OK so I have decided to get a new sleeping pad for next year and could use some help. I trip just before Memorial day till mid October, usually solo. I am thinking of either the Exped SynMat UL winter pad or the Exped Down Mat 7 long and wide, both are on the REI garage site, money is about the same. One has a built in pump [down one] the other "pump sold separately". What kind of pump are they talking about?? Weight?? cost?? Is it the snochel thingy? not so sure I'd like that. Any and all suggestions will be considered. You folks did well when I asked about a new tent. If I buy something from the garage site does it come with the factory warranty? Used returned gear? I don't know much about their garage site. Thanks in advance . When I decide what I want to buy I'll take a run to actually look at the gear. FRED

I have tried quite a few..........I REALLY like the Big Agnes system with the incorporated sleeve into the sleeping bag. Wonderful........everything stays in place even if you toss and turn. But you have to blow the thing up which I dislike. It also developed a leak in the seams after a few years.

Then I went to the Exped down mat. That uses the "bag of air system" (Schnozzle) which is better than blowing the thing up but still less than ideal. On day 19 of a 20 day backpacking trip it also developed a leak in the seam which was very disappointing.

I am very careful with my mats and do not force air out with excessive force when rolling or folding them up as I believe you can put to much force on the seams and blow them out.

My latest mat is a Nemo bought on the advice of this very form. While not quite as compact as either of the above options the built in pump is a dream and so far it has held up very nicely. I like it a lot.

Nemo

REI Garage is not used or returned equipment. It is brand new items that they are selling cheaper. They really need to get rid of that Garage title as it is confusing everyone with it and the garage sale they have and now they have garage sale used items on a site.
As for the pads the Exped downmat 7 has a built in pump to it no schnoozl thing. You use both hands to pump it up. I have an Exped downmat 9 that has this and it works really well. The Synmat UL winter uses the schnoozl bag. I would go with the Downmat.

I have had downmat 9 I bought in the "garage" about 5 years ago. It has internal pump and I have had no issues with it.

I have the downmat 9 LW and then later purchased winter synmat MW. The reason I did this was that the downmat is much heavier and bulkier and I was going on a backpacking trip and wanted to cut weight (having REI rebates made it all palatable).

I really like the downmat when weight is not an issue. It is comfortable and I believe would be warm in just about any temperature that you would camp in from May to October. In those situations I like the availability of the integrated pump to give a few extra squirts of air if I forget to seat the valve cover adequately. For me, it takes about 110 pumps to fully inflate that beast with the integrated pump (and yes I am letting the pump recoil and inflate before using it again and doing my best to seal the intake valve with my hand when pusing down). So I still use the schnozzle even with the downmat. Takes at most 8 schnozzle loads.

The winter synmat MW works well, light weight, packable, roomie where it needs to be. schnozzle fills it up in about 6 times. But apparently it is not being sold :( I don't have as much confidence in it with really cold (0 F), but had zero problems down to upper 30's F. Would trust it down to 20 F for me.

Also have a down mat that is regular size that had to send back for a leak that I could not find. Exped customer service was good.

As others said, REI garage are brand new items full return and warranty.

I’d go with the synmat UL winter pad. The schnozzel is very easy to use, I think easier than th integrated pump. I also like to have the pump non-integrated, just one less thing to go wrong. I think the r-value and weight are better than others read you mentioned.

Are you sure the pump-schnozzel is sold separately? When I go to the EXPED site it says it is included. My previous pads had it included as well.

Any air pad is not going to be as reliable as the old thermarest just because of the design... doesn’t matter the brand. Unfortunately you will here about failures on all of them, fortunately the companies have stood by their products.that being said I have an EXPED I have been using since 2005 and it is still going strong. I had a pillow that leaked right away and they replaced it easily.

T

Something to consider, the UL series, SynMat UL winter, has a 2 year warranty the standard series, Exped Down Mat 7, has a 5 year warranty. 20 D Polyester vs
75 D Polyester. This is the pump sack stuff bag that is included with the SynMat UL winter acording to Exped's literature.

