BWCA Fear Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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missmolly
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11/23/2017 06:22PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
So, I've been reading "Canoeing Wild Rivers" by Cliff Jacobson. Unlike www.bwca.com, he tenders little time to bears and even though he's canoed in the territory of polar and grizzly bears, he doesn't fear them. Basically, he says if you keep a clean camp, you'll be fine. However, he does paddle with fear: fear of hypothermia, fear of getting lost while crossing a huge lake in the fog through a maze of islands, fear of injury in rapids, fear of being crushed by ice, fear of breaking something on a portage or failing to properly grade some whitewater, fear of slipping while lining a boat and being swept away, etc. He quotes another accomplished barren lands paddler who admitted he's afraid 90% of the time.

I once interviewed a guy who was crossing the top of North America, from the end of the Aleutians to Greenland, by kayak and skis, and he said that it's hard to stay properly afraid in the barren lands, that the monotony can start you daydreaming and then you die.

For those who paddle the barren lands and those who don't, do you paddle and camp with fear? If so, what scares you?

For me, it's the little things. I told a story of my hand being enveloped in white gas blue fire this past summer. LT3 had the same thing happen to him. It happened so quickly and I escaped injury, but if I'd been burned in the wilderness, there'd be a lot of pain between me and a white, clean hospital room. Likewise with turning an ankle. Lightning scares me too, partly because it hit my tent once. I'm also afraid that someone will die while I'm away, but again largely because it once happened to me. Crossing a big lake with a full load scares me too. I just don't think I could recover all my gear if I tipped and that would commence the suffering too.
 
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11/23/2017 07:41PM  
I have a healthy fear while on trips now. I'm in my mid 50's and realize when I'm in a dangerous situation like crossing a big lake in a wind. In my 20's and 30's I didn't think of the consequences very much.

I fear and respect lightning. I fear wind the most I guess. Falling trees on either me or my canoe.
 
mastertangler
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11/23/2017 07:49PM  
Well put Miss Molly, good thread. I can clearly understand the part of the monotony of the Barrens lulling one into a dream like state where your mind starts to wander. That can happen anywhere actually. Get tired, lose focus, get in trouble.
 
Gadfly
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11/23/2017 08:38PM  
I do have fear of a disaster happening on a trip. It's not necessarily anything specify and usually I only have these fears when I'm at home planning a trip, not while I'm on the trip. I live my life in a way that I try to avoid danger. If I was paddling a big lake or through fog or wind I would paddle shoreline only. No matter how much extra time it took. On my winter trips I split wood on my knees so even if I miss badly my hatchet/axe will hit the ice and not my foot or leg. I try not to live in fear, I try to stay aware and control what I can control.
 
SaganagaJoe
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11/23/2017 09:43PM  
I try to keep myself out of situations where I could get hurt or there could be an accident, or try to maintain as much control as possible.

That being said, Tto things make me nervous more than anything else in the woods: cougars and lightning.

 
11/23/2017 10:35PM  
Lightning and storms bother me a little. Bears, hardly worry about. Now meeting a bull moose on a portage in September, that kinda raises some hairs. Haha.
Big nasty water with rain coming in sheets and somehow your a little further than you like to be from shore, that kinda gets the blood flowing too.
When I had a dog, I always worried about her getting into things like porcupines and skunks if there are any up there.
Slipping on rocks too I worried some. I took my worst spills up in woodland caribou.
I just don't know how concerned you are about something to label your emotion fear. Part of the fun is when you are in these predicaments and figure out how your going to handle them.
 
Minnesotian
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11/23/2017 11:50PM  
Wind. That’s my biggest fear. It dictates so much of my travel. Listening to the wind blow and blow all through the night sets my nerves on end, thinking about the next day and having to tack with that wind or fight it.

Once, I was staying at a campground up in Northern Minnesota and a gentle wind was blowing the whole night when BAM! I heard the sound of a cracking tree close to my tent and the smell of a sweetly hewn tree filled the air. I bolted out of the tent as fast as possible and found a perfectly healthy aspen tree had cracked and fell over a good 20 feet above the ground and not 50 feet from my tent. It was that moment that I began to respect wind, at any velocity, and the damage it can cause.

When I am solo I am always alert for every step I take, every time I use a knife, every time I flick a fishing rod, every pull of the canoe paddle. But yet I am more relaxed then when I am at my job or doing the daily grind. Its a contradiction that keeps pulling me back to the outdoors.
 
dicecupmaker
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11/24/2017 12:53AM  
Worry is like praying for bad things to happen.
 
11/24/2017 05:58AM  
By the time I had begun paddling in earnest, I was getting old (59). I was already aware of 2 things, my inexperience and my mortality. So yes, I was properly scared, especially during my first-week-of-June solos in the BW, beginning after only a year and a half experience.
 
SourisMan
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11/24/2017 06:39AM  
Wind always gets my attention. That's one of the things I like about solo trips, I can stay off the water any time I want. No need for a group decision. I also tend to take routes through smaller lakes for this reason, although I have crossed many of the big ones.

As others have said, I'm also mindful of a turned ankle. I walk carefully, particularly when alone. Nothing wrong with a slower, more careful pace.
 
mastertangler
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11/24/2017 06:51AM  
I have a friend from way back whose primary focus is one of fear. He is continually concerned about his health and safety. Every action is scrutinized and analyzed with how it might lead to an injury. Hanging out with him rubbed a bit of that off on me as far as analyzing potentially harmful situations but it is certainly no way to go through life.

My Bible says that I haver not been given the spirit of fear but rather a sound mind. Fear can live and dwell within a person (such as my friend) and it can rob and quite frankly wreck your life. Fear is debilitating and can hamper rational thought. It can also destroy your health as well.........what is worry? Nothing more than fear.

I separate fear and wisdom (prudence). Its the old saying........whats the worst that can happen? How much risk am I willing to tolerate? And to what end? There is a difference between taking chances on the battlefield as a solider fighting against evil and paddling across a big lake because you don't want to paddle around that big bay. Both may experience fear but the reasons they have put their lives on the line are vastly different.

 
KarlBAndersen1
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11/24/2017 06:51AM  
I fear the day coming when I can't do it any more.
 
11/24/2017 07:24AM  
I'm aware and respectful of a lot of things that can create problems, but the only thing I'd say I'm "afraid" of is me, or someone in the group taking a deep hook.
 
QueticoMike
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11/24/2017 07:49AM  
It is the wind for me. People always ask aren't you afraid of the bears or the wolves? Do you carry a gun? There is a better chance of me getting hurt driving to Quetico than spending time in Quetico. Wind can be spooky when traveling on big water. Wind can also be scary during storms while on shore with trees snapping off.
 
