I got great help on map buying in another thread. I like gps in my truck. Which ones work well for the BWCA?

Do you not use maps, or use both gps and maps? I will use both if i find a gps i like for offroad/paddling.

Be warned! I have many more questions to ask,,,

I have an older model Garmin Oregon, which works well for my kayaking needs. I took it to the bwca, but more for a case of emergency as it is small and light enough. I feel that maps work well and are more comprehensive plus you would be burning through a bunch of batteries if you'd run it all day long for several days (not sure how much more efficient newer models are). It would be good to track your mileage, speed, etc. if you are into that stuff.

I love GPS, but I never use one in the boundary waters. I don't want to bother with the weight and batteries. If I did use GPS, I would always have a paper map backup. I like having two paper maps; the backup map weighs essentially nothing and takes no space, but easily pays for itself if you lose the main one several days in.

I use maps and GPS. The unit I own is an older Garmin GPSMap 76Cx. It is waterproof and it floats. It lasts for about 18 hours on 2 AA batteries. I don't have it turned on all the time.

There is a discussion group on this site that is dedicated to GPS.

I've carried a GPS on all my trips. Its neat to look back on previous trips to see the places we were and to get travel distances & time. Last trip I primarily navigated by GPS and used the map to demonstrate the general planned route.

I'd never travel with only a GPS, although I have yet to have a problem with mine it would become a difficult situation to suffer a physical or electrical malfunction. Maps you can at least navigate by without a compass if you're certain of your location.

Don't take the GPS from your vehicle. The battery won't last and it won't have the right maps.

Check out the GPS subforum here for more info. If you don't see it, go to the message board home page then click the link to see what other forums are available for you to "subscribe."

I track my trips on my Garmin running GPS, but only use it for tracking (same as runners use it for while running). In a real emergency I could use its "return to start" feature to get myself back out, I suppose. I'm contemplating a GPSmap64 or an Inreach Explorer+, but would only use it for additional / backup information, not to replace the paper maps. And I carry a set of maps for each person, plus a set tucked inside the foam sleeve on my CCS Guide (as suggested to me by Dan Cooke himself), because I'm paranoid.

Questions are good, gotta start somewhere!

I use a GPS a lot, for many thing driving and field use. I will never do a remote trip without a map and compass and the ability to use them. I track trips on my GPS for home use and memories, they are handy for navigation but I will never rely solely on them. Have owned/used GPS's since the 1990's and currently use a Garmin 62st with custom maps on it.
If you want to get into more detailed GPS discussions check out,
GPS forum

butthead

I appreciate some of the features that a GPS brings, but in the wilderness, one can't be caught without proper maps and the ability to read them. What happens if you accidentally drop your GPS in the lake? The batteries run out? The unit gets damaged?

It's hard to beat a map for detail, as well as overall perspective, on a canoe trip.

You should always have a waterproof map as stated above.

I use my cellphone for a GPS when needed. It works great. Most people think you have to have cell service for that to work. There is a GPS chip in most smartphones, just preload your map and it works fine. I don't keep the phone on all the time to conserve the battery, plus I bring in a battery pack which charges my phone several times during the week.

We primarily use a GPS but bring Maps as a back up just in case. Also, we look at maps to pick out random day trips.

You guys/gals are great! Lots of reading on the gps forum to do. It will take me all year to read all the forums i need to read!

We have one of the smaller Garmin units that takes a microSD card. We have a card from Red Pine Mapping that is BWCA specific and has all the campsites and portages on it with about the same accuracy as the print maps. We do track our trip on it and my wife will use it for navigation (she's done navigation at sea and on the seafloor professionally and so likes techie nav toys). And, of course, we always have maps. Lots of maps. As I said in the other thread, we like maps. Also, they don't die if dropped or don't sink out of sight if accidentally dropped in the water. The latter did happen to us once. Yes, our GPS now has a little float attached to it. We just never trust one thing for our navigation and maps and compass are the most reliable.

I just use maps and compass; actually rarely even use the compass. It's simple enough if you just stay found.

I've gone on a trip with my kayak to Lac La Croix, my fish finder on it has gps and maintained our location 100% off the trip. Therefore I didn't look at my map AT ALL. it was awesome, but mostly because the GPS overlayed with navionics maps, a luxury I've never had inn the BWCA. If you were planning on using gps vs maps, you might get hung up on the portages if you weren't familiar wth the route. Might as well use the maps and not bother with the weight. If you pair the GPS with something else tho...... very very very worth it.

