Chat Rooms (0 Chatting)  |  Search  |   Login/Join
* For the benefit of the community, commercial posting is not allowed.
Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
   Listening Point - General Discussion
      Problem Solved - What is killing the moose?     
 Forum Sponsor

Author

Text

Grizzlyman
distinguished member(607)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/04/2017 10:46PM
Problem solved!

Now it looks like all we have to do is kill all the deer so the moose can live. The article quite clearly states that deer and moose can't live side by side.

Strib article
 
Reply    Reply with Quote    Print Top Bottom Previous Next
dew042
distinguished member (237)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/05/2017 03:22AM
That is a lot of interesting information, for sure. If nothing else it a reminder that ecosystems are complicated and fascinating things.

If we've learned anything, balance and moderation tend to be the best medicine. If the thumb is on the scale for the deer population, perhaps its time for a correction. I don't find that particularly controversial.
ddietz336
member (37)member
 
11/05/2017 04:13AM
Interesting they have been studying this issue for how long, and just now realized Moose and Deer can't cohabitate? Would think this would be common knowledge 10 years ago. Now that the deer are established, like so many other intruders, (milfoil, Asian carp, etc) going to be next to impossible to cull them out. But I am sure you could put a dent in them if it was permitted. Although the wolves that eat so many deer that are readily available would then go after the moose.

Deer have 90% of the state as habitat, should get rid of them in the arrowhead area. I hunt multiple things and would have no issue traveling a few miles outside the north to get a deer if so inclined. People do it all the time for grouse, duck, geese etc. But alas, the goverment runs to the beat of the almighty Dollar and lobbyists.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/05/2017 07:55AM
I guess we all view things differently. The way I read the article and view the graph the wolves are the number 1 reason are moose are on their way to being extinct in Minnesota.



Compared to Minnesota the moose in Maine are doing much better. Does Maine have deer? Wolves? Yes I know it is everything wolves, ticks ,parasites.
Don't forget the researchers have also killed several moose by stressing them out and mothers abandoning their calves.



It wasn't parasites that killed and ate this little guy.

So we have paid researchers hundreds of million dollars for moose research in North America. Have we got what we paid for? What is the fix? Even with help of these so called experts the population is falling faster then ever!!

Read the comments below the article. Some very good points, you just have to read around the goof balls, as in any strib article comment section.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/05/2017 08:58AM
Reality is a demanding taskmaster and usually triumphant. The fact of the matter is that as the population has increased and land has been cleared and crops planted the environment favored increased deer populations. That is reality and there will be little which can be done to change it.

The same can be said of the demise of free roaming buffalo who now number just a fraction of their previous numbers. You can be the "Breadbasket of the World" or you can have buffalo, your not having both.
PaddlinMadeline
distinguished member(509)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/05/2017 12:08PM
quote mastertangler: "Reality is a demanding taskmaster and usually triumphant. The fact of the matter is that as the population has increased and land has been cleared and crops planted the environment favored increased deer populations. That is reality and there will be little which can be done to change it.


The same can be said of the demise of free roaming buffalo who now number just a fraction of their previous numbers. You can be the "Breadbasket of the World" or you can have buffalo, your not having both. "


Totally different situation than what happened with the Buffalo.
Link
11/05/2017 01:04PM
quote ellahallely: "I guess we all view things differently. The way I read the article and view the graph the wolves are the number 1 reason are moose are on their way to being extinct in Minnesota.




Compared to Minnesota the moose in Maine are doing much better. Does Maine have deer? Wolves? Yes I know it is everything wolves, ticks ,parasites.
Don't forget the researchers have also killed several moose by stressing them out and mothers abandoning their calves.




It wasn't parasites that killed and ate this little guy.

So we have paid researchers hundreds of million dollars for moose research in North America. Have we got what we paid for? What is the fix? Even with help of these so called experts the population is falling faster then ever!!

Read the comments below the article. Some very good points, you just have to read around the goof balls, as in any strib article comment section."



I think they were pretty clear that many of the wolf deaths were from parasite infected moose. The study stil has to count them as a wolf deats but those moose would of died anyway as the parasite is fatal to moose. The moose infected often just waste away or walk in circles and make easy pickings for a wolf. They can tell by the radio collars and gps tracking which moose were already sick/infected. Many of the moose that died when they tried to collar them were also infected and sickly so I don’t think you can really count them as researcher deaths. In a study you have to label them that way to be consistent but to blame the researchers in disingenuous.