11/24/2017 08:31AM  
Unfortunately people.
Had a frighting experience when I was a lot younger. Thankfully noting came of it, but it's left me with an apprehensiveness when encountering strangers off the grid. I've never had an as direct of danger or problem sense, but it's probably my biggest worry when headed out.
This last year I solo hiked a BWCA trail. Later in the afternoon 2 men came into my camp looking for a place to set up. They were nice and after a short talk moved on. But that's what got my mind going.
 
hobbydog
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11/24/2017 09:42AM  
I have always been a risk taker. Part of the reason I solo is to fill that need. But I know my limits. Fast water scares me, if there is any doubt I portage around. Wind I can sit out. I always leave my exit date somewhat open ended to not have to take unnecessary risk. I have had way more falls than I like to talk about. There were times when I was being extra careful and still fell. It is probably the thing I should fear most. However, lightning is my biggest fear. No control over it whatsoever and no place to hide. Animals are very low on the list.
 
muddyfeet
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11/24/2017 10:33AM  
While it is important to mitigate against legitimate fears and risks, half of the real adventure is dealing with the fears inside your head.
 
11/24/2017 10:44AM  
Going solo and being on big water put the twist of fear in my belly.
I think fear is one emotion that helps keep us alive.

“If you fear nothing, then you are not brave. You are merely too foolish to be afraid.”
Laurell K. Hamilton
 
WHendrix
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11/24/2017 11:26AM  
For me it is mostly about weather related things, as many have noted. At age 74 I do worry some about falling, mostly when I'm loading or unloading at a rocky portage landing. That's a good (bad actually) place to twist or break an ankle. Other than that I'm pretty relaxed about things. Carrying some sort of communication device, in my case a DeLorme Inreach, helps reduce the anxiety.

Bill
 
11/24/2017 12:14PM  
quote jcavenagh: "Going solo and being on big water put the twist of fear in my belly.
"


This is also my biggest fear,
I recently bagged my dream solo in Alaska (Wood-Tikchik State Park). It would have required a float plane ride into the sticks north of Dillingham, and put me on a 5 lakes chain alone. All the lakes were big water of 2-5 miles across and 20 - 40 miles long. If I could have found a partner I would have done this trip.

Wood- Tikchik State Park
 
JimmyJustice
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11/24/2017 12:39PM  
I have only been afraid of two things in my life. One of them can no longer happen, so I am down to one. It unfortunately, remains a great fear, in large part because I have no control over its happening. (I'm skirting your question MM).

In the BWCA, I try to be mindful of my activities and have worked on my situational awareness, thus changing fear to a level of anxiety/anticipation that I find manageable and reasoned. For example, as others have stated they do, I tend to know my skill level and when I go beyond it, I try to control the environment so that I enjoy the "push beyond" and succeed without injury. For me, it then becomes an activity/goal/event that I do not fear but rather anticipate. Just a mind game I play on myself.

I suspect there are a great many things that I have not done that would (should) be fearful, but I don't know what I don't know and since I have not done them, well I don't know if I will be in fear when I do. Sure there are things I will not do. However, it's not because I am in fear...it's because I know better. :)
 
11/24/2017 01:27PM  
Me or my daughter getting an ear infection out in the woods.
Nearly nothing (routine) hurts worse, and it always seems to strikes at night.
 
11/24/2017 03:35PM  
Wind, storms out of nowhere, and lightning is probably what I "fear" most. When I'm in Grizzley country it is always in the back of my mind. I wouldn't say I am afraid all the time, but on alert... yes!! The stories I have heard about the barren land Grizzley from guides and people that have been around them keeps me from fishing by myself when I'm where they might be present. Food is scarce in the Tundra, and you stand out like a sore thumb.
 
RetiredDave
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11/24/2017 05:15PM  
I mostly solo, and my fears range from wind (on the lake or in camp with falling trees), getting really turned around on a big lake with lots of bays, nooks, and crannies, and slipping and falling. That can happen so quickly, I'm on the ground before I knew what happened!

I'm 67 and I know I have to be careful. When I solo I try to be like the carpenter who measures twice and cuts once. I try to think twice before I act once, only sometimes I act before I think and I'm back on my butt again.

Dave
 
11/24/2017 05:36PM  
I fear getting appendicitis. I fear my spouse getting hurt or sick. I fear lightening. I had spinal fusion in 2001 and I fear hurting my back. I fear the wind.
None of this seems to stop me from backpacking, canoeing or hiking..but I think of them every time I go. :-)

~Good thread
 
DrBobDerrig
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11/24/2017 05:53PM  
quote BasecampMom: "Me or my daughter getting an ear infection out in the woods.
Nearly nothing (routine) hurts worse, and it always seems to strikes at night."


Oh a toothache can get your undivided attention as well..... Amoxicillin and Tylenol(etc) usually come along just in case....

This sounds really stupid but driving from Wi to Alaska and back this past summer is an old 26' box known as an RV. There was lots of nothing between lots of nothing in BC and Yukon territory... and of course no cell phone coverage. That kept me nervous..

dr bob
 
11/24/2017 06:20PM  
quote DrBobDerrig: "
Oh a toothache can get your undivided attention as well..... Amoxicillin and Tylenol(etc) usually come along just in case....
dr bob"


Yes, the toothache hit me on a Alaska Solo paddle last June, luckily it was only a 2 nighter.
On the second nite my problem child tooth, with a root canal became infected, I had Tylenol and was able to sleep ok since it just started hurting.
The next nite in my cabin I wanted to pull the tooth out myself because it hurt so bad. An emergency dentist visit the next day had them splitting my gum open in a couple places and draining the infection. (God that hurt). Pain meds and anti-biotics got it under control

I since had another root canal on that tooth and had it crowned, thank god for my wifes good dental insurance. Total bills were in the $3,500 range, and insurance covered 80% of it.
 
gkimball
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11/24/2017 09:22PM  
Definition of fear from Merriam-Webster:
An unpleasant, often strong, emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger.
Anxious concern.
Reason for alarm.

Based upon this definition I would say I spend almost zero time in a state of fear - either at home or outdoors.

I have always thought it is important and valuable to control one's state of mind. Easier said than done, but with practice it can be done. This doesn't mean living in a state of denial - it means understanding that some things can cause harm, the actual probability of occurrence, how they might happen and how to mitigate or avoid them using my own judgement and skills.

Things like toothaches happen and are bad when they happen, but to allow these type of things to occupy my consciousness would defeat the purpose for going outdoors - to be happy in the moment.
 
andym
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11/25/2017 02:24AM  
There are certainly things that concern me and some that make me scared while they are going on, such as wind and lighting. But I wouldn’t say that I paddle with fear. Rather, my time in the BW is quite peaceful and calm feeling. But I’m not pushing limits the way some folks trips do. Flat water on small lakes with lots of portaging is our speed. So I am confident of our skills and preparation to manage our trips and can be aware but calm. Of course, we could have an injury. But I don’t feel like that makes me fearful.
 
yellowcanoe
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11/25/2017 07:57AM  
There is difference from fear and stuff to pay attention to. The latter you can control :as in don't run that rapid, portage. Rocky and bad footing portage? Lighten the load ; find balance aid like sticks. Take a PLB in case of broken leg. Dont camp at that dirty campsite. The bear will return. Look up,,, Dont camp under a widowmaker.

