I would like to say thank you everyone for the tips and tricks shared in the last post.

So let me summarize what I learned, for catching Lakers, from everyone and ask a couple more questions.

1. You can catch them year around, but opener is easiest.

2. Fish deep lakes like Sea Gull, Sag, Gillis, Bat, JAP, Daniels, Ester, Hanson, etc. Then, check on the DNR Lake Finder for more info on size of fish and populations. Also, fishing gently slopping, rocky, rubble type areas, inflowing rivers, and flowing water is helpful.

3. Most folk seem to troll with large lurers and spoons, (that match the know food source for that lake) then start jigging with artificial or like bait. (Shock has the relaxed shore approach with dead bait) Also, the three-way swivel system works well when trolling deeper water.

4. In the summer you have to troll deep at least 40ft over deep water or try jigging over vertically over deep reefs as well.

5. When jigging in warmer water temps follow QuecticoMike's advice use a "one ounce hair or plastic jig. White or black colors seem to work best while vertical jigging over a deep reef. I prefer to use white. You will need to lift the rod a little higher when jigging at extreme depths. Since you will be fishing so deep you probably won’t feel the hit itself as most of the strikes come during the drop. You will just feel a heavier weight on the line, when you do, set the hook as hard as you can."

6. RPike likes "Sonars, Buzz bombs, and Zingers. Something about the spinning buzz bombs and zingers really drives trout nuts at times."

So for my couple questions:

1. Do the No. 44 Sutton spoons work well in the BWCA? If so, what color combo would you recommend?

2. What tips do you have in judging water temp's without a fancy fish finder?

3. It seems depth is most crucial with lakers, with is the easiest way to judge how much line you've let out? (my reel doesn't back reel)

Thanks again everyone for the tips and advice. I feel I stand a much better chance to catch some this year.

-CanoeViking

You can count down your lure, just figure out how many feet it drops per second. or buy one of them fancy fish finders.

Just like everything else the first one is the hardest.

I have read that the Rapala purple tail Dancer is the go to lure for trolling. Purple is the last color to disappear in the color spectrum, might have something to do with the fish identification of a bait.

quote Savage Voyageur: "I have read that the Rapala purple tail Dancer is the go to lure for trolling. Purple is the last color to disappear in the color spectrum, might have something to do with the fish identification of a bait. "

similar is the storm deep thunderstick, trout color (pinkish purple). this has been my most productive pattern for LT with silver 2nd and firetiger which has never produced LT. just my personal experience, and all trips were in june.

quote CanoeViking: "

3. It seems depth is most crucial with lakers, with is the easiest way to judge how much line you've let out? (my reel doesn't back reel)

-CanoeViking"

When start trolling in deep water, we often paddle, then coast and let out line until our rig hits bottom. Let out another 5'. Close the bail, put the rod in the holder, and start paddling again. Snags are not too frequent, but require back paddling and restarting. Often, as you start forward and your baits rise, you will get a strike.

Depth of bait is not really too critical, as lakers will come up several feet for a lure. But you don't want to be below suspended fish.

(We use 4 oz. keel sinkers in-line. Cast back fifty feet and you know how much line is out.)

Over the years there have been several post relating to laker fishing. Some of the same techniques come up every time and then there are times where you'd swear if you asked 10 people they would each give you a different answer.

I know there are several people that claim the rapala and minnow baits are the way to go but we've never had real good luck with them. We've always tripped in mid June and the large majority of lakers we have caught came on spoons. Silver doctor spoons trolled on 150+- of line is usually what worked the best.

Bobbernumber3 has good advice. I also prefer an inline weight and see no advantage over a 3 way swivel except a good potential for tangling. I also like the concept of coasting, letting your line out until it hits bottom adding a bit and then trolling.

I also like DeanL advice as Lakers are suckers for spoons no doubt.

Heres the rub.........You need to get around 30 to 40 ft in summer (although I have caught them in 10ft over deep water during stormy conditions even in late summer). You can do that via Tail Dancers (Rainbow trout) or big spoons like the Doctor spoon or you can use flutter spoons like the Sutton with an in-line weight.

