. In many ways.
riverrunner
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09/28/2017 08:22AM
quote missmolly: "quote riverrunner: "Just don't try it is some inter city neighborhoods certain people don't take kindly to it."


I've worked with poor red (a reservation), white (Appalachia), and black (Roxbury back in the bad ol' days) kids in their impoverished neighbors. I didn't discern much difference between the kids, their parents, and their community dynamics. "


I worked on many reservations they have some of the highest crime rates in the country. The attitudes that it is not our fault and to blame others abounds.

It didn't take long to know who would be the life long criminals and out who would make something of themselves.

Of course one can find examples going both ways if one looks long enough.
Basspro69
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09/28/2017 08:29AM
I just open hand slap them :-)
 
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