Fear? Stuff you can't control like being in a tornado on the water. Or having the option of only being in the woods and not in the open when a microburst tops big trees thirty feet up with you underneath,

I think the older you get the less there is to be afraid about. Everyone dies. And when you are old it is bound to be sooner. Better to be outside than in bed.
 
11/25/2017 09:09AM  

Like Cliff Jacobsen, our most often asked question about wilderness backpacking or canoeing is about bears which we quickly dismiss as of little concern. I agree with you that the distance from help in the event of a serious problem is probably what troubles me the most.

That being said, we would not attempt any adventure where we would be in fear 90% of the time. Kind of takes the enjoyment out of the experience.

 
11/25/2017 09:22AM  
Human Beings are the most dangerous and destructive animals on the planet. The amount and types of people who stay in the BW make it one of the safest places on Earth. With that being said I really don't have fear in the BW even when soloing. But I have a great deal of respect for my surroundings.
 
Grandma L
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11/25/2017 10:25AM  
quote yellowcanoe: "There is difference from fear and stuff to pay attention to. The latter you can control :as in don't run that rapid, portage. Rocky and bad footing portage? Lighten the load ; find balance aid like sticks. Take a PLB in case of broken leg. Dont camp at that dirty campsite. The bear will return. Look up,,, Dont camp under a widowmaker.
Fear? Stuff you can't control like being in a tornado on the water. Or having the option of only being in the woods and not in the open when a microburst tops big trees thirty feet up with you underneath,
I think the older you get the less there is to be afraid about. Everyone dies. And when you are old it is bound to be sooner. Better to be outside than in bed."

Well said - thanks!
I think I am at more risk on the freeway going to the grocery store than in the BWCA. I fear what other people might do more than my own actions.
 
11/26/2017 03:39PM  
Tornadoes is a big one, Falling through the ice is another. My biggest fear is if one of my kids gets a croup attack in the middle of the BWCA and we don't have meds. Seeing your kid blue because they can't breath even when you are in the hospital is terrifying. Thankfully steroids fixes them right up.
 
11/26/2017 04:15PM  
Semantics aside, I think we all know what we're talking about here. Personally, in the beginning I was more worried about some things than I needed to be and less worried, even unaware of some, than I should have been.

More worried about bears than I needed to be, maybe not worried enough about rutting bull moose. More worried about getting lost than I should have been, but not worried enough about hypothermia/cold water immersion, fire, lightning, wind, widow makers, injury/illness.

You can take precautions against most, although you can't totally eliminate them. The severity of consequences and difficulty of dealing with them varies.

Fire, injury, hypothermia are my main "fears/worries/concerns", along with complacency and inattention.

 
11/26/2017 10:43PM  
i have never paddled in the barrrens, i have paddled in the arctic, mountainous country, very beautiful. every morning (and night) i would be fearful of the huge rapids that we would be running, portaging wasn't always an option. once on the river the fear would disappear and be replaced by excitement. even when disasters struck it still wasn't fear, it was time to stay alive.
i have lived in alaska, my younger brother and i were back packing in denali, like the BWCA this park books up. we got a permit but the ranger let us know that there had been many bear problems in the area. a bit of fear, we didn't sleep much.
never have had much fear in the BWCA. most fear would have been from the crap way wenonahs handle in windy conditions. however on a solo trip, late october, portaging north of gull lake i was surrounded by a pack of wolves, by surrounded i should say the wolves were in the woods and following me. they were also howling. not fear but i think my arm hairs were standing upright. it was actually spooky.
easily the most fear i have felt on any trip was a recent trip on the south fork flambeau river. we got to the put in and the river was in high flood, way out of the banks. it was also very cold and windy. we should have cancelled but my group, older brother, best friend and son were all very experienced. it should be okay i figured. i have paddled this river probably a dozen times over the years. usually fun class two rapids. with the spring melt and temps in the 30s those class twos were 3+. i get to be the boss, i am very cautious. we portaged rapids that have probably never been portaged before. my son took over lead. he is probably the best whitewater bowman i have ever paddled with, he's been doing it since he was a kid. first thing my son did was split up our teams. my son (finished in the top fifty in the bierkie) paddled with my older brother, one of the worlds most uncoordinated persons, however he has countless subarctic, arctic trips for experience. we came to a rapid, i remember it from other trips, now however it was unrecognizable. when i approach a rapid and cannot see any thing past the lip of the first drop, i stop and look. my brother (stern) just paddled on in. he knows no fear and wasn't happy with portaging. they disappeared and i panicked. that was my son. had they swamped the risks were enormous, a sweeper would be death, the water temps would be hypothermia in minutes. my buddy and i did the worlds quickest portage through the bush. we've been paddling together for 44 years now. i'm sure it took us less than a couple minutes to get past the few large waves. we put in and found my son and brother smiling, they didn't take on a drop of water. the idea of having a son drown was really sobering.


 
missmolly
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11/27/2017 07:29AM  
Mr. 59, that sounds like the most grueling portage a paddler's ever made.
 
QueticoMike
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11/27/2017 10:58AM  
quote BSW: "I fear getting appendicitis. I fear my spouse getting hurt or sick. I fear lightening. I had spinal fusion in 2001 and I fear hurting my back. I fear the wind.
None of this seems to stop me from backpacking, canoeing or hiking..but I think of them every time I go. :-)


~Good thread"


I don't have to worry about that, had mine taken out when I under 4 years old. Then they figured out that that wasn't the problem, I actually had tonsillitis and by the time they figured that out it had cleared up, so I still have my tonsils. I don't know how you mix one of those things up with the other. I would think if something like that happens these days someone is getting sued.
 
Whatsit
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11/27/2017 12:11PM  
I find I have less fear when paddling with another person. But being alone on a solo there’s a lot of fear like even splitting wood. I guess that’s the biggest fear is being stuck in the middle of no where that no one really knows where you are and your hurt and can’t make it back.
The only fear I have when my brother in law and I go together is if he gets hurt I don’t think I could carry him out.
Great thread Miss Molly
 
ozarkpaddler
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11/27/2017 01:37PM  
quote KarlBAndersen1: "I fear the day coming when I can't do it any more."


Yup, me too!

I don't "Fear" them, but I have a healthy respect for wind and cold water. I've had a lot of close calls over the years. I also have a respect for bears. Some folks don't think of them being any more dangerous than they do red squirrels. But, like people, there's that one in a thousand that IS dangerous. E-mail Cliff, he'd say the same. He's had a run in with one of those rare, predatory black bears himself.

But what scares me MOST? Driving to and from the BWCAW. Many people out there drive like an idiot to shave off a couple minutes. Then there are those that drive with a cell phone or DVD player in front of them. If they'd seen what I have seen in ER's and morgues, they would reconsider their driving habits!
 
northallen
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11/27/2017 02:09PM  
I pack enough Immodium AD to take one an hour for 2 days straight. Nothing slows your exit more than have to clench before each paddle stroke.
 
