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Wick
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01/27/2018 09:40AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I have been thinking of buying a gps unit like ResQme. I also fly ultralight airplanes. When i fly, i am about 500-1500 feet up a lot of the time. I like to chase deer ect in my plane. I can fly very slowly!

Well, if i was to wreck in trees, or in a gulley, it is possible no one would see me wreck, and i would lay there and die.

Now with my planned trip to the bwca, that just added another use for it, and justified buying one a little more.

As i understand it, there is no subscription to pay. You register your unit so they have info about you like medical and such.

I have heard different opinions on the cost of rescue and other details. You guys know anything about these? Should i learn about multiple brands?

How much does it cost to have that blackhawk come get you? I talked to sawbill last week. They said one got used last summer.
 
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01/27/2018 10:28AM  
There are several.
SPOT is one. InReach is another.
 
MReid
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01/27/2018 10:32AM  
I googled ResQme, and it's just a device to extricate yourself from a vehicle. You seem to be alluding to satellite-based personal locator beacons/communication devices, such as Spot, InReach, and ACR ResQLink. Each has their own characteristics, e.g ResQLink is emergency (one way) communication, Spot and InReach are two way via satellite-based texting. Basically, the ResQLink is like dialing 911 with no additional information. The Spot and InReach provide two way satellite texting with rescuers and/or family/friends, and they may provide additional services for additional charge (e.g. weather reports). The ResQlink is a one-time purchase with no subscription fee (batteries last 6 years, and then need to be replaced by the manufacturer). Spot and InReach use different satellite arrays (Spot uses Globalstar, InReach uses Iridium). The two way devices are more expensive ($250 or so for a ResQlink, up to $400 or so for the InReach), and require a subscription, either monthly or annually.

The main differences between the two types is that one (ResQlink) is for emergency only (call in the troops), and the others allow two way communication, e.g. check ins with family, as well as additional information to rescuers once they're contacted.
 
01/27/2018 10:40AM  
I had to read this post several times. It’s none of my business but chasing deer with an ultralight strikes me as an unsportsmanlike behavior. I wouldn’t plan on a Blackhawk helicopter rescue, the forest service is not Uber. If I recall that helicopter was from the national guard, all paid for with tax dollars that are drying up fast.
 
WIMike
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01/27/2018 11:13AM  
jwartman59: "I had to read this post several times. It’s none of my business but chasing deer with an ultralight strikes me as an unsportsmanlike behavior.


+1.
 
yellowcanoe
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01/27/2018 12:04PM  
jwartman59: "I had to read this post several times. It’s none of my business but chasing deer with an ultralight strikes me as an unsportsmanslike behavior "


not familiar with Ohio laws but illegal in many states.. Why the OP boasted is beyond me.
 
01/27/2018 12:06PM  
Same thought as MReid.
I own a ResQLink as he described. I do not put them in the catagory of Spot/Inreach, much more powerful and linked directly to search and rescue instead of a 3rd provider. The PLB is more close to an EPRIB used in the aircraft industry. The response is apropriate to the beacon location, not always a helicopter but more often ground based S&R. The initial search is from tax funded organizations and work similar to a 911 call after a car accident. I keep mine in my truck, and take it on cross country road trips, when not in the bush for emergency use.

Far as "chasing deer", I'll consider the user and language and asume it harmless (my application of benefit of doubt), researchers and DNR use the same methods for heard estimation and studies.

butthead

PS: I think Wick means OceanSignal rescueME PLB1 bh
 
andym
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01/27/2018 01:52PM  
We carry an ACR PLB for emergencies. I like the combination of sending gps coordinates and a radio homing beacon plus the small size. We aren’t interested in people tracking our trips or sending ok messages and so don’t use SPOT.

2way communication could be useful and we have sometimes rented a satellite phone. But I’ve also had those batteries die and so like the plb.

In the BW, rescue will be by float plane and so will not happen at night. There are too many rocks in the lakes to land without light. There was a good article about this in the BW Journal a while back. So, no matter what you carry you have to be ready to stabilize someone for several hours.
 
Wick
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01/27/2018 02:42PM  
I was looking at the Rescueme, and the ResQlink. I sort of combined the names wrong. Bad proofreading by me!

From MReids description, i think that is what i need/want. I do not want to communicate, just want something for a last ditch effort after i know i cannot help myself anymore. Also it would be much cheaper to buy once then renting a satellite phone 1 or 2 times would be, with use in multiple hobbies.

I mentioned blackhawk heli only because i repeated what sawbill woman told me on the phone. I do not know if it was a blackhawk, or a national guard heli. I plan on never needing the “uber of the forest service” to find out. I have found out things don’t always go like i plan though.



As far as the deer,,,i do not know what is offensive,,or what you think is illegal about flying beside a deer, or a herd of 8-10 sometimes,,and seeing big bucks running and clearing 10ft obsticles with seemingly no effort! It is a beautiful sight to see, or watch multiple deer run and turn together as if they were reading each others mind.

