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bwcasolo
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12/09/2017 05:24AM
What else is out there that you have had success with? Fireline is the only one I am familiar with. I mostly troll in spring.
 
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mastertangler
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12/09/2017 06:03AM
I fished with a guy who uses fireline with nothing else but a very light Knot2Kinky titanium leader. He did well with walleye and trout. So much for stealth LOL.

But I cannot bring myself to fish like that. I like power pro in heavier sizes (30 to 80lb) and like Suffix 832 in lighter lb tests (don't ask why as I have no coherent answer ;-)

And then of course I use a 6' to 10' fluorocarbon leader via an FG knot.
bwcasolo
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12/09/2017 06:47AM
i have usually tied direct to the fireline, no leader, i imagine it is a visibility thing with the leader?
12/09/2017 09:06AM
Before I departed for a Laker fishing trip to famed Lake Athabaska I loaded up a reel with 30 pound power pro, which I thought would be great for Laker fishing. When I got to the camp, one of the guides was checking out our equipment to make sure we were properly geared up for the next day. He seen I had braided line on one of my Calcutta reels. He strongly recommended that I switch over to 20 to 30 pound mono. He stated that they had a problem with braided line getting pulled down into the spool on larger fish. Not only on initial hookset, but also when fighting the fish. He stated many clients have lost big fish when using the thinner diameter line. What happens is the line gets embedded in the spool under other line and does not allow the line to exit the reel when the fish makes a run, or after the initial violent strikes that a big Laker can deliver. Granted this scenario only happens on larger fish, but isn't that what we are all after? The average size fish we would be catching were around 20 pounds in Athabaska. It is a remarkable fishery. I did change out my line on the guides request. My uncle was my boat partner the first day. He decided to keep power pro on his reel. He just didnt think it would be a huge issue. The first day we had tremendous action with fish after fish in the high teens to up to 20 pounds. Later that afternoon my uncle got a hit while we were trolling. This strike was from a much larger fish for sure, probably in the 30 to 40 pound class. After fighting the fish for 5 minutes, it made a strong fast run, and sure enough the power pro embedded in the spool, and knotted the line. That was the end of the battle! The fish was gone, and he had a broken pole. The line didn't break because of the strength of the braided line, but the pole did! Needless to say, everybody in our group switched all the poles to mono and had no problems the rest of the trip. The largest Laker we caught that trip was 53 pounds. All members of the group caught numerous fish in the 30 to 40 pound range. I'm sure the chance of this being a issue in the boundary waters is slim, but I use only mono line since that trip and have good results.
Mnpat
senior member (72)senior membersenior member
 
12/09/2017 09:58AM
Summer lake trout I use 10 fireline with a flouro leader.
Winter lake trout I use pline for abrasion and some stretch.

Any braid over 40 lb won't dig into the spool when spooled properly under tension.
12/09/2017 10:11AM
quote Mnpat: "Summer lake trout I use 10 fireline with a flouro leader.
Winter lake trout I use pline for abrasion and some stretch.


Any braid over 40 lb won't dig into the spool when spooled properly under tension. "
Could be, we were using 30, not 60 .
mastertangler
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12/09/2017 12:57PM
Wow what a great story Wallee. Dream fish to be sure.

I am in a conundrum however. I certainly don't doubt your guides advice and I would be inclined to listen to them as well......but something isn't quite kosher.

In salt water the usage of power pro is common and for faster harder pulling fish than even a 50 lb laker. I wonder what the deal is? Is it the type of reel, how the power pro is put on or perhaps the diameter of the power pro?

