ISABELLA, Minn. — Justin Bailey of Keewatin was hunting ruffed grouse near Isabella on Tuesday morning when a wolf chased his hunting dog out of the woods.

“He was coming at me 100 miles per hour, and right behind him was a wolf, biting at his heels,” said Bailey, 33. “They probably passed five or six feet from us.”

Bailey was standing at the edge of the road with his son, Andrew Bailey, 3, and his nephew, Brock Bjelland, 5, of Marble, whom he had brought along for the day of hunting.

The wolf chased the dog, Henry, a 1-year-old German wire-haired pointer, back to Bailey’s pickup in the road, he said.

“The dog jumped in the window of the truck, and the wolf did a quick lap around the truck,” Bailey said.

That’s when Bailey noticed two more wolves coming out of the woods at the edge of the road. Three more came out about 100 yards down the road, Bailey said.
“I think we saw six total,” he said. “I was yelling at the one that went around the truck. He wasn’t very timid, that’s for sure. He was 15 feet from the truck and turned around and watched me put the kids in the truck.”

During the encounter, Bailey fired one round from his 20-gauge shotgun into the air in an effort to scare off the wolves.

“They didn’t even flinch,” he said.

His dog was not injured, Bailey said.

The incident occurred about 11 a.m. Tuesday about four miles from Isabella, he said. Bailey’s nephew had seen a grouse at the edge of the road run into the woods. Bailey pulled his truck over and let Henry out.

“I sent him into the woods to find the bird,” he said. “He did one pass in there and got on point. I was on the road… He had the bird pinned down (pointed). Then he made this awful screech — it was like a cross between a yip and a cry. He must have been about 30 yards away.”

That’s when Henry came charging out of the woods with the wolf nipping at his hind legs. Bailey said the wolves “looked pretty healthy.”

“They’re starting to put on their winter coats,” he said.

Bailey said he never thought about shooting at any of the wolves.

“I played it back in my head,” he said. “Yes, I would have shot at the wolves because the kids were there, but it happened so fast it didn’t even cross my mind.”

In Minnesota, gray wolves were most recently classified as endangered under the federal Endangered Species Act as of December 2014. Wolves may be not be killed except in defense of human life.

Bailey and the boys continued to hunt during the afternoon in an area about 10 miles from where they had encountered the wolves. Bailey shot one grouse. The boys seemed to find the wolf encounter fascinating, he said.

“They thought it was the coolest experience in the north woods,” he said. “They were seeing all kinds of wolves all day long.”

The encounter has made Bailey rethink hunting grouse with Henry.

“It makes me not want to bring my dog in the woods anymore,” he said. “It makes you think twice.”

Henry apparently had made up his own mind after the incident.

“The dog refused to leave the truck,” Bailey said. “I couldn’t get him out of the truck the rest of the day.”

I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?

quote Frenchy19: "

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?"

Yeah, I've got some stats:

Tobacco kills more than 5,000 Minnesotans each year.

Obesity kills about 300,000 Americans each year.

About 10,000 Americans are killed each year by drunk drivers.

About 88,000 Americans die each year from alcoholism.

On average, 91 Americans die each day from opioids.

100 Americans die each year from bee stings.

Vending machines kill four to six times more Americans than sharks.

Link
This is a thread on bwca.com about an Ely woman being chased into her house by a pack of wolves. Yes in Ely on Shagawa Lake. A woman in Alaska was Killed by wolves, A boy in Minnesota was attacked by wolves a few years back. All I am saying be aware. Shoot one and you will be charged with a felony even if it kills your dog.

This is nothing new, wolves have been killing pets for years.

I have no problems with a few wolf, but be aware they are killing machines. An unarmed person would have no chance with a pack of wolves, trust me I have been around they all my life.

Just like with bears friendly furry forests creatures until they are not.

Wisconsin is having record year for dogs killed by wolves.

How people forget thousands of years of interaction with large carnivores.

The real headline here should be "Wild Pack of Wolves Pass Within 6 Feet of Dad and Kids While Chasing Dog - Totally Ignore Humans."

What's the big deal? Send a domesticated animal out into the range of apex predators, then when the predators see the pet and try to eat it you say there is something wrong going on?

Have never been able to understand people who choose to live in or visit wild lands who are unwilling to accept what that wild environment is all about.

Can't handle what the place is all about? Don't live or go there.

Never can understand people deigning the truth about things.

Hmmm, had Mr Wolf come after my dog I would of been the apex predator and blasted Mr Wolf into next week and any accomplices should they decide to stick around. Hey, if they can't handle it they should find somewhere else to live. Two can play "this land is my land" game and if you don't like it then leave.

I always wonder about the naysayers and how their attitude would change if it were their dog or their loved one which was killed or injured. Might be singing a little different tune.

quote gkimball: "
Have never been able to understand people who choose to live in or visit wild lands who are unwilling to accept what that wild environment is all about.
."

Well stated gkimball,
Coming from a retired US Fish and Wildlife Service employee who lived in Isabella for 3 years, and has spent the last 3 years in Alaska.

Sorry to some here but I will guarantee that if a wolf chases my dog I will be practicing the three s's+, shoot, shovel, shut up, reload. My dog goes home sleeping in the back seat.

quote riverrunner: "

Henry apparently had made up his own mind after the incident.

“The dog refused to leave the truck,” Bailey said. “I couldn’t get him out of the truck the rest of the day.”
"

This quote made me laugh. This is a smart dog.

quote mutz: "Sorry to some here but I will guarantee that if a wolf chases my dog I will be practicing the three s's+, shoot, shovel, shut up, reload. My dog goes home sleeping in the back seat."

+1 - I'd have no problem killing a wolf if it was attacking my dog. Nobody is going to come investigating a couple gun shots on a grouse trail. Also, how is anyone going to prove it wasn't charging at you when you shot it. I wouldn't lose sleep over it either.

My opinion:
I think JB handled the incident correctly.
He had a loaded firearm.
He kept his cool.
He obeyed the laws and regs.
No wild shots, no undue damage.

quote Frenchy19: "

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?"

What difference would it make to you?

quote jcavenagh: "My opinion:
I think JB handled the incident correctly.
He had a loaded firearm.
He kept his cool.
He obeyed the laws and regs.
No wild shots, no undue damage.
"

Indeed this thought occurred to me a bit later as well. What if he had fired on the wolf instinctively and, God forbid, hit a bystander? Or less serious I suppose would of been to hit his truck or even hit his own dog.

On the other hand I think the dog basically got lucky. Who leaves their windows down. Um, that would be nobody. Had the dog been caught it would of been a very ugly scene to watch as the dog is dismantled. Not a pretty picture and the sounds associated might lead to some very troubling dreams to the younger folk.