It is an angle i know very few people ever see. The deer is not hurt, and so far, i am unhurt as well! The deer has zero problems turning a 90 degree angle and leaving me behind any time they decide. They seem to be unafraid and always return to my property for another race another day.

I cannot help your feelings about it. Everything offends someone these days.
Unsportsman like? I am not hunting the deer.

If moderators decide it is offensive, please delete the thread as you wish. I was only explaining some other backround info on why i was interested in the rescue options.
 
mjmkjun
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01/27/2018 03:13PM  
I have a SPOT GEN3. I like it and use it but don't use the tracking capabilities as I want to prolong battery life. (2 AA's) I only send a"I'm OK" message once a day to a couple of people. In the event I have to be rescued I bring a book to read while waiting. Also, Ibuprofen & whiskey as relief aids. ;-)
 
Wick
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01/27/2018 03:42PM  
mjmkjun: "I have a SPOT GEN3. I like it and use it but don't use the tracking capabilities as I want to prolong battery life. (2 AA's) I only send a"I'm OK" message once a day to a couple of people. In the event I have to be rescued I bring a book to read while waiting. Also, Ibuprofen & whiskey as relief aids. ;-)"


My research shows the spot and inreach are not much more expensive to buy then the non communicating types like resQlink, and saw the spot advertised cheaper. I see subscription costs that are around $20 monthly to around $200 yearly, which is where they would make the money from anyway. I can see that if traveling solo, my wife might enjoy knowing i was alive.

On one place i saw, it seems it could cost $20-25 everytime you want to change the plan/subscription on the inreach, when you go from an s.o.s plan to a more advanced plan, or the reverse.

 
Northwoodsman
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01/27/2018 04:03PM  
My brother and I both have InReach SE's. I researched the heck out of them and found them to be the best value. I define value as the ratio of features vs. cost. Some people like the InReach Explorer, but others also say that the GPS screen is too small and it doesn't have the ability to load maps from a SD card; I can't confirm.

I pay a $24.95 annual fee which gives me the flexibility to activate it in 30 day increments. I activate it typically one or two months each year. I use the preset messages often, they are unlimited and free while the device is activated. For the $34.95 I pay for a month while activated I get 40 messages (you can type them on the InReach, a cell phone, or on a tablet) and unlimited tracking points at 10 minute intervals. It also gives you a very good weather report and forecast for your exact location. You also get unlimited location pings (others following you). You can get Freedom plans as low as $14.95 per month but I choose not to pay $.10 per tracking point. Annual "Rescue Insurance" is also really cheap through them, I think it's like $20 - $30. I forget how much I pay.

I like the fact that others can send me messages and I can have a conversation if I need to. If I needed to be extracted I like to know that I can be having a conversation while waiting. I can even contact an outfitter, or a friend or family, if it's nothing urgent. "Hey, I'll give yo $50.00 if you paddle out to me with a nice hot fresh pizza and a couple of cold beers". Remember, people can come to you on a day permit, but you can't leave the BWCA and re-enter. I'm kidding, I would never do that. I have thought about it more than once.

As a bonus my family can follow me on google maps and always know exactly where I am. If I forget to turn on the tracking feature, my family can do it remotely or they can just ping me. The battery life is around 100 hours. If it is on and tracking is activated make sure it has a clear view of the sky or it will run the battery down searching for a satellite. I keep mine clipped to the thwart in a waterpoof box with a clear lid.

Garmin bought DeLorme about 2 years ago and now the InReach is a Garmin device and costs about $100 more than it did when it was a DeLorme. It does have some nice features. If I lost mine and had to start over, I would buy the exact same unit. Please note that you can't just pick one of these up and take it out of the box and expect to use it on a trip. You need to set up an account and activate it using a computer. Any time you make changes to the plan, or your contact list, or your preset messages, you also need to hook it to a computer and sync it.

 
mjmkjun
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01/28/2018 03:55AM  
Wick: "
mjmkjun: "I have a SPOT GEN3. I like it and use it but don't use the tracking capabilities as I want to prolong battery life. (2 AA's) I only send a"I'm OK" message once a day to a couple of people. In the event I have to be rescued I bring a book to read while waiting. Also, Ibuprofen & whiskey as relief aids. ;-)"



My research shows the spot and inreach are not much more expensive to buy then the non communicating types like resQlink, and saw the spot advertised cheaper. I see subscription costs that are around $20 monthly to around $200 yearly, which is where they would make the money from anyway. I can see that if traveling solo, my wife might enjoy knowing i was alive.


On one place i saw, it seems it could cost $20-25 everytime you want to change the plan/subscription on the inreach, when you go from an s.o.s plan to a more advanced plan, or the reverse.