I put a great deal of weight with guides, mates or captains. When all else fails do what they suggest.
bwcasolo
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12/09/2017 01:17PM
quote walllee: "Before I departed for a Laker fishing trip to famed Lake Athabaska I loaded up a reel with 30 pound power pro, which I thought would be great for Laker fishing. When I got to the camp, one of the guides was checking out our equipment to make sure we were properly geared up for the next day. He seen I had braided line on one of my Calcutta reels. He strongly recommended that I switch over to 20 to 30 pound mono. He stated that they had a problem with braided line getting pulled down into the spool on larger fish. Not only on initial hookset, but also when fighting the fish. He stated many clients have lost big fish when using the thinner diameter line. What happens is the line gets embedded in the spool under other line and does not allow the line to exit the reel when the fish makes a run, or after the initial violent strikes that a big Laker can deliver. Granted this scenario only happens on larger fish, but isn't that what we are all after? The average size fish we would be catching were around 20 pounds in Athabaska. It is a remarkable fishery. I did change out my line on the guides request. My uncle was my boat partner the first day. He decided to keep power pro on his reel. He just didnt think it would be a huge issue. The first day we had tremendous action with fish after fish in the high teens to up to 20 pounds. Later that afternoon my uncle got a hit while we were trolling. This strike was from a much larger fish for sure, probably in the 30 to 40 pound class. After fighting the fish for 5 minutes, it made a strong fast run, and sure enough the power pro embedded in the spool, and knotted the line. That was the end of the battle! The fish was gone, and he had a broken pole. The line didn't break because of the strength of the braided line, but the pole did! Needless to say, everybody in our group switched all the poles to mono and had no problems the rest of the trip. The largest Laker we caught that trip was 53 pounds. All members of the group caught numerous fish in the 30 to 40 pound range. I'm sure the chance of this being a issue in the boundary waters is slim, but I use only mono line since that trip and have good results. "
great story indeed. being a mono person, and with the facts you shared, i will stick to mono. i've gotten by with 8lb trilene xt, low vis green for lakers in the bwca and have been fine. i was curious about the braided line. thanks. most of the fish i have caught have been under 10 lbs.
12/09/2017 02:08PM
quote mastertangler: "Wow what a great story Wallee. Dream fish to be sure.


I am in a conundrum however. I certainly don't doubt your guides advice and I would be inclined to listen to them as well......but something isn't quite kosher.


In salt water the usage of power pro is common and for faster harder pulling fish than even a 50 lb laker. I wonder what the deal is? Is it the type of reel, how the power pro is put on or perhaps the diameter of the power pro? The way he explained it , it was the smaller diameter of the line ..


I put a great deal of weight with guides, mates or captains. When all else fails do what they suggest. "
The guide said it was the smaller diameter that was the issue. I did notice all of the guides were using clear mono.
old_salt
distinguished member(2016)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/09/2017 02:22PM
I use 12-15 lb mono, never lost a fish due to broken line. With a proper drag set, you won’t either.
12/09/2017 03:30PM
quote old_salt: "I use 12-15 lb mono, never lost a fish due to broken line. With a proper drag set, you won’t either." Agree....
mastertangler
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12/10/2017 06:35AM
bwcasolo........a man after my own heart using 8lb green XT. I thought I was the only one. Superior knot strength and probably breaks closer to 10lb of actual force. Does fine on the spool as long as the reel isn't dinky (small diameter spool). For superior finesse fishing with small baits try using the 4lb XT in green. You will be astonished at the size of fish you can catch with the stuff.

15lb mono seems rather excessive in my book. Crank baits don't dive as deep and their action is less than with lighter lb tests. There are few fish in canoe country which you can't beat with 10b test in open water. The only advantage is you can horse them in a bit more quickly. Although I would use 15lb test as the length of line off say a dipsy diver and a spoon. No stretch, no room for error.
carmike
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12/11/2017 12:18AM
I use braid -- whichever is cheapest. I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference (in performance, anyways) between brands. Pair that with a flouro or mono leader, and I'm happy. MT and others are right to point out that strong/thick line (whether braid or mono) isn't really necessary; I like the braid not for the extra strength but for the increased castability, sensitivity, and hooksetting power, especially at the end of long casts from a seated position. And I like the mono/flouro because it's less visible and breaks more easily; trying to get a lure unstuck with 40+ lb. braid is no fun. Plus, the mono/flouro is a little stiffer and doesn't let topwaters tangle on themselves quite as often.

Your mileage may vary, as they say.


bwcasolo
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12/11/2017 05:45AM
mastertangler: "bwcasolo........a man after my own heart using 8lb green XT. I thought I was the only one. Superior knot strength and probably breaks closer to 10lb of actual force. Does fine on the spool as long as the reel isn't dinky (small diameter spool). For superior finesse fishing with small baits try using the 4lb XT in green. You will be astonished at the size of fish you can catch with the stuff.