None of this was known until they did the study, it was one of the hypothesis but until they did the study they could not say with certainty what the main causes were and the extent. I do think that wolves are killing more than they originally thought as well even taking out the already parasite infected moose.

What can be done? They can manage the deer herd to more historic levels in The Arrowhead region and the DNR would like to mange the wolves as well.

With the popularity of deer hunting and the wolf still wrongly listed as endangered in MN you might be right that the politics will not allow the DNR to do anything in the long run. I still think it was good to do the study, knowledge is power. I am not sure where the cost went up to hundreds of millions to do the research? The original study was put at 1.6 million total some of it funded through donations and DNR employees working off the books.

T
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/05/2017 03:29PM
Hmmmm........Madeline I am not trying to directly compare what is happening with moose in Minnesota and what happened to plains Buffalo. Only the reality of humanities impact.

The only sure thing on this sphere is change........wether it is the climate or the flora / fauna.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/05/2017 03:39PM
Part of the problem is who to trust. The bias and political correctness has so very obviously corrupted much of the media it gives one pause as to what to believe anymore. The media don't even try and hide their bias and have injected personal bias into what should be hard news.

The unintended consequences are a suspicious society (rightfully so). Vain imaginations and conspiracy theories now have fertile ground and the end result is a divided and chaotic populace who lack unity.

It appears that despite the "hundreds of millions" of dollars spent there seems to be little that can be done in any effective way. But at least we will know why the moose disappeared.
QueticoMike
distinguished member(4764)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/05/2017 03:49PM
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
missmolly
distinguished member(8429)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/06/2017 07:46AM
"hundreds of millions" for research? I googled that phrase and couldn't find a source. Link, please.
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13181)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
11/06/2017 08:00AM
quote missmolly: ""hundreds of millions" for research? I googled that phrase and couldn't find a source. Link, please. "

I think people tend to use this phrase to make their point not an exact number. Like the phrase, “I’ve told you a million times...”. It’s an exaggerated
number, not an exact number that you can look up on google.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/06/2017 08:51AM
Savage you are a smart person!!
missmolly
distinguished member(8429)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/06/2017 09:14AM
Ahh, hyperbole. Okay, I have a deal for fans of such: Give me one thousand dollars and a week later, I'll send you hundred of millions of dollars.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/06/2017 09:27AM
That would be a ponzi scheme!
Missmolly I recall you saying you live in Maine?? Could be wrong. How many moose do you have? How many deer ? How many wolves? How many moose hunting permits does Maine give out?

Thanks for your first hand info!

missmolly
distinguished member(8429)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/06/2017 10:02AM
Our moose are dwindling too, being sucked dry by ticks. Never heard of wolves where I live, but I live on the Downeast coast. Plenty of deer, but they're hard for hunters to kill because our woods are so thick. We don't have many fields for clear shots. Don't have any numbers on moose permits, but that would be an easy search.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/06/2017 10:13AM
quote missmolly: ""hundreds of millions" for research? I googled that phrase and couldn't find a source. Link, please. "

Millions? tens of millions? Hundreds of millions? Isn't it all the same with government studies? Gotta use that taxpayer budget money up or it gets slashed the next year. Isn't that how the game is played?

In any event it we can agree that it would be a shame to see such a fine animal depart from historic ranges. The results of the study however, if accurate, show there appears to be very little we can do unless we curb our population growth. As people spread into more and more remote regions the habitat for whitetail becomes ever more conducive for their expansion.