"

Yes! It is advisable to read the fine print of subscription services. Warning! Slippery SPOT ahead! For instance, if you want to cancel SPOT services they must be notified two months (?) before the renewal date. (Perhaps their billing software is cheap, outdated and slow?) However, once you read the fine print you know who you're dealing with and you mentally retain the prerequisite(s) for cancellation.
 
01/28/2018 05:14AM  
I'm not an expert on this topic, but one thing I'd look into is say you had to use the service... I thought SPOT had like an insurance you could buy in case you did need extraction. Is there a such thing? Or I'd look into what it might cost to be extracted otherwise. That could be an expensive bill. The two way communication could be helpful to explain what kind of emergency your talking about. I'd hate to pay a hundred grand to have the Calvary come for something very simple. 911 in the bush can get very expensive fast. You might just be hung up where you could call butthead extraction services at a much cheaper deal. Haha.
 
Wick
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01/28/2018 05:48AM  
nctry: "I'm not an expert on this topic, but one thing I'd look into is say you had to use the service... I thought SPOT had like an insurance you could buy in case you did need extraction. Is there a such thing? Or I'd look into what it might cost to be extracted otherwise. That could be an expensive bill. The two way communication could be helpful to explain what kind of emergency your talking about. I'd hate to pay a hundred grand to have the Calvary come for something very simple. 911 in the bush can get very expensive fast. You might just be hung up where you could call butthead extraction services at a much cheaper deal. Haha."


I am trying to figure the cost side of rescue out also,,though if it is really needed,,I’ll pay! I read different opinions. Some of the websites say it is a taxpayer paid service. Butthead mentioned that in his answer, but i wonder if he meant the first responder/location response was the free taxpayer service, then the extraction would be the cost? Sort of like the cop showing up at an accident for free, but you pay for the ambulance?


I would not call unless it was critical, and i think people that are packed up with equipment, having prepared for their trip in a more remote location such as the bwca, would be the type of person to call for help because of a small problem, as is the case with normal 911 lines.
 
SourisMan
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01/28/2018 07:27AM  
Wick: "I was looking at the Rescueme, and the ResQlink. I sort of combined the names wrong. Bad proofreading by me!


From MReids description, i think that is what i need/want. I do not want to communicate, just want something for a last ditch effort after i know i cannot help myself anymore. Also it would be much cheaper to buy once then renting a satellite phone 1 or 2 times would be, with use in multiple hobbies.


I mentioned blackhawk heli only because i repeated what sawbill woman told me on the phone. I do not know if it was a blackhawk, or a national guard heli. I plan on never needing the “uber of the forest service” to find out. I have found out things don’t always go like i plan though.



As far as the deer,,,i do not know what is offensive,,or what you think is illegal about flying beside a deer, or a herd of 8-10 sometimes,,and seeing big bucks running and clearing 10ft obsticles with seemingly no effort! It is a beautiful sight to see, or watch multiple deer run and turn together as if they were reading each others mind.


It is an angle i know very few people ever see. The deer is not hurt, and so far, i am unhurt as well! The deer has zero problems turning a 90 degree angle and leaving me behind any time they decide. They seem to be unafraid and always return to my property for another race another day.


I cannot help your feelings about it. Everything offends someone these days.
Unsportsman like? I am not hunting the deer.


If moderators decide it is offensive, please delete the thread as you wish. I was only explaining some other backround info on why i was interested in the rescue options. "


You might want to check DNR regulations in your state. I know at least some states prohibit chasing wild animals with a motor vehicle. It's referred to as "wildlife harassment".
 
MReid
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01/28/2018 07:32AM  
In the U.S. western states, rescues are managed by sheriff's offices, and engage volunteer SAR personnel. Rescues are at no cost to the patient. A lot of the equipment expenses are covered by the United Way, which is based on donations. Only very rarely are any expenses incurred by the patient, e.g. especially egregious behavior, either intentional or by gross irresponsibility.

I don't know about the eastern U.S. and Canada.
 
01/28/2018 08:34AM  
SAR Insurance

Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.

butthead
 
01/28/2018 10:16AM  
I carry the ACR PLB.

Since my wife is the one on the other end, I let her decide which route we would go. She read every thread on this forum on the topic and she decided she wanted something for me in case something really went wrong, but did not want the tracking/2way communication like the Spot and Inreach. She thought that waiting for messages and watching the tracking would just make her more anxious and nervous. She likes the "no news is good news" approach. There were enough stories of Spot malfunction.... sometimes equipment error and sometimes human error where the people at home become really worried when everything was actually fine for their loved ones in the bwca.
 
yellowcanoe
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01/28/2018 05:17PM  
Wick we weren't offended. We just want you out tripping not paying a potential fine.. Its not our opinions .. Everyone has one, The only opinion that matters is the law...

Now I have a PLB.. Mc Murdo Fast Find. Its got a five year battery and no subscription. But the battery replacement is some expensive. I paid $200 for it in one shot. It is for Mayday situations only..