The Taildancer is the easiest to use because the hooking ability is so good. Large lures like the Doctor need more attention. Hooks need to be razor sharp. Big lures usually mean bigger hooks and bigger hooks need more force to set, simple physics.

I you use mono there will be significant stretch in the line. Considering you want to fish deeper starting from mid june on that means lots of line out. You need to have your rod situated that much of that stretch is mitigated. If you troll with your rod out at a 90 degree angle to your boat your rod will be absorbing a lot of the needed hook setting force because it will BEND towards the fish. Throw in a bunch of stretch and you might not hook the fish and in fact you might not even know you got a bite. Angle the rod back at a 45 degree angle to put the butt end of the rod more in play. Here is an example of how your rod should look while trolling. Note how it is angled backwards? A rod holder is a huge help and something I find indispensable for trolling (a MUST have IMO).

Thanks for the tips on getting the line out far enough. Those are really helpful to me, because most other ways I've read have been much more complicated.

Also, the angle of the rod holder for Lakers with mono line is very helpful. (MasterTangler - Thanks for the picture to go with it)

The info on purple was insightful. I knew purple was the last to be seen in the color spectrum, but never connected to fishing, thanks!

Yes, Sutton spoons work great! Snap weights are a convenient way to get them down deep. Snap weights make it easy to vary how much weight you are using. I prefer to err on the too-heavy side, because it means I don't need to let out as much line.

Repeatability is important for consistent trolling success. So pay attention when you let out line. Counting arm-lengths of line as you pull it off the spool is a fine way to know how much you have out. If you used 40 pulls (~120' for me) and got a fish, do that again. If you are not having action, try shallower or deeper.

If you use braided line, you don't need to worry about the stretch. Just saying. ;-)

Lakers are often more scattered in the early season. Trolling may be way more effective then than jigging. In the summer, if you find them bunched up deep, jigging is great. Case in point, last Memorial Day my partner and I caught over 20 small lakers one day, all flat-line trolling spoons that got down no more than a few feet. We caught them in water ranging from 8-70' deep, on top of reefs, and out in the middle of the basin.

Don't be surprised when following trout bump you lure multiple times before really latching on, especially smaller ones.

It looks like youve got some great advice here.

Mastertangler hit it on the head. Fish water that has them, but perceverance is the key.

I would add that a depthfinder will help you ten fold and also save you lots of money in lost spoons and keel sinkers. (A 130 dollar depth finder will pay for itself if your trolling lakers close to the bottom on irregular structure.)

I have caught all my nice trout in 30-40fow in the spring or summer belly on the bottom.

It looks like youve got some great advice here.

Mastertangler hit it on the head. Fish water that has them, but perceverance is the key.

I would add that a depthfinder will help you ten fold and also save you lots of money in lost spoons and keel sinkers. (A 130 dollar depth finder will pay for itself if your trolling lakers close to the bottom on irregular structure.)

I have caught all my nice trout in 30-40fow in the spring or summer belly on the bottom.

I am going to disagree with #4 about trolling deep in summer. Yes it works but I typically troll 20-30 feet at the deepest the first week of August and do just fine. I prefer no hassle or weights. I have caught Lakers in 15 feet of water in August so it is a fallacy you have to go deep, although I typically target them shallow over deeper water. The water up there stays cold year round especially in the bigger/deeper lakes. It is simpler and easier on the fish. Lakers feed up on the Cisco schools, you will see them on the depth finder. The lakers feeding on them are very aggressive and easy to catch—-those are my favorite to catch—they make me look good. You won’t catch the gigantic ones like this in the summer but dredging up the big ones from the depths is hard on them.

Here are some August trout trolling less than 30 feet deep.

You would be hard pressed to find better advice in such a short space via this thread.