At current levels of immigration we can expect upwards of 500 million from our current 330 million in the not so distant future. Suddenly closed borders and reduced merit based LEGAL immigration sounds much more appealing does it not? Lets do it for the moose ;-)
KarlBAndersen1
distinguished member(886)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/06/2017 10:18AM
Don't forget that at one time the Arrowhead was the home of a large population of Woodland Caribou.
Our presence, along with de-forestation, changed the environment and its ability to support the diet needs of the caribou.
But the open areas created the PERFECT!! environment for the moose. All through most of the 20th century moose were actually used to feed the logging camps! They were "limitless".
Man is the single most significant ingredient in any of our geographical changes these days.
We're responsible.
We put wolves there and protect them. They feed on moose that are becoming weaker with climate change and no more logging in the BWCA. It was the logging that created the perfect environment for them
Now it's better for deer.
All we need to do is look in the mirror.
We are the problem.
KarlBAndersen1
distinguished member(886)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/06/2017 10:18AM
Don't forget that at one time the Arrowhead was the home of a large population of Woodland Caribou.
Our presence, along with de-forestation, changed the environment and its ability to support the diet needs of the caribou.
But the open areas created the PERFECT!! environment for the moose. All through most of the 20th century moose were actually used to feed the logging camps! They were "limitless".
Man is the single most significant ingredient in any of our geographical changes these days.
We're responsible.
We put wolves there and protect them. They feed on moose that are becoming weaker with climate change and no more logging in the BWCA. It was the logging that created the perfect environment for them
Now it's better for deer.
All we need to do is look in the mirror.
We are the problem.
Grizzlyman
distinguished member(607)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/06/2017 01:59PM
Karl good post and thought provoking - who's to say what the wilderness "looks like"

We always strive to restore to a certain timeframe, a snapshot. When/what what that snapshot looks like is based only on a measurement.

In this case that measurement seems to be the last hundred + years. Before that? Who knows. Sounds like caribou maybe should be here instead. We arbitrarily decide that this is what the population should look like.

That being said I like seeing moose :)
northallen
distinguished member(698)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/07/2017 03:37PM
Wow. I just got to this thread. I'll give the researchers the benefit of the doubt that they have dutifully and objectively tried to untangle the mystery of declining moose population. I read the article a couple of times and the point that really stuck with me was the deer following man into the woods. The deforestation, creation of open lands and cleared roads into the forest have literally paved the way for deer. The moose preferred thickly forested lands, while the deer do not. Makes sense that the northwest range is basically devoid of moose as there is no vast designated wilderness to shield moose from deer.

I agree with the comments above that man is the furthest upstream culprit. I'd favor a strategy to decrease the deer pop. The author seemed to assume that the MDHA and national whitetail assoc. would try to block and intentional reduction of the population, but I feel they would be willing to forego some deer in Moose range and support the short term increased huntion opportunities.

I disagree with much of the knee-jerk, government is dumb, "duh", can't believe it took this long and this much cash to publish this. No finding is answered with one study, and it is not a researchers job to publish an educated guess.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/07/2017 05:19PM
It shouldn't of taken a million dollars or more to understand something we have known for quite some time. I.e. That moose die from a parasite carried by deer.

As per reducing deer numbers that seems a bit silly on its face even without any exterior pressures against it from hunters. So let's see.......are we going to hire government hunters to go shine and shoot fields of deer at night? And what about private property rights? Maybe I like deer on my land. To assign blame to any interest group is shallow thinking. It's all about habitat change and that is directly related to population growth.

Nope......The reality is the deer are here to stay and the moose will inevitably be pushed deeper and further north.
11/07/2017 09:22PM
MT have you read what they did for the study? If you think that could be done for less than a million I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya lol

Everybody DID NOT know that parasites killed moose, they thought it was the case— thinking and knowing are 2 different things. As someone who did research in the past I can tell you many times you think you know what will happen or what the results will be even as you collect the data— but then are proven wrong ...Moose decompose in a matter of hours due to their insulation so they had none to minimal evidence of brain worms worms until this study.

To manage the deer herd it is really easy...it is basic science. No government shooters or extra costs... they just increase permits or add doe permits or increase the number of seasons or season lengths...based on a formula and the numbers they want to get to. I don’t know about other states but MN DNR biologists know how to increase or decrease the deer herd pretty easily.

You can argue whether they should decrease the herd or intervene, might be a moot point since wolf management is off the table for now as well.

T

mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/08/2017 08:35AM
Well stated Tim and I concede all your points without exception.

Ultimately however would you not be inclined to agree that the habitat provided by human expansion will continue to favor the deer to the exclusion and detriment of the moose? I'm not trying to be a contrarian but rather looking at the bottom line.

It would be interesting to ascertain just how closely the species could interact before negative consequences develop. Are the moose adversely impacted only through areas which have strong populations of whitetail?
Grizzlyman
distinguished member(607)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/08/2017 09:45AM
My original post was somewhat huperbolic. I will disagree that deer and moose can't coexist. They do. Period. All over the world.