Who comes to you is who is closest.
 
scramble4a5
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01/28/2018 05:52PM  
mjmkjun: "I have a SPOT GEN3. I like it and use it but don't use the tracking capabilities as I want to prolong battery life. (2 AA's) I only send a"I'm OK" message once a day to a couple of people. In the event I have to be rescued I bring a book to read while waiting. Also, Ibuprofen & whiskey as relief aids. ;-)"


Same.
 
inspector13
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01/29/2018 07:35AM  
Wick: "I am trying to figure the cost side of rescue out also,,though if it is really needed,,I’ll pay! I read different opinions. Some of the websites say it is a taxpayer paid service. Butthead mentioned that in his answer, but i wonder if he meant the first responder/location response was the free taxpayer service, then the extraction would be the cost? Sort of like the cop showing up at an accident for free, but you pay for the ambulance?

I would not call unless it was critical, and i think people that are packed up with equipment, having prepared for their trip in a more remote location such as the bwca, would be the type of person to call for help because of a small problem, as is the case with normal 911 lines. "

Rescues within the BWCAW are made through the individual county’s sheriff’s departments, with the help of volunteers they organize. Donations are accepted. Once you are out you may have to pay for costs such as ambulance service.

 
Bearskin Lodge
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01/29/2018 09:07AM  

I would personally recommend a device with 2-way communication capabilities, even if you are only planning to use it for emergencies. Depending where you are, the time of day, and conditions it's pretty possible that the first people to reach you will be coming by canoe (at least on the Gunflint side. The USFS Beavers are in Ely, DNR I believe is in Grand Rapids). A detailed message helps responders decide what equipment to bring, and how may resources are needed. In canoes and planes there is limited space. It also lets you communicate If your condition is worsening, and details about your location. A simple HELP! message doesn't give responders nearly as much to deal with.

2 way communication is also great in the event of a false alarm. SAR is all volunteer, and responses take up a lot of time and sometimes expose members to significant risk. Being able to cancel a false alarm saves a lot of time.

Quinn
 
Wick
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01/29/2018 11:22AM  
Bearskin Lodge: "


Being able to cancel a false alarm saves a lot of time.


Quinn
"


I did think about that. Some of the non communicators I have looked at have things that cover the activating button to help prevent false alarms, but none I have read so far mention cancelling once the button is pressed.
 
JJ505
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01/29/2018 11:29AM  
I've looked into these since I commonly hike in out of the way places. Here's some info I found. There are basically two types of devices-- there's the Spot and InReach, both use private satellite networks and allow for communication out (InReach has a bit better communication-- and it can be two way). Spot is cheaper outlay and InReach is more expensive, but InReach allows more options for service plans and has an inexpensive plan by the month.

Then there are the Personal Locator Beams (PLBs), there are three brands ACR, McMurdo, and Ocean Signal they use government based networks and do not allow for communication otherwise. You buy the PLB and there is no service plan, however the battery is not user serviceable and you have to send them in every 5-6 years. ACR's high end unit has a limited communication out plan.

I do not know if they actually go off on their own and think sometimes people may inadvertently set them off. As long as you didn't intend to do it.. but obviously it taxes the search and rescue folks (I know of someone who it happened to-- with a SPOT and he was very surprised!)

 
andym
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01/29/2018 11:41AM  
From testing my PLB, sending an alarm by mistake is really hard.

Sending an unnecessary alarm because things get better or were misunderstood is possible and I can see the value of two way communication for that and getting more accurate help.

I guess the question is whether the two way texting with a family member is enough. Probably if you make sure they have the local contact numbers for the sheriffs office and forest service. When we carry a sat phone, we take those numbers with us.

I’d also like a device that just had two messages. One for time critical, life threatening situations and one for stable but not able to get out on ones own.
 
MReid
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01/29/2018 11:50AM  
I think all of them have a cancel button. The DeLorme InReach (pre-Garmin, but still available for a discounted price) had some problems with accidental transmissions--help would be requested without the owner knowing it. The safeties in the Garmin have been improved (you have to open a little door and then hit a button).

Regarding having the right emergency numbers, all the devices are routed to the local SAR resources (via third party), so you don't need the actual number for emergencies. Of course having that number may not hurt, but it's not necessary for emergency activation.

At least for the InReach, there are three set messages you have unlimited use of (e.g. Running Late, Ending Trip, or whatever you want to program it to), at no charge. There are other messages you can program separately to send out with just a few toggles, useful for quick standardized messages. And then you can actually text using the keypad, useful for responding to rescuers, etc. This type of texting is fee-based, but depending on your plan, you may get a fixed number included. You can also link it to your cellphone for improved texting capability.
 
billconner
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01/29/2018 12:52PM  
This topic must be in top 5 or maybe top 3 here. Sort of like outfitters, lots of personal preferences. I bought a Spot for my wife's peace of mind. I know I could use it in an emergency and in the BWCA and Quetico I am confident it will work fine and I don't need the rescue insurance. Were I canoeing in Viet Nam or Siberia or some other far flung place - maybe anywhere out of US and Canada - I'd get a PLB and rescue insurance.