Rpike suggests braided line and he is probably correct. Braid is thinner and has no stretch. Since it is thinner it will achieve greater depths than comparable mono as there is less diameter to have to "cut" through the water. But braid has some characteristics which should be noted. That same stretch that mono has also helps keep you connected to a fish. That stretch acts as a bungee or shock absorber of sorts. Although Laker mouths are put together rather well pulled hooks with trebles can be an issue with braid and tight drags........the hook just basically rips out due to excessive force. The remedy is a SLIGHTLY lighter drag setting than what you have if you were fishing mono. When I get big fish near the boat on spinning gear I typically flip off my anti reverse so I can back reel or in extreme dire emergencies just let go of the handle completely and feather the spool with a forefinger.

Some anglers and anglerettes ;-) dislike the visibility of straight braid, myself included. To that end I put a 6' piece of fluorocarbon via an FG knot (use the search function to find the thread) to help disguise my offering. The bigger the fish the more picky it becomes.

I also like Rpike suggestion of using a snap weight. A snap weight is an in-line set up whereby the weight is attached via a compression clip (much like you would find on a planer board). The advantage is you can place the weight any place on your line, even 20 ft from your flutter spoon (sutton etc). The disadvantage is the removal of said weight while in the midst of the fish fighting process........fortunately it takes mere seconds but sometimes that can be enough to lose the fish especially if you are fishing with barbless hooks.

Tim does mostly what I do sounds like. I merely put a crank bait back in 25 to 30 ft of water and ease around. I typically go in August and catch them 30 ft down over 70 ft of water. I suspect the lakers are in the shallower water to feed and putting a Tail Dancer in front of them which mimics the shape of their favorite prey (ciscos) is a formula for success. Hooking ability with the small sharp trebles is easy enough. I do put my lure way back and like 8lb trilene XT in GREEN. I don't troll fast but rather a medium type speed. My day might look like this..........Morning is bass and walleye, mid day is trout, evening is Pike and walleye.

The whole jigging thing sounds fun and effective but as noted by a previous poster you must jig where the fish are to be effective. Easier said than done. For those of us who do not really know exactly where the fish are trolling is the best option to FIND fish. If you catch one or two it might not be a bad idea to drift through the area while jigging a white Kalins jig on a 1oz jig head.

I just want to say thanks again for all the help and tips, even with some differing opinions is see common themes. I have learned a lot and I am very excited to catch some lakers this next year. I will trip report on how it goes this spring.

Thanks again folks!

quote CanoeViking: "I just want to say thanks again for all the help and tips, even with some differing opinions is see common themes. I have learned a lot and I am very excited to catch some lakers this next year. I will trip report on how it goes this spring.


Thanks again folks!"

Nice guy (or Gal? ;-)

Indeed, do well and let us know how it goes. One last bit........have confidence in spite of any initial failures. Laker fishing can often be a game of perseverance. When they are chewing its easy. When they are not it can be tough. My suggestion is to try them at various times through the course of the day and to KEEP TRYING day after day. I have read where Lakers can shut down sometimes for a few days........and then crank up. Probably weather related.

Say your going to day trip to some far flung cove to fish for bass.......you should always run a lure, be it crank bait or spoon, to your destination. And again on your way back. You always have a lure out........and suddenly "bada-bing". They are tasty as well.

After catching your laker proceed to the nearest flat rock. Filet your fish, stick it inside a gallon zip-lock and then place it in a wet canvas or burlap sack out of the sun. The evaporative effect will keep your filet cool for at least 2 or 3 hours. No dragging the fish on a stringer. Make sure the bag stays wet.

Mastertangler - I’m a guy :-) I’m determined to catch myself a laker but patience and perseverance seems to be the key I have been reading and the key I’ve learn for all fishing, just some species require more than others.

Also the tip about filleting and keep them cool is new to me and I will remember that for the future.

Thanks again everyone.

quote CanoeViking: "Mastertangler - I’m a guy :-) I’m determined to catch myself a laker but patience and perseverance seems to be the key I have been reading and the key I’ve learn for all fishing, just some species require more than others.


