At the recent national gear show in Denver, Millennials were a focus and their buying habits.

"Sales of outdoor equipment are slipping as millennials drive changes in U.S. consumer habits by favoring clothes and sporting goods that are less specialized and more versatile, analysts say."

"Millennials — sometimes defined as people born between 1982 and 2004 — are less likely than the previous generation to demand outdoor gear that stands up to extreme conditions, said Matt Powell, NPD’s senior adviser for the sports industry. He used boots as an example."

Star Trib. Article

So what's your experience with what is happening with Millennials and more rugged outdoor trips like the BWCA?

Matt Powell, NPD’s senior adviser for the sports industry, is doing the industry no favors with a snotty comment like this: “The hardest, the most extreme condition some of these boots are going to have is walking from the Prius to the craft brewery."

It's not even based in truth: "J.D. Power’s 2007 review of auto industry marketing showed that only 2 percent of hybrid owners are 24 or younger; while 29 percent are between 45 and 54; and 33 percent are 55 and older."

Here's a 2013 profile of the average Prius owner: "Your typical Prius drivers are 8 times out of 10 males ages 30-50 with an income of roughly $45,000 all the way to $1,000,000 annually."

In a quick search, I couldn't find anything more current.

If Powell doesn't understand demographics and doesn't respect demographic groups, he's the last person who should be paid to advise.



Back to the question: I've chatted with a few Millennials who are happy-go-lucky fatalists. They think the world is unraveling and they want to have fun while they still can. So, rather than hoard acorns, as my generation does, they chase each other around trees, grateful for today.

Maybe they just don’t want to be or look like X’ers and Boomers who are “old”.
Create their own style like boomers long hair and casual dress.

They may feel they can dress outdoorsey, look cool and be someone who cares about the environment yet have their own style.

They may want lighter weight sexy clothes that show off their bodies to attract mates to reproduce with or go through the motions of it.

I see people being less masculine and adventurous. You can be that way virtually in Video Games and have cans of Red Bull that you can’t take to the BWCA.

A young women told me she wanted to Mountain Climb in Europe versus U.S. because at the end of the day you can go into a cool town and socialize and use technology. Day trip BWCA. Hang out in Ely, Winton and Grand Marais at night.

They may have an interest in that type of gear but realize that they can just borrow it from X’er parents or Boomer grandparents. If it’s heavy duty gear it will last for years.

In the early 1980’s the coffee and motorhome industry was concerned about slipping sales because the Boomers thought coffee was for old people and Mrs. Olson from Folgers was weird. They also thought RVer’s were fat and lazy. Repackaging (Starbucks) and a motorhome as a tool for exploration, freedom and adventure helped and the industries look fine today.

I used to cringe at the advertising on TV for those walk in bathtubs for old people. Now I really want one and I would marry Mrs. Olson.

adam: "So what's your experience with what is happening with Millennials and more rugged outdoor trips like the BWCA? "

The Millennials I know are more interested in things that exercise their fingers and thumbs, rather than their arms and legs. :(

Sounds like an industry trying to blame something external for the fact that their effort to sell the wrong product isn't working.

Recall that "millennial" is a specific term, referring to a cohort that can be defined a lot of ways but is generally considered the central cohort of children of the central cohort of baby boomers. The year 1982 is often used as the start because those are the kids who came of age literally in the millennium. Those "kids" are 36 now - which means that, at least figuratively, they are we: despite lazy cultural tropes, these are people approaching middle age, with kids of their own, parents approaching or in retirement who might need help too, bills to pay, jobs to hold down, etc.

Are they statistically *more likely* to eschew possessions, to spend less time engaging seriously with the outdoors, etc.? Maybe, but even if so, there's more variation among them than between their generation and others. But maybe it also has something to do with life stages. It's hard to spend money on gear (and that's what they're really worried about) when you're trying to raise kids, support parents, and pay a mortgage. And realistically, every upcoming generation is derided as less engaged, with the older generations wringing their hands about a generation that won't invest as much in the established status quo.

I imagine most of us on here are Gen X, with a lot of Boomers and a few Silent Generation, but there's probably plenty of Millennials too, who probably don't want to be identified as such because the lazy tropes about Millennials try and tell us that they don't belong. That's BS.

Maybe outdoor brands shouldn't be trying to sell actual mountaineering clothing as fashion clothing, rather than blaming generationalism for their problems.

On the heels of a fairly acrimonious divorce, my kids' (23 and 25 now) wells were severely poisoned by their mom. After eight years of very limited contact, joining me on canoe trips is what's getting them back in my life lately. Not sure about other millennials, but I'm pretty partial to the take these two have on the area!

As another acorn hoarder, nice comments MissMolly, I am concerned about our parks and whether millennials utilize them. I would love to hear from some of the millennials who post here. I would also love to know REI's customer profile regarding age groupings.
My personal experience is the group is very diverse representing a wide range of values. And as can be expected, those who have been exposed get infected and they love the outdoors. Many cannot see beyond their screens, but many do and I for one sell the idea of being in the outdoors when I talk with others.

Lots of stereotyping of the different generations. We only go by our own experience that is shaped by our biases. Most millennials I know are much more specialized.

Also, Gear is expensive and marketing has done a good job telling us we need the best. Somehow a carbon paddle is going to lead to a more enjoyable experience than a wood one. Maybe millennials are smart enough to not fall for the marketing and are more concerned about the what and the where than the how they get there.

I also would like to point out the negative consequences of using the term "millennials" as though there is one defining characteristic that they all share. I work with dozens of millennials on a daily basis as they are the primary work force where I am employed. I myself am only a few years older than the millennial age range, so acting as though someone 5 years younger than me is an entirely different person seems quite silly.

Time passes. Priorities change. As in all things, the business/corporate/recreation machine adapts or is replaced by an entity willing to make the change. This is nothing new. In 50 years the millennials will be complaining about how disengaged the newest generation is in what they were once interested in. And you know what, they will be right. It however won't mean the new generation has done anything wrong.

*Edited to add*
I thought it was important to answer Adam's question. What is my experience with millenials in outdoor pursuits like BW? If allowed the opportunity to visit and enjoy, they have the same reaction as any other generation. They either like it, or they don't. And telling them how they should think about it afterwards generates the same feelings as you telling your buddies that they are doing something wrong or have the wrong opinion. They don't listen, and will probably more wholeheartedly oppose your side of things just to prove their point.

I see a huge amount of interest in Hiking long distance trails and the ultra light gear that makes it possible for older people and more comfortable for younger people. The use of the AT,CDT, PCT and Camino in Spain are all growing rapidly. People seem to want the challenge of traveling as minimalists and finding out what that teaches them.