I do like that I can have a message programmed that says I'm OK for now but can't get myself out of the park. And one that asks for a pick up with presumption I'm near an access point and can be shuttled. I also like that I can't be reached, so sticking with Spot. Happens to be Gen 2 - none of the features of 3 seemed worth changing.

Clearly this is not a topic on which we will find much consensus. Various abilities, philosophies, responsibilities, and family considerations among other things prevent that.
 
andym
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01/29/2018 04:02PM  
Yes, the SOS message will be correctly routed. My comment on having the phone numbers was for the following issue. If I use the text capabilities of a device to give information to a family member about the situation, they need to know who to reach to pass that along. I know on a sat phone that I can call the various agencies. I don't know if they have incoming text numbers. If so, I could communicated directly with them.

On the ACR ResQLink you can turn the beacon off but that could also be interpreted as a problem with the unit and rather than an attempt to cancel the rescue. So, if you do that you may or may not cause a search and rescue. There is no way to send a sorry that was a false alarm message.

The reason to register the units (required by law) is so that when it goes off they can call the listed phone numbers and see if you might just be at home where someone was playing with the unit.

False alarms are also why we go over the unit with everyone on the trip and everyone watches the self-test process in order to be well acquainted with the unit.

Yep, we won't reach consensus but we can provide enough info for people to understand the choices. And clearly I do see some value in some of the SPOT features. My wife might appreciate the OK messages except that she's with me. And my mother would be a huge worry wart for any missed messages.
 
JJ505
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01/29/2018 05:33PM  
Bearskin Lodge: "
I would personally recommend a device with 2-way communication capabilities, even if you are only planning to use it for emergencies. Depending where you are, the time of day, and conditions it's pretty possible that the first people to reach you will be coming by canoe (at least on the Gunflint side...
2 way communication is also great in the event of a false alarm. SAR is all volunteer, and responses take up a lot of time and sometimes expose members to significant risk. Being able to cancel a false alarm saves a lot of time.

Quinn
"


It's a good point, but do they do this during an emergency? I just answered my own question-- they do in fact do this.
 
Bearskin Lodge
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01/29/2018 06:13PM  

JJ505- I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but yes everything in the quoted paragraph is a possibility.

In regards to having phone numbers programed: I know with an inreach when you hit the emergency button it goes to a private service (I think in Houston?), and they then connect with the correct agency. They will also contact you on your device, making a defacto channel between you and the responders. It works ok, not great, but it's something.

SAT phones are obviously the best for two way communication, but are pricey. On Canadian trips I always take a list of phone #s for area fly in camps and air services since they could likely reach you much faster, and depending on your circumstances take out some of your gear. Not for free though.

A few years back SPOT told us that a false alarm in our area was caused by a nearby lighting strike. And an inreach that had white gas spilled on it sent out an sos as well.

Quinn


 
nooneuno
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01/29/2018 06:46PM  
Wick: "I have been thinking of buying a gps unit like ResQme. I also fly ultralight airplanes. When i fly, i am about 500-1500 feet up a lot of the time. I like to chase deer ect in my plane. I can fly very slowly!

Well, if i was to wreck in trees, or in a gulley, it is possible no one would see me wreck, and i would lay there and die.

Now with my planned trip to the bwca, that just added another use for it, and justified buying one a little more.

As i understand it, there is no subscription to pay. You register your unit so they have info about you like medical and such.

I have heard different opinions on the cost of rescue and other details. You guys know anything about these? Should i learn about multiple brands?

How much does it cost to have that blackhawk come get you? I talked to sawbill last week. They said one got used last summer."


I may not be as serfisticated as the rest of you folks but chasin flyin deer with an aero plane just don't seem right to me. I hope next year Santa gives yo nuthin but coal!
 
billconner
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01/29/2018 07:00PM  
The chasing deer issue seems like it could cut both ways. I thought a drone with camera spying on deer was pretty innocuous at 500 to 1500 ft in the air. A buzzing thing the size of a serving platter two football fields away does not seem very harrassing.
 
mutz
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01/29/2018 07:13PM  
Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them.
 
Wick
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01/29/2018 07:53PM  
mutz: "Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them. "


From what i read, it is illegal in michigan only if hunting,,per bill 54 and 55?
 
Wick
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01/29/2018 09:07PM  
Bearskin Lodge: "

A few years back SPOT told us that a false alarm in our area was caused by a nearby lighting strike. And an inreach that had white gas spilled on it sent out an sos as well.