11/27/2017 08:46PM  
quote northallen: "I pack enough Immodium AD to take one an hour for 2 days straight. Nothing slows your exit more than have to clench before each paddle stroke."


I fear being around when you run out and it wears off ;).
 
carmike
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11/27/2017 09:47PM  
Having tipped on a solo trip only a day or two after ice-out, I'm now very, very afraid of cold water and wind.

On my solo trips now, I will paddle well out of my way to stay near shore -- even if it isn't that windy. And I now bring plenty of stuff to do so I don't get bored on shore and push my luck -- that often means looooots of hot chocolate and multiple books.
 
BuckFlicks
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11/28/2017 05:17PM  
I've never experienced fear of the type described in this thread. I have had anxiety over some things, but fear ... the only fear I've had was my first hiking trip in real bear country, in British Columbia. We wound up camping in an area where there were a couple more groups, one of which was a large youth group who made a fair bit of noise so I wasn't as concerned once we made camp. On that trip I learned that fear can ruin your trip.

I have had more anxiety over water availability on three backpacking trips in Arizona more than anything else. Weather, falling trees, wildlife, injuries, illness ... if you let that in your head, it will expand to fill all available space. If I'm that scared of all of that, I'd probably just prefer to stay at home.

I'm not really a risk taker. I try to conceive of and plan for any emergency that has a reasonable chance of happening on a trip. I try to avoid routes and areas that present higher danger. What's my contingency for if this happens? What do I do if that happens? Knowing I am equipped and able to deal with most situations makes trips much more enjoyable for me. The big stuff... I feel that if something like that is going to happen, it's going to happen and there's not much I can do to stop it, so there's not much use in stressing out over it.
 
Wick
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11/28/2017 07:20PM  
I am a novice. I am not scared, but will stay close to shore when me and the wife go to bwca next year. I fell out of my canoe learning to paddle it last summer and could not get back in, so had to swim to shore pulling the canoe. I worry about tipping and loosing all my gear and supplies. We will take 2 solo canoes instead of a tandem so that one of us is still afloat.
 
Grandma L
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11/29/2017 08:57AM  
Sometimes when I watch my family and friends travel on SPOT or Inreach, see the bad weather coming or know it is very late and they are still paddling in the dark, I am fearful for them, yet sit helpless at my computer. Many times I have even gotten up in the night to check their progress.
My son loves night paddling. He knows I am watching so sometimes he pretends to stop for the night, turns off the SPOT and in the morning I find him miles farther on the route. Finally got him to stop doing that. It defeats the SPOT purpose.
 
sunnybear09
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11/29/2017 11:51AM  
If I had chosen a different screen name than the one I have, i would have been "shorehugger". Of all the things we face in the wilderness water is the element we are alien to. Add "big" and "cold" to that and you have the basis for disaster. And I am an excellent swimmer, have no basic fear of water, but realize that dumping a mile from shore in bad conditions leaves you absolutely at the mercy of this alien environment. If you have been following this site for very long you know that most of the stories of fatal mishap come from drowning, with death and injury from tree-falls a second.

You have control over a land environment--watch your step, carry what you can safely, use your tools intelligently, know where you are. These are basic and easy because you can control them. What you can't control is weather and wildlife.

In the last 3 years I have taken two trips to Alaska during which we saw a total of 23 grizzlies, most ran as soon as they saw us (hunting allowed) or were distant and uninterested. But moose--came so very close to being charged by a young bull while close to shore on the Noatak River trip, and once on the South Brule below Horseshoe Lake (not recommended to try that unless you are a bit nuts) I had a bull in rut come out of the brush 20 yards from my boat (solo) and eye me up and down before finally exiting with speed. Once in Labrador we had to drive out a black bear from shore lunch that really was reluctant to leave. On that same Alaska trip we gave shelter to a solo guy from Germany that had to fight a grizzly to get his food pack back. That was a guy who was rattled to the core. He camped with us for two nights till we hit the Eskimo village at Noatak. I took a shotgun on the last AK trip because I fish far from camp, and will have one with me this year, although our bush pilot tells us that in his many years of experience taking hundreds of people into the wilderness none have had a bad bear experience. But then again he always carries a gun.
 
11/29/2017 12:44PM  
I haven't read all of the replies here but I've always thought that most people let the irrational fears consume too much of their time and effort not allowing them to give proper fear and respect to the real dangers.

I've encountered people that were preoccupied with bears and wanted to go to great lengths to protect themselves and yet they thought nothing of canoeing without a life jacket.

I traveled with one guy who was really concerned with water purity and not getting sick and yet he'd paddle to the middle of the lake and reached over the side of the canoe with a hand pump filter nearly capsizing himself all without a life jacket.

Personally I can't say I fear anything but I try to mitigate risk and give proper respect to the things that pose the greatest risk.
 
11/30/2017 08:29AM  
quote missmolly: "
I once interviewed a guy who was crossing the top of North America, from the end of the Aleutians to Greenland, by kayak and skis, and he said that it's hard to stay properly afraid in the barren lands, that the monotony can start you daydreaming and then you die. "

Do you know whatever happened to Yuri? The last I heard was from 2015- bad year for him. Started off with badly frost bit toes and ended with the Beaufort Sea taking his kayak and gear.
 
riverrunner
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11/30/2017 09:49AM  
Having a healthy respect with a little fear mixed in goes a long ways in keeping you safe.

When I did a bit of rock climbing I was always fearful my anchors would fail so I made double sure they didn't. I always check my ropes.

Fear is not bad unless it paralyses you to the point of inaction when action is needed or when it makes you do something that is harmful to yourself or others that isn't required.

Extremes on both ends of the scale can lead to bad things happening.
 
missmolly
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11/30/2017 11:17AM  
quote BeaV: "
quote missmolly: "
I once interviewed a guy who was crossing the top of North America, from the end of the Aleutians to Greenland, by kayak and skis, and he said that it's hard to stay properly afraid in the barren lands, that the monotony can start you daydreaming and then you die. "

Do you know whatever happened to Yuri? The last I heard was from 2015- bad year for him. Started off with badly frost bit toes and ended with the Beaufort Sea taking his kayak and gear. "


I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.

Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales.
 
11/30/2017 12:05PM  
quote missmolly: "I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.

Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales. "

I will try and get a look at that story, thanks.

If you hear from Yuri, could you update me?

Regarding the original post, good thought-provoking one. I have read all replies and pondered more about fear. I've always had a good handle on this but am always trying to improve how I will use it to my advantage. Fear controlled is what I want.

Evident in the replies, the definition of FEAR is variable. Even the definition in the dictionary is that way. Here's how I define it:

"Fear"- an expectation of danger that creates feelings of alarm. This is GOOD

"Afraid" - filled with fear. This is BAD

"Panic" - overwhelmed by fear. This is UGLY
 
11/30/2017 03:28PM  
Fear? Don't leave home without it. After a recent solo, several people in my life commented that I must be "very brave" or "extremely confident."