Send questions my way and I'll provide anecdotes.

I need specialized gear like a nice tarp and more dry bags but I think its true that I am a minority among my peers. Some friends have come with me to the bwca but have opted for buying cheap old gear at a thrift store or borrowing/renting what they can. No doubt those who fall in love with some form of recreation that requires special gear will indeed make the investment sooner or later. I really think we are too diverse of a generation to make generalizations.

Some Millennials need a little Jordan Peterson....

Is anyone else thrilled when Adam asks a question? It's like being granted an audience with the great and powerful Oz and it's not easy getting to chat with that big-headed cat. I think if I ever met Adam face to face, I'd be like this guy.

I have to laugh every time I read a lazy story about how millennials are ruining something. I get to the BWCA a minimum of twice a year and if I didn't have two young kids it would be more. Some of my gear is specialized and very expense, some of it isn't. Some of my friends like going and go every year, some of my other friends have zero interest.

missmolly: "Matt Powell, NPD’s senior adviser for the sports industry, is doing the industry no favors with a snotty comment like this: “The hardest, the most extreme condition some of these boots are going to have is walking from the Prius to the craft brewery."


It's not even based in truth: "J.D. Power’s 2007 review of auto industry marketing showed that only 2 percent of hybrid owners are 24 or younger; while 29 percent are between 45 and 54; and 33 percent are 55 and older."


Here's a 2013 profile of the average Prius owner: "Your typical Prius drivers are 8 times out of 10 males ages 30-50 with an income of roughly $45,000 all the way to $1,000,000 annually."


In a quick search, I couldn't find anything more current.


If Powell doesn't understand demographics and doesn't respect demographic groups, he's the last person who should be paid to advise.
...

"

Wow! Need a "chill-pill' here.

I think the speaker was using hyperbole to make a point... no more than that.

Chill pill? I've waited my whole life for someone to say, "You do look glum! What you need is a gramme of soma."

Here is a hierarchical representation of all the things mellenials wish they could afford.

I was born in 86 which makes me an early millennial. K. Fine. It's human nature to label things and categorize and organize, so if that's a label that helps people sort something out about me, I accept that.

As a millennial, I have to say, I find a lot of the discussion in this thread to be...distasteful. Frankly, I don't care if it is true that most/all of the millennials you know are this way or that. You should know better than to generalize, and it feels slightly ostracizing to see people I share much in common with suddenly picking on people based simply on their generation--a generation I and most of my friends share. And no, it's not consoling to be told that I'm the exception because in my experience, I'm not.

Now, this thread is FAAAAR from what usually happens when millennials are the topic of discussion, and I am thankful that so many of you have a more enlightened point of view beyond "Harumpf! Kids these days!"

So, the original topic of this post: millennial buying habits as it relates to outdoor gear...

I could list my gear or take a photo of my "camping closet," but I think I'll just say that my love of the outdoors and my "if you're going to do something, do it right" policy have equipped me with nothing but quality gear. Many of my friends? Yeah, not so much. Why? Primarily because of cost. Not just price tags, but a concern over time commitments and value. Some simply can't afford great stuff given their current budgets and the financial reality we live in (student loans, insane health care costs). Some could, but are unsure if they'd get the most out of expensive gear given other life plans they have like buying homes and becoming parents. For them, gear that is "good enough" IS good enough. One pair of friends of mine have a lot of "good enough" gear, and they do just fine with that gear; it may not be as advanced or last as long as most of my gear, but it was a whole lot cheaper, they don't get out as often as I do, and they're not as demanding of their gear as I am. What's wrong with "good enough" if it's good enough? Some, frankly, just don't know any better. They were raised to be frugal and/or they simply lack the knowledge or skill to do proper research on the things they buy. It wasn't easy for me to own the gear I do; it took (and takes) an actual commitment on my part to do it. I've had to put in effort to alter priorities in my life to even have a fraction of what I have in terms of gear.

Really, though, the only people who should really care that much about the gear-buying habits of this group or that group should be the companies selling the gear. WE should be more concerned with whether or not people are getting out into the world. We shouldn't be worried about what gear they are buying but whether they're buying necessary/useful gear and whether they know how to use it in order to have positive outdoor experiences. We should be worried about whether they are even experiencing these things or not.

Take your families camping, fishing, hiking, mountain biking, etc. Take your friends. Take your nephews, nieces, friends' kids (with parental permission of course). Show them a good time. Teach them about nature. Teach them about the gear and skills you use that can mean the difference between a good time and a miserable time outdoors. Don't worry about whether they're wearing special boots for the trip.

It may or may not be true that millennials' consumer preferences are more oriented toward more versatile and less specialized products than earlier generations.

It is indisputably true that millennials are dealing with higher levels of student debt, higher housing and health care costs, and lower wages relative to the cost of living than earlier generations.

Whether you sell houses, cars, outdoor gear, or anything else, your best bet for encouraging long term growth of consumer spending among younger Americans is to support policies that allow people to be more financially secure younger in life. That means universal health care, less expensive college education, and dense, affordable housing.

The story of reduced consumer spending on luxury products such as outdoor gear is really the story of the demise of the middle class amid skyrocketing income and wealth inequality. Increasingly, people graduating from college today are either extremely well off and bound for high paying careers, or overloaded with debt, stuck in low paying service industry jobs, and likely to have to take on more debt to fund the graduate degrees which are necessary today to obtain the jobs that thirty years ago required only a bachelor's or associate degree.

There remains a small middle between these groups (which I'm fortunate to be part of), but it's shrinking every year.

Think I'll dispense my yearly lump of social comentary, seems like a good place.
Negative Waves
I do get to spend a lot of time with younger generations, guess my glass is usually half full and filling. My generation had things no more difficult or easy, just different. One thing is for certain (as I view such stuff), the quality of life potential does keep improving.

butthead

Zulu: "I see a huge amount of interest in Hiking long distance trails and the ultra light gear that makes it possible for older people and more comfortable for younger people. The use of the AT,CDT, PCT and Camino in Spain are all growing rapidly. People seem to want the challenge of traveling as minimalists and finding out what that teaches them."

Yeah this. I think most of the people who hike these trails are millennials, especially thru hikers. I'm a boomer, however, I don't actually "get" generational antagonism. All generations have their foibles.

missmolly: "They think the world is unraveling and they want to have fun while they still can. So, rather than hoard acorns, as my generation does, they chase each other around trees, grateful for today. "

I love this, that is some good stuff MM!

Millennial here! Saw an opportunity to comment, so here are my quick thoughts:

1) Does anyone of older generations recall paying more in student loan payments each month than in rent? I didn't think so.

