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missmolly
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11/23/2017 12:38PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Over the years, I've written various fishing articles and rarely do nowadays because I hate to have the demands of an article intrude upon fishing. If you're with a guide, you have to interview him and there's pressure for big fish photos, as well as other photos. I want a fishing rod in my hand, not a camera.

Likewise, I wouldn't want my own fishing show. I've been watching Castaway Canada with my Amazon Prime and it's a typical modern fishing show with multiple camera angles, including drone and underwater shots. You and your cameraperson would be forever moving here and there to acquire yet another angle rather than simply fishing and witnessing. You'd be more concerned about what your viewers would see than seeing what's in front of you.

If you're curious about Castaway Canada, watch the first episode for its ending, where the German woman catches her first musky. Her joy and gratitude are stirring.

The third episode is also worth watching for the brook trout and the cool place where they catch them.

I like the wooden boats in the fourth episode.

And in all episodes, I'm kind of surprised at how few fish they catch, perhaps because their attention is taken by filming instead of fishing.

So, would you want a fishing show?
 
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yogi59weedr
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11/23/2017 05:01PM  
I enjoy the quiet when I fish. So I think my show would be pretty boring
 
mastertangler
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11/23/2017 07:30PM  
Of course I would want a fishing show. It means "you've arrived" if your making a living via fishing. And of course there is the nice paycheck. Scott Martin is an acquaintance of mine and his show is just fun TV. He is just as nice a guy in person as he is on TV and I say good for him.......I also occasionally say "it must be nice" ;-)

I have spent the last 5 hours this evening going through my fishing equipment and the word "insane" keeps coming to the forefront of my mind ;-) It would seem that I fish for a living considering the amount of equipment and tackle I own. A lifetime collection........and now I hardly go at all except for a bit in the summer and my canoe trip. That has to change!
 
bassnet
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11/24/2017 08:40AM  
No show for me....but there was a time i dreamed of fishing tournaments for a living. I enjoyed all of the scene: piloting a boat at 60-70 mph for 20, 30 or more miles, measuring my day in total pounds of a 4 or 5 fish limit, preparing rods by changing line and sharpening hooks...and the best part: every sense i possess tuned to getting a quality strike, to entice, to outwit, to factor the weather. Thousands of dollars on every cast. I didn’t break into that level, but trying, it was AWESOME!!!!!!
 
Lotw
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11/24/2017 09:15AM  
I've guided several "big name" fishermen and absolutely despised it for all the reasons you mentioned.
I also saw first hand a lot of the fake stuff that goes on. changing clothes for pictures to make it look like its a different fish on different days was popular. as was handing the fish to a different guy for pictures. Changing lures in the fishes mouth for pictures was popular too. I was amazed at how few fish needed to be caught to film a show! I have very little respect for most in the fishing and hunting industry and absolutely refuse to guide any of them any more.
 
11/24/2017 11:37AM  
With my catch-rate, I don't think I need to worry about it:) (It would be the fishing equivalent of that TV channel I heard about: that just shows a fireplace...)
 
QueticoMike
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11/24/2017 12:27PM  
People tell me all of the time I need a local fishing show for the Great Miami River. I think for a second that would be great, but I wouldn't want anybody to know my fishing spots :)

Here's a video of the first time I ever attempted a video on the GMR.......

Fishing video
 
mastertangler
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11/24/2017 01:24PM  
quote Lotw: "I've guided several "big name" fishermen and absolutely despised it for all the reasons you mentioned.
I also saw first hand a lot of the fake stuff that goes on. changing clothes for pictures to make it look like its a different fish on different days was popular. as was handing the fish to a different guy for pictures. Changing lures in the fishes mouth for pictures was popular too. I was amazed at how few fish needed to be caught to film a show! I have very little respect for most in the fishing and hunting industry and absolutely refuse to guide any of them any more. "


Whoa Nellie! Lots of shady stuff going on there. Its probably much the same for many of the TV shows. My Dad says he witnessed Roland Martin doing much the same.