It is disturbing that the wolves basically ignored the human presence. That is abnormal behavior and a clear indicator that something is very much amiss.

I live in wolf country, like wolves, and own/hunt with a dog. If a wolf came after my dog, I guarantee that I would shoot at it without any guilt.

That said, I don't much support wolf hunting, but do think they should be delisted from the Endangered Species Act, as they have not really been endangered in Minnesota in over 30 years.

Also, a wolf attack on a human in North America (it's a different story in Eurasia, historically) would be such a freakishly rare event, that it barely deserves a comment.

quote jcavenagh: "My opinion:
I think JB handled the incident correctly.
He had a loaded firearm.
He kept his cool.
He obeyed the laws and regs.
No wild shots, no undue damage.
"

Yep, ol' JB was a cool cat with that canine.

Hey! Lookee here..Me, MM, AND MT all agree.
I like these regular open threads.
"Follow me. Follow me. That's good, that's good! A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat!"...
Saaaaaay no more!
:)

Yup pretty good story, best possible outcome.
Level head and a quick k9

wolves enjoy the chase, so the fact that the dog was fleeing and they were chasing is what they were concentrating on. could be the humans were standing still during the chase so the wolves didn't see them.
also, the dog was unharmed as it was not attacked, just chased, so i'd think the subject line could be worded differently.

at some point the human race will take over all available space on this planet and there will be no wildlife or wild spaces.

quote Mocha: "at some point the human race will take over all available space on this planet and there will be no wildlife or wild spaces. "

What about discos? :)

It was mentioned above that Wisconsin has had a lot of wolf killed dogs. Most of these were dogs used to chase and tree bear in the woods and the dogs hunted in a pack. In this case wolves would rightly think another pack invaded their territory and I fully understand the wolves action 100%.

I do a lot of grouse hunting in the Isabella area and I never seen anywhere else so many bear bait stations by guides-outfitters and individuals(I know many years the closeness of baits the guides got in verbal altercations with each other and MN.DNR CO's had to referee). What I am trying to say wolves are quite often pulled to these bait sites which are by a logging road etc.. A area also grouse hunters like to use and walk a dog. I could see a dog disturbs wolves on a bait pile they would react maybe more aggressive than norm.

If I was hunting with a dog,if my dog was physically attacked and fighting a wolf,yes I would shoot the wolf at last resort only.
I would make darn sure he was attacking my dog or eminent danger was very strong. If you shot a wolf that actually attacked your dog,and if you shot the wolf and reported to the MN.DNR CO's they would question you and that would be the end of it. If you shot a wolf and didn't report it consequences could be worse.

Also you are out in nature and if a wolf killed my dog,I would be darn mad and upset,but if it was after the fact I would not later go after that wolf. As mentioned we are invading their natural area and we do have to assume some risk.

Yes it is time to remove and manage the wolf population conservatively with a season,if possible by hunting in areas where they have become too unafraid of humans and dogs.
The number of license should be about what was issued before. AS mentioned at another site about 60% plus that were harvested last time were that years spring pups and 1.5 year olds(those age classes lose close to 50% naturally)

Wolves belong in Minnesota in a viable numbers but they also should be made to fear humans for their own sake and yes ours. Also in a number that will give deer and moose a little more footing with slightly higher numbers.

quote jcavenagh: "Hey! Lookee here..Me, MM, AND MT all agree.
I like these regular open threads.
"Follow me. Follow me. That's good, that's good! A nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat!"...
Saaaaaay no more!
:) "

Dang it. It is prophesied that when we three agree, the world ends.

quote Pinetree: "It was mentioned above that Wisconsin has had a lot of wolf killed dogs. Most of these were dogs used to chase and tree bear in the woods and the dogs hunted in a pack. In this case wolves would rightly think another pack invaded their territory and I fully understand the wolves action 100%.


I do a lot of grouse hunting in the Isabella area and I never seen anywhere else so many bear bait stations by guides-outfitters and individuals(I know many years the closeness of baits the guides got in verbal altercations with each other and MN.DNR CO's had to referee). What I am trying to say wolves are quite often pulled to these bait sites which are by a logging road etc.. A area also grouse hunters like to use and walk a dog. I could see a dog disturbs wolves on a bait pile they would react maybe more aggressive than norm.


If I was hunting with a dog,if my dog was physically attacked and fighting a wolf,yes I would shoot the wolf at last resort only.
I would make darn sure he was attacking my dog or eminent danger was very strong. If you shot a wolf that actually attacked your dog,and if you shot the wolf and reported to the MN.DNR CO's they would question you and that would be the end of it. If you shot a wolf and didn't report it consequences could be worse.


Also you are out in nature and if a wolf killed my dog,I would be darn mad and upset,but if it was after the fact I would not later go after that wolf. As mentioned we are invading their natural area and we do have to assume some risk.


Yes it is time to remove and manage the wolf population conservatively with a season,if possible by hunting in areas where they have become too unafraid of humans and dogs.
The number of license should be about what was issued before. AS mentioned at another site about 60% plus that were harvested last time were that years spring pups and 1.5 year olds(those age classes lose close to 50% naturally)


Wolves belong in Minnesota in a viable numbers but they also should be made to fear humans for their own sake and yes ours. Also in a number that will give deer and moose a little more footing with slightly higher numbers.



"

Speaking of level heads, here's another.

Pinetree for crying out loud.........talk about human reasoning being applied to animals, give me a break. About the only thing I wholeheartedly agreed with is that we ought to open up a season.

Trying to "explain away" and give the wolves excuses for being wolves is sort of lame at best. Bait piles etc. etc,.........nope, wolves are going to kill their competition and that includes coyotes, fox and any other canines including dogs.

And by all means lets self report that we shot a wolf because it was molesting my dog. Good luck with that. When is visiting hours? You would probably get less time for robbing a jewelry store.

The math is fairly simple. As wolf populations climb then moose and deer populations decline. As wolf populations climb pet populations decline. Not a big fan of high populations of coyote or wolves.

Pine tree with wolves being on the endangered list it would be a federal officer that would make the decision if to prosecute or not.

quote riverrunner: "Pine tree with wolves being on the endangered list it would be a federal officer that would make the decision if to prosecute or not. "

Correct they would have the final say and I was going to mention them. Usually they will confer with each other.

quote mastertangler: "Pinetree for crying out loud.........talk about human reasoning being applied to animals, give me a break. About the only thing I wholeheartedly agreed with is that we ought to open up a season.