2) We have had technology involved in our lives since roughly middle school. Did we have jobs in 6th grade that paid for these cell phones/computers/internet access? No. So, how did we acquire this technology?...............think about that one. Once it comes to you, think of the word "Enabler".

3) Speaking of enabler, what's easier as a parent: Pack everything up and entertaining the children outside, or handing them an iphone/ipad or turning a movie on?

It makes my blood boil that older generations think we instinctually came out of the womb begging for technology. We had to be given technology to get addicted to, and we needed to be shown the outdoors in order to get into the outdoors.

We also have a lot of responsibility financially with the criminal College Tuition rates these days, the environmental destruction the older generations caused and the irresponsible dismantling of Social Security the older generations caused. Lots of cleaning up that my generation was left with.

dele: "It may or may not be true that millennials' consumer preferences are more oriented toward more versatile and less specialized products than earlier generations.


It is indisputably true that millennials are dealing with higher levels of student debt, higher housing and health care costs, and lower wages relative to the cost of living than earlier generations.


Whether you sell houses, cars, outdoor gear, or anything else, your best bet for encouraging long term growth of consumer spending among younger Americans is to support policies that allow people to be more financially secure younger in life. That means universal health care, less expensive college education, and dense, affordable housing.


The story of reduced consumer spending on luxury products such as outdoor gear is really the story of the demise of the middle class amid skyrocketing income and wealth inequality. Increasingly, people graduating from college today are either extremely well off and bound for high paying careers, or overloaded with debt, stuck in low paying service industry jobs, and likely to have to take on more debt to fund the graduate degrees which are necessary today to obtain the jobs that thirty years ago required only a bachelor's or associate degree.


There remains a small middle between these groups (which I'm fortunate to be part of), but it's shrinking every year."

You sound like my wife and I. I wish more people could see this.

mschi772: "

Now, this thread is FAAAAR from what usually happens when millennials are the topic of discussion, and I am thankful that so many of you have a more enlightened point of view beyond "Harumpf! Kids these days!"
"

Your not stereotyping old people are you?

CityFisher74: "Lots of cleaning up that my generation was left with."

Every generation has to clean something up from before. Some more, some less, but pointing fingers never helped any previous generation, and it won't help us. We'll undoubtedly leave something for future generations to clean up as well.

You're right though: if we, as a generation, appreciate tech too much and don't appreciate nature enough, responsibility for that is shared by older generations that failed to expose us. Yes, some of us were always bound to prefer tech over nature, but how many of us never had a chance to choose because of lack of exposure? How many of our guardians welcomed technology as a tool for making parenting easier?

Can they really be blamed for so enthusiastically embracing technology? So much advancement in so little time! It must have been exciting for them, and such a rate of advancement in so little time was as unprecedented for our parents as being parents at all was. The tech was new, and the parental responsibilities were new. Can you really condemn them for not knowing any better if they made some mistakes?

My entire childhood occurred during that technological explosion. Within my childhood alone I went from commonly encountering corded rotary phones to cordless phones and answering machines to pagers to cell phones and voice mail to email, chat rooms, texts, Facebook.... I saw manual transmissions and carburetors become CVT's and displacement on demand in cars that can park themselves. Newspapers and magazines to 24 hr cable news to internet news. As a kid, I still saw black-and-white TV's that weren't being used nostalgically or ironically, and now I see 4k OLED screens and 7.1 digital sound in people's homes. Music within my childhood: vinyl, cassette, CD, mp3, streaming. Movies? VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, streaming. Shopping? Brick-and-mortar everything, shopping malls, layaway, phone orders, internet shopping, "free 2-day shipping on friggin' everything with Amazon Prime."

My point is that millennials are now old enough to realize how crazy exciting to be a 20-30 something during all of that would have been. And our boomer parents/grandparents should try to imagine being 0-20 during all of that. Maybe that will help reduce how much finger-pointing happens. Maybe not.

What's done is done. Learn from it. Expose your children to more. Expose them to nature. Also expose them to new technologies, though; shunning it won't do them any favors either. And our generation isn't a lost cause; no generation is. If you have friends who spend too much time on their phones or tablets, convince them to join you on a trip. Give them a positive outdoor experience. They might love it or hate it, but it's not too late for them to decide.

murphylakejim: "

mschi772: "

Now, this thread is FAAAAR from what usually happens when millennials are the topic of discussion, and I am thankful that so many of you have a more enlightened point of view beyond "Harumpf! Kids these days!"
"

Your not stereotyping old people are you? "

No, I don't believe I'm stereotyping anyone. It's not a stereotype to recognize that a particular sentiment is commonly expressed during discussions of a particular topic. I'm well aware that many older people don't feel that way, and to express thanks for that isn't stereotyping, it's making sure that I don't take them for granted.

CityFisher74: "Millennial here! Saw an opportunity to comment, so here are my quick thoughts:


1) Does anyone of older generations recall paying more in student loan payments each month than in rent? I didn't think so.


2) We have had technology involved in our lives since roughly middle school. Did we have jobs in 6th grade that paid for these cell phones/computers/internet access? No. So, how did we acquire this technology?...............think about that one. Once it comes to you, think of the word "Enabler".


3) Speaking of enabler, what's easier as a parent: Pack everything up and entertaining the children outside, or handing them an iphone/ipad or turning a movie on?


It makes my blood boil that older generations think we instinctually came out of the womb begging for technology. We had to be given technology to get addicted to, and we needed to be shown the outdoors in order to get into the outdoors.


We also have a lot of responsibility financially with the criminal College Tuition rates these days, the environmental destruction the older generations caused and the irresponsible dismantling of Social Security the older generations caused. Lots of cleaning up that my generation was left with."

I don't pay student loans. Old generations had a mortgage not rent lol.

Job at 16, phone was the first thing I bought.

Very true about us being partially a product of previous generation tho.

I work with millennials every day and my son and his buddies are all of the iGen generation. I don't think either group likes to be categorized and stereotyped, particularly the iGen group of kids. Most of the young people I work with are paying off mountains of student loans and the younger generation, my son included, are wondering how they'll ever pay for college. Us boomers were able to get through undergraduate school for the cost of a single year of college these days. So I'm guessing millennials have more important things to spend their money on than expensive outdoor gear.

I'll say this though, I don't see as much interest in outdoor activities from younger folks than I did/do from the boomer generation. Part of the boomer interest may have stemmed from the environmental movement of the 60s and 70s which was big when I was a kid. Kids have so many distractions today - TV, internet, smart phones, etc. and there is less emphasis on the environment. Too many kids are disconnected from nature and I don't think it's a good thing. I think it's important we help kids appreciate nature and introduce them to the outdoors. Show them how to camp, fish, canoe, hunt.