Trips I have taken with folks using the "air bag inflation" it was not significantly faster or easier than using either built in pumps or the small mini pump. I do have access to all 3 style of pumps.

butthead

quote butthead: "
Trips I have taken with folks using the "air bag inflation" it was not significantly faster or easier than using either built in pumps or the small mini pump.
butthead"

Went on a trip with someone using a Nemo pad and integrated pump and that seemed to work great. Was as fast as the schnozzle. For my down mat it does literally....I counted... take 110 pumps to fill it with the integrated pump. Way longer and more effort than the schnozzle.

I do have the older down mat, the one that I had to buy an adapter for the schnozzle to work....maybe that pump is why it takes 110 pumps?

"For my down mat it does literally....I counted... take 110 pumps to fill it with the integrated pump. Way longer and more effort than the schnozzle."

I think we discussed this in an older post, but I did post a camp setup video showing me pumping an Exped 9 DownMat and it took less than 40 pumps, 3 minutes, to inflate it. A comment pointed out that my style was slower and allowed the pump to fill fully.

butthead

I am in the same situation. I just found homes for my 4 Exped mats to other members on this site within the past 2 weeks. They were great pads, very comfortable and durable. I think the Synmats 9 LW's were 41 oz. each, and the Downmat 9 LW was 49 oz. I went with the Big Agnes Insulated Q-Core SLX L for 24 oz. and about 40% less packable size than the Expeds. Again, I loved the Expeds, just wanting to cut weight. I only use a pad about 4-5 nights a year so they don't get much use. My local REI had them all inflated and on display so I tried them all side by side.

I have an Exped Synmat UL7 with the integrated pump. Very reliable. Schnozzle is much faster / easier but I like having both options. Schnozzle to fill it fast and the pump to top it off.

Having said that, unlike many here I have never found it to be very comfortable. The "comfort zone" is a very narrow air pressure range. I am a side sleeper and even at its best I periodically wake up with my hip hurting and have to turn over.

After hearing from my friend I switched to a Thermarest NeoAir. Much more comfortable and it packs smaller and lighter. He has the NeoAir XTherm (higher R value) and loves it. I love mine and the Exped has been handed down to my son.

YMMV

Like drnatus and others, I have an older Exped Synmat7 LW. It always took me about the same number of pumps as him, even after trying to emulate butthead's technique. I got the Schnozzel Pump Bag - pad was also old enough that I had to get the valve adapter - and it worked much better for me. It has been a good pad and I still use as a loaner, but I also switched to the Thermarest NeoAir XTherm LW to reduce weight and bulk. I was lucky to find it one day at Cabela's significantly marked down and bought on impulse, although I had read reviews of it. I am happy with it.

Fred, is there a need to use REI as a source? To a point I can understand the need to look/touch before purchase, but that really limits the choices available. Just did a fast count of Exped mats and came up with 70+ different choices.
Thermarest, Sea To Sumit, Big Agnes and other makers have much more that never get stocked in stores.

I had to order my DownMat 5 Lite S (short 64 inch length), because I never saw one in stock. But it is the mat that gets most of my sleeping time.

butthead

I suggest the Exped Synmat 3-D 7. Very, very comfortable. Much more comfortable than the Big Agnes insulated air core. The boxed sides really do make a difference in the comfort. On sale at REI for $149 for the LW: https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/product/130357/exped-synmat-3-d-7-sleeping-pad-long-wide

***Apply coupon 25GARAGE for 25% off = $112. You won't find a better mattress at a better price. Better get it soon as that coupon has been available for a couple of weeks and could expire.

About the schnozzel: I found the large orange one very cumbersome---you have to get pretty far behind the mattress due to the length of the bag and I could never fill it more than about 1/3 full; it's just too big (unless maybe you have long arms?). I traded it in for the smaller, lighter yellow one and have had much better luck. If a picnic table is available inflation is a breeze. Takes 3 sackfuls of air with minimal lung effort---just blow one breath lightly into the sack. Total time about 1 minute of low effort. Far, far easier than the built-in hand/foot pump. (For me the pump on the old Synmat 7 always took 120 pumps in contorted positions.) On a windy day last week I verified that the small yellow sack takes exactly 2 full sacks of air with no need to blow in the sack to fill the Synmat 3-D 7---just hold it into the wind to fill it. Don't be afraid of the sack. It's weird but honestly it works great. But call Exped and ask for the yellow sack.