Also the tip about filleting and keep them cool is new to me and I will remember that for the future.


Thanks again everyone. "

If none of those great lures work for you, a silver little cleo will button one up for you.

Heddon Tadpolly lures are great, shallow-running crankbaits. They are probably discontinued, and certainly hard to find. They have a nice, wide wobble, similar to a Reef Runner or a Tail Dancer, but they run quite shallow. If the trout are suspended high, they work well.

quote CanoeViking: "Mastertangler - I’m a guy :-) I’m determined to catch myself a laker but patience and perseverance seems to be the key I have been reading and the key I’ve learn for all fishing, just some species require more than others.


Also the tip about filleting and keep them cool is new to me and I will remember that for the future.


Thanks again everyone. "

I must admit that when I saw Mt's "Nice guy (or Gal?)" comment, I thought "shieldmaiden?"
LOL....sorry.

quote Jeriatric: "

quote CanoeViking: "Mastertangler - I’m a guy :-) I’m determined to catch myself a laker but patience and perseverance seems to be the key I have been reading and the key I’ve learn for all fishing, just some species require more than others.



Also the tip about filleting and keep them cool is new to me and I will remember that for the future.



Thanks again everyone. "

I must admit that when I saw Mt's "Nice guy (or Gal?)" comment, I thought "shieldmaiden?"
LOL....sorry."

Yup...no shieldmaiden here

I have had *tremendous* success in recent years trolling "shallow" lures over deep water. I'm sure there are times when you need to go down deep and dredge them up, but I have consistent success trolling no deeper than 20 feet down all season long. Since I haven't had to go deep to get them, I'm not sure if I'm missing out on bigger ones that are closer to the bottom. I haven't caught any monsters, so maybe I am.

I think it can be very helpful to fish smaller lakes, especially when starting out. A lake like Knife or Agnes (in Quetico) or La Croix might have more and bigger fish in it, but they're so big it's difficult to know where to start. If you're not catching them, is it because you're not deep enough? Wrong color? Wrong size? Wrong lure action? They're just not biting? Or is it because you just haven't gone over any fish? If you have a depth finder, you can start to answer some of those questions, but it can get dispiriting pretty quickly when paddling in the middle of nowhere just hoping for a hit. Then, if you catch one, was it a fluke? It can be hard to pin down a pattern when you don't have much information. Stick to small lakes if you can...and if you can make it up there, go to the Q. There are lots of lakers in the BWCA, but I think the Canucks are dumber. :)

Re: how much line to let out, using a tape, I measure out 100' of line and there I attach very, very tightly a bobber stop. Sometimes I'll add another one 150' feet up the line, too. Just make sure to tighten them down, as you don't want them to slip. You can even add a drop of glue to ensure they stay stuck.

Well I can't just assume a Canoe Viking is a guy now can I ? On the History channel they have that Viking show and they have woman leaders. I wonder if that could be true historically speaking? Never watched the show. As I kid I always loved Vikings and Pirates.........then I grew up and realized what they did. Canoe Viking let me know when and where you are going to be tripping so I can avoid the area. I don't want my site plundered and burnt to the ground ;-)

Carmike have you used the little rubber type stops? I have had less issues with them sliding around compared to the string type stops which I despise. Or you could get a Shimano Tecota line counter like I have and its issue solved. Very sweet little line counter and handles light lines very nicely.

I to have had some good success trolling shallow over deep water. I have had one "epic" walleye evening over a reef on Basswood where it seems that the walleye did not move vertically on the reef (shallow and deep) but rather laterally and I found them off the reef over 70ft of water. I must admit it was accidental as I was making a big wide turn to make another pass over the top of the reef and then "bingo". I started marking the fish and then put the Tail Dancer out from the reef and it was 2 hours of nice ones over 70ft of water including my biggest 7.5 on the Boga (most guys would of probably said "thats a nine lb fish" but the boga doesn't lie). FWIW I was still catching them 25ft down even right at dark (August). Good thing there wasn't anybody around as I was doing some hootin and hollerin.................. "Yea baby, got another one, come to poppa" ;-)

Fish look up for food but not so much down. I have caught 2 lakers down as shallow as 10ft over deep water in August when moving form spot to spot. One on the original balsa Husky rapala and one on a Chatterbait. Fish do what they want I guess.