The difference here is now the abundance of this parasite (is it new?) and wolves (whether or not you choose to believe wolves are important in this discussion).
11/08/2017 11:28AM
Boy, it was known about the brain and liver parasites as long as I can remember. I find it weird it took "millions" to figure this out. But I also think the wolf population has as big of a role. Put the two problems together and boom... They are gone.
Looks tho me both deer and wolves need to be managed better.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/10/2017 06:51AM
It would make perfect sense to me that many of the moose killed through wolf predation is because of being debilitated by the parasite. Moose and wolf have also coexisted for a very long time.
Waleye_hntr
Guest Paddler
 
11/12/2017 08:14AM
I came across a moose with brain worms while deer hunting the other day. It was really hard to watch. She was pacing around very distressed while tilting her head to the side.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/12/2017 09:23AM
Waleye-hntr in what area did you see this moose? Thanks.

This this-article makes it sound like people knew that this parasite was killing the moose 100 years ago. Good article, I think!!

It also sounds like more then 50 years ago we knew deer had something to do with this parasite.

Anyone know the wolf population 50 years ago? 100 years ago?
Waleye_hntr
Guest Paddler
 
11/12/2017 09:54AM
quote ellahallely: "Waleye-hntr in what area did you see this moose? Thanks.


This this-article makes it sound like people knew that this parasite was killing the moose 100 years ago. Good article, I think!!

It also sounds like more then 50 years ago we knew deer had something to do with this parasite.

Anyone know the wolf population 50 years ago? 100 years ago?"

My property is 10 miles northeast of Grand Marais. I don’t see moose here often. It’s definitely a tough life being a moose in northeast Mn between wolves, bears, ticks, brain work, and flies. Habitat creation and predator control are the two things we can do for moose but we are unwilling.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/12/2017 10:12AM
Thanks. I know a gal J. Hovland whose family lived in that area many years ago.
JackpineJim
distinguished member(558)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/12/2017 12:46PM
quote mastertangler: "It would make perfect sense to me that many of the moose killed through wolf predation is because of being debilitated by the parasite. Moose and wolf have also coexisted for a very long time. "
That's it, the DNR should put one of these bumper stickers on the moose they collar and and the wolves would change their ways and the moose could finally live in peace.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
11/12/2017 08:58PM
quote ellahallely: "Waleye-hntr in what area did you see this moose? Thanks.


This this-article makes it sound like people knew that this parasite was killing the moose 100 years ago. Good article, I think!!

It also sounds like more then 50 years ago we knew deer had something to do with this parasite.

Anyone know the wolf population 50 years ago? 100 years ago?"


Like I said many times it is a cumulative thing and many weak links in the chain brings the herd down. Maine says the reason there is mainly ticks. Yes wolves are taking a great number of calves. Brain disease etc.
Why did the Moose disappear so fast from the northwest part of the State. It was not wolves nor I don't think brain worm either. They don't know.

Back like 1980 the Mn DNR was thinking of stocking Woodland caribou in the BWCA. The number 1 site was Little Saganaga area because that area had about the lowest deer population so less chance of the Caribou getting infected with that brain worm that also kills them.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
11/12/2017 09:31PM
Also a interesting thought about Elk introduction: Successfulness of numerous elk reintroduction efforts in eastern US have been marred by documented Brainworm mortality from 3% in Michigan, 24% in Kentucky, to 50% in Pennsylvania. Scientific studies conclusively prove that elk can perpetuate this disease by shedding infective larva but do not necessarily die from Brainworm. Brainworm in elk and mule deer is devastating; Brainworm in moose is catastrophic. Minnesota moose population plummeted so drastically that the 2013 and 2014 Minnesota moose hunting seasons were cancelled.

So could Elk decrease Moose populations also by this worm. Evidence says yes,but at a much lower rate than deer. But they can perpetuate and spread the worm,thus potential more dead Moose.
emptynest56
distinguished member(867)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/13/2017 03:48PM
IMO the deer are the bogeyman for the shared parasite as well as the non-return of north shore white pine. There is no way deer were found in today's concentrations back when pine was the king of the shore. Deer prefer the top candles of white pine for winter food and will browse it till the seedling dies. With today's deer concentrations, the huge stands of pine of the 1800's would have been impossible.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/15/2017 07:42AM
quote JackpineJim: "quote mastertangler: "It would make perfect sense to me that many of the moose killed through wolf predation is because of being debilitated by the parasite. Moose and wolf have also coexisted for a very long time. "
That's it, the DNR should put one of these bumper stickers on the moose they collar and and the wolves would change their ways and the moose could finally live in peace.
"


Jim the point I was making is that wolves and moose have had a symbiotic relationship for eons. While there are fluctuations in population they have coexisted without being eliminated from historical ranges. Thus it seems logical to conclude that something besides the wolves, I.e. the parasite, might be the greater problem?