Trying to "explain away" and give the wolves excuses for being wolves is sort of lame at best. Bait piles etc. etc,.........nope, wolves are going to kill their competition and that includes coyotes, fox and any other canines including dogs.


And by all means lets self report that we shot a wolf because it was molesting my dog. Good luck with that. When is visiting hours? You would probably get less time for robbing a jewelry store.


The math is fairly simple. As wolf populations climb then moose and deer populations decline. As wolf populations climb pet populations decline. Not a big fan of high populations of coyote or wolves. "

The bait station I just mentioned because it does attract wolves to the vicinity where grouse hunters are present and many bear hunters tell of like a half dozen wolves coming to his pile while sitting on stand.
Yes,wolves kill coyotes. Where I hunt by Longville coyotes were very abundant until about 1990 when a permanent wolf pack moved into the area. Use to hear coyotes howl in the evening -no more.

Also mentioned if I shot a wolf that was attacking my dog. Yes various times somebody like a hunter did shoot the wolf. Examples and I can quote more if someone wants. Wolf-dog-grouse hunter

Also I talked about moderate populations of wolves,they do belong in nature. I also like seeing their track,seeing them and hearing them. Yes I also like deer hunting.

OK.......I'm with you Pinetree. I like seeing wolf tracks as well ;-)

And I love hearing them. It is the ultimate Call of the Wild. Hey, that's a great name for a book! I think I'll write it.

Its mazes me still with how they make films.

while a beautifully made touchy-feeling video, it's a total misrepresentation of reality. does a total disservice to the wolf and humans to portray this situation with a positive ending.

Bellow is a link to a youtube video I made and posted a few years back of a moose killed by wolves. It was 6 miles south of Isabella, closer to Murphy city than Finland. I think the kill was a few days old. However it had snow 3 inches that night and fresh track were everywhere. The wolves were feeding when we found the kill at 10 am. In fact we followed the tracks to the kill. I saw more then a dozen different wolves in a matter of minutes.

The video is short I didn't want to hangout long.
youtube-video

quote Mocha: "while a beautifully made touchy-feeling video, it's a total misrepresentation of reality. does a total disservice to the wolf and humans to portray this situation with a positive ending."

It must be true, Mocha, its on the internet! ;)

oh, so true! the "interweb" weaves tall tales

quote Mocha: "while a beautifully made touchy-feeling video, it's a total misrepresentation of reality. does a total disservice to the wolf and humans to portray this situation with a positive ending."

True

quote missmolly: "

quote Frenchy19: "

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?"

Yeah, I've got some stats:


Tobacco kills more than 5,000 Minnesotans each year.


Obesity kills about 300,000 Americans each year.


About 10,000 Americans are killed each year by drunk drivers.


About 88,000 Americans die each year from alcoholism.


On average, 91 Americans die each day from opioids.


100 Americans die each year from bee stings.


Vending machines kill four to six times more Americans than sharks.



"

What does any of this have to do with the possibility/likeliness of wolves attacking kids?

quote Yellowbird: "

quote Frenchy19: "

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?"

What difference would it make to you?"

If she could offer any stats supporting her concern that kids may be at risk of being attacked by wolves, it would lend validity to her statement. A wolf chasing a dog and a wolf going after a child are two different things. The former is not uncommon, the latter is. Hysteria helps nothing.

I remember fully 45 years ago when wolves first came back into the Cook area where I grew up, a farmer shot a wolf that came trotting out of the woods toward him seemingly fearless. He hung it in a tree on the side of the road. I remember going to see it with my dad, and seeing the maggots swarming out of its open mouth. The thinking was that because killing wolves was illegal, they'd lose all fear of humans, become very bold, and they'd overrun the area, killing dogs, kids, all the deer etc. It never happened. 45 years later. There is an incident now and then with dogs getting killed mostly, but a trend of "wolves getting bold"? I don't buy it.

quote Pinetree: " Its mazes me still with how they make films. "

Alrighty then we all know the guy dies and the wolves eat him but the craft of the film making is non the less rather amazing as per Pinetrees observation. They are getting very good at what they do. When I was watching it my first thought was "wow, that is starkly beautiful" and my second thought was "that guy is dead due to exposure". Ironic how something can be beautiful and deadly.

Marsonite I disagree with you concerning the fear factor. In the incident described in the thread the wolves paid zero attention to the nearby people while they chased the dog. That was because they had no fear. It is commonly accepted wisdom that once a species has protected status and are basically ignored that they DO come to understand that nothing will happen via interaction with humans and then they become emboldened. Coyotes come into suburbs, Mountain lions in California next to populated areas, bears etc. all are exhibiting a great tolerance of human presence. ...................You are probably correct however in pointing out that the worst case scenario, wolves taking small kids, has fortunately not played out. But plenty of pet owners and ranchers (particularly out west) are not so keen on high wolf / coyote populations which have little or no fear of humans.

quote Frenchy19: "

quote Yellowbird: "

quote Frenchy19: "

quote ellahallely: "I had a wolf chase a dog hunting last year about 10 miles from this spot. The wolves have become very bold. People in that live in the area keep a close on their pets. And a closer eye on their small children, it's just a matter of time!"

Just a matter of time? Care to share any stats to support this stance?"

What difference would it make to you?"

If she could offer any stats supporting her concern that kids may be at risk of being attacked by wolves, it would lend validity to her statement. A wolf chasing a dog and a wolf going after a child are two different things. The former is not uncommon, the latter is. Hysteria helps nothing."

Agreed, "Hysteria helps nothing". Likewise, it seems to me emotionalism what is keeping wolves on the federal endangered list. I believe it's been shown that level of protection is no longer necessary. Giving the states authority to manage local problems and populations makes sense. My point was that even the death of a child is not going to sway public opinion away from the perceived need of federal protection status.

I am not an advocate destroying any animal because of fear (hysteria - your word). I took your response to Ella as it being a mute point. I couldn't disagree more. I have a close relative who encountered a wolf making a stalk on his then young child. Enough said? I don't feel a need to pack a gun in wolf country, but it has given me a healthy respect for the potential of such an encounter.

If only these Fido killing beasts were more like the subservient well-mannered,
and complete with lovable names, tame dogs you all love to pay to see at the so-called "Wolf Center"...then we wouldn't have to endure or debate this tortuous primal behavior displayed by the free roaming variety! They'd simply pace back and forth, or lay on their straw, until some bleeding heart tosses 'em a road kill. Which way do you want it people?!?