I take the area maps I think I will need and a compass, but they stay mostly in my pack. I also have a Garmin Montana 650T that has a Topo chip for USGS 7 1/2 min maps. I have it out in front of me when traveling, it has a moving map. It also has the portage and campsite information. 18 hour battety life and semi waterproof. One thing I do know is I will never buy another map. Too many other options out there for navigation. I also have a chip in my fish finder that has all the Lakes on it. This is also a moving map that shows the depths.

I have a Garmin e- trex. I only use it occasionally to confirm where I think I'm at. In the BW a map and compass is best

I would never go into the backcountry without a set of maps, electronic tools can fail. When I took my 21 day solo last fall into the Kashishibog lake area I took my GPS along to mark portages, campsites ect. About 15 days in the screen went the most pretty dark blue you have ever seen, couldn't read it even with my headlamp on, it wasn't dropped or banged around but it did rain for 19 of the 21 days I was there so I figured it got wet. When I got home I stuck it in a box of rice and left it for 2 months, pulled it out blew out the rice and put new batterys in it and surprise it still won't work. Without my maps it might have been a tough time getting out. FRED

I think much has to do with the complexity of where your at. I never use GPS in Boundary Waters or Quetico and find looking at a map a way to keep engaged. Same with WCPP.

On the other hand it might be nice to just paddle and not constantly keep track of where your at inch by inch on a map. My maps are always easy to read while on the move, never laying at my feet where I have to move my head to view where I am at.

In the Ten Thousand islands of Everglades National Park few would venture into that labyrinth without GPS and use it as the primary navigational tool. I picked up a Garmin Montana because the screen is nice and large for anticipated ventures. Alas, that was 4 years ago and I still haven't had time to go!! Maybe this year!

IMO for something as critical as navigation you need 2 sources that you can absolutely rely on. Some like 2 sets of paper maps/compass, Some like 1 set of maps/compass + GPS (I am in this camp).

My argument for paper maps is that it makes it much easier for long range planning (entire day, next few days, rest of trip) as it gives me the ability to see 'big picture' (pun intended). Trying to decide what your going to do over the next few days on a gps screen can get very confusing and frustrating IMO. We often plan on a particular route, and make many adjustments over the course of a 10 day trip - usually by reviewing maps at nite in the tent. 2 people peering at a tiny gps screen gets old quick.

We like to move a lot, and do big loops, which informs our decisions as to which tools to bring, and how best to use them. If your style is basecamp/fish, or out/back, then relying on a GPS may be a more attractive option for you.

I'm confident that we could extricate ourselves from a situation with either tool...although having 2 makes it heck of a lot easier and more comforting.

I've never heard of anyone bringing 2 GPSs, but there are probably some who do.

Maps only half the fun is finding the portage, to old school for anything else, rarely take a compass unless heading into a pma.

I bring both a map/compass and a GPS. GPS sure makes it easy finding portages and campsites especially when it's raining or windy and you really want to get off the water as quickly as you can.

quote boonie: "I just use maps and compass; actually rarely even use the compass. It's simple enough if you just stay found. "

Same here.

Wick-

I personally would not go without a map. A map gives a bigger picture, which besides just being generally useful, could be essential in the event of a wildfire like the Pagami fire and altered travel plans.

While a GPS would be useful to quickly pinpoint your location if you're lost and for other information it provides, it's hard to get really lost there if you just stay found. I'm not sure of your map/compass navigational skills and experience, but the general idea is just to orient the map to the landscape and keep track of features like points, bays, campsites, portages, islands, etc. It will be a little more complex on really large lakes, but pretty simple on most others.

BTW, where are you located in OH? I grew up in the Ohio River Valley (in WV).

quote housty9: "Maps only half the fun is finding the portage, to old school for anything else, rarely take a compass unless heading into a pma."

Boy Mark, I'd take a compass. You never know when you might get turned around going to the Biffy in the night. Someone had that happen here once and spent the night in the woods until light and a sun helped him get found again. Lol.

quote boonie: "Wick-

BTW, where are you located in OH? I grew up in the Ohio River Valley (in WV). "

I grew up at Indian Lake. I now live just south of there about 1 hour north of Dayton.