My son is 17 and has been on 21 BWCA trips with me. We've also backpacked in the Rocky Mountains and northern Minnesota. He caught a 25" walleye when he was 6 and has been filleting his own fish since he was 8. He and I built a quinzee and slept in it when he was 9. He shot his first grouse when he was 10. We regularly go on hikes in the woods. He loves nature and the outdoors. He's got a couple of cousins his age who have gone on several of the BWCA trips and he loves that. He wishes more of his friends showed an interest in doing the same. I hope he remembers and values the lessons he's learned and the experiences we've shared together.

Old people, young people, old farts, young kids. Yep, everyone is different. Not good or bad, just different. It should be that way, I think. It is how we as a society evolve.
Sure, we all generalize people in regard to age. Each and everyone of us to different degrees. Doesn't normally bother me a bit. Even when younger people call me "sir" more often due to my age. I don't like being perceived as old but how can you criticize a young person for being respectful?
The point, however, seems to be clear in that the average age of folks using the BW and the Q has risen dramatically over the past generation. I believe that simple fact represents a major threat to the long term health of the two parks and others. If wild areas are not used they are not valued. If they are not valued they are not protected. If they are not protected they disappear and are never to return.
To that end I think it is important to bring kids and young adults to the outdoors, to share our equipment and knowledge with them and most importantly to share our appreciation of the outdoors with them.

Interesting discussion for sure. I grew up when if you did poorly in school, your parents blamed you. What I saw when my kids were in school was parents blaming the schools. Same attitude in non-school areas but so many baby-boomer parents living through their kids, who are now millennials and gen-xers. Seems at least contributory.

For some unexplained reason - perhaps because we were nearly 40 when we started having kids - their being independent and responsible for themselves was a priority. I'm sure I was influenced by a talk show priest in the 1970s who bemoaned that we use to have children for society and now we seemed to have them for ourselves. Anyway my sons could have moved out and taken care of themselves at 14 or 15. They did both become Eagle Scouts and still like and take part in wilderness and outdoor activities. My 25 year old has camped and hiked in more national parks than I've ever made time to.

To return to the topic we all appreciate good enough gear. It doesn't have to be great or best, just do its job. And lots of gear bought used. And we all kind of like the stuff that has some "experience" and shared experiences. I'd be very sad to not have my first two 1 pint BPA nalgenes on every trip not 18 years old.

I was winter camping this weekend with a few Millennials. There were six couples 1/2 of the group were Millennials.

There was a huge mix of clothing used on this trip. The younger couples brought gear that they use all year round for camping. Down jackets, double up to stay warm. Gore-tex shells that they would use skiing or hiking or whatever else they would do outside.

The older couples used more specialized winter camping gear mostly purchased from Empire Canvas out of Duluth or Steger Mukluks vs normal Sorel type boots.

The younger couples either borrowed tents or made their own.
The older couples bought nicer Snowtrekker tents or made their own.

People are going to buy and use what they can afford.
We all sort of take pride in finding the best deals. We all look for good quality clothing in second hand stores. A few items are purchased used from the annual Winter Camping Symposium gear swap and from REI Scratch and dent sales.

We pretty much all made our own toboggans.

Millenial here.

This is NOT complicated. Anyone looked at the prices in REI??

End of story. Our generation is as active outdoors as any.

Once again it’s all my fault. That’s ok because I have broad shoulders and can carry the load. And All you young whipper snappers get off my lawn!

Grizzlyman: "Anyone looked at the prices in REI?
"

Agreed, and honestly, I can find better products for the same or less elsewhere. The few truly great products REI does have can also be found elsewhere, and why do I bother to know that? Because I've read the numerous stories of REI's spotty treatment of employees and participated in a group job interview at one once. They're quite full of themselves as a company and almost culty feeling (my impression at the time), and on top of that, over the years I've read too many stories of underworked, underpaid, overlooked, or overworked employees. Full of themselves but poor appreciation for employees? Not a company I feel thrilled to support, frankly, but I digress.

It's not just pricing at places like REI. Look at prices in general. It takes a skilled researcher, clever shopper, or committed budget to outfit oneself without breaking the bank these days.

Sidenote: Look up an ENO hammock. Got it? Now look up TNH Outdoors hammock. Betcha a lot of you have heard of ENO; there are a lot of people who don't think twice about buying their product because of how well known and how much is posted about them out there, but every day there are more and more options like TNH making something that one of the "big dawgs" makes that as good or better but for less.
End of Sidenote.

In this regard, it's not that millennials are a special case--it's just that they happen to be the generation that is currently of an age where there are too many expenses and not enough dollars. I'm sure older generations had similar times in their lives. Personally speaking, the only reason I feel I can even pretend to be an exception in this conversation is because I'm not having children.

If I had kids like so many of my peers, the mortgage and the bills would remain of course; my student loans would still be there; I don't have any vices like drinking or smoking that eat money as it is, so it would be my hobbies that would have to be compromised or abandoned to afford a family, and my outdoor equipment is easily my most expensive, least necessary hobby expense. That's all not mentioning that I receive no benefits, vacation time (I'm not even allowed unpaid time off), and don't contribute as much to retirement as I'd like to. I have no doubt that if I had any intentions of having children that I'd be one of the cheapskate Prius-driving, craft brewery visiting millennials that is frustrating Matt Powell of NPD so much.

I think it might be time for NPD to consider that Matt Powell (https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/about-npd/industry-experts/matt-powell/) may no longer be in touch enough with the demographics he is publicly commenting on if he dares to publicly complain that millennials are only using boots to walk from Priuses to craft breweries.

When I was a college student, I could afford less, so bought less. As a young professional I could afford a bit more, so bought a bit more. Now well established I can afford a lot more.

When your young you usually spend what is needed to get bye,as the years go by you start specializing in better gear if you stay in the outdoor scene.
I look at my starting gear and at my age than and now wouldn't use any of it. Upgraded as the years go by. When young improvise and you can get by. You can have fun without getting so tied down with gear type. When young-just go and have and most do.

ozarkpaddler: "

missmolly: "They think the world is unraveling and they want to have fun while they still can. So, rather than hoard acorns, as my generation does, they chase each other around trees, grateful for today. "

I love this, that is some good stuff MM!"

Oz, I work from home and my office window looks out on the woods. I watch the squirrels instead of working (and post at bwca.com!). Then, I tell a story about the squirrels because they've become my world and you mistake me for being wise.