If only these Fido killing beasts were more like the subservient well-mannered,
and complete with lovable names, tame dogs you all love to pay to see at the so-called "Wolf Center"...then we wouldn't have to endure or debate this tortuous primal behavior displayed by the free roaming variety! They'd simply pace back and forth, or lay on their straw, until some bleeding heart tosses 'em a road kill. Which way do you want it people?!?

quote mastertangler: "

quote Pinetree: " Its mazes me still with how they make films. "

Alrighty then we all know the guy dies and the wolves eat him but the craft of the film making is non the less rather amazing as per Pinetrees observation. They are getting very good at what they do. When I was watching it my first thought was "wow, that is starkly beautiful" and my second thought was "that guy is dead due to exposure". Ironic how something can be beautiful and deadly.


Marsonite I disagree with you concerning the fear factor. In the incident described in the thread the wolves paid zero attention to the nearby people while they chased the dog. That was because they had no fear. It is commonly accepted wisdom that once a species has protected status and are basically ignored that they DO come to understand that nothing will happen via interaction with humans and then they become emboldened. Coyotes come into suburbs, Mountain lions in California next to populated areas, bears etc. all are exhibiting a great tolerance of human presence. ...................You are probably correct however in pointing out that the worst case scenario, wolves taking small kids, has fortunately not played out. But plenty of pet owners and ranchers (particularly out west) are not so keen on high wolf / coyote populations which have little or no fear of humans. "

You seem to miss my point though. 45 years ago I heard the same warning about wolves losing their fear. If you have any actual data that shows that these incidents are increasing,in other words, a trend, I'd be very open to seeing it. All I have seen is random incidents going way back.

quote marsonite: "

quote mastertangler: "

quote Pinetree: " Its mazes me still with how they make films. "

Alrighty then we all know the guy dies and the wolves eat him but the craft of the film making is non the less rather amazing as per Pinetrees observation. They are getting very good at what they do. When I was watching it my first thought was "wow, that is starkly beautiful" and my second thought was "that guy is dead due to exposure". Ironic how something can be beautiful and deadly.



Marsonite I disagree with you concerning the fear factor. In the incident described in the thread the wolves paid zero attention to the nearby people while they chased the dog. That was because they had no fear. It is commonly accepted wisdom that once a species has protected status and are basically ignored that they DO come to understand that nothing will happen via interaction with humans and then they become emboldened. Coyotes come into suburbs, Mountain lions in California next to populated areas, bears etc. all are exhibiting a great tolerance of human presence. ...................You are probably correct however in pointing out that the worst case scenario, wolves taking small kids, has fortunately not played out. But plenty of pet owners and ranchers (particularly out west) are not so keen on high wolf / coyote populations which have little or no fear of humans. "

You seem to miss my point though. 45 years ago I heard the same warning about wolves losing their fear. If you have any actual data that shows that these incidents are increasing,in other words, a trend, I'd be very open to seeing it. All I have seen is random incidents going way back. "

There was a study done by Yellowstone park and in Alaska. conclusion was by harvesting the less timid animals that would by learned behavior pass on this trait behavior you would decrease animals that started to some extent associating almost no fear of humans. Now this is still a small but growing minority and I am not addressing them as being vicious towards humans at all here.
If your old like me back in 1969 before Endangered species act went into effect and for decades after,if a wolf track came across a human track they would most likely turn around. The much to low at that time of wolf population,those that survived were very shy and super wary.
Now I have seen various wolves and often they do run away immediately. But I have seen them grouse hunting at 20 yards and they stare and than walk away. Fernberg road about 3 years ago had one follow you like a dog pup at times. I could name many more but enough for now.

Wolves do learn from other wolves behavior patterns. Example-my Uncle east of Brainerd has well over a 100 black Angus cows. He has had at least a pack of wolves in his pasture or nearby for over 20 years-He has never lost a calf or cow to wolves. he has seen them actually almost walking in the cows. It does blow my mind you think once he would lose at least a calf.

I also no different locations wolves started feeding on certain cow herds in different areas and the learned behavior was taken up by the entire pack. I know of at least three instances Federal trappers at each site came in and killed the entire pack.

Just saying like all animals much is a learned behavior,yes even us. Who and where you have a fear factor.

That said as previous mentioned I like wolves and hope we maintain a Moderate population. But they do-at least some become almost domesticated.

You need actual quantifiable "data" Marsonite to prove that a species which is not hunted or trapped becomes more acclimated to humans and thus become less fearful? Alrighty then, moving right along............

quote mastertangler: "You need actual quantifiable "data" Marsonite to prove that a species which is not hunted or trapped becomes more acclimated to humans and thus become less fearful? Alrighty then, moving right along............"

Yes, after 45 years of listening to fearmongering from armchair biologists about "the wolves are killing all the deer" (only to go to record deer numbers in the early 2000's--explain that one), and now wolves are losing all fear and will soon be coming into our yards and snatching babies.....I've grown a bit skeptical. Never said that they wouldn't lose some wariness. Looking for a trend that the incidents as described in the OP are becoming more numerous.

Fair enough Marsonite, you made some good points...........Although the initial post describing a wolf chasing a dog around a pick up truck while human onlookers watched is rather illustrative don't ya think? Not so sure that would of happened 45 years ago or even 25 years ago. So the trend is towards a bolder and more aggressive wolf. That seems obvious to me.

As per deer numbers? Why be so selective? We can point out other areas where the predator / prey relationship has seen a substantial decline in prey species as the predators increased, again an obvious observation. The wolves are eating something. And that "something" may get depleted and then they will look for another source.

I am not an advocate for the elimination of wolves or coyotes. But I'm certainly not going to gloss over them as being inconsequential. Behavior is learned and passed on from mother to pups be it bear, wolf or coyote. That behavior is then expanded upon with the next generation. You don't have problems........until you do (i.e. your hunting dog eaten or your pet poodle getting snatched out of your back yard). The maligned "arm chair biologists" may be smarter than your giving credit. Common sense often has more wisdom than a prestigious degree.

quote mastertangler: "Fair enough Marsonite, you made some good points...........
The maligned "arm chair biologists" may be smarter than your giving credit. Common sense often has more wisdom than a prestigious degree. "

Mastertangler, you are definitely onto something with that statement, an example being the straight line winds of July 4th, 1999.
Shortly after, the estimate was at least a half million trees had been blown down in the BWCA.
Everyone in Ely said there is going to be a big fire sooner or later, because of this.
The Forest Service conducted a one year, $3,ooo,ooo study of the situation, and came up with the conclusion that sooner or later, there is going to be one big fire.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper to go to Zaverl's Bar in Ely, buy some local a tap beer and a bag of chips, and have him tell you the same thing??? :)

Say it aint so TGO!!.........3 million? Well that money has to go somewhere cause if they don't spend it then their budget gets cut. So theres a method to the madness. I bet the two of us would of done it for 1/2 and saved the taxpayers a ton. You do the statistical data and i'll type it up so it sounds good ("There's a pile of wood out thar, and it might catch on fire" ;-)

I had a client who worked for a government department that he would not disclose the name of. But he said they had meetings towards the end of the year where they would try and figure out how to spend their allocated budget money so it wouldn't get cut. One year he said they scrapped all the computers in their department even thought they were only 1 year old. They literally went into a dumpster. Be very careful what you ask for.........just sayin

quote marsonite: "

quote mastertangler: "You need actual quantifiable "data" Marsonite to prove that a species which is not hunted or trapped becomes more acclimated to humans and thus become less fearful? Alrighty then, moving right along............"