I am thinking i will see how much my new pack will weigh loaded,,then if there is room, i will add a gps to the pile. I bought a thwart bag from ccs to put a map in. Waiting for it to arrive.

I've used maps, GPS, and some combo of map and GPS. After my last trip, I decided to sell the GPS. I learned map and compass in the Boy Scouts and it still works for me. We were fortunate enough to have access to 800+ acres of private property and a scoutmaster who loved to set up orienteering courses. It is still second nature to me, whereas I have to stop and think to use the GPS.

I guess I should get around to putting my etrex 20 in the for sale section...

We take a GPS and two sets of maps with us. For maps we take Fischer and McKenzie maps for the lakes we are going to in Quetico. The GPS is mostly used to track our route and mileage and to see exactly where we are at. I did get the Red Pine card to use in the GPS for portages and other info. We have found several errors on the maps for portages and campsites.

quote Wick: "

quote boonie: "Wick-


BTW, where are you located in OH? I grew up in the Ohio River Valley (in WV). "

I grew up at Indian Lake. I now live just south of there about 1 hour north of Dayton.


I am thinking i will see how much my new pack will weigh loaded,,then if there is room, i will add a gps to the pile. I bought a thwart bag from ccs to put a map in. Waiting for it to arrive. "

Sounds like a plan.

I thought maybe you'd be closer to WV (I live in Morgantown, but am sometimes visiting the ORV). If you ever get over this way, let me know.

@ Boonie - I went to OU in Athens, Ohio......fairly close to WV

quote Wick: "

quote boonie: "Wick-


BTW, where are you located in OH? I grew up in the Ohio River Valley (in WV). "

I grew up at Indian Lake. I now live just south of there about 1 hour north of Dayton.


I am thinking i will see how much my new pack will weigh loaded,,then if there is room, i will add a gps to the pile. I bought a thwart bag from ccs to put a map in. Waiting for it to arrive. "

Do you live by Bellefontaine?

Do you live by Bellefontaine?
"

Close to saint paris and west liberty,,
20 min south of bellefontaine

quote nctry: "

quote housty9: "Maps only half the fun is finding the portage, to old school for anything else, rarely take a compass unless heading into a pma."

Boy Mark, I'd take a compass. You never know when you might get turned around going to the Biffy in the night. Someone had that happen here once and spent the night in the woods until light and a sun helped him get found again. Lol."

Hahahaha.

Every canoe in our group has a map. I carry a compass but I'm not sure if any of the others in the group do. I bring a gps along and have it running whenever we are traveling. It's a pretty useful tool for recording an accurate diary of our travels and I'll often look back on those tracks and waypoints during the long winter days between paddling seasons.

gps forum is pretty helpful on the topic.

quote QueticoMike: "@ Boonie - I went to OU in Athens, Ohio......fairly close to WV"

Yes, you did - a little west of Parkersburg/Marietta area. I grew up about an hour north of there and still have family and friends there.

quote Blatz: "I have a Garmin e- trex. I only use it occasionally to confirm where I think I'm at. In the BW a map and compass is best"

I was going to say this very thing, even the same model GPS.

Waterproof paper maps and compass for navigation and orientation. Use GPS if we're not 100% sure where we are (well.. that LOOKS like a portage trail, but I feel like it should be further up,) and use that to compare on the map.

You can use features on a map to triangulate and approximate your position if you don't have a GPS.

Each canoe has a set of maps and compass to cover the trip, each canoe also has a GPS. We mark both ends of all portages, and the camp site. Several years ago we were coming out during one of the fires, very early morning just after light the combination of fog and a little smoke was so bad we had to talk between canoes to keep track of each other, and without the GPS would have had a real problem. When we got to the end of the second portage we saw signs closing the area that had been put up the day before.

quote Wick: "

Do you live by Bellefontaine?
"

Close to saint paris and west liberty,,
20 min south of bellefontaine"

I am just west of you on 36.........Piqua

Please, please take a map and a compass. Learn to read the map and learn to use the compass. I brought GPS once, ended up using it only to see how fast we could go. I will go enter trips, years even, without using the compass. I am fortunate that I learn land nav from both Cliff Jacobson and the United States Army Infantry School, so it comes easy to me. If you always know where you are, which is easy to follow on a map, you'll never get lost. And, quite frankly, I never get lost.