If you don't mind extra weight, the Synmat 12 has unbeatable comfort in 4.7" of thickness.
As for durability I have over 500 nights on 4 Synmats and haven't had a single issue.

Buy either of these mattresses (Synmat 12 or 3-D 7) sight unseen. Hard not to be satisfied. 20 years ago we would have killed for such a great product. Put the 3-D 7 on a Helinox cot and you won't want to get out of bed.

quote LilyPond: "
About the schnozzel: ....just blow one breath lightly into the sack. ....."

I agree that this works great, but in general it is something that I try to avoid because of the chance of putting extra moisture into the pad and causing mildew/mold growth.

Have you looked and or found any problems with that?

It may be one of those concerns that is........wait for it........overblown. :)

:) Yeah, I think it's just a lot of hot air.

Klymit Insulated Static V. Or, for two: Klymit Insulated Double V. Pricing on many sites nearly always at only two-thirds Kymit's MSRP, if not less.

I recently picked up a Nemo Cosmo Insulated for a 10 day solo. Having been a long time thermarest user, I was skeptical about making the switch, but took the chance. I was not disappointed, and will never go back. The Nemo pad was ultra comfortable, never lost air overnight, and the foot pump... simply amazing.

Infinite thumbs up for the Nemo Cosmo.

Hate to break the karma here, but this is the best thread I have read in a long time... keep it up! Great info folks.

quote bct: "I recently picked up a Nemo Cosmo Insulated for a 10 day solo. Having been a long time thermarest user, I was skeptical about making the switch, but took the chance. I was not disappointed, and will never go back. The Nemo pad was ultra comfortable, never lost air overnight, and the foot pump... simply amazing.


Infinite thumbs up for the Nemo Cosmo."

Wondering what TR pad you were using before the Nemo?

quote drnatus: "

quote LilyPond: "
About the schnozzel: ....just blow one breath lightly into the sack. ....."

I agree that this works great, but in general it is something that I try to avoid because of the chance of putting extra moisture into the pad and causing mildew/mold growth.

Have you looked and or found any problems with that?

It may be one of those concerns that is........wait for it........overblown. :)"

With the schnozzel you're not really inflating the mattress with your breath. That one light breath is drawing the surrounding air into the bag. Not sure how one could check the inside of the mattress, but I've never noticed a problem---no strange odors, no separation of the insulating layer from the fabric. I tend to think this is an overblown concern. I mean, moisture can get in the mattress if you use any pump on a humid day, right?? Quote from Exped: ""Exped's proprietary, fabric lamination process creates air tight baffles and prevents moisture build up in the pad from destroying these glues, resulting in no loss of air over time."

If you don't want to blow into the bag you can also just lift it upward and it will fill. I find that breathing lightly into it fills it a bit fuller. A reviewer at REI recommends waving it around your head to fill it. Apparently you can also dry the inside of the mattress with a cool hair dryer.

I have BA air pads, Nemo pads and exped pads. I also have the schnozzle bag, nemo external pump and pads with builtin pumps. As far as comfort goes nothing beats the Nemo Cosmo for me, even better if I have weight budget to take the memory foam/microfiber pillowtop with, adds a few lbs but is heavenly. For me the baffle architecture of the Nemo is just better for me (slide sleeper) that the full length tubes style found in my expeds. Quality is a toss up between Nemo and exped, I feel like they are a bit better built than the BA. When it comes to light weight and cold weather the exped UL down mats cant be beat, I often put my exped in the Nemo pillowtop cover to increase comfort. As far as inflating goes, clear day/night, no bugs schozzle is my preferred method but I really don't like using this in my solo tent (copper spur 2), personally I find it somewhat annoying to use in anything less than a 4 person tent. If inflating inside a tent I think the built in pump found on the Cosmo is the best. The Nemo Cosmo built in pump works better than the exped pumps, at least for me, I actually put it just slightly behind the exped pump bag, if it wernt for the pump bags ability to pull double duty as a dry bag I'd probably give the nod to the Cosmo foot pump as its just slightly slower but requires no fiddling and no assembly, its a big pump compared to the expeds built in but the cosmo is not a light pad, is more of a full featured comfort pad that just happens to be somewhat manageable in weight.