Yes, after 45 years of listening to fearmongering from armchair biologists about "the wolves are killing all the deer" (only to go to record deer numbers in the early 2000's--explain that one), and now wolves are losing all fear and will soon be coming into our yards and snatching babies.....I've grown a bit skeptical. Never said that they wouldn't lose some wariness. Looking for a trend that the incidents as described in the OP are becoming more numerous. "

And who is to say that snatching babies is a bad thing?

On a serious note, was the deer population in the forested areas the wolves roam at record levels in the early 2000's?

Daniel

quote dew042: "

quote marsonite: "

quote mastertangler: "You need actual quantifiable "data" Marsonite to prove that a species which is not hunted or trapped becomes more acclimated to humans and thus become less fearful? Alrighty then, moving right along............"

Yes, after 45 years of listening to fearmongering from armchair biologists about "the wolves are killing all the deer" (only to go to record deer numbers in the early 2000's--explain that one), and now wolves are losing all fear and will soon be coming into our yards and snatching babies.....I've grown a bit skeptical. Never said that they wouldn't lose some wariness. Looking for a trend that the incidents as described in the OP are becoming more numerous. "

And who is to say that snatching babies is a bad thing?


On a serious note, was the deer population in the forested areas the wolves roam at record levels in the early 2000's?


Daniel"

Here's my story: My family had a hunting property in Angora township, near where I grew up. That's south of Cook MN. Definitely wolf range. My dad was a logger, and in the winter of 68-69, he had to quit logging and instead got a job with the DNR feeding deer. He developed a hatred of wolves that winter. One deer yard he visited he found 52 dead deer, all killed by wolves.

The deer population got so low those years the the DNR had to close the season in 1971 (the year I was eligible to hunt). For a few years after that they tried various systems of short seasons, staggered seasons, etc. And every year I listened to my Dad and uncles talk about how the wolves were killing all the deer, deer numbers would never recover etc. Wolves were put on the endangered species list in the early 70's.

Here's the thing though. Fast forward to the early 2000's. I believe the peak harvest was 2003. I think there were also some big years in the early 90's so I could be wrong, but the point is the same. In something like 2006 or 2007, up in our permit area, you were allowed FIVE does. You could easily see a dozen deer in a day sitting on a stand. When I first started hunting, you might not see a deer all season. This all happened with FULL FEDERAL PROTECTION FOR WOLVES and good wolf numbers in our woods. Saw their tracks every year, heard them howl, etc. Kinda think the armchair biologists were wrong about wolves wiping out the deer.

Believe it or not I don't have a thing against a wolf hunting/ trapping season. Dont think it will really make much difference in their population. Might even be a good thing to instill some fear in them, who knows. I've just heard this thinking that tame wolves are going to be coming into your yard soon too many times to not react.

Yes winter of 68-69 was very tough and close to 40 inches of snow south of Ely.
Like in 1969- 70 much of the northern forest there was wolves but they were not very abundant but yes those years because of very extreme snow conditions and early in the season with huge deer yards present there was some excessive killing in a few deer yards by wolves that was documented. At the same time many of these deer were in extreme stress.
I believe probably around 1968 and 1969 the northern deer herd all the way to the border was at its all time high,even to today. Even in the BWCA you could go along the lake shore and see a lot of deer on south facing slopes.
The winter of 1969-70 probably changed and started the biggest decline of deer up there with huge deer losses due to starvation that year. I remember shooting a nice buck on the west side of Burntside lake and even in early November the snow was getting deep and than December we had some huge blizzards. Two huge storms in over a week. I really don't think they ever recovered in the northern 1/3 of the state to those levels.

Yes in and around 2003 the deer were fairly abundant and over harvest of the deer by hunters caused much of the decline as anything.
Like 1995-96(this winter like the Longville area 90% of the fawns died and almost 50% of the adult does due to starvation) and 1996-7 harsh winters caused the crash of deer populations more than any factor just like 1969.

The 2003 record deer harvest was probably mainly from Longville MN and south being the majority of deer. Southern Minnesota really didn't have hardly any deer present in the 1960's ,except the southeast. That has changed drastically now.

Interesting, thank you marsonite and Pinetree.

quote gkimball: "The real headline here should be "Wild Pack of Wolves Pass Within 6 Feet of Dad and Kids While Chasing Dog - Totally Ignore Humans."


What's the big deal? Send a domesticated animal out into the range of apex predators, then when the predators see the pet and try to eat it you say there is something wrong going on?


Have never been able to understand people who choose to live in or visit wild lands who are unwilling to accept what that wild environment is all about.


Can't handle what the place is all about? Don't live or go there."

This is spot-on. Living in wolf country demands a different kind of awareness and a healthy dose of respect. If you're in the woods with a dog - depending on where you are and the locations of any packs at a given time - you can essentially be trolling with live bait, even if the dog is on a leash.

It does not take a "bold" wolf to chase a dog. It just takes a wolf. It's not a rare occurrence.

FYI - while shooting a wolf is a violation of federal law, it is not felony. Nor was it during the brief period of MN state management (there are actually no wildlife-related felonies in MN).

quote Northland: "

quote gkimball: "The real headline here should be "Wild Pack of Wolves Pass Within 6 Feet of Dad and Kids While Chasing Dog - Totally Ignore Humans."



What's the big deal? Send a domesticated animal out into the range of apex predators, then when the predators see the pet and try to eat it you say there is something wrong going on?



Have never been able to understand people who choose to live in or visit wild lands who are unwilling to accept what that wild environment is all about.



Can't handle what the place is all about? Don't live or go there."

This is spot-on. Living in wolf country demands a different kind of awareness and a healthy dose of respect. If you're in the woods with a dog - depending on where you are and the locations of any packs at a given time - you can essentially be trolling with live bait, even if the dog is on a leash.


It does not take a "bold" wolf to chase a dog. It just takes a wolf. It's not a rare occurrence.