Quinn



"


So the inreach must not be waterproof?
 
mjmkjun
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01/30/2018 03:48AM  
butthead: " SAR Insurance


Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.
butthead"

I know from experience it's cost effective to purchase the SAR insurance with a SPOT unit when you first sign up instead of an add-on later. Personally, I see no difference between the performance of SPOT GEN2 and the GEN3. I upgraded to GEN 3 at one point and I don't know why now. Maybe, lured by a sweet deal.
So, my point is, one can get a GEN2 at a bargain price and still benefit from its designated purpose.
 
Wick
distinguished member (287)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 04:30AM  
mjmkjun: "
butthead: " SAR Insurance



Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.
butthead"

I know from experience it's cost effective to purchase the SAR insurance with a SPOT unit when you first sign up instead of an add-on later. Personally, I see no difference between the performance of SPOT GEN2 and the GEN3. I upgraded to GEN 3 at one point and I don't know why now. Maybe, lured by a sweet deal.
So, my point is, one can get a GEN2 at a bargain price and still benefit from its designated purpose."


The insurance is cheaper at time of purchase? Is that a yearly/monthly or one time cost?
 
Wick
distinguished member (287)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 04:30AM  
mjmkjun: "
butthead: " SAR Insurance



Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.
butthead"

I know from experience it's cost effective to purchase the SAR insurance with a SPOT unit when you first sign up instead of an add-on later. Personally, I see no difference between the performance of SPOT GEN2 and the GEN3. I upgraded to GEN 3 at one point and I don't know why now. Maybe, lured by a sweet deal.
So, my point is, one can get a GEN2 at a bargain price and still benefit from its designated purpose."


Double post. I wish i knew what i was doing to cause that because i would stop doing it.
 
mastertangler
distinguished member(4432)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
01/30/2018 06:32AM  
No biggy from my perspective to follow some deer in an ultralight. In Florida they chase deer with giant motorized swamp Buggys and dogs and shoot the deer right off the Buggy. They call it "hunting" and it is a time honored tradition. So a little Ultra light flying above them is no big deal. Like every other critter they get used to stuff and once they begin to understand that nothing happens they will get less and less fearful (if they were ever really afraid to begin with).

I use a SPOT. Works for SAR. I see where one poster stated as fact that most SAR is volunteer. Nonsense.........that may be true in some jurisdictions but SAR is serious stuff usually done by professionals. The guys that came and pulled me out of Woodland Caribou Provincial Park in Ontario were far from volunteer and reminded me of Special Forces types. They also arrived with a 6 million dollar helicopter. Cant think of to many volunteers which have one of those parked in their backyard. FWIW Ontario does not charge for SAR. .............Not sure about the States ($$$) but the additional cost for SAR insurance with SPOT made it a "no-Brainer" to purchase it (an additional $20 per year).
 
billconner
distinguished member(8608)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
01/30/2018 07:22AM  
mutz: "Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them. "
I was on a job site and a drone - I think quad copter is more correct - was used for some pictures. If I had not known it was there and not had it pointed out in the sky,bi would have been completely unaware of it's presence. I probably would call it following or spying on rather than chasing, but not seeing it as harassing. I would assume the deer weren't even aware of the drone.
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
01/30/2018 07:48AM  
SAR can be volunteer. And don't equate the word volunteer with haphazard.

They are precisely trained. At least in the White Mountains where the paid staff is not numerous In Pukaskwa rangers are augmented with search and rescue from the Pic Nation.

Who rescues you depends on who is closest. I heard of a guy in Wabakimi that presses SOS expecting the rescuers to come from CFB Trenton which is quite a ways away but was astounded when twenty minutes later rescue arrived. They had been holding drills nearby.

Whether you get charged for the rescue depends on your location and the reason for the call. If you were in the mountains of NH unprepared and suffered an injury for unpreparedness expect a bill. If it was a legit slip and fall you are not billed. Those are merely examples.

In NYS a number of years ago an individual called for rescue when the lake froze in and it snowed a couple of feet overnight.. ( what was he thinking in November?)

They heloed him out but not the gear ( they don't get gear unless there is room)

Two weeks later he went back to the same site and again called for SOS. They came and picked him up again.. This evacuation was to jail.. no not pass Go do not collect $200
 
MReid
distinguished member (443)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 07:49AM  
mastertangler: . I see where one poster stated as fact that all SAR is volunteer. Nonsense.........that may be true in some jurisdictions but SAR is serious stuff usually done by professionals. The guys that came and pulled me out of Woodland Caribou Provincial Park in Ontario were far from volunteer and reminded me of Special Forces types. They also arrived with a 6 million dollar helicopter. Cant think of to many volunteers which have one of those parked in their backyard.