quote boonie: "

quote bct: "I recently picked up a Nemo Cosmo Insulated for a 10 day solo. Having been a long time thermarest user, I was skeptical about making the switch, but took the chance. I was not disappointed, and will never go back. The Nemo pad was ultra comfortable, never lost air overnight, and the foot pump... simply amazing.



Infinite thumbs up for the Nemo Cosmo."

Wondering what TR pad you were using before the Nemo?"

I've had a myriad of thermarest pads over the years (I spent over a decade in the outdoor industry). My first was an original full length when I was 14, and it was great at the time - the valve was metal. I've had the guide, guide lite, ridgerest, and more recently the NeoAir series, both with and without the speedvalve. As I have gotten older and inflicted with various injuries from either manual labor, funhogging, or trying to funhog while performing manual labor, I have sought a more comfortable pad. I'm 6'2" and weigh in at 240. My luck with the neo air pads simply has not been great, and my wife echos that sentiment. I learned of the Nemo pads from an employee at the local REI who I know to be an avid paddler and tripper, as well as having 12 BWCA trips under his belt. He spoke highly of the Nemo, so I took the plunge. I slept several nights on the living room floor (hardwood) to set my mind at ease. I'm a side sleeper, and my hip never touched the floor, even after three nights. The bonus though, is in the details: dump valve for quick easy packing, hang tabs, built in "pillow", and sweet lord the built in foot pump!

All that being said, if I could afford to hire and feed a sherpa, I'd go with a Paco Pad.

Thanks, bct - the context and detail helps. Did you have problems with the NeoAir or just not comfortable for you?

I have had no problems with mine and am comfortable with it, but have only had for 2-3 years. Likewise with my Exped - it's a good bit older, probably near 8 years. I was just looking for something lighter, less bulky, and still warm.

Sea to Summit, just spend the money and do it, from one side sleeper to another.

I like the NeoAir myself and have a Klymat but haven't used it yet. Am a side sleeper and I don't hit ground...

quote boonie: "Thanks, bct - the context and detail helps. Did you have problems with the NeoAir or just not comfortable for you?


I have had no problems with mine and am comfortable with it, but have only had for 2-3 years. Likewise with my Exped - it's a good bit older, probably near 8 years. I was just looking for something lighter, less bulky, and still warm. "

I have a first generation NeoAir, my wife has a newer version with the speedvalve. We've had some issues with them holding air overnight and not being as comfy as we'd like. Moreover, inflating a thick pad with your breath just gets old. My original thermarest is an inch thick and contains open cell foam. It does not take much to inflate, but also does not provide as much comfort. The NeoAir, at roughly 2.5 inches thick, takes more time than I care to spend huffing and puffing AND is not as comfortable as I would like. So far, the Nemo has eliminated the issues I was experiencing with the NeoAir pads. I also like that they provide a temp rating on their insulated pads. Not that I don't understand R values, it just goes hand in hand with how we rate sleeping bags (that's another topic for another thread...)

Thanks, bct. I eliminated the huffing and puffing with one of the mini-pumps, but added a couple of ounces. I haven't had issues with mine holding air overnight in the three years I've had it, but will keep an eye out for that. I find it comfortable on my back or side like mapsguy1955, but I do weigh a hundred pounds less than you, so our experience may vary for that reason. I have been plenty warm with it down to 20 degrees.