Mike

Just like in your car with a gps or on your phone app, a gps with mapping is the way to go. I don’t have a paper map in my car, but I do have a map somewhere in my pack. What could be better than a moving map?

Maps don't use batteries and don't get ruined when submerged.

I'm a tech guy. I prefer easy tech solutions over more difficult older manual solutions 100% of the time at home or at work. But in the wilderness, there are other circumstances to take into account. GPS is superior to map/compass in terms of accuracy and ease of use, but if your GPS craps out, you need something to get you where you need to go.

quote BuckFlicks: "Maps don't use batteries and don't get ruined when submerged.


I'm a tech guy. I prefer easy tech solutions over more difficult older manual solutions 100% of the time at home or at work. But in the wilderness, there are other circumstances to take into account. GPS is superior to map/compass in terms of accuracy and ease of use, but if your GPS craps out, you need something to get you where you need to go."

And, if all of your stove fuel leaks out into your pack, you'll need to learn how to cook over a fire. And, if your hammock splits down the middle, you'll need to figure out how to fashion it into a shelter. And, if your paddle floats away, you're going to have to develop some good whittling skills to fashion a replacement. None terribly likely, eh?

Carrying a gps into the wild is not a bad thing. Yes, you need to also bring maps; after all, they're dang light, so why not. But your gps will fall into the lake or fail out there on a trip about as often as any other piece of equipment brought along. Which is rarely. If you're comfortable with its use, have determined its advantages, and have a rock-solid mount to safely keep it with you, go for it.

I always bring a map and compass and also a gps. 99.9 percent of the time I just use the map, because direction becomes intuitive especially when the sun is out. I'm most likely to use the gps just to mark my campsites so later I can determine distance traveled etc.

For years I used to do extensive planning of my route (which would favor use of a preset gps) but I found that every time, once I was out on the water the route always changed. One big benefit of having a map is the ability to be sitting around the fire and seeing a larger view of possibilities for the next day or two.

On the other hand, I remember about three years ago I was heading west through Lady Boot Bay off Lac La Croix looking for the portage west into Pocket Lake and I got confused moving through the islands. Out came the gps, I changed to the proper heading and all was well. I usually preload or write down the portage gps info in the general area I'm going just in case.

IMHO, if you just use a gps, you never learn to "read" your surroundings and direction like you do when you are following a map and that is an important skill to have. On the other hand, a gps can be a useful backup. I have an inreach explorer. The screen is very small but I blue tooth it to my tablet which I have anyway for reading books, and between the two I get amazing detail. I bought a small waterproof box for cheap at wall mart that's perfect for carrying both.

I'd bring whatever turns your crank. I've never brought my GPS to the bw, but mainly because it's loaded with WCPP info and I don't feel like changing it. I've always wanted the red pine chip for the bw and may do that yet. Need it? No... But lots of good reasons to bring it. I agree that using a map is the best in terms of seeing the big picture and getting to know your surroundings better. Yes, the GPS works too, but the map reading g skills are priceless out there. Also a good place to practice using your GPS! I'd like to know if the features that tell you when the fish are biting and such have any merit. Haha. Clock, calendar, moon info, lots of apps that make it an interesting piece of gear to have along.

I traveled through the BRT from Crab Lake to Clearwater and carried maps, GPS, and photos of the maps on my cellphone. The GPS came in handy a couple times when the trail disappeared due to fallen trees and overgrowth here and there, but it wasn't 100% needed. I kept it off vast majority of the time and only turned the cellphone on to snap a few pictures here and there.

Next year when I'll be canoeing I figure on the same thing as before as it worked out. GPS to resolve fine issues, map to look at big picture and cellphone for the "just in case" moments.

GPS is nice, in general, but if you like to drive on scenic routes or make other deviations, it becomes almost worthless. I like to have an actual map. I like to have a visual of the route for the day and to know what I might be passing. I've had many situations that GPS is just wrong and having a good idea of our route and destination was helpful. For my upcoming trip, I'm using an app on my phone called Maps.me. I've downloaded the maps and have practiced using it at home so I know its limitations. I've had a few people now tell me that in general, they like maps.me better than google maps. A big exception is that maps.me doesn't have a public transportation option yet--just car and walking.

My brain is a map and compass brain. GPS images for wilderness seem like gibberish to my brain, can't get enough of the big picture maybe. I use GPS in a car, works for roads for me. But I love my map and compass when hiking or canoeing.