I'm like Chauncey Gardner (Peter Sellers) in the movie, "Being There," who prattled about gardening (all he knew) and people also mistook him for being wise.

Like a lot of Boomers, I had it easy. College was free and the minimum wage allowed me to work twenty hours a week and pay for a car, apartment, and food. I lived on Easy Street.

adam: "..."Sales of outdoor equipment are slipping as millennials drive changes in U.S. consumer habits by favoring clothes and sporting goods that are less specialized and more versatile, analysts say."..."

You do not need specialized clothes to get outdoors if you have drawers full of quick drying, athletic gear. No reason to have hiking clothes if the clothes you wear to the mall are suitable for the trail. The quality and comfort of many of the "Light hikers" available makes specialized hiking boots redundant.

It is not true that outdoor equipment and clothing sales are slipping. It is simply that more of the clothes and equipment available on store shelves are suitable for the outdoors. Just because it has a Lululemon logo rather than Outdoors Research or The North Face logo doesn't mean you won't see it in the wilderness.

If anything, I'd suggest millennials are better prepared for outdoors experiences than most boomers.

OCDave: "You do not need specialized clothes to get outdoors if you have drawers full of quick drying, athletic gear. No reason to have hiking clothes if the clothes you wear to the mall are suitable for the trail. The quality and comfort of many of the "Light hikers" available makes specialized hiking boots redundant. "

Great points actually. I mean, how many people use an Irwin saw instead of a "special" camping saw? How many people are now using something like butthead's Sheffield Footprint Hacking Knife instead of a knife meant for camping or bushcrafting? How many people use a basketball net instead of an anchor?

Millennials aren't responsible for those items being re-purposed and adopted as camping gear, but I've never heard/read anyone complain. Why should we catch flack for re-purposing our other gear for use in the wilderness?

I can actually think of one example with myself where it works the other way. I wear my Astral shoes for everything, not just trails and water.

I seem to be a mix of old and young even though I am old. I have several nice tents, three nice tarps, two kevlar canoes, and a carbon paddle.
On the other hand the rest of my paddles are at least 10-15 years old, my cook kit is from 1978, I use a cheap sven saw and one of the sleeping bags I use I bought in 1972 ( I love that bag). Many of the clothes I use are old running clothes that are 20 years old.
I don't see the article as blaming young folks for not buying more or blaming old people for buying too much. It appears to me it simply says trends have changed to a more practical buyer that the industry has not done a good job of responding to.
With that said I still lend my canoes and tents to any willing young person that will use them just to encourage them to get out canoeing and camping. If they could find half the joy I have had in those endeavors the past many decades I would be happy.

The millennial generation spans a relatively large age range, from college age students to adults who are either beginning to establish themselves in the careers that they've chosen and/or beginning to settle down and establish families. Disposable income and free time are at a premium at those points in one's life. The idea that they are purchasing more versatile rather than more specialized products is to be expected.

At that point in my life, I was heading into the BWCA with a canvas tent that I scavenged from my grandparents, a twenty year old cotton sleeping bag from under the stairs at my folks' place and a ninety pound aluminum canoe with a board for a trolling motor on the back. The idea that my equipment choices spoke to my generation's purchasing preferences is just as absurd as trying to extrapolate millennials' outdoor priorities from their current purchases. In short: they use what is financially available to them and make it work. As we all did at that age.

Should someone check back in with the generation in question 10 years from now, I expect we will see a corresponding change in their outdoor gear preferences. I would also hazard a guess that a generation handling as much debt as theirs is, is savvy enough to realize that if you are pursuing an activity maybe twice per year when you manage to squeeze in a vacation, you are better off foregoing the purchase of equipment you can't afford and have limited storage space for in favor of renting it.

missmolly: "

ozarkpaddler: "

missmolly: "They think the world is unraveling and they want to have fun while they still can. So, rather than hoard acorns, as my generation does, they chase each other around trees, grateful for today. "

I love this, that is some good stuff MM!"

Oz, I work from home and my office window looks out on the woods. I watch the squirrels instead of working (and post at bwca.com!). Then, I tell a story about the squirrels because they've become my world and you mistake me for being wise.
I'm like Chauncey Gardner (Peter Sellers) in the movie, "Being There," who prattled about gardening (all he knew) and people also mistook him for being wise. "

Well, you strengthened my conviction about your "Wisdom" even further with that post. There is much to be learned, appreciated, and written about from watching the squirrels (and other wild critters) out that window. And watching squirrels is one heck of a lot better on the blood pressure and the psyche than most other forms of gathering our acorns!

missmolly: " I'm like Chauncey Gardner (Peter Sellers) in the movie, "Being There," who prattled about gardening (all he knew) and people also mistook him for being wise. "

There's a movie reference I see way too infrequently. The title scene with Deodato's rendition of Also Sprach Zarathustra (2001 theme) is epic. And hey, he was just the vessel, they filled it with what they needed.

Interesting posts. Statistically, the average age of Quetico trippers is somewhere around 50. My 24 year old son and I trip together. We run into very few people his age or younger. Conversely, I am 54 and nearly everyone we cross paths with is my age and older. Point being, I’m not sure you need a lot of outdoor gear if you don’t enjoy outdoor recreation. The trend doesn’t surprise me at all. Forget specialized outdoor gear I would assume the subject age group buys wayyy less outdoor recreational gear across the board.

Not sure how I missed this, my wife and I are millennials. We went to college and were lucky to have parents help pay for it. The low debt entering the work force has allowed us some nicer gear lately. However, we have a lot of hobbies (ice fishing, biking, fishing, hunting, camping, etc) and you can only spend so much even though we'd love the best gear. We own kayaks that we use often around home, not in the cards to buy a Kevlar canoe we'd use once a year. We don't have kids right now so it's been easier for us than other friends.

I grew up in a very small town, the only people my age I know that have been to the BW were in Boy Scouts like myself. No exposure to those things = no knowledge of them or want to experience them. We had very few of the all video games all the time people, everyone I can think of has a job and is trying to pay debt, mortgage, kids, etc.

Lots of other good comments from my fellow generation.

Another thing my wife and I do all the time, identify exactly what we want for gear whether it's an upgrade or something new. Once we spend a ton of time researching online and in person, say we know we want exactly a 54" carbon bent shaft paddle....we'll wait months, even years to find the right deal. We already own paddles that work, but if we find the right deal we'll upgrade.

I've done this on...ice shacks, bikes, fishing rods, kayak, carbon paddle, food barrel, etc. She was fine with her hand-me-down bike but when I found a really good deal on an upgrade (lightly used) I bought it. We'd window shopped and test rode lots of others, checked online at times and knew what we wanted.