My incoming(!) weight is usually about 205 and after around 200. I'm 6'1 so I guess that is average. I find the huffing and puffing for the NEOAir is about 30 huffs, or 3-4 minutes. For me it is not a difficult tradeoff. Also, I find it much easier to get the air out of and pack up than ALL other pads I have tried. It also packs relatively small. What I lose in the huffing I gain in the breakdown... I haven't had a deflating overnight problem either. But that is just me.

The last couple years I've been useing a Sea to Summit comfort plus that I inflate with an Exped Snozzle sack. So far so good. A bit crinkly, but not as bad as NEO.

Neo Air X Therm(mummy) or X therm Max(rectangular). Extremely warm, and the lightest of the bunch( around 1 pound) and just under 2.5" thick. The inflation bag is super fast and low effort once you get the hang of it. The old ones were crinkly but they have mostly solved that problem. I use to be a Exped fan but the ridiculous weight and a failure have turned me away. BA would be my second choice but they are heavy, and to me not as warm.

So, what's it going to be, Fred?

My kids both have Thermarest pads. not bad and fairly durable, but only a bit compressible. When my pad went out a little over a year ago, I went on a new pad hunt. I tried out several air pads, but was unhappy with most because they were so loud. I finally tried the Sea to Summit insulated pad and have LOVED it. The biggest selling point for me was their dump valve. It's a dual valve. Use the smaller inside one way valve to inflate very quickly, then use the outside dump valve in the morning. I have NEVER experienced a pad that deflates completely flat and near instantaneously for packing like the Sea to Summit.

First off I want to thank each and everyone who posted on my question for suggestions on a new mat, I spent a lot of time looking on the internet as to what I wanted. I did finally make a purchase of a Exped Synmat 7. It was a little heavier than I wanted and packs slightly larger but I have came to the conclussion that my really rough long trips are probably drawing to a close so it will probably mean more base camping [or at least staying in one camp for a few days then moving] so the extra weight and size won't make a lot of differance. Thank you all very muchly.. FRED

My Synmat has served me well, Fred. Did you get the Schnozzel pump bag, too?

Well I got my new pad yesterday, brushed off the snow on the wet box and took it out of the box, laid it on the floor and spent a really long time trying to get it to blow up. I did kneed the pump a little to see if that would make it reinflate better but that didn't seem to make much difference. Figured maybe it was slow because it was cold outside [around freezing] but when I go north in October it has a habit of being towards the cold side. Did finally get it blown up and it seems to be pretty comfy. I got the medium/wide size[ 72 inch by 26 inch] it was long enough and wide enough. I think I will watch for a sale on the schnozzle thingy. FRED

The Schnozzel pump bag was a big improvement for me.

I blow up my Klymit single by mouth. Takes about 10-12 easy breaths. Was concerned about introducing weight/mold/funky smells, but nothing. The double comes with a snap-on attachment on the roll-top carrying bag for inflation. Works very slick (once you realize that there is an 'inflate' port and a 'deflate' port...) with a half-dozen squeezes with the bag. Topped it off with a few puffs, but can also fill it without the bag in about 20 breaths. Nice to know, because the bag adds a lot to the overall weight. Easy-peasy.

quote Nineteenpack: "Sea to Summit, just spend the money and do it, from one side sleeper to another. "

Which Sea to Summit pad are you talking about? outdoorgearlab lists the Sea to Summit Comfort Plus Insulated as the top pick for comfort, I like the idea of dual top/bottom air chambers, kind of like an insurance policy, lose air in one side and you still have padding. They also make a Comfort Light, with a lower R vakue, is one of those the model that you 're talking about.

quote schweady: "I blow up my Klymit single by mouth. Takes about 10-12 easy breaths. Was concerned about introducing weight/mold/funky smells, but nothing. The double comes with a snap-on attachment on the roll-top carrying bag for inflation. Works very slick (once you realize that there is an 'inflate' port and a 'deflate' port...) with a half-dozen squeezes with the bag. Topped it off with a few puffs, but can also fill it without the bag in about 20 breaths. Nice to know, because the bag adds a lot to the overall weight. Easy-peasy.
"

I found one of these on E-bay last year and it works great with my Klymit pad:
Klymit Foam Hand Pump