FYI - while shooting a wolf is a violation of federal law, it is not felony. Nor was it during the brief period of MN state management (there are actually no wildlife-related felonies in MN)."

Felony Case

quote mastertangler: "You need actual quantifiable "data" Marsonite to prove that a species which is not hunted or trapped becomes more acclimated to humans and thus become less fearful? Alrighty then, moving right along............"

Someone needs to tell that hogwash to mice. Man has been trapping them forever yet they show no fear, if anything they become more emboldened. Same for gophers, squirrels, beavers, and bats.

The simple fact of the matter is wolves like to kill stuff. Same with mink and a whole host of other predators. This is far from the romanticized version of the politically correct crowd who strongly believe that predators only kill the old and weak and thus "maintain" the perfect balance of nature.

When Caribou migrate wolf packs will run them and hamstring any they can and leave them only to go after more. Mink will kill almost anything in their path that they can tackle. It's not uncommon to follow mink in the winter and come across 3 or 4 trout left on the ice with mink tracks plainly visible. One may be partially eaten.

Deer found yarded up during a tough winter may be especially subject to complete predation.

But rather than decry such behavior as abnormal I believe it does indeed contribute to a "balance" of nature as all the kills will provide food for a great many other animals which will rely on such food stores to survive. I just wish the truth is what would prevail. Wolves enjoy killing things. It's "what they do".

quote Pinetree: "

quote Northland: "

quote gkimball: "The real headline here should be "Wild Pack of Wolves Pass Within 6 Feet of Dad and Kids While Chasing Dog - Totally Ignore Humans."



What's the big deal? Send a domesticated animal out into the range of apex predators, then when the predators see the pet and try to eat it you say there is something wrong going on?



Have never been able to understand people who choose to live in or visit wild lands who are unwilling to accept what that wild environment is all about.



Can't handle what the place is all about? Don't live or go there."

This is spot-on. Living in wolf country demands a different kind of awareness and a healthy dose of respect. If you're in the woods with a dog - depending on where you are and the locations of any packs at a given time - you can essentially be trolling with live bait, even if the dog is on a leash.



It does not take a "bold" wolf to chase a dog. It just takes a wolf. It's not a rare occurrence.



FYI - while shooting a wolf is a violation of federal law, it is not felony. Nor was it during the brief period of MN state management (there are actually no wildlife-related felonies in MN)."

Felony Case "

The felony in that case was the false statement to a federal officer by Mr. Hoff, 18 USC 1001. The ESA conviction was a misdemeanor for both men. They didn't either of them on the conspiracy charge because I think the jury didn't quite grasp the required elements of the violation.

quote mastertangler: "Pinetree for crying out loud.........talk about human reasoning being applied to animals, give me a break. About the only thing I wholeheartedly agreed with is that we ought to open up a season.


Trying to "explain away" and give the wolves excuses for being wolves is sort of lame at best. Bait piles etc. etc,.........nope, wolves are going to kill their competition and that includes coyotes, fox and any other canines including dogs.


And by all means lets self report that we shot a wolf because it was molesting my dog. Good luck with that. When is visiting hours? You would probably get less time for robbing a jewelry store.


The math is fairly simple. As wolf populations climb then moose and deer populations decline. As wolf populations climb pet populations decline. Not a big fan of high populations of coyote or wolves. "

How is describing wolf behavior "explaining away" what they do? They're wild animals, not vindictive, evil beings whose actions need some sort of justification. They also don't kill with the conscious idea that something else is "competition;" they kill for food. I would also highly doubt there's "enjoyment" involved.

More simple math: as deer and moose number decline, so do the number of wolves. Nature is cyclical. The only part of the equation that is not cyclical, but remains constant, is the fact that so many people have hatred for wolves because they're better at deer and moose hunting than those people.

Wolves don't just kill for food, they kill for fun.
19 elk killed in Wyoming, not for food. For sport and no the elk were not takin the wolves food. How do you explain this??

Comparing a mouse's brain to a wolves get real! From what I have seen in real life you threaten the wolf it will run.

Odd that people have a problem with people controlling wolves locally. If they come close to the Twin Cities they are killed and trapped.

I have no problem with a few wolves but with our moose on the decline we need to take a look.

How are the moose doing on Isle Royal with out wolves? Take a look we don't need a researcher to tell us how the wolf are doing on the island.

I don't fear the wolves I have been near hundreds in the wild. You have a better chance of getting shot in Minneapolis then getting attacked by a wolf in Isabella. But we are at the top of the food chain. If people have a problem with them killing their pets and approaching people I get it.

No don't kill them all, problem ones yes.

But we have no say it was left up to a judge who has never been to Minnesota. I know some of you are better off having the government help you, but it is not that way for all of us.

Yup, and the judge's husband just by pure coincidence makes outdoor films for National Geographic so she was totally unbiased in her ruling!! :)

quote ellahallely: " Wolves don't just kill for food, they kill for fun.
19 elk killed in Wyoming, not for food. For sport and no the elk were not takin the wolves food. How do you explain this??


"

I have heard this many times. But the consensus of the bios I know who study these creatures for a living is that they kill because it's how the sustain themselves, not for fun. If they kill more than they need, it's because they don't know any better and lack the foresight to know where the next meal is coming from - they can't refrigerate what they don't eat and save it for later. So if a wolf kills an elk and starts feeding on it, then sees another, it'll go after that one, too because to them, more food is better than less. Not because there's enjoyment or sport in it. Moreover, wolves DO get injured or die while trying to kill some animals. They will also often attack one another in the heat of the act, simultaneously. So given the dangerous circumstances involved killing something, I think that might lessen the fun factor.

quote Northland: "

quote ellahallely: " Wolves don't just kill for food, they kill for fun.
19 elk killed in Wyoming, not for food. For sport and no the elk were not takin the wolves food. How do you explain this??



"

I have heard this many times. But the consensus of the bios I know who study these creatures for a living is that they kill because it's how the sustain themselves, not for fun. If they kill more than they need, it's because they don't know any better and lack the foresight to know where the next meal is coming from - they can't refrigerate what they don't eat and save it for later. So if a wolf kills an elk and starts feeding on it, then sees another, it'll go after that one, too because to them, more food is better than less. Not because there's enjoyment or sport in it. Moreover, wolves DO get injured or die while trying to kill some animals. They will also often attack one another in the heat of the act, simultaneously. So given the dangerous circumstances involved killing something, I think that might lessen the fun factor."