Actually, neither. I consider myself observant and realistic. I also keep in mind both my strengths and weaknesses - capitalize on strengths, mitigate weakness.

 
11/30/2017 07:01PM  
I'm respectful of most things.
I fear that in which I can't control.
Middle of a large lake and the wind comes up.
Tree falls on you in the night.
Lightning.
Out in the middle of no where and someone gets injured.
Most of these things didn't bother me until it happened to me.

Was crossing Big Sag and the wind came up.
Was on Camper Island and on a calm morning and a huge just falls over about 50 yards from camp.
Been in too many storms to count, but lightning still scares the crap out of me.
In the bdub and my back went completely out and could barely walk. Which is why I will never go solo. That was partly my fault however.
 
missmolly
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11/30/2017 09:14PM  
Beav, I contacted Yuri and will let you know if he replies. He might be paddling yonder, so if he replies, it might not happen right away.

I'm glad folks have enjoyed this topic!
 
bwcasolo
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12/01/2017 05:37AM  
quote dicecupmaker: "Worry is like praying for bad things to happen."

i am cautious, careful. being so fearful would take the fun out of it. i take care of everything in my control, and that usually comes down to making good decisions.
the natural elements are not in my control, as they say "the only thing to fear, is fear itself".
 
12/01/2017 07:54AM  
My first canoe trip was in 1971, and my last canoe trip was in 2013.
On my first trip I think I was too clueless to be afraid, I just trusted Spartan1 to handle everything, and he told me it was all OK. I remember some scary moments, but he reassured me that it was perfectly normal, and that he would handle whatever I wasn't ready for. . .and it all worked out just fine. So I gained confidence. We were young and healthy, and he had experience.

He talked me into running Lady Rapids on the Namakan River (without our gear in the canoe, just for the fun of it) and I remember thinking when the canoe hit bottom on a rock in the depths of a trough. . ."Wow, that could be a problem!", that maybe I should have been more fearful than I actually was. And I WAS fearful! But it all turned out just fine, and running Lady Rapids is a fond memory. One of my favorites, actually. :-)

As the years, and then the decades went on, my fears became very different. Spartan1 developed Type1 diabetes and we were dealing with insulin reactions in the middle of the night, or at the end of a long portage, and I sometimes had to make a split-second medical decision (even against the will of a belligerent or goofy partner.) That is easier now than it was in the 80's and 90's, and there were scary times. So my fears were more about health on our trips than about dealing with the wilderness. But we kept going. Including a couple of Quetico trips and even a 22-day trip in the BWCA, just before he developed the kidney disease. And more health issues with which to deal. A wilderness trip on the kidney diet is another challenge, but fear doesn't enter in--just frustration.

I am afraid of heavy wind and high rollers on a lake. We do not travel light, we are not thin people, and our canoe is loaded. There was one time on Brule Lake when we started off across Jock Mock Bay in a storm (a Nor-easter was blowing up the lake to a fury) and I called back to Spartan1, "We are GOING to get off this lake NOW!! I am NOT going to die out here!!" And he turned back on the shore and found us a campsite. It was a good decision. He agreed later, but I knew immediately. (That was on the 22-day trip in 1992).

As we aged, my fears became more and more health-related. We are both at higher risk for heart issues, stroke issues, and other health emergencies. I became, because of severe arthritis, a mobility risk. We dialed back the length of our trips, and the challenge factor of our portages. In 2012 we traveled with another couple to help with our packs.

But I always told those we left behind that we took more risk making the drive to the north country than we did on a canoe trip. I believed that. People would say, "But you cannot call 911 if you have a health emergency. What would you do?" And I struggled with that fact. We would cope, we would do what we could, and one of us might die. We had to accept that. And we did. I feared that, but it didn't keep me home until finally, it did. My lack of mobility, combined with some other factors beyond our control, pulled the plug.

But it wasn't fear. Not fear of anything in the wilderness. We handled the wind and the waves by having a healthy respect and not tackling conditions beyond our skill level. Waited it out. We handled wildlife by keeping a clean camp and probably by being lucky. We endured weather the best we could, and probably were lucky in that regard as well. And we never met up with any scary people.

It was all good. I remember it all through rose-colored glasses now. :-)

 
Grandma L
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12/01/2017 08:53AM  
quote bwcasolo: "
quote dicecupmaker: "Worry is like praying for bad things to happen."

i am cautious, careful. being so fearful would take the fun out of it. i take care of everything in my control, and that usually comes down to making good decisions.
the natural elements are not in my control, as they say "the only thing to fear, is fear itself".
"

I might call it "Worrying" but it is really problem solving, thoughtful planning and evaluating so I can take the appropriate action when the time comes. When a "fear factor" is involved, I just have to do the planning and evaluating faster and be prepared more quickly! Hopefully that is when seasoned - practiced behaviors and instincts will kick in!
 
Pirate
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12/01/2017 09:45AM  
Fear nothing. Every trip, an adventure!
 
missmolly
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12/01/2017 11:41AM  
quote bwcasolo: "
quote dicecupmaker: "Worry is like praying for bad things to happen."

i am cautious, careful. being so fearful would take the fun out of it. i take care of everything in my control, and that usually comes down to making good decisions.
the natural elements are not in my control, as they say "the only thing to fear, is fear itself".
"


FDR had a point, but my uncle on Iwo Jima feared Japanese bullets and he also had a point, as did my sailor father who feared Japanese torpedoes.
 
Grandma L
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12/01/2017 11:44AM  
"If you fear nothing, then you are not brave, you are merely too foolish to be afraid." by Laurell Hamilton
 
12/01/2017 12:48PM  
quote BeaV: "
quote missmolly: "I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.

Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales. "



Evident in the replies, the definition of FEAR is variable. Even the definition in the dictionary is that way. Here's how I define it:


"Fear"- an expectation of danger that creates feelings of alarm. This is GOOD


"Afraid" - filled with fear. This is BAD


"Panic" - overwhelmed by fear. This is UGLY"


Agree. "Fear" is something that can be prepared for. This is good if you prepare and train. Easily overtaken with the mind.

Afraid. The first feelings you get that you might not have prepared enough. Hopefully training takes over. Mildly overtaken with the mind.

Panic. Experience in these situations is a must. No one likes this. That is why training is a must in situations that are not favorable. Difficult to do- training for these deals is crucial but not always applicable--- as this is what makes your heart race. Mind must be trained to overtake. The mind can get a person through most until the panic leads to poor choices on top of poor choices which leads to not good things. Then it comes down to how strong your mind is when nothing is with you. When you lose your mind and control- that is what I fear the most.

 
12/01/2017 02:49PM  
quote WhiteWolf: "
quote BeaV: "
quote missmolly: "I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.


Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales. "




Evident in the replies, the definition of FEAR is variable. Even the definition in the dictionary is that way. Here's how I define it:



"Fear"- an expectation of danger that creates feelings of alarm. This is GOOD



"Afraid" - filled with fear. This is BAD



"Panic" - overwhelmed by fear. This is UGLY"



Agree. "Fear" is something that can be prepared for. This is good if you prepare and train. Easily overtaken with the mind.


Afraid. The first feelings you get that you might not have prepared enough. Hopefully training takes over. Mildly overtaken with the mind.


Panic. Experience in these situations is a must. No one likes this. That is why training is a must in situations that are not favorable. Difficult to do- training for these deals is crucial but not always applicable--- as this is what makes your heart race. Mind must be trained to overtake. The mind can get a person through most until the panic leads to poor choices on top of poor choices which leads to not good things. Then it comes down to how strong your mind is when nothing is with you. When you lose your mind and control- that is what I fear the most."

Good additional detail that I agree with.

Based on my definition, I have feared many things lots of times.
 
Basspro69
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12/01/2017 10:35PM  
I'm really only afraid of 3 things. Bull moose in the rut, and grizzly bears . The thing I'm most afraid of is the Packers winning a Superbowl in the Vikings stadium, that fear is getting less each week.
 
mjmkjun
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12/02/2017 04:56AM  
quote LindenTree3: "
quote jcavenagh: "Going solo and being on big water put the twist of fear in my belly.
"



This is also my biggest fear,
I recently bagged my dream solo in Alaska (Wood-Tikchik State Park). It would have required a float plane ride into the sticks north of Dillingham, and put me on a 5 lakes chain alone. All the lakes were big water of 2-5 miles across and 20 - 40 miles long. If I could have found a partner I would have done this trip.


Wood- Tikchik State Park "


you listened to your gut and sensibilities. wisdom prevailed.
 
missmolly
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12/02/2017 02:55PM  
quote Basspro69: "I'm really only afraid of 3 things. Bull moose in the rut, and grizzly bears . The thing I'm most afraid of is the Packers winning a Superbowl in the Vikings stadium, that fear is getting less each week."


Last early October, I was in Quetico when I heard a mighty rumbling. Naturally, being Quetico savvy, I assumed it was a runaway herd of longhorn cattle, but I was wrong. It was Basspro69 running from a bull moose being ridden by a grizzly bear that was clutching a pair of Packers' Lombardi trophies. I have never seen such fear on a man's face.
 
12/03/2017 12:52AM  
I have never been afraid of anything in BWCAW. Totally at peace. For some reason I don't think getting eaten by a bear or a pack of wolves is going to be the reason for my demise. If it comes to that I will go down fighting and that is fine. I like being in a tent during storms, it's just fun. I'm pretty convinced in not going to get killed by a falling tree. Not gonna happen. It is more dangerous driving your car to the Chicago loop and back than a week in the BW woods. But that isn't really hardcore. I get that. When the girls where I get coffee say be safe, I say, I don't have to be safe, I beat cancer, nothing can kill me now. Cheers.
 
12/03/2017 04:13PM  
quote missmolly: "
quote Basspro69: "I'm really only afraid of 3 things. Bull moose in the rut, and grizzly bears . The thing I'm most afraid of is the Packers winning a Superbowl in the Vikings stadium, that fear is getting less each week."



Last early October, I was in Quetico when I heard a mighty rumbling. Naturally, being Quetico savvy, I assumed it was a runaway herd of longhorn cattle, but I was wrong. It was Basspro69 running from a bull moose being ridden by a grizzly bear that was clutching a pair of Packers' Lombardi trophies. I have never seen such fear on a man's face. "


I can just imagine that!
 
12/03/2017 04:13PM  
Some moments of fear stick with you... I can quickly inhale or get goosebumps at the memories:

- hiking solo in winter on a great lakes beach in Ontario, trying to get to the top of the last snow-covered sand dune, then realizing you are ON Lake Huron and there are floating icebergs at the base of that last 20 foot high "sand dune"... and you have to walk back across the ice/lake knowing it is dark cold water underneath you somewhere

- sleeping solo under the stars when a bear decides to explore your lump of a sleeping bag and steps on your midsection with his nose in your belly

Those were times when abrupt waves of fear washed over me, and yet forced me to remain calm and logically think my way out of the situation safely.

Other times, I remember fear as a more sustained feeling of intense concentration - as in "you better focus on survival right now or it will be messy". When every paddle stroke mattered, when three small children depended on you, when a wrong decision had strong enough consequences to really make you think. These are less sharp in my mind.

OK, being honest there are also memories of "fear" that are laughable... Like practicing piano in the basement longer than necessary, because turning around and facing the dark empty basement to get to the stairs was too scary. Like staying in one position long after completing a murder mystery, because surely some of the characters were still lurking nearby. Like staring at dark cool water I wanted to dive into, but couldn't bring myself to take the plunge. These kinds of memories of fear are funny today, but strangely enough, these are times of INACTION that actually caused me to miss out on things - for no real reason. The other kinds of fear occurred while I was LIVING.

There's some kind of metaphor there, that will probably come to me as I try to sleep tonight.
 
missmolly
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12/03/2017 08:58PM  
Great post, BWPaddler.
 
mjmkjun
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12/04/2017 05:32AM  
quote missmolly: "Great post, BWPaddler. "

I second that comment. Kind of post many can relate to.
 
12/05/2017 03:54PM  
quote BeaV: "
quote missmolly: "I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.

Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales. "

I will try and get a look at that story, thanks."

Just got back from a public library where I read the story in the December issue. Hard to read for me, guess I don't like reading those kind of pain-filled suffer til near death expeditions anymore.

The leader of the three men, Wilson, was quoted as saying "They (referring to the other 2 men) must have been frightened but they were never disturbed. As for me, I had no hope at all..."

This at a time where death was a sure thing. The condition of hopelessness is something to avoid(fear)!!
 
missmolly
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12/05/2017 05:27PM  
quote BeaV: "
quote BeaV: "
quote missmolly: "I should write him and see. Things he told me and things you told me really stick with me. Do you remember when you said you still felt tenderized from your trials? And Yuri told me that the Arctic can lull you with monotony and then kill you suddenly because you're sleepwalking.


Say, Beav, you should read the story about the Antarctic in this month's Smithsonian. It astonishes me how much pain some men can endure. The three men in the story all survived, but months later, two died a mere eleven miles from the base camp with Scott. Seeing what they had already endured, I can't fathom what could have killed them. They struck me as able to bear anything, but then they met the unbearable and we won't know what that was because none in their crew survived: Frozen men tell no tales. "

I will try and get a look at that story, thanks."

Just got back from a public library where I read the story in the December issue. Hard to read for me, guess I don't like reading those kind of pain-filled suffer til near death expeditions anymore.


The leader of the three men, Wilson, was quoted as saying "They (referring to the other 2 men) must have been frightened but they were never disturbed. As for me, I had no hope at all..."