On the other hand I get it. No guarantee your going to catch any more good ones so make the best of what you have. They are paying people (film crew) to produce a product so I clearly understand the need to utilize what ever advantages that they can. As a guide I would probably care less........little different day and I still get paid.

I took a big name writer of several prominent salt water magazines on a couple of offshore trips. He had little bottom fishing experience but rather played with pelagics and sharks mostly. He thought bottom fishing was mostly childs play compared to flying a kite for Sailfish but after the 2nd trip where I smoked him soundly he confessed it was far more difficult than he realized. It was amusing, he had to change hats whenever fish pictures were taken as he would then send the fish pic into sponsors and he would get paid. I guess he was smart, he was wearing free Costa sunglasses............. but I could never see myself being so disingenuous.
 
missmolly
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11/24/2017 01:31PM  
Great video, Mike!

Changing clothes and lures, Lotw? Man, that's sneaky snakey and pathetic. One of the reasons I like Uncut Angling is because they show lost fish and fishless trips. Then when you see them boat a beast, you know it's real.
 
Lotw
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11/24/2017 02:01PM  
quote missmolly: "Great video, Mike!


Changing clothes and lures, Lotw? Man, that's sneaky snakey and pathetic. One of the reasons I like Uncut Angling is because they show lost fish and fishless trips. Then when you see them boat a beast, you know it's real. "


It gets worse than that Molly! Uncut is a great show and aaron is the real deal and pretty much a nutjob......That's one of the very few shows I watch.
 
11/24/2017 02:28PM  
I watch a show called Angler West. It is pretty much one guy behind the camera and every show he is with someone different. Usually a guide and a couple of anglers that work for the sponsors. Not a bad show but they are constantly pushing products.

Not to get too negative but the fishing industry has always struck me as a sales game. They are all selling something and actually do a pretty good job of ruining the places people fish by exploiting them for their own profit. What I like about canoe country is the fishing industry is not there. It is completely off their radar. If they can’t drive to it, build a lodge or fly people in and guide them they don’t know how to make money on it and are not trying to sell you on going there.
 
Savage Voyageur
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11/24/2017 02:47PM  
There is a local fishing show that I like to watch, John Gillespie Woods and Water. I’m sure it’s a lot of work but he makes it look pretty easy. He gets a local guide to show him all the hot spots and then he has a crew filming him and his partners catch fish. Most of the fish are caught by others in the boat.
 
missmolly
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11/24/2017 02:59PM  
quote Lotw: "
quote missmolly: "Great video, Mike!



Changing clothes and lures, Lotw? Man, that's sneaky snakey and pathetic. One of the reasons I like Uncut Angling is because they show lost fish and fishless trips. Then when you see them boat a beast, you know it's real. "



It gets worse than that Molly! Uncut is a great show and aaron is the real deal and pretty much a nutjob......That's one of the very few shows I watch.
"


Aaron is a nutjob. In other words, he's an esteemed member of my tribe.
 
missmolly
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11/24/2017 03:00PM  
Switching lures, clothes, AND hats? Man, they must be killing big fish. That's a lot of time out of the water and a lot of handling.
 
Lotw
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11/24/2017 03:14PM  
quote missmolly: "Switching lures, clothes, AND hats? Man, they must be killing big fish. That's a lot of time out of the water and a lot of handling. "


Absolutely! A lot of it outside in the winter too.
 
mastertangler
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11/24/2017 04:50PM  
quote missmolly: "Switching lures, clothes, AND hats? "


I couldn't help but laugh........my well known writer, and still a friend I might add, hooked a sizable dolphin and started shouting instructions about getting a certain hat from his berth. In the mean time the fish promptly removed itself from his line. The usually quiet and reserved Captain Yuri couldn't help but comment that he might want to focus on catching the fish first before concentrating on how the picture is going to look.
 
missmolly
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11/24/2017 07:31PM  
quote Lotw: "
quote missmolly: "Switching lures, clothes, AND hats? Man, they must be killing big fish. That's a lot of time out of the water and a lot of handling. "



Absolutely! A lot of it outside in the winter too."