15lb mono seems rather excessive in my book. Crank baits don't dive as deep and their action is less than with lighter lb tests. There are few fish in canoe country which you can't beat with 10b test in open water. The only advantage is you can horse them in a bit more quickly. Although I would use 15lb test as the length of line off say a dipsy diver and a spoon. No stretch, no room for error. "

all my years fishing i have used 4 lb low vis green xt. yes, it is amazing what you can catch with that line, and i have caught some hog smallies.
i think years ago i probably saw the tip from fishing with al linder. it stuck.
my biggest smallie, 5lb 7 oz. was released off that line, very healthy release as well.
i'll stick to 8 lb on my baitcaster for trolling.
mastertangler
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12/11/2017 06:07AM
Al Linder uses 4lb green XT? Who knew? I got turned onto the stuff decades ago via a fishing pal. We were a good team.......I was "find'em" and he was "catch'em". He had a boat but was more or less clueless about finding fish and would spend endless time on non productive spots. Finally I got frustrated and said "Gimme this boat" and started calling the shots. He used 4lb green XT and rubber worms and I soon followed suit.

Lots of different lines to catch Lakers I guess. I used lead core on Isle Royale and it worked well except it seemed that it took the fight out of the fish a bit.
AmarilloJim
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12/11/2017 07:36AM
FYI to some a Calcutta is a baitcaster. Even if your just trolling for walleyes you need to be careful pulling out snags because of this.
mapsguy1955
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12/11/2017 11:23AM
I caught a 45 lb Kingfish on a jig with 30 lb Powerpro and a 40 lb Flourocarbon shock leader. I've caught Lakers to 30 lbs on similar rigs but the initial attack and run of the King surpassed the Laker. I didn't have a problem with the line. I'm thinking the guides weren't exactly right on the tendency of braid to pull down into the spool. I haven't seen it. All I use is braid with a leader. In the Q I use 8-10 lb power pro for everything.
AmarilloJim
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12/11/2017 11:42AM
mapsguy1955: "I caught a 45 lb Kingfish on a jig with 30 lb Powerpro and a 40 lb Flourocarbon shock leader. I've caught Lakers to 30 lbs on similar rigs but the initial attack and run of the King surpassed the Laker. I didn't have a problem with the line. I'm thinking the guides weren't exactly right on the tendency of braid to pull down into the spool. I haven't seen it. All I use is braid with a leader. In the Q I use 8-10 lb power pro for everything. "
Do you use a spinning real?
Why would the guides have an effect?
ewbeyer
member (42)member
 
12/11/2017 11:58AM
You will not have an issue with braid digging into the spool in the BW. A 20 pounder, however rare, would be a time consuming affair because your rods brought into the BW could not horse a fish like that, not to mention you would have a hard time keeping your canoe upright putting the kind of pressure you would need to bury the line in your spool. The chance of catching anything bigger is highly unlikely. I switched to braided after many years of mono for several reasons and I am not going back for trolling/jigging: 1) no memory/twist issues 2) no stretch - important for hooksets while ice fishing, in particular, and for detecting the first false strike while trolling 3) generally better toughness/abrasion resistance and 4) thin diameter for sensitivity - especially ice fishing. I use12- 15 fireline, I think, which has about a 6 lb mono diameter, and I tie a 8-10 flouro leader to a barrel swivel.
rpike
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12/11/2017 12:06PM
Certainly heavier braided line would be fine, say 30 (minimum) to 65 pound. Putting the braided line very tight on the spool is important. Getting super thin braid (say 10 pound) on tight enough to sustain a strong run (or a solid snag - they happen) is tough. The snags I get while trolling downwind pull harder than any trout!
rpike
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12/11/2017 12:24PM
I use diameter as a reference almost more than pound test when selecting braided line. In power pro, 12# mono is about the same as 50# braid. 20# mono is more like 80-100# braid. Larger baitcasting reels really aren't meant to use super-thin line.