This at a time where death was a sure thing. The condition of hopelessness is something to avoid(fear)!!"


Yeah, it's a bleak read. As I read it, I thought again and again, "I would be dead here."
 
Atb
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12/06/2017 12:54PM  
Great thread, a lot of your responses really resonate with my experience.

Since beginning to trip with my 10 y.o, I have transferred many of my personal fears into the fear of failure in my responsibility to teach, prepare and guide her to be safe. Every decision is not only mine now but hers too; where to camp, which water is safe, what to carry, handling fire and tools. It's a great evolution for me as an outdoorsman, leader, and parent.
 
JimmyJustice
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12/06/2017 03:30PM  
Interesting points BeaV and WW. I have been lurking on this post from time to time. Learned comments from all for sure. My initial take on the subject has not changed, although, as others have said, and to which I wholeheartedly agree; how you define FEAR matters. Well for this thread it does, elsewhere, not so much.

If as BeaV and WW define, I too have feared many of things lots of times. A regular occurrence for sure. My first kiss, my first canoe swamping, all of my trials and appellate arguments. However, for me, Fear = Panic, a state of being that in near impossible to control. So with that as my universe, nope, I do not recall having been in fear. True, I have spent many an hour pondering the what-if's but in so doing, I thought through options and "game plans" which is the mental way I prepare for the what-if's that plague me. Will I be able to implement a particular game plan when the time comes and not be in "fear"? So far, when the what-if's have come up, yes. Manageable. :)

Oddly, I would like that to change. I would like to be in fear of more than just the one thing. To be in a spot where your mental strength and preparedness pulls you instantly from a state of panic to "just" being afraid to being able to successfully implement a course of action to conclusion. Such a state of affairs would properly make me a more rounded person. In order for that to happen, I surmise that I will need explore strange, new lands, seek out new waters and new portages, to boldly go where I have not gone before.

Do I want to discuss hygiene with a bear like BWP did...hell no! Not interested in that experience at all, but am I fearful of that situation (panic by my definition)? No clue. And if I was, could I control that fear to manageable success like BWP did? Don't know.

So, for 2018, bring on the bear, lets find out.

 
shoreviewswede
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12/07/2017 08:32AM  
Wind while paddling.
 
Arkansas Man
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12/07/2017 01:38PM  
While there is not much that I say I am afraid of... I do have a healthy respect for situations that could lead to harm to my self, or others with me. As I have gotten older that respect makes me more aware of things around me possible dangers. But that does not keep me from doing things... I just use more "smarts" now.
I am currently 61 years of age, I have had both knees replaced, I have also had cardiac ablation done for Atrial Fibrillation. I take medication for High Blood pressure, and a baby aspirin. I hunt in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas, alone! I have seen a mountain lion, feral hogs, and bears where I hunt. Nothing like walking over the edge of a bench and finding yourself in the middle of 18 feral hogs! The landscape is not flat and it is difficult to get game out once I kill it, but I do... slowly!

In paddling situations such as the BWCA, wind is the biggest threat I look for. The majority of the time, my tripping partner is my wife who now is not a strong paddler due to a shoulder injury from biking. So wind concerns us! We do not run rapids above class one unless we are just joy paddling in our solos.

I've had the incident where going in on a solo, stepping out of the canoe at a crowded portage (3 canoes stopped having lunch had everything blocked) and turning my ankle slipping on a rock. Turned out it was not a ankle turn, but a stress fracture which made leaving 5 days later and moving during that time interesting.

So the main thing I've learned from it all is go slow, be aware of what is around you no matter where you are!! And know what to do in those situations!

Bruce
 
JoshP
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12/08/2017 04:44PM  
I fear that I may die in the wilderness alone (I solo winter and summer) and my dog will be left alone to survive for her self.
 
12/09/2017 10:02AM  
quote JimmyJustice: "... for me, Fear = Panic, a state of being that in near impossible to control. So with that as my universe, nope, I do not recall having been in fear.
...
I have spent many an hour pondering the what-if's but in so doing, I thought through options and "game plans" which is the mental way I prepare for the what-if's that plague me.
...
Do I want to discuss hygiene with a bear like BWP did...hell no! Not interested in that experience at all, but am I fearful of that situation (panic by my definition)? No clue. And if I was, could I control that fear to manageable success like BWP did? Don't know.

So, for 2018, bring on the bear, lets find out.

"


With situations like the bear (your words - near impossible to control), your many-an-hour-ponderings just become time-constrained. You still go through options, unless you maybe act by instinct. Just in a fraction of the time. I would think all your other slower logical thinking about what-ifs would prepare you well for that. I still feel if I acted on instinct (to hop up and flee), the bear would have had a drumstick dinner or at least a snack.

But my mind raced through what-if type options - how to let bear know the puddle of sleeping bag contained a human, without scaring it into self-defense mode? Bear education would say I needed to be loud and large... but I was prone on the ground and bear was literally above/on me. Can't apply that education from that position I didn't think. I guess education also said that bear wouldn't attack unless afraid, so that was what kept me still and slow despite crazy pounding heart, so as not to surprise him/her. In the end, a simple whisper "shoo!" was enough to convince bear to turn and head in another direction. There's no real preparing for that, lol.
 
12/09/2017 10:22AM  
quote Atb: "...

Since beginning to trip with my 10 y.o, I have transferred many of my personal fears into the fear of failure in my responsibility to teach, prepare and guide her to be safe. Every decision is not only mine now but hers too; where to camp, which water is safe, what to carry, handling fire and tools. It's a great evolution for me as an outdoorsman, leader, and parent."


Yeah, fear changes when there are others you are responsible for - not just yourself. In some ways it's worse.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
12/09/2017 10:29AM  
MissMolly, have you read "Going Inside-A couples Journey of Renewal into the North" by Alan S. Kesselheim? Awesome adventurous read. Hits nail on the head regarding the subject matter of this thread. In an eye-opening way. If you haven't read it, I'll send it to you, if you wish. I'm done with it and it's just sitting around the house till I make my next carload visit to Goodwill. Pass it on to someone after reading.
Send me an address (business address?) via my email and I'll send it USPS. Makes good reading on a gloomy winter's day.
 
12/09/2017 11:08AM  
quote BWPaddler: "
quote JimmyJustice: "... for me, Fear = Panic, a state of being that in near impossible to control. So with that as my universe, nope, I do not recall having been in fear.
...
I have spent many an hour pondering the what-if's but in so doing, I thought through options and "game plans" which is the mental way I prepare for the what-if's that plague me.
...
Do I want to discuss hygiene with a bear like BWP did...hell no! Not interested in that experience at all, but am I fearful of that situation (panic by my definition)? No clue. And if I was, could I control that fear to manageable success like BWP did? Don't know.


So, for 2018, bring on the bear, lets find out.


"



With situations like the bear (your words - near impossible to control), your many-an-hour-ponderings just become time-constrained. You still go through options, unless you maybe act by instinct. Just in a fraction of the time. I would think all your other slower logical thinking about what-ifs would prepare you well for that. I still feel if I acted on instinct (to hop up and flee), the bear would have had a drumstick dinner or at least a snack.