You might be referencing my post from above, included below. You sorely misrepresent what I said. I do, however, agree that "SAR is serious stuff", and it is sometimes done by professionals (your "Special Forces types"), and usually by people with accomplished skillsets pertinent to the operation. In the U.S., the military is used during some operations, primarily where specific aviation resources aren't available and/or there are military bases nearby. I've been involved with SAR for over 35 years, both as a volunteer and as a paid "professional" and have worked with the military on numerous operations. In some cases, the military is the perfect resource to draw on, and sometimes they have training specific to the operation needed (e.g. pararescuers in Alaska, who have glacier travel skills). And sometimes they don't, and that is where local SAR resources come into play. As a non-military SAR person, I've flown in numerous military helicopters where they are in support of local SAR teams. Where military resources aren't available, local SAR groups usually have access to private aviation resources, either under contract or some other agreement.

From my earlier post, for clarification:
"In the U.S. western states, rescues are managed by sheriff's offices, and engage volunteer SAR personnel. Rescues are at no cost to the patient. A lot of the equipment expenses are covered by the United Way, which is based on donations. Only very rarely are any expenses incurred by the patient, e.g. especially egregious behavior, either intentional or by gross irresponsibility.

I don't know about the eastern U.S. and Canada."
 
Bearskin Lodge
senior member (68)senior membersenior member
  
01/30/2018 08:41AM  

SAR in Cook County is all volunteer. I am pretty sure it is in Lake County as well. If you need rescue in the BWCA, the rescue will be run by the sheriff and a volunteer rescue squad. When I said that SAR is all volunteer, I was referring to the being rescued in the BWCA, which was the subject being discussed.

In regards to the inreach's waterproofness, It's waterproof. Just maybe not white gas proof. Or that was a defective unit, or that's not really what happened. Store your white gas on the outside of you pack liner and double check that the lids on tight and you'll never have to find out.

Quinn
 
andym
distinguished member(5340)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
01/30/2018 08:51AM  
Thanks, Quinn. I didn’t know that the inreach process would set up two way through them to the SAR folks. That’s a point in it’s favor.

Wick: yes, some of these devices are not waterproof and will malfunction if water gets into a circuit. A waterproof case or ziplock bag can make a big difference.
 
mastertangler
distinguished member(4432)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
01/30/2018 08:55AM  
Hmmm........ MReid I strive to be an intellectually honest person. The aforementioned post "seems" to read differently than what I had thought I read earlier. And thus the big problem with social media.......people often skim material and pull out what they "think" it says or misinterpret and comment. One reason I detest communicating via text and email except for the simplest of matters.

In any event, your post seems completely reasonable and my response not so much as I did indeed misrepresent your position. My bad. Thank you for the correction.

But who knows........perhaps it was someone else who suggested that SAR is all volunteer. I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much as long as someone is coming ;-)
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 09:43AM  
Wick: "
mjmkjun: "
butthead: " SAR Insurance



Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.
butthead"

I know from experience it's cost effective to purchase the SAR insurance with a SPOT unit when you first sign up instead of an add-on later. Personally, I see no difference between the performance of SPOT GEN2 and the GEN3. I upgraded to GEN 3 at one point and I don't know why now. Maybe, lured by a sweet deal.
So, my point is, one can get a GEN2 at a bargain price and still benefit from its designated purpose."



The insurance is cheaper at time of purchase? Is that a yearly/monthly or one time cost? "

Yes, it cheaper. Billed in full yearly, as it's billed with the yearly SPOT services subscription/auto-renewal. I assume that is likely the reason so many don't buy it when signing up bcuz it's a bit of a wallop to the wallet. I'm glad I have it though but hope to never need it. That reads odd, doesn't it. Another wonderful benefit of any of these devices is that they can be utilized to signal help for others in distress who don't have any type of device for signaling rescuers. I would imagine you'd have to hang at the location so the signal continues to send out GPS coordinates. Someone correct me if I wrong.
 
MReid
distinguished member (443)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 09:53AM  
mastertangler: I suppose it doesn't really matter all that much as long as someone is coming ;-) "


And it's nice to be able to push a few buttons to get them a'running!
 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
01/30/2018 10:03AM  
Wick: "
mjmkjun: "
butthead: " SAR Insurance



Some info on insurance, it is available with or without a PLB Spot or Inreach.
butthead"

I know from experience it's cost effective to purchase the SAR insurance with a SPOT unit when you first sign up instead of an add-on later. Personally, I see no difference between the performance of SPOT GEN2 and the GEN3. I upgraded to GEN 3 at one point and I don't know why now. Maybe, lured by a sweet deal.
So, my point is, one can get a GEN2 at a bargain price and still benefit from its designated purpose."


Double post. I wish i knew what i was doing to cause that because i would stop doing it."

A hiccup in the system. Not necessarily of your doing. Otherwise, if you hit Submit and it doesn't show up give it some time. It'll post, eventually.
 
01/30/2018 10:46AM  
"I would imagine you'd have to hang at the location so the signal continues to send out GPS coordinates. Someone correct me if I wrong."