Yep, I've used the rubber ones, but I just use fly line to tie them in place when I've spooled off the requisite amount of line (and if I remember, a tiny bit of glue, which is in the first aid kit). Just easier that way...I don't have to slide the thing all the way up the line, risking any damage. And if I end up getting a tangle or snag that causes me to lose significant line, I just find an open space, pace off (roughly) 100 ft, and retie the knot on the line. Certainly not perfect, but often close enough. I'm not so worried about being *exactly* 100 or 110 ft back from the boat; what I do want is the repeatability of knowing I can get it the same distance back as the last time.

I often only bring two rods on my canoe trips -- one baitcaster, one spincast. I have plenty of line counters for fishing at home, and I don't really want to haul one of them along with. I can see where the added precision might pay off from time to time, but a cinched-down-tight bobber stop keeps it simple enough for me and allows the repeatability I want.

I've toyed with getting some of the metered lines (Fireline and PowerPro both can come that way), but I haven't done so yet. Maybe the next time I'm due for a respool.

Yikes, what was I thinking? Sliding a rubber stop 100 ft up a line would be sort of crazytown.

The Tecota is quite unlike most other line counters being small with very tight tolerances (no problems with small diameter line getting stuck inside the reel). I wouldn't bring it in just for Laker trolling but if your precision trolling near the bottom for walleye it sure makes for fast, efficient and effective trolling. When I know crank bait "X" bangs bottom with 75ft of line out it is very satisfying to KNOW exactly where your at all the time. Its just funnerer with lots less hassles. I don't have to guess that I am sorta kinda close but I know when I am 24" off bottom, and when I am 5' off bottom or when I'm going to bounce bottom. Better! Throw it on a Johnny Morris (Bass Pro) carbon lite rod with micro guides and the entire rig comes in very acceptably weight wise. The only drawback is all you can do with it is troll or maybe jig in a pinch. But lots of my August trips may be 75% trolling anyway so it works for me.

It sounds like you're maximizing the strengths of a linecounter. Because I only troll "shallow" for trout and don't enjoy chasing walleye while in canoe country, it's not worth it to me to bring them.

carmike: "It sounds like you're maximizing the strengths of a linecounter. Because I only troll "shallow" for trout and don't enjoy chasing walleye while in canoe country, it's not worth it to me to bring them. "

Whoa Nelle! You don't enjoy chasing walleye while in canoe country! They are coming for you with pitchforks and torches ;-)

Truth be told I don't really enjoy chasing average sized walleye while in canoe country either. But walleye over 5lbs start to get my attention and the goal is one over 13lbs so I can tease Wally13. I guess canoe country for me is as much about the environment I am catching the fish in as the fish itself. I can catch plenty of bass and walleye on Lake St Clair or Lake Erie but catching a big walleye out of a canoe is sort of special for me. Lately its been about Pike but time to shift gears I think.

Mastertangler and Carmike thanks for your conversation here. I like what both have share for judging line out.

Carmike - Do you use superglue?

Mastertangler - Thanks for sharing about the line counter, all of the one that I read reviews for have issues with small line and inconsistencies. Glad to know there is one that works out there. On the Viking note, I am in the same boat, I really liked them more before I know what all the did. It is interesting too, the role of ladies and how it seem easy for them to switch roles if need be. Also, you can rest assured l like fire, but I keep it only in the fire pit and have never been know to burn other canoeist sites down. ;-)

I know its another thread, but what is your favorite Tail Dancer size and color? if you share those things.