But my mind raced through what-if type options - how to let bear know the puddle of sleeping bag contained a human, without scaring it into self-defense mode? Bear education would say I needed to be loud and large... but I was prone on the ground and bear was literally above/on me. Can't apply that education from that position I didn't think. I guess education also said that bear wouldn't attack unless afraid, so that was what kept me still and slow despite crazy pounding heart, so as not to surprise him/her. In the end, a simple whisper "shoo!" was enough to convince bear to turn and head in another direction. There's no real preparing for that, lol."


I would think from all I read about how great a bear's sense of smell is that the bear would know there was a human there, or maybe bear just thought it was a human-scented sleeping bag . . . ?
 
12/09/2017 11:10AM  
quote mjmkjun: "MissMolly, have you read "Going Inside-A couples Journey of Renewal into the North" by Alan S. Kesselheim? Awesome adventurous read. Hits nail on the head regarding the subject matter of this thread. In an eye-opening way. If you haven't read it, I'll send it to you, if you wish. I'm done with it and it's just sitting around the house till I make my next carload visit to Goodwill. Pass it on to someone after reading.
Send me an address (business address?) via my email and I'll send it USPS. Makes good reading on a gloomy winter's day. "


If missmolly has read it (or isn't interested), I think I'd enjoy reading it as I enjoyed his "Water and Sky".
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
12/09/2017 12:26PM  
quote mjmkjun: "MissMolly, have you read "Going Inside-A couples Journey of Renewal into the North" by Alan S. Kesselheim? Awesome adventurous read. Hits nail on the head regarding the subject matter of this thread. In an eye-opening way. If you haven't read it, I'll send it to you, if you wish. I'm done with it and it's just sitting around the house till I make my next carload visit to Goodwill. Pass it on to someone after reading.
Send me an address (business address?) via my email and I'll send it USPS. Makes good reading on a gloomy winter's day. "


I'd love to read it! Boonie, I'll send it to you when I'm done.
 
12/09/2017 01:05PM  
quote missmolly: "
quote mjmkjun: "MissMolly, have you read "Going Inside-A couples Journey of Renewal into the North" by Alan S. Kesselheim? Awesome adventurous read. Hits nail on the head regarding the subject matter of this thread. In an eye-opening way. If you haven't read it, I'll send it to you, if you wish. I'm done with it and it's just sitting around the house till I make my next carload visit to Goodwill. Pass it on to someone after reading.
Send me an address (business address?) via my email and I'll send it USPS. Makes good reading on a gloomy winter's day. "



I'd love to read it! Boonie, I'll send it to you when I'm done. "


Missmolly,
You've just met a super nice guy in mjmjkun, he visited me in Alaska last summer and I was humbled by his kindness and genuine soul.
 
12/09/2017 01:15PM  
quote boonie: "
quote BWPaddler: "
quote JimmyJustice: "... for me, Fear = Panic, a state of being that in near impossible to control. So with that as my universe, nope, I do not recall having been in fear.
...
I have spent many an hour pondering the what-if's but in so doing, I thought through options and "game plans" which is the mental way I prepare for the what-if's that plague me.
...
Do I want to discuss hygiene with a bear like BWP did...hell no! Not interested in that experience at all, but am I fearful of that situation (panic by my definition)? No clue. And if I was, could I control that fear to manageable success like BWP did? Don't know.



So, for 2018, bring on the bear, lets find out.



"




With situations like the bear (your words - near impossible to control), your many-an-hour-ponderings just become time-constrained. You still go through options, unless you maybe act by instinct. Just in a fraction of the time. I would think all your other slower logical thinking about what-ifs would prepare you well for that. I still feel if I acted on instinct (to hop up and flee), the bear would have had a drumstick dinner or at least a snack.



But my mind raced through what-if type options - how to let bear know the puddle of sleeping bag contained a human, without scaring it into self-defense mode? Bear education would say I needed to be loud and large... but I was prone on the ground and bear was literally above/on me. Can't apply that education from that position I didn't think. I guess education also said that bear wouldn't attack unless afraid, so that was what kept me still and slow despite crazy pounding heart, so as not to surprise him/her. In the end, a simple whisper "shoo!" was enough to convince bear to turn and head in another direction. There's no real preparing for that, lol."



I would think from all I read about how great a bear's sense of smell is that the bear would know there was a human there, or maybe bear just thought it was a human-scented sleeping bag . . . ? "




Just like a dog a bears nose can get them in trouble. Haha. I think about the night on Iron Lake, Bernie woke me up with a low growl. We both went back to sleep and woke up to a big old bear turd a few feet away.
 
12/09/2017 02:58PM  






I fear Wildfires.
That white stuff on my lips is not from a powdered sugar donut. It's dried saliva from fear induce dry mouth. I had to paddle towards the fire to get away from it.
I can't imagine the fear firefighters routinely encounter on the job.
 
12/09/2017 05:31PM  
Thanks, missmolly - just email me whenever you're done and I'll give you my address. When I'm done, I'll send it on to someone else who wants it.
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
12/10/2017 07:28AM  
quote LindenTree3: "
quote DrBobDerrig: "
Oh a toothache can get your undivided attention as well..... Amoxicillin and Tylenol(etc) usually come along just in case....
dr bob"



Yes, the toothache hit me on a Alaska Solo paddle last June, luckily it was only a 2 nighter.
On the second nite my problem child tooth, with a root canal became infected, I had Tylenol and was able to sleep ok since it just started hurting.
The next nite in my cabin I wanted to pull the tooth out myself because it hurt so bad. An emergency dentist visit the next day had them splitting my gum open in a couple places and draining the infection. (God that hurt). Pain meds and anti-biotics got it under control


I since had another root canal on that tooth and had it crowned, thank god for my wifes good dental insurance. Total bills were in the $3,500 range, and insurance covered 80% of it."

Linden, I just had a root canal on a molar and didn't feel a bit of discomfort. Not once. What a lame emergency dentist/dental surgeon. Sheesh!....No reason to be holding back with the pre-op nerve numbing meds.
 
Basspro69
distinguished member(14142)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
  
12/11/2017 08:22PM  
missmolly: "
quote Basspro69: "I'm really only afraid of 3 things. Bull moose in the rut, and grizzly bears . The thing I'm most afraid of is the Packers winning a Superbowl in the Vikings stadium, that fear is getting less each week."



Last early October, I was in Quetico when I heard a mighty rumbling. Naturally, being Quetico savvy, I assumed it was a runaway herd of longhorn cattle, but I was wrong. It was Basspro69 running from a bull moose being ridden by a grizzly bear that was clutching a pair of Packers' Lombardi trophies. I have never seen such fear on a man's face. "
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
 
missmolly
distinguished member(7681)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
12/12/2017 07:50AM  
Glad I made you laugh, BP!
 
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