Light hearted sarcasm can be humorous and I do enjoy it from time to time. Mean spirited intellectually dishonest sarcasm not so much. I am not sure where your comment belongs.
JackpineJim
distinguished member(558)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/15/2017 08:33PM
quote mastertangler: "quote JackpineJim: "quote mastertangler: "It would make perfect sense to me that many of the moose killed through wolf predation is because of being debilitated by the parasite. Moose and wolf have also coexisted for a very long time. "
That's it, the DNR should put one of these bumper stickers on the moose they collar and and the wolves would change their ways and the moose could finally live in peace.
"



Jim the point I was making is that wolves and moose have had a symbiotic relationship for eons. While there are fluctuations in population they have coexisted without being eliminated from historical ranges. Thus it seems logical to conclude that something besides the wolves, I.e. the parasite, might be the greater problem?


Light hearted sarcasm can be humorous and I do enjoy it from time to time. Mean spirited intellectually dishonest sarcasm not so much. I am not sure where your comment belongs. "


Mastertangler, my sincerest apologies. I did get your point and I intended only light hearted sarcasm, not directed at you for sure. When I saw the word coexist I immediately thought of the bumper sticker and the two wildly different aspect of the word. I'm sorry I caused you to wonder about my motivations and promise to be more careful/thoughtful in the future. Peace
mastertangler
distinguished member(5557)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/16/2017 08:04AM
Jim no need for any apology.......I was not offended just curious to where you were coming from. Thank you for clarity..........yes it was a funny post in that light.

I see the coexist bumper stickers and admire the innocence. Truly it is a noble aspiration but when we have a religion whose fundamental written doctrine includes death and discrimination to those who won't believe I do not have as much confidence.

I am reminded of the clip in the movie "Mars Attacks" where Jack Nicholson asks the alien "why can't we all just get along".



Why can't we all just get along
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/10/2017 08:23AM
I am hearing mn dnr with be changing deer pemit zones and numbers for 2018. It is my understanding dnr is try to increase number of deer takin in areas where the moose live.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/10/2017 08:41AM
quote ellahallely: "I am hearing mn dnr with be changing deer pemit zones and numbers for 2018. It is my understanding dnr is try to increase number of deer takin in areas where the moose live."

They already did in 2017. This moose decline is bigger than this one issue. Look at the inner BWCA-less than 1 deer per square mile and moose still declining. In Maine it is too many ticks due to warmer winters-ticks survive. Yes wolves are part of the picture also. Nature attacks from many angles at times.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/10/2017 08:48AM
Agreed. I am hoping the fires and some logging might help. Those are the areas I am seeing the most moose.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/10/2017 09:11AM
quote ellahallely: "Agreed. I am hoping the fires and some logging might help. Those are the areas I am seeing the most moose."

I often wondered at least short term the snail stage(brain disease) could be eliminated with snails getting killed in hot fires?
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2143)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/10/2017 12:05PM
quote Waleye_hntr: "I came across a moose with brain worms while deer hunting the other day. It was really hard to watch. She was pacing around very distressed while tilting her head to the side."
Yep, horrid stuff to watch an animal deteriorate from meningeal worm ( Link). I have treated some rescued llamas for that and it's a sad thing to watch the severely infected. Weakened, loss of balance and/or affected eyesight--can hardly imagine it surviving in the wilds. Essentially, the worms travel to the brain resulting in neurological damage.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/10/2017 06:29PM
quote mjmkjun: "quote Waleye_hntr: "I came across a moose with brain worms while deer hunting the other day. It was really hard to watch. She was pacing around very distressed while tilting her head to the side."
Yep, horrid stuff to watch an animal deteriorate from meningeal worm ( Link). I have treated some rescued llamas for that and it's a sad thing to watch the severely infected. Weakened, loss of balance and/or affected eyesight--can hardly imagine it surviving in the wilds. Essentially, the worms travel to the brain resulting in neurological damage. "


Area hunting would be interesting. Even within 20 miles or so if you got a secret area.
I wonder like many parasites and snails etc. These longer summers of recent years gives longer for many creatures populations to explode.