Ha, Oz!

Tom, I have seen so many movies that are forgettable. I've only seen "Being There" once and it still makes me smile. Remember the naughty, hilarious scene where Peter Sellers fulfilled Shirley MacLaine? "I like to watch." What a hoot!

missmolly: "Is anyone else thrilled when Adam asks a question? It's like being granted an audience with the great and powerful Oz and it's not easy getting to chat with that big-headed cat. I think if I ever met Adam face to face, I'd be like this guy. "

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

missmolly: "Ha, Oz!


Tom, I have seen so many movies that are forgettable. I've only seen "Being There" once and it still makes me smile. Remember the naughty, hilarious scene where Peter Sellers fulfilled Shirley MacLaine? "I like to watch." What a hoot! "

Chauncey the gardener was wise in a Forrest Gumpian way.

adam: "


So what's your experience with what is happening with Millennials and more rugged outdoor trips like the BWCA?
"

Well I go to the Quetico I don’t see many younger Millenials. Reasons are always multi-faceted but essentially the biggest reason I hear and see is cost. For a first time trip to rent a canoe, gear, and pay the daily camping fees it is expensive plain and simple. I can bring my family to a long weekend at water park—they can play video games, water sports, ride go carts...etc...then stay in a hotel or for roughly 1/2 to a 1/3 of the cost I can bring my family to the Quetico, sleep in a tent, no bathroom, get eaten up by mosquitoes...Now before ya crucify me, my family and I will choose The Quetico first every time, but what if ya never went on a trip before? How do you justify that much money into an activity on the front end that you might not even like? I just don’t think that generation on average got exposed to the outdoors as much and now the costs make it hard for them to jump in. I think many of us with gear we slowly acquired forget or don’t know how costly doing outdoor activities can be for young people to start up.

T

I am excited that Gear people are thinking about...well anything. It's been too many years of me looking at a product, get excited about it, only to find out that it is only made for men in men's sizes & cuts. I have many items I would have loved to buy in a woman build/size that is a men's only product I've had to rig or tailor. Maybe since they are thinking about people as a generation, as a whole...they will finally get that there are people in every size in every gender & unisex options as well. Maybe those neoprene portage booties that are only made in men's sizes...are only seeing half of their potential sales.
I'm a gen x & am glad more & more companies are gearing their stuff to gals. Just look at the hunting section of a store today...I could give a rats patootie about pink camo, but I can buy something off the rack I don't have to cut & shape. That's progress...

missmolly: "Like a lot of Boomers, I had it easy. College was free and the minimum wage allowed me to work twenty hours a week and pay for a car, apartment, and food. I lived on Easy Street."

For me College was kind of free....Music Performance scholly, but I took a whole lot of "real" classes too :) . After college, I never made a cent of that performance education :) . I worked minimum wage jobs , 3 of them while in college, and worked HARD to not have debt. Ended up with about 30k which took me 10 years to pay off.

Last minimum wage job was 6 mos out of school and a punk put a gun to the back of my head and robbed me of money I was making as a pizza delivery guy. Last time EVER , I was in that type of position.

Took a GARBAGE job in a sweatshop doing IT work, but I taught myself skills that were second to none, and quickly moved up those ranks, leaving that job after a year, and then having 4 other jobs in the next 3 years.

Times were different and "easier" in the booming economy of the late 80's and early 90's.

This resonates with me. My son and his wife are 24. They are currently planning a trip to the Q for June with a couple of friends. Two of the group have been to the BWCA before.
None of them can afford more than the gas, meals, and fees. My own group of six will be pulling out when they are pulling in and they will use our gear...canoes, tents, packs, etc. All they bring is food, clothes and sleep systems. Then they will haul it all back with them.
It is a risk of precious gear that has me wondering about my sanity but if they had to buy or rent....forget it. Or if they did not have my son to push and coordinate the adventure...forget it. They all have house payments, vehicles and student debt. They are starting careers and juggling their precious vacation time to be able to go.

I am proud of them. Being a millennial is not easy. We can be good enablers but this will take time which is something product brands do not have.

cyclones30: "Not sure how I missed this, my wife and I are millennials. We went to college and were lucky to have parents help pay for it. The low debt entering the work force has allowed us some nicer gear lately. "

The younger folks I know who are not encumbered with vast amounts of college debt seem to be doing better. Most of the kids I know also had college paid for by their parents, including my two kids. I made that promise to MYSELF the day my kids were born, and my wife and I struggled saving to ensure that commitment was met.

I also don't believe this is just a millennial thing. When I look back at my generation, I have a whole hell of a lot of friends from high school that barely get by. Some of them had everything handed to them by their parents, but the didn't take advantage of those benefits.......Others just didn't make good decisions.

I will tell you this though.......I root for millennials and the next group after millennials, because THEY will be the ones running the country and THEY will be the ones working to pay off our debt, and especially, THEY will be the ones funding part of my retirement ( Social Security and Medicare).

DAMN.......now I need to go out and hire a team of millennials and HELP them be successful :) :) .

REI was mentioned so I just wondered how they were doing?

Myself,I shop occasionally at REI and always liked the friendly service etc.
This is just one company but their sales have been robust and good. Old report but at least thru 2016.
Revnue 2016

So at least 2015 and 2016 were record years. 2017 revenue totals I think come out in March?

mr.barley: "

missmolly: "Is anyone else thrilled when Adam asks a question? It's like being granted an audience with the great and powerful Oz and it's not easy getting to chat with that big-headed cat. I think if I ever met Adam face to face, I'd be like this guy. "

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

LOL! I referenced that line last week in a FB post.
Regarding Millenials, I am puzzled to see them wearing open-toed sandals on portages and rugged trails. Don't they know about twisting ankles and stubbing toes? That's all I've got. They will struggle yet make their mark just like the generation before. In the spirit of Sinatra's, "That's Life"

Grizzlyman: "Millenial here.


This is NOT complicated. Anyone looked at the prices in REI??


End of story. Our generation is as active outdoors as any.
"

Here's an awesome report on outdoor activity participation.

Report

And a nice graph on age participation.

Its just a report so im sure there's flaws somewhere in it, but it seems to support the fact that younger people are more active outdoors than older.

...Which leds me to believe that it's simply the price of specialized outdoor gear. I mentioned REI simply as an example- nothing against REI. All outdoor gear has gotten so ridiculously expensive. You can defend that if you want to, but I believe the strib article bears that out - sales are down during the best economy we've had in 10 yrs.