Down to their tidy whities in January? I hear George of Seinfeld yelling, "Shrinkage! Shrinkage!"

No wonder you nix that gig nowadays!



You reinforced my point, MT. Imagining focusing on a sponsor's hat instead of enjoying the fish.
 
Lotw
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11/25/2017 06:57AM  
Lol, usually not down to the skivies, just change jackets, sweatshirts ect. White sunglasses on.... white sunglasses off!
Anytime money (and ego) get involved there’s a good chance ethics will go out the window. There’s a lot of money involved in Tv fishing and hunting shows and that can result in some questionable activities. When I was a kid I thought these guys were really special and maybe some of them were but now days I really don’t feel that way.
 
zski
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11/25/2017 09:58AM  
i wouldn't want a show but that's just me.
as for existing shows out there, In Fisherman Doug Stange makes me crazy every time he catches a fish then stands there talking for 15 minutes before releasing it. I'm hollering at the tv 'let it go already!!' and surprised the fish swim away and don't just float belly up upon release.
 
missmolly
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11/25/2017 10:57AM  
quote zski: "i wouldn't want a show but that's just me.
as for existing shows out there, In Fisherman Doug Stange makes me crazy every time he catches a fish then stands there talking for 15 minutes before releasing it. I'm hollering at the tv 'let it go already!!' and surprised the fish swim away and don't just float belly up upon release. "


Me too! I like Doug; he knows a lot, but I don't like how he jabbers while the fish is gasping for water.
 
missmolly
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11/25/2017 10:58AM  
quote Lotw: "Lol, usually not down to the skivies, just change jackets, sweatshirts ect. White sunglasses on.... white sunglasses off!
Anytime money (and ego) get involved there’s a good chance ethics will go out the window. There’s a lot of money involved in Tv fishing and hunting shows and that can result in some questionable activities. When I was a kid I thought these guys were really special and maybe some of them were but now days I really don’t feel that way. "


Thanks for posting in this thread. I learned a lot from you. I used to fish for muskies with Patricia Strutz, the "Blond and her Boat." She largely quit the business because of all the backbiting. She now fishes for fun...as it was meant to be.
 
11/25/2017 12:32PM  
quote Lotw: "
quote missmolly: "Great video, Mike!



Changing clothes and lures, Lotw? Man, that's sneaky snakey and pathetic. One of the reasons I like Uncut Angling is because they show lost fish and fishless trips. Then when you see them boat a beast, you know it's real. "



It gets worse than that Molly! Uncut is a great show and aaron is the real deal and pretty much a nutjob......That's one of the very few shows I watch.
"
love that kids shows , great attitude , also there's alot of fishing shows that they spend over a week+ making , to make a 1/2 television show and it makes them look like they know what they're doing . read about a pair of canadians that use to do a fishing show , cant remember the shows name(made in the early 90's ?) , (hank and another guy) they received a citation for netting fish for there show. how sad is that.
 
11/25/2017 12:50PM  
quote QueticoMike: "People tell me all of the time I need a local fishing show for the Great Miami River. I think for a second that would be great, but I wouldn't want anybody to know my fishing spots :)


Here's a video of the first time I ever attempted a video on the GMR.......


Fishing video "
QM people dont want to watch smallies being caught every show , just kidding Mike ;)
 
mastertangler
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11/25/2017 01:07PM  
quote Lotw:
Anytime money (and ego) get involved there’s a good chance ethics will go out the window.. "


I am going to disagree with such a blanket statement. Lots and lots of business people who believe strongly In their product or brand often to the point of giving others the perception of having a big ego and yet are ethical and have integrity. Such people are rather the norm than not IMO.