Agree,the so called surplus killing in this case as the the Wyoming Wildlife Supervisor said is rare. Yes it does happen like in Minnesota deer yards a few times and usually happens late in the season. To do it all the time would be coounter productive in the long run to their survival.
Yes like the Winter of 1995-6 when deer were 90% of the fawns died from starvation as far south as Pine River Minnesota and Biologist in that year because of excess food sometimes
the internal organs were only ate.
The norm is after a certain amount of time at a wolf kill it is hard to find even a bone left over.
Ironically in central and Minnesota domestic dogs were known for Joy killing for the fun of it and 100's of deer died.
Yes, like before I believe we need a Well managed wolf program with hunting allowed.

I get that its a politically correct thing to say that predators don't kill for fun.......I believe they do and others say they don't. Neither side can prove anything.

But lets take a common house cat........do they eat the myriad of game that they kill when they are let outdoors to roam freely? Usually not. They merely have the equipment and the desire to go and kill some stuff and predators don't have to be hungry or in need to do so. Call it what you want.

I would feel better about most of you managing the wolf in Minnesota then some outsider! I don't feel a need for a hunting or trapping season. However I think local law enforcement should have a say if a bold wolf should be killed.

I say the alpha wolf thing is mostly untrue. I have never seen it anyway. Many times I have seen a pack push out an old, sick or weak wolf. Just my opinion.

Yes I know dogs chase and kill deer. They shoot and kill the dog. I don't feel a need to kill wolves to protect the deer. The moose might be another story.

quote mastertangler: "I get that its a politically correct thing to say that predators don't kill for fun.......I believe they do and others say they don't. Neither side can prove anything.


But lets take a common house cat........do they eat the myriad of game that they kill when they are let outdoors to roam freely? Usually not. They merely have the equipment and the desire to go and kill some stuff and predators don't have to be hungry or in need to do so. Call it what you want. "

I can't say for sure if wolves or other predators "kill for fun", but I do know that they tend to be opportunists by nature. A mink will kill every chicken in a coop by instinct, because in nature food is usually not guaranteed everyday, and they kill when they can.

I do know that wolves (and dogs) love hunting. It is part of their nature, and a very social, team-based activity. This is not that different from human hunters. There is just something in the pursuit that runs ancient and deep for those of us still connected with nature...

I suppose we will never know why predators kill a whole lot more than they really need at times. We can say that they "enjoy it" or rationalize with human reasoning that they "understand food might not always be abundant". Both perspectives are conjecture based on human thought. It is quite possible that both thoughts are equally true...........they enjoy using the "tools of their trade" and also understand that "everything needs to eat".

I don't know about you but I always go for abundance in my life and am usually not looking to "just get by".

The only animal I know that kills for fun, know for sure that is, is homo sapiens.

It also kills for ego gratification, because it makes them feels better somehow, even if they don't need food. Look at any trophy hunter and tell me that killing isn't for "fun."

It also kills with it's cars on highways. And many other ways everyday as it pursues it's "lifestyle."

So what if some wolves or minks kill a few more than they can eat once in a while, compared to the super-predator called humans.

quote gkimball: "The only animal I know that kills for fun, know for sure that is, is homo sapiens.


It also kills for ego gratification, because it makes them feels better somehow, even if they don't need food. Look at any trophy hunter and tell me that killing isn't for "fun."


It also kills with it's cars on highways. And many other ways everyday as it pursues it's "lifestyle."


So what if some wolves or minks kill a few more than they can eat once in a while, compared to the super-predator called humans."

Sorry but comparing humans to wolves is comparing apples and oranges.

quote gkimball: "The only animal I know that kills for fun, know for sure that is, is homo sapiens.


It also kills for ego gratification, because it makes them feels better somehow, even if they don't need food. Look at any trophy hunter and tell me that killing isn't for "fun."


It also kills with it's cars on highways. And many other ways everyday as it pursues it's "lifestyle."


So what if some wolves or minks kill a few more than they can eat once in a while, compared to the super-predator called humans."

Hmmm.......Your perspective is a bit skewed to put it politely. Ego gratification and "fun" are the reasons people hunt? You judge motives........there is only ONE who can judge the heart (motive) and He walked on water.

The same person who clips a dove while driving down the road is also the same person who is dedicated towards wildlife conservation and a contentious caretaker of the planet. Yes humanity is to be good stewards of the earth but we also have dominion. It was, after all, made for us.

One thing I will agree with you on is that predators are only doing their thing when they kill, wether they need it or not. As I have said, I can't judge their motive, if they are doing it for "fun" (sport or thrill), but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Didn't realize this.

Thanks Lindentree
So the way our government works. Could make money selling licenses to hunt and trap wolf. No we pay someone to kill the wolves and loss money. This BS has to change. How long can you run a government this way?? The private sector can always do things at a fraction of the cost and much more efficient.

quote ellahallely: "Thanks Lindentree
So the way our government works. Could make money selling licenses to hunt and trap wolf. No we pay someone to kill the wolves and loss money. This BS has to change. How long can you run a government this way?? The private sector can always do things at a fraction of the cost and much more efficient."

While I suspect we are like minded concerning the efficacy of government vs private sector I also believe strongly in intellectual honesty. The difference is the Federal trappers would be specifically targeting problem animals. That is significant to point out in the comparison.

However, there is a case for a realistic argument that Federal trappers might not be required if the wolf numbers were managed via removing them from the endangered species list and have a managed season

FWIW.......... I wouldn't be surprised if a federal trapper makes really good money........and that wether they were successful or not. Your tax dollars at work ;-)

quote mastertangler: "

quote ellahallely: "Thanks Lindentree
So the way our government works. Could make money selling licenses to hunt and trap wolf. No we pay someone to kill the wolves and loss money. This BS has to change. How long can you run a government this way?? The private sector can always do things at a fraction of the cost and much more efficient."

While I suspect we are like minded concerning the efficacy of government vs private sector I also believe strongly in intellectual honesty. The difference is the Federal trappers would be specifically targeting problem animals. That is significant to point out in the comparison.


However, there is a case for a realistic argument that Federal trappers might not be required if the wolf numbers were managed via removing them from the endangered species list and have a managed season


FWIW.......... I wouldn't be surprised if a federal trapper makes really good money........and that wether they were successful or not. Your tax dollars at work ;-)"

Non government trappers can target problem wolves the same way government trappers do.
I know a couple government trappers what they do is nothing special. I am just as good a trapper as they are.

The only reason to use government trappers/hunters is to kill the idea that others besides the government can do things for themselves.

The goal of the anti's is to kill off all hunting and trapping. One of the ways of doing so is not letting anybody but the government workers do the job.

Here in Maine, the private sector killed the cod fishing. Then the private sector killed the haddock and shrimp fishing. The government, via oversight, is trying to save the last species, lobster, because the private sector would catch 'em all if it could.