I like the largest Taildancer and Rainbow Trout has been the best producer for me. But hang around long enough and you will hear me blather on about fas-snaps. These little clips are the cats meow when it comes to crank baits and the ability to securely downsize your line and get a solid connection with lighter lb tests. You will not typically see a split ring on any of my hard bodied baits, especially crank Baits or stick type baits. The double wire of a split ring provides inferior physics to tie to. With light line the knot has GOT to be 100%. There is no margin for error, especially if your fast trolling with light line. Tie light line to a double thickness of wire (split ring) and you can easily sacrifice up to 50% of your knot strength.

Yep, I use superglue. Probably not necessary, but it's one less thing to worry about.

MT:
I live in central MN and fish 4-5 times a week; usually it's Mille Lacs, Leech, Cass, Winnie, the Miss, etc. (I'm a teacher, so I have plenty of time off). I catch enough walleyes all week long, and I do enjoy the chase, but canoe country for me is about big pike, topwater bass, and recently I've become (only mildly, I swear) obsessed with figuring out the trout. I also don't keep any fish, so the culinary aspects of a walleye fillet aren't a factor.

There is certainly something special about the big 'eyes, and they do bulldog pretty good, but I can only catch lake trout up there, and the big pike are very few and far between down here, so that's what I focus on while in the canoe.

Ya know carmike I really wanted to like you, honest...........but someone who gets to fish 4 or 5 times a week is on my list. Your as bad as Quetico Mike.

My wife is also a teacher. She teaches Art and Drama. I applaud teachers as they add to the civil society.

I am going to explore the relationship between temp and Lake Trout location. I know that most Great Lakes Trollers consider Lakers a bottom type fish and troll accordingly. I have caught them on Basswood off the bottom however and typically do well there with quality fish averaging around 8lbs. Did they merely rocket up to snatch my bait? I dunno.

I have done very poorly on Lakers the two times I have tried for them in Woodland Caribou. Agean Lake is supposedly rife with big Lakers. I fished high and low, trolled and jigged and managed one smallish fish. Then a few years later I tried on Musclow sacrificing considerable chunks of time when weather permitted trolling a variety of presentations. No dice. Both WCPP attempts were in August.

This summers trip is focusing on Walleye and Lake Trout (WCPP). My intention is to use a temp device which records temps every 5ft. Find out the intersection between bottom and preferred temp and focus on that depth.

Digital Temp Gauge

I can second the Shimano Tecota. Maybe not totally "necessary" equipment, but definitely reliable. I have also used the power pro depth hunter braid with a fluoro leader. Both systems work well for measuring the amount of line let out. I like carmikes plan: simplicity. We all take bobber stops.

mastertangler: "I like the largest Taildancer and Rainbow Trout has been the best producer for me. But hang around long enough and you will hear me blather on about fas-snaps. These little clips are the cats meow when it comes to crank baits and the ability to securely downsize your line and get a solid connection with lighter lb tests. You will not typically see a split ring on any of my hard bodied baits, especially crank Baits or stick type baits. The double wire of a split ring provides inferior physics to tie to. With light line the knot has GOT to be 100%. There is no margin for error, especially if your fast trolling with light line. Tie light line to a double thickness of wire (split ring) and you can easily sacrifice up to 50% of your knot strength. "

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know that a split ring would cut it to half strength.

Well CV I should put a fine note on that. Tying to a split ring with LIGHT line will cut your line strength significantly. Will it cut it to 1/2? I don't know for certain but the difference is certainly dramatic. You can minimize the difference if you are still intent on using a split ring by tying off in the small gap where the split ring is only one wire thickness. This practice is fine with lighter lb tests and will not open up or come apart. But the fas-snaps are such a better presentation that I automatically prefer them.

The fatter the line the less it becomes an issue. Mono, particularly, wants to join itself to things of like diameter. Once the diameter of the attachment point becomes larger than the diameter of the line bad things start to happen especially with 90% of your typical fishing knots. Envision the physics........not only is the double wire of a split ring usually thicker than light line but is oval shaped as well. Not so good. Fishing is, after all, largely a game of physics and the person which applies the rules of physics will naturally be a better angler.