I believe it has more to do with morality. While I am a strong proponent of free market capitalism it's Achilles heel is it requires a morally upright society to function correctly.
 
QueticoMike
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11/26/2017 03:18PM  
quote zski: "i wouldn't want a show but that's just me.
as for existing shows out there, In Fisherman Doug Stange makes me crazy every time he catches a fish then stands there talking for 15 minutes before releasing it. I'm hollering at the tv 'let it go already!!' and surprised the fish swim away and don't just float belly up upon release. "


Yep, I don't to see the fish for more than 10 seconds.......let it go already, I hear ya......
 
QueticoMike
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11/26/2017 03:20PM  
quote shock: "
quote QueticoMike: "People tell me all of the time I need a local fishing show for the Great Miami River. I think for a second that would be great, but I wouldn't want anybody to know my fishing spots :)



Here's a video of the first time I ever attempted a video on the GMR.......



Fishing video "
QM people dont want to watch smallies being caught every show , just kidding Mike ;)"


Geeez, who doesn't want to watch me fish all day for smallmouth! haha I have some pike videos too if you want to look them up on youtube. They are small pike compared to the ones up north. A 30 inch pike in these parts is big. Just Google - great miami river pike - the first thing that pops up is two videos of me.
 
Bdubguy
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11/28/2017 12:48PM  
Disappointing to hear some of these stories.

QM, nice video and fish.

I grew up watching Al Linder and the Infisherman gang and Babe Winkelman. I remember being annoyed at Babe when all he seemed to be using was a fuzzy grub. Didn't seem to matter what he was fishing for, always pushing the fuzzy grub. Probably why I have a tackle box full of them....

I wouldn't want my own show, I prefer to be out of the spot light, not in it....
 
FishermanTed
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11/29/2017 11:31AM  
I too grew up with In-Fisherman and Al Lindner. They were one of the first to bring fishing mainstream in terms of marketing, making it accessible, fun and all in a teaching environment. A legend he is. Babe too. And Roland Martin and Bill Dance and all the others of that generation.

I am now a lodge owner and 90% of my advertising and marketing is you guessed it, fishing shows. In the past 7 summers I have done I think 15 TV shows. From the small regional shows (The Wilderness Journal) to niche (The New Fly Fisher) to National (Fishin Canada with Angelo Viola) to international (Al Lindner, James Lindner, Troy Lindner, Dan Lindner and Babe Winkelman). Between Lindner media and Babe I have shot 6 shows. Last winter I co-created a new TV show for Lindner Media (called the Ontario Experience), helped sell it to the province and had Al and Troy film one of the first episodes at Hawk Lake Lodge. That new TV series will air after the New Year.

So, that is my background. I see the shows develop, shot, edited in the backrooms, marketed, aired (and re-aired), social media and finally the fishermen that walk through the doors as a result of you watching them. I have fished and been a part of nearly every show shot, meaning I have been in the boat catching along with these guys. I know what they are looking for, what works etc., and how these guys think.

So, after all that here is what I have seen firsthand, heard from others in the business along with some observations:

1. Nearly every host loves the sport. To an extreme. You are on the water 200 days a year you better. Al Lindner probably more than anyone I have ever seen. During one shoot after he got all the footage he needed he asked if he could stay an extra night to keep fishing he was having so much fun.

2. These guys put in a TON of hours to make a quality show. And oftentimes they have no choice. Their shoot schedule during a summer is extreme, with long hauls, tight deadlines and virtually no room for maneuverability. They book the shoot sometimes a year in advance. A fishery/lodge can't move the dates nor can the production crew. They have a few days to get 22 minutes of footage for a 30 minute show. If the fish or weather aren’t cooperating they don’t pack it in. Just the opposite. They go out longer, earlier etc. 20 hour days to get that one shot or fish to make the show. One time during a shoot for one of these guys I went out at 4 AM for 2 days in a row to help locate some big fish to make sure that we could get the show we needed for the camera as the sun rose at dawn. Another time (many actually) I fished in a trailing boat to help locate fish that we could put the host on. I could go on.