We have had government trappers come into the area I live for over 25 years. They do target the animals that is causing the problem and they are surprisingly efficient-more than I thought they could be.
Like I said before certain predators learn to go after a certain species like cows and once they start often not always they will return.
Like I said earlier my Uncle has over 100 black angus cows and has had wolves within a mile or even walking in the same pasture he has seen wolves,he hasn't even lost a calf.
So each pack is different.
Yes a Controlled limited season by hunters is long overdue,but it would not key into specific animals.
Also farmers own preventive actions do help often.Dogs etc.

Like I said we need a middle ground and the MN DNR and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife have proposed a season for a decade. Its the courts holding it up.

quote Pinetree: "We have had government trappers come into the area I live for over 25 years. They do target the animals that is causing the problem and they are surprisingly efficient-more than I thought they could be.
Yes a Controlled limited season by hunters is long overdue,but it would not key into specific animals.
Also farmers own preventive actions do help often.Dogs etc.


"

A general hunting trapping season would not target specific animals damage control permits would.

Government trappers trap where the problem animals are. Non government trappers could do the same thing.

Just because some one works for the government doesn't always make them better at what is being done.

I personally know one current government trapper and had an uncle (now deceased) who was an government trapper. That is what they are a trapper paid by the government.

There are many trappers that could do the same job.

100% true riverrunner!!!

why do I get double posts;-(

Now THAT would be awesome. Run a line anyways but also get paid to be a government trapper on top of it. Geez, I wonder how you get that gig.

America, what a country!

quote The Great Outdoors: "100% true riverrunner!!!"

Totally agree. Whether its keeping the deer herd in suburbia under control or wolves in MN. The DNR could set up a controlled program where the public (hunters or trappers) would keep the numbers under control. Many states do this with the deer herd. Curious what the cost is for the gov't to take 180 animals.

Many times the Government trapper is a private trapper under contract and had some training on do,s and don't. They have to have some control when going after specific animals.

Anyone know what happens to the pelts? Do the trappers get to keep them? I think a wolf pelt from a MN timberwolf is worth $300 - $800 depending on size and color.

quote ellahallely: "Anyone know what happens to the pelts? Do the trappers get to keep them? I think a wolf pelt from a MN timberwolf is worth $300 - $800 depending on size and color."

Good question. I think many are turned over to schools and education centers.

Recent newspaper article.
Byron Cole, part-time federal trapper and resident of Badger, shared his experiences in trapping the biggest pest that cattle farmers have to deal with: Canis Lupus, the Gray Wolf.

Wolves have been on the federally protected list for years. From about 2012 to 2014, they were taken off the endangered list, and a lottery license system was set up so that they could be hunted by the lucky few who got a tag. The number of wolves was a little over 4,000 in 2012, according to the DNR website, and the hunting season was set for October through January. In 2014, Judge Beryl Howell ruled against the removal of the wolves from the endangered species list. Since that time the wolf population has grown, but it is hard to pin down the exact size of each pack and how many packs there are.

“In the spring when the wolves have their pups, the size of the pack doubles,” Cole says, “but only about 20-30 percent of the pups will survive the year.” Cole has been the part time federal trapper since September 10, 2010. His part time title means that he traps from April 1 to the end of October each year. The counties that he covers are Lake of the Woods, Roseau, Beltrami, Marshall, and Kittson. But Kittson County is the only county that has a special law to help cattle farmers regain some of their losses to the wolves.

For more on this story, see this week’s edition of the North Star News!

quote ellahallely: "Anyone know what happens to the pelts? Do the trappers get to keep them? I think a wolf pelt from a MN timberwolf is worth $300 - $800 depending on size and color."

If they were trapped when their hides were not in prime they would most likely be worthless.

I was a contract trapper for the MN DNR for a couple years, I had to bid for the contract.
I was paid around 400 dollars a month in the mid 90's to trap beaver and had to keep the water off of around 100 miles of forest roads on the White Earth Rez.
The reason I was able to do it so cheaply was because this was on my Leech/Leechs trapping line. I would check my leech traps in the morning, breaking dams along my beaver trap line, then return in the evening when I re-baited my leech traps, where I would usually dispatch the beavers with a 22 Ruger when the beavers returned to rebuild their dams.

I fed a lot of the beavers to my dogs. Never sold one pelt because my contract was for the ice off season, the beavers were not a problem in the winter.

quote Pinetree: "

quote ellahallely: "Anyone know what happens to the pelts? Do the trappers get to keep them? I think a wolf pelt from a MN timberwolf is worth $300 - $800 depending on size and color."

The number of wolves was a little over 4,000 in 2012, according to the DNR website, and the hunting season was set for October through January. In 2014, Judge Beryl Howell ruled against the removal of the wolves from the endangered species list.
"

Yes, she ruled that they haven't recovered to their original territory which means we'd have to bulldoze New York City, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and many other large cities to allow this to happen.
I also mentioned before that her husband makes wildlife films for National Geographic magazine, so she was obviously unbiased in her assessment, and coincidentally, gave hubby the full speed ahead on wolf flicks!! :")

It is incredible what one person (or 9 Ivy leaguers > Supreme Court) in a black robe can do. They have WAY to much power.........and basically unaccountable to anyone. If legislation can't accomplish an agenda then by golly the Judicial will do it. After all, they are smarter than the rest of us.

Linden

Beaver pelts can still be prime without being taken under the ice. I have stretched plenty of them caught in open water and sold them at the Seattle Fur Exchange. Lots of work, I would hate to have learned what my hourly wage was LOL.

Beaver makes for great bait.........everything loves beaver!

quote mastertangler: "Linden


Beaver pelts can still be prime without being taken under the ice. I have stretched plenty of them caught in open water and sold them at the Seattle Fur Exchange. Lots of work, I would hate to have learned what my hourly wage was LOL.

Beaver makes for great bait.........everything loves beaver! "

Lots of prime beaver taken in open water just depends where one lives. May first to Nov first I would not think so.

Wolves and other canines prime up in NW Wisconsin around NOV 1st and stay nice till some time in February. Northern MN a week or so longer on each end would be my guess.

When my uncle was trapping coyotes for the state of Oregon. His rules stated he had to turn all the pelts in for sale Nov. to 1st of March.
His best year he caught 3000 plus coyotes.

In much of Minnesota most trappers say you have about 2 weeks after ice out than furs start going bad. Trapping for beaver runs like 7 months in Minnesota but it cost about as much now for expenses as money you would make. very few beaver trappers left. Yes beaver furs would be fair condition now.