The interesting thing is overpriced gear is a luxury item- and luxury item sales flat out disappear during recessions. That whole market better be thinking about what is going to happen in the next year or two if the economy recedes. There will be a lot of $200 backpack companies that will be going out of business.

mr.barley: "

missmolly: "Is anyone else thrilled when Adam asks a question? It's like being granted an audience with the great and powerful Oz and it's not easy getting to chat with that big-headed cat. I think if I ever met Adam face to face, I'd be like this guy. "

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

Hey, the man behind the curtain has a big bag of tricks! Didn't ya watch the end of the movie?

FullGo: "When I was a college student, I could afford less, so bought less. As a young professional I could afford a bit more, so bought a bit more. Now well established I can afford a lot more."

+1

Without reading most of the posts above because I came into this late and don't have time to read it all...

As a millennial (born in 95) and a current college student, I'll say that I'm definitely a small percent of people I know my age that enjoy real backcountry trips. A hardcore trip to a lot of people I know is barely getting off a trail that's still in cell-phone range. Everyone cringes when I say I did a 9 day solo last year with no cell phone reception. They can't imagine doing things like that.

To be fair, I do go to UW-Madison where the demographic may be less outdoor-inclined than other small colleges.

As a Millennial who brings groups of other Millennials to the BWCA every year, most of them think it's an awesome trip and are perfectly okay without cell reception for the week. Many of them have never done anything like it, and most of them ask to be invited back.

That said, I simply can't afford the specialized gear I see some of the older trippers using. I buy used items, knockoffs, old gear, homemade items, and generally make due. I try to make an upgrade or two every year. When I started coming to the BWCA, we bought a 50 year old dented Alumacraft that weighed 85lbs on craigslist for $300. It was, in our minds, an expensive purchase, but it made our trips possible. Buying was cheaper than renting in the long term. I had people telling me to get a kevlar any time they realized how heavy our canoe was. As if it was that simple of a decision.

One year I bought a used canoe pack. Another, I replaced a cook kit. I replaced a bulky homemade under-quilt with a lightweight knockoff on a cyber Monday deal. It took a while, but I eventually found an old ultralight aluminum in need of repairs for a price we could afford if we sold our heavyweight.

REI sells a collapsible dinner dish with a cutting board bottom for close to $20. We bought a two pack of dog bowls for $5 instead. REI sells a rainfly for $75. I bought a knockoff for $12 on ebay and reinforced the cheap stitching. REI sells a hammock bug-net for $50. I made one out of a sheer curtain I bought for $2. REI sells fast drying hiking pants for $50-100. I have a $10 pair of workout pants that do the same job. Camping cookpot? $60. Enamel bean pot? $15. The list goes on.

It would be great to buy the specialized gear. It is undoubtedly better. But using the cheap solutions lets us afford to take time off work and still pay the bills. It REALLY isn't that we are too attached to our devices to enjoy the outdoors, it's just that we aren't buying the "right" gear to do so, and we only rarely buy things new.

Side note: I don't think I've ever heard the term "Millennial" used in a positive light. Maybe that's why so many of us hate being labelled as a generation.

I am sorry to read that so many seem to think that millennials are just a bunch of lazy people who would rather sit on the couch on some piece of technology then go to work or outside. I am happy how ever to report that some may be to quick to judge. I am a millennial and I work hard. I am 20 and about to buy a house because since I've been old enough to work I have and have saved my money instead of going out and spending it. All of my friends have worked hard too. Most of them have recieved scholarships for top schools because they worked hard to get them. They like me also pay for their own tution and work while in school. Also in june a group of 6 millennials and 3 linksters are taking a trip to the boundary waters. I've wanted to go since I was 14 and heard about it but I have been to busy working to save for my future to be able to go.

Kmross97: "I am sorry to read that so many seem to think that millennials are just a bunch of lazy people who would rather sit on the couch on some piece of technology then go to work or outside. I am happy how ever to report that some may be to quick to judge. I am a millennial and I work hard. I am 20 and about to buy a house because since I've been old enough to work I have and have saved my money instead of going out and spending it. All of my friends have worked hard too. Most of them have recieved scholarships for top schools because they worked hard to get them. They like me also pay for their own tution and work while in school. Also in june a group of 6 millennials and 3 linksters are taking a trip to the boundary waters. I've wanted to go since I was 14 and heard about it but I have been to busy working to save for my future to be able to go."

A house at age 20? Wow! Good for you. And saving for your down payment while in college makes it even more impressive.

Just one little question: Who exactly are these "so many" who think Millennials are "just just a bunch of lazy people who would rather sit on the couch on some piece of technology then go to work or outside"? I did a page search for "couch" and you're the first to use it. I also did a page search for "lazy" and found it applied to "tropes" and "story" and "RVers," but never Millennials.

I think CityFisher74 makes a valid point that "Millennials" didn't develop this rap on their own; both Boomers and Gen Xer's have contributed to generational behaviors and a growing sense of entitlement (everyone gets a trophy!).

For what it's worth, I remember reading an article years ago that contended Gen X (of which I am a member) would be the first generation that would not achieve a higher standard of living than their parent's, and based on what I'm reading, Millennials will be earning less than their parents as well. Some of that might be from getting college degrees that don't actually provide workplace skills, but the fundamental changes in our economy would seem to suggest that Millennials will not have the disposable income that previous generations had for activities such as this. I heard a stat recently that almost 30% of Millennials do not have the financial resources to live on their own, hence they live on the couch in mom and dad's basement. Granted, that is not the entire generation, but sadly an increasing number of people in this generation will fact struggles that many of us have not.

thlipsis29: I heard a stat recently that almost 30% of Millennials do not have the financial resources to live on their own, hence they live on the couch in mom and dad's basement. Granted, that is not the entire generation, but sadly an increasing number of people in this generation will fact struggles that many of us have not. "

I'm convinced that the only reason I was able to afford to move out was because I joined the Marine Corps. I had my entire enlistment to save up without rent, medical, clothing, or food being mandatory costs. If I didn't want to buy groceries, I had the mess hall. My uniforms (covered by my clothing allowance) meant I didn't wear out my civilian clothes. My barracks room might not have been nice, but it was clean, livable, and free. I used my income to pay off a car that I still own, so I got out without a car payment. Most importantly, I don't have a student loan. I was taught a marketable skill while on active duty, allowing me to get a "real" job without a degree. I can use my GI bill to finish my degree and not take out a loan to do it.

Compared to my spouse, who struggled on a tight budget, working full time with rent, a car lease, and a student loan we are still paying off. I married into debt, but I'm not sure we could afford a house payment if we had both been in the same boat. Instead, we're stable, making positive progress, and I really think I have the military to thank for it.