A little change of subject,but read years ago if Bighorn sheep can't get so much cold weather a type a lung worm prospers in them.
ellahallely
distinguished member (372)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/15/2017 06:19AM
Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.
arctic
distinguished member(5026)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
12/15/2017 02:20PM
CrookedPaddler1: "
yep problem solved ---- It's the wolves!



http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/4371657-lake-superiors-last-caribou-herds-lake-superior-caribou-brink "


Of course, if you have caribou trapped on an island they will get wiped out if wolves get there---a no-brainer. Wolves and moose on a vast landscape are a whole different matter. They have co-existed just fine for thousands of years...
LindenTree3
distinguished member(2434)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/15/2017 04:14PM
Agreed Arctic,

I enjoyed the article, however if anyone is associating the decline in the number of Moose in Minnesota with that article, they are comparing Apples and Oranges.

I read that article when it first came out a number of days ago, and wondered if it would make it in this thread.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/15/2017 05:10PM
Caribou I see were first identified on Slate Island in 1907.
. With the highest Caribou population in the world per square mile at one time I would think they must of damaged their habitat to some extent. You look at Slate Island itself it really isn't that big.

Wolves in the past: Movements of caribou to the mainland were not recorded during that winter but two wolves crossed the ice to the Slate Islands and substantially reduced calf survival and overall population numbers until 1996, after which the wolves were no longer observed (Bergerud et al., 2007). Wolf sign was again observed on the Slate Islands in 2003
and 2004 (Bergerud et al., 2007)


Now Its ironic we go from all Caribou-no predator to maybe just wolves which will probably than disappear for lack of food source,except for a rabbit or two.

It sounds like in the past with more consistent ice both caribou and wolf came and left.
In the long run it would be better for both species long term existdent's(sp) if a regulated wolf hunt would take place. A extreme at either end is not the answer.

Slate Island was on my bucket list to go see the Caribou. Well I waited to long.
I wonder if just left to biologists if we would of controlled the wolves on the Caribou Islands and maybe stocked them on Isle Royale?
Man in many ways effects the outcome. With recent years warmer winters and less ice we probably affected all situations.
I wonder if the BWCA ever had many Caribou? You read of a few always present. Did habitat change ,did we kill them all or maybe brainworm?
Pinetree
distinguished member(12717)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/15/2017 05:26PM
LindenTree3: "Agreed Arctic,


I enjoyed the article, however if anyone is associating the decline in the number of Moose in Minnesota with that article, they are comparing Apples and Oranges.


I read that article when it first came out a number of days ago, and wondered if it would make it in this thread."


Agree on all accounts and because it was a apple and orange comparison I myself for the time being did not post it. But glad it was for I like talking and discussing and sharing info on wildlife etc.. So much to learn where ecosystems keep changing. Very interesting situation. Also interesting the three Islands had moose(Isle Royale) or Caribou(Slate etc.),but not both species.
CrookedPaddler1
distinguished member(1393)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/18/2017 09:44AM
Wolf populations are increasing in northern Minnesota. I have pretty much been around this area since the mid 80's. Really until the early 2000's, it was rare to see a wolf. Know I bet I see a wolf a week or more. Whenever you increase the predetor population to the level it currently is, you will have issues.

I have a neighbor who has cattle and sheep. He has always had a problem with Coyotes, but he could manage that via trapping. How he has regular wolf predation and sees more wolves than coyotes.

I love the fact that wolves are in this country, I get a thrill everytime I see one. But the bottom line facts are that they are over populated. I talked to a trapper that had a tag the year that we could legally trap, he said he caught and released at least two dozen before he found one that was not covered in mange.

I am not saying that wolves are the only reason that moose or caribou are on the decline, but you cannot in good conscious say that it is not a reason.....unless you are trying to manipulate data to prove a political point.
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13181)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
12/19/2017 12:17PM
Can someone here tell me why the moose population on Isle Royale has tripled in the last ten years? Click on the Link
inspector13
distinguished member(4033)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
12/19/2017 12:25PM

Ten years ago, with the stroke of a pen, George W Bush de-funded the free distribution of moose condoms due to relentless pressure from the far right.

 
Reply    Reply with Quote    Print Top Bottom Previous Next