3. I have seen and or heard credible stories that sometimes due to timing and other obstacles the shot is not always what it seems. For example, in order for a hookset to be filmed a cameraman would have to film continuously for 18 hours a day. Not feasible with a slow bite. So fake hooksets are common in the industry. Deceptive? I would say not really. The fish was caught and this is television and its more fun for the viewer to see the fight from hook to net. I have also seen fish being staged, meaning caught off camera then re-caught. A little more grey but same fishery and again the result is a fun show to watch. I have heard many other stories as well.

4. But being on the marketing end of the stick I can now see why some of this stuff happens. You don’t get the shot you don’t get the show. And you may never get it that season. Every show I have heard of is paid for by someone. No show means no cash. So it is imperative to make it work.

5. You may think you are a great fishermen, I certainly did. Until you fish next to a pro who does this for a living. These guys are truly experts. I have learned more from being in a boat with Al and Babe than I ever could doing anything else. Their knowledge and experience is unparalleled. I was schooled multiple times in MY OWN fishery. I call these guys every now and then when I have a question about fishing and they are happy to share their knowledge. Words can’t describe how good they are. Like any expert in any field.

6. Sponsors sponsor shows. Tackle, rods, boats, clothing, you name it. Know that going in. That being said if you can’t catch fish with a grub like someone said they wouldn’t use it.

I admire the dedication of these guys. Their passion. And how they have merged the two to educate and excite generations of future fishermen. I will never forget seeing Al talk to guests in the lodge at happy hour and how excited they were. Or Babe showing us his favorite lures. Or Colin McKeown teaching people how to fly-fish. If you ever get the chance to fish with these guys or see them in action don’t hesitate for a second. It is special indeed.

-FT


 
mastertangler
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11/29/2017 03:08PM  
Thanks Fisherman Ted.......that was a breath of fresh air to what was turning into unfair bashing IMO. Many of those same guys are my fishing heros. How cool would it be to own a lodge that they wanted to come and fish at.
 
krick
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11/29/2017 04:29PM  
Closest thing I will ever come to a fishing show is my gopro camera on my head. LOL

Here's a trip I took a few years ago...... Rose
 
QueticoMike
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11/29/2017 05:39PM  
FT - thanks for sharing!
 
Lotw
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11/29/2017 05:52PM  
I don’t want to be labeled a master troller so I won’t comment any more.
 
zski
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11/29/2017 06:05PM  
FT - thanks, well said.
 
mastertangler
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11/30/2017 05:58AM  
quote Lotw: "I don’t want to be labeled a master troller so I won’t comment any more."


Your entitled to your opinion Lotw. We have heard both sides and both sides had some compelling perspectives which had the ring of truth to it despite being on opposite sides of the fence.

Heres a thought.........My friend who writes for some prominent magazines might just see his writing as a business. AND if its a business he would be able to write off all his fishing expenses including guided trips, tackle and related expenses. Suddenly the importance of getting that fish picture with a pristine Loomis hat becomes lots more important ;-)
 
11/30/2017 06:52PM  
I thought about at one time then decided that the day I would think I guess I have to go fishing as it's my job, I would quit fishing so I never pursued it. Also never had a desire to have to put up with people who think they should catch fish because they paid me, even though they don't have one iota as to what their doing.
 
mastertangler
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12/01/2017 05:56AM  
I sort of thought that as well Tony........would I want to go fishing after "working" all day guiding. But that seems not to be the case. I have several friends who guide and what do they do on their days off? Go fishing ;-)

Actually its sort of a reasonable expectation.......that is, to expect to catch fish since I am paying someone for their expertise even though I am clueless as to how to catch the fish. Thats why I am paying you. But its fishing, the don't always bite,
 
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