@ Fyresparxx: Way to go! That's what a lot of old-timers on this site did too, at one point. The burden of carrying wet, heavy canvas tents, heavy canoes and non-tech clothing used to be the norm. The desire to be in the great outdoors is not to be underestimated.

BlueSkiesWI: "Without reading most of the posts above because I came into this late and don't have time to read it all...


As a millennial (born in 95) and a current college student, I'll say that I'm definitely a small percent of people I know my age that enjoy real backcountry trips. A hardcore trip to a lot of people I know is barely getting off a trail that's still in cell-phone range. Everyone cringes when I say I did a 9 day solo last year with no cell phone reception. They can't imagine doing things like that.


To be fair, I do go to UW-Madison where the demographic may be less outdoor-inclined than other small colleges."

Fellow Millennial here (born 1992).

I think BlueSkiesWI hit the nail on the head here.

I'm not going to kid myself; most of my friends and acquaintances that I grew up with have no interest in a BWCA trip. There are a select few that are open to the idea, however, once the price of outfitting is discussed the trip idea fizzles.

mjmkjun: "@ Fyresparxx: Way to go! That's what a lot of old-timers on this site did too, at one point. The burden of carrying wet, heavy canvas tents, heavy canoes and non-tech clothing used to be the norm. The desire to be in the great outdoors is not to be underestimated. "

Just go and enjoy maybe we are in a age we always have to have specialized gear to do everything has been over emphasized.

Pinetree: "

mjmkjun: "@ Fyresparxx: Way to go! That's what a lot of old-timers on this site did too, at one point. The burden of carrying wet, heavy canvas tents, heavy canoes and non-tech clothing used to be the norm. The desire to be in the great outdoors is not to be underestimated. "

Just go and enjoy maybe we are in a age we always have to have specialized gear to do everything has been over emphasized."

Huxley sort of predicted specialized gear in "Brave, New World," where consumption was expected.

adam: "
At the recent national gear show in Denver, Millennials were a focus and their buying habits.

"Sales of outdoor equipment are slipping as millennials drive changes in U.S. consumer habits by favoring clothes and sporting goods that are less specialized and more versatile, analysts say."

"Millennials — sometimes defined as people born between 1982 and 2004 — are less likely than the previous generation to demand outdoor gear that stands up to extreme conditions, said Matt Powell, NPD’s senior adviser for the sports industry. He used boots as an example."

Star Trib. Article
"

So just speaking from my perspective as a "Millennial" I personally have the exact opposite problem with the current market of outdoor products. In my experience products from mainstream manufacturers are generally made to be sold and not so much to be used. Even products marketed as being "high end" or intended for use by professionals have to be scrutinized carefully to determine whether they are really made for that trip to the craft brewery, or the climb up Everest they're marketed for.

Maybe the fact that millennials have access to more knowledge and reviews simply means we're not as easily fooled by marketing hype as we become more savvy about researching products before we buy them? There has also been a very large shift to purchasing from more cottage industry manufacturers which is not represented here. That wouldn't happen unless there's something missing from the mainstream market. I'm a millennial- I'm not poor, and not cheap, but I won't throw money at something just because marketing tells me it's what I need.

I had a seriously difficult time simply finding a mainstream retailer that would even stock the boots I actually NEED for my upcoming Denali climb in my size (12 by the way- not all that uncommon). Even the internet was no help. Backountry.com, REI, Campmor, Moosejaw- no luck. I ended up having to go to a small business out on the west coast that stocked the boots because they order them in from Italy where they're made.

How about a sleeping bag? Mainstream companies make -40 bags that are too heavy, use materials that are really unnecessarily expensive and technical, and cost upwards of $1000. My solution- I made my own. It's lighter, just was warm, just as tough, and cost me about $250 to make.

I could go on and on about how mainstream outdoor product manufacturers have generally been a disappointment for me (millennial or not), but I wanted to leave some room for the second part:

adam: "
So what's your experience with what is happening with Millennials and more rugged outdoor trips like the BWCA?
"

My experience is mixed in this aspect. I see a great deal more interest in things like rock climbing, backpacking, and biking, but I have seen that there seems to be less interest in appreciating wilderness for its intrinsic value which I find disheartening. I think with most of the other millennials that I talk to who I would say "don't get it" it's more of a matter of ignorance, or lack of exposure.

I think what is there of a generational difference has more to do with our generation growing up in a more urban setting and not having as much exposure to such outdoor pursuits growing up.

The people of the greatest generation are a tough act to follow. I wonder what the Civil War generation was like. Many were thinned in the war. The survivors were wounded, emotionally hurt and so were their widows, families and many others. There must have been a lot of bitterness too. Half the country hated the other half. Some people got rich others got free.

Savage Voyageur: "Once again it’s all my fault. That’s ok because I have broad shoulders and can carry the load. And All you young whipper snappers get off my lawn!"

Way to take one for the team, SV!

Some of the problem I see is getting people started and part of that problem is access close to home they can do this. It is getting harder in many areas of the country to do that.

Fyresparxx: "Side note: I don't think I've ever heard the term "Millennial" used in a positive light. Maybe that's why so many of us hate being labelled as a generation. "

Other than the schlocky "Greatest Generation" materials (a term applied later, as generationalism is a postwar concept born out of the only truly time-bounded cohort our country has seen, the baby boom), no generational label is ever used in a positive light. They're used to reduce, essentialize, marginalize, stereotype, and market. I'm "Gen X" which always is used to imply that we're directionless, absent, broody, searching for meaning, etc. We're preceded by "Boomers", a term used to tie all sorts of notions of entitlement, the generation that reshaped America and did a crappy job with marriages and child-raising. Before them is the "silent generation", so-called because nobody gives a crap about their generation's needs, stuck between the so-called "Greatest generation" and the "boomers". So yeah, "millennials" with their so-called entitlement, digital addiction, lack of drive, etc., continue a long tradition of generationalism being used to disparage younger people. I'm eager to see what my daughter's generation, the post-millennials, get accused of collectively being before they have a chance to actually do anything.

By the by, Kurt Cobain really was pretty great, and I know that opinion makes me a "true" gen-Xer.

“Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it, and wiser than the one that comes after it.”

-George Orwell

Kurt Cobain was pretty great. Nevermind breathed life back into rock and roll when it was released and remains one of my favorite albums.

With all due respect. i think I need a filter or taller boots for some of the posts here. Just sayn.

I will say the millennials girls and women there is lot more doing outdoor activities than in the past in my opinion. Seeing it canoeing,hunting,cross country skiing etc.

I would say overall the research results are valid. It is of course a generalization by nature, no pun intended. It is an overall view of the marketplace and gear buying habits