I would certainly have followed the Athabasca guide's recommendation, especially after losing a big fish.
bwcasolo
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12/12/2017 05:37AM
mastertangler: "Al Linder uses 4lb green XT? Who knew? I got turned onto the stuff decades ago via a fishing pal. We were a good team.......I was "find'em" and he was "catch'em". He had a boat but was more or less clueless about finding fish and would spend endless time on non productive spots. Finally I got frustrated and said "Gimme this boat" and started calling the shots. He used 4lb green XT and rubber worms and I soon followed suit.


Lots of different lines to catch Lakers I guess. I used lead core on Isle Royale and it worked well except it seemed that it took the fight out of the fish a bit. "

this was quite a few years ago, maybe 25?
mastertangler
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12/12/2017 06:05AM
Yea Linder has probably moved on. It was probably 30 years ago when I used to use it almost exclusively. Super clear strip mines with not a lot of snags and we would pop very nice big fat bass. Lots of 5lb fish in those private lakes which are good ones in Michigan.

The stuff also casts a mile if you don't use a small diameter spool. The old Zebco Cardinal reel with its wide spool was ideal. We also used to fish a huge marsh coming off Lake St Clair and in the early spring the big bass would be as thick as thieves but in the shallow clear water getting close was a problem. Hello 4lb XT! Throw an original perch colored j-11 rapala and long casts and it would get crushed. Huge fun........those were some glad days.

It also came in really handy on that unnamed lake at the end of Kings Point in the Quetico several years back. There was 4 of us and we ventured out to secure lunch. It was super sunny and flat calm. You could see the big smallies cruising but they wouldn't eat. I dropped to 4lb and a 4" worm and had our guys lunch in no time flat including a decent pike in addition to bass. 4lb green XT, it flat out catches fish in tough conditions.

Hey arent we supposed to be talking about braided line for Lakers and not getting all nostalgic? Ahem, yes braid will help you get deeper ;-)
12/12/2017 09:32AM
I like to use the Precision Trolling App for my IPhone that allows me to put my trolling lure in the "Strike Zone."

Precision Trolling App

Most of the lures we purchase today have the lures’ achievable depth written on the box, but most of us struggle to know the exact depth that lure is running at variable speeds and distance behind the boat, as each lure achieves its depth differently from another. If an angler is able to understand what their particular trolling crankbait is doing while deployed they are able to increase their hook up percentage considerably.

The Precision Trolling Data App has over 180 crankbaits downloaded in the app, and I can look at the lure I choose to troll with and determine with great confidence how deep my lure is running with a specified amount of line put out.

For example:

For Lakers: Deep Tail Dancers TDD-11 116 feet of line out .... 25 feet deep
For Walleye: Deep Down Husky Jerk DHJ-12 120 feet of line out .... 17 feet deep

10 lb. Berkley XT MONO is what Precision uses to determine their depth curves ( I am sure Mastertangler is smiling right now as he is a big fan of Green Berkley XT Mono). I really like the extra stretch for hook sets when I have over 100 feet of line out.

You really need a good line counter reel to use the Precision Trolling system. The Shimano Tekota Line Counter Reel that MT recommends is perfect for this app.

I use Suffix 832 braided line for jigging and bottom bouncing walleyes. But have moved to Mono for trolling for lakers and walleye.

I have had good luck using this app. I look for fish on my depth finder and try to put my trolling lure just over the top of the fish I am seeing.

"Try it .... You will like it."




mastertangler
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12/13/2017 06:41AM
You are a sly dog Wally13. I used to have the book that Precision trolling put out.......that was many, many years ago. The app sounds sort of nifty.

I may only bring 4 types of cranks and already know what their characteristics are. The line counter makes it easy, just let line out until you tick bottom, note the amount of line out and check the depth on your depth finder. From then on you have it wired.

Sometimes I can't help but wonder if trolling to precisely might hurt me. 12" to 24" off bottom as compared to maybe fishing 5' to 7' off bottom. I guess it depends on the mood of the fish and wether they want to hunt something down or not. I like the concept of trolling fast and bringing the bait right into the fish........just ticking them off as it were. Get them angry at this little fish who has the nerve to swim right up next to me.

I have been using 20lb Suffix 832 and 10ft of fluorocarbon leader via an FG knot. Works pretty good.
 
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