A major exception to the diameter rule is the Gryp knot which is tied via a tie fast tool. The loops encircle the running line and as pressure is applied the loops actually become tighter around the main running line. It is superior in as much as it excels with light line and larger tie offs. But like everything in fishing it is not the be-all, end-all in the knot discussion. It does not do as well when tying off to small diameter attachment points..........but thats when other more common knots excel. I know of no other knot which can do what the Gryp knot does. It is startlingly effective in certain scenarios and also does nicely with fluorocarbon. You can get the tool at most fly fishing departments but I also use it for salt water on line as heavy as 100b test (just use 3 wraps instead of 6). If you have any issue getting a knot to stick while using the tool you must vary the # of loops. I like 6 with light line but fluorocarbon might only want 5 loops. Experiment to see which is best. A quick little tug off the tool is also required as is wetting the line (especially fluorocarbon which is prone to heat damage). When the knot is right the tag end is straight up. Clip as close as you want.

Whats the point? Light line and crank baits / stick baits can be very effective combination for stubborn or finicky fish. If i'm not having luck the first thing I typically do is downsize my line. Lures perform better and the "here I am" line is no longer a turn off. But to turn a bite into a fish with light line is no easy task and everything must be perfect and that includes fresh line and knots which are 100%. Fas-snaps, tie fast tool, the gryp knot and the improved clinch are all I use with mono. If tying off to a worm hook or jig head and its thicker diameter I use the gryp knot. If tying off to a fas snap I usually use an improved clinch.

mastertangler: "Well CV I should put a fine note on that. Tying to a split ring with LIGHT line will cut your line strength significantly. Will it cut it to 1/2? I don't know for certain but the difference is certainly dramatic. You can minimize the difference if you are still intent on using a split ring by tying off in the small gap where the split ring is only one wire thickness. This practice is fine with lighter lb tests and will not open up or come apart. But the fas-snaps are such a better presentation that I automatically prefer them.


The fatter the line the less it becomes an issue. Mono, particularly, wants to join itself to things of like diameter. Once the diameter of the attachment point becomes larger than the diameter of the line bad things start to happen especially with 90% of your typical fishing knots. Envision the physics........not only is the double wire of a split ring usually thicker than light line but is oval shaped as well. Not so good. Fishing is, after all, largely a game of physics and the person which applies the rules of physics will naturally be a better angler.


A major exception to the diameter rule is the Gryp knot which is tied via a tie fast tool. The loops encircle the running line and as pressure is applied the loops actually become tighter around the main running line. It is superior in as much as it excels with light line and larger tie offs. But like everything in fishing it is not the be-all, end-all in the knot discussion. It does not do as well when tying off to small diameter attachment points..........but thats when other more common knots excel. I know of no other knot which can do what the Gryp knot does. It is startlingly effective in certain scenarios and also does nicely with fluorocarbon. You can get the tool at most fly fishing departments but I also use it for salt water on line as heavy as 100b test (just use 3 wraps instead of 6). If you have any issue getting a knot to stick while using the tool you must vary the # of loops. I like 6 with light line but fluorocarbon might only want 5 loops. Experiment to see which is best. A quick little tug off the tool is also required as is wetting the line (especially fluorocarbon which is prone to heat damage). When the knot is right the tag end is straight up. Clip as close as you want.


Whats the point? Light line and crank baits / stick baits can be very effective combination for stubborn or finicky fish. If i'm not having luck the first thing I typically do is downsize my line. Lures perform better and the "here I am" line is no longer a turn off. But to turn a bite into a fish with light line is no easy task and everything must be perfect and that includes fresh line and knots which are 100%. Fas-snaps, tie fast tool, the gryp knot and the improved clinch are all I use with mono. If tying off to a worm hook or jig head and its thicker diameter I use the gryp knot. If tying off to a fas snap I usually use an improved clinch. "

I’ve seen the fas-snaps before and didn’t know if they worked. Glad to know they do. Does the Trilene knot work as good on them? Also, thanks again for the extra info. I like to learn and it all helps.