May have been a factor in Kate Matrosova's fate, Catskill Mountaineer, quote, "Introduction Summary: Based upon most of the evidence, but not all the evidence, our overall conclusion was that she did some good planning, but she died due to small mistakes, conflicting use of the SPOT, and encountered some unfortunate luck. We concluded that multiple transmissions confused SAR as to her exact location. "

I am not recommending one system over the other but advocating users learn about the gear chosen. Limitations as well as benefits.

butthead
 
01/30/2018 11:49AM  
Thanks for the link to that sobering story, butthead.
 
WIMike
distinguished member (248)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/01/2018 07:59AM  
Wick: "
mutz: "Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them. "



From what i read, it is illegal in michigan only if hunting,,per bill 54 and 55?"


I contacted the Michigan DNR:

Question: When in an ultralight aircraft, is chasing or flying along side of or in close proximity to running deer or other wildlife legal?

A couple emails for clarification and then this:

Answer: If you can get us anymore information, we will have a chat with the person. This is definitely harassing wildlife.

I’m not looking to get anyone in trouble so I thanked them and said I would let the individual know. No skin off my nose what you do but I’d rather not see you or anyone else get in trouble.
 
Wick
distinguished member (287)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/01/2018 01:21PM  
WIMike: "
Wick: "
mutz: "Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them. "




From what i read, it is illegal in michigan only if hunting,,per bill 54 and 55?"



I contacted the Michigan DNR:


Question: When in an ultralight aircraft, is chasing or flying along side of or in close proximity to running deer or other wildlife legal?


A couple emails for clarification and then this:


Answer: If you can get us anymore information, we will have a chat with the person. This is definitely harassing wildlife.


I’m not looking to get anyone in trouble so I thanked them and said I would let the individual know. No skin off my nose what you do but I’d rather not see you or anyone else get in trouble.
"


i guess it is a good thing i do not live in michigan?

I also guess it helps that i own the land those deer tear up, the beans they tear up, the corn they tear up,,ect,ect. Here, i can get a permit to shoot them just because they are a nuisance and ruin my crops, any day I want it. I do not do that, The wildlife guys were at my farm last weekend to shoot a deer for me that got caught in the fence. We are not strangers. Please feel free to tell them whatever you want.
 
02/01/2018 02:23PM  
Wick, you should have stated that right off. My brother had land north of Duluth. The deer and him were enemies. It was a war zone and the deer won.
 
Wick
distinguished member (287)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/01/2018 02:36PM  
jwartman59: "Wick, you should have stated that right off. My brother had land north of Duluth. The deer and him were enemies. It was a war zone and the deer won."


i would rather talk about the rescue units. I only answer the deer comments when i can no longer resist.
 
Guest Paddler
  
02/01/2018 02:39PM  
Wick: "
WIMike: "
Wick: "
mutz: "Definitely would be considered harassment in Michigan, definitely illegal and I would be the first one reporting it if I saw someone doing it. The DNR does use planes to count and inspect deer but never close enough to the ground to both them. "




From what i read, it is illegal in michigan only if hunting,,per bill 54 and 55?"




I contacted the Michigan DNR:



Question: When in an ultralight aircraft, is chasing or flying along side of or in close proximity to running deer or other wildlife legal?



A couple emails for clarification and then this:



Answer: If you can get us anymore information, we will have a chat with the person. This is definitely harassing wildlife.



I’m not looking to get anyone in trouble so I thanked them and said I would let the individual know. No skin off my nose what you do but I’d rather not see you or anyone else get in trouble.
"



i guess it is a good thing i do not live in michigan?


I also guess it helps that i own the land those deer tear up, the beans they tear up, the corn they tear up,,ect,ect. Here, i can get a permit to shoot them just because they are a nuisance and ruin my crops, any day I want it. I do not do that, The wildlife guys were at my farm last weekend to shoot a deer for me that got caught in the fence. We are not strangers. Please feel free to tell them whatever you want. "


Trying to keep you from getting in trouble and you mentioned MI statutes so... Do whatever you want.
 
Wick
distinguished member (287)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
02/01/2018 03:00PM  
:


Trying to keep you from getting in trouble and you mentioned MI statutes so... Do whatever you want. "


yes, because the post above that from mutz was telling me about michigan law,,i went and read michigan law and saw it said "only illegal when hunting",,so i mentioned it to the poster. Was not saying I was in michigan, sorry for the confusion.
 
02/01/2018 03:50PM  
andym: "I’d also like a device that just had two messages. One for time critical, life threatening situations and one for stable but not able to get out on ones own. "

I have a SPOT and use the 1 pre-set text message for just such a situation.
I give my wife and pal the various numbers for local police and DNR/Park management.
I tell them if they get the "I can't get out on my own" signal, then call the locals and tell them I am stable, but trapped at the designated coordinates. An example of this would be if my canoe got destroyed in a rapids or by a tree fall. Even a broken leg(non-compound) might fall in this category.

The SOS button would be used for life threatening situations, e.g.compound fracture, serious bleeding wound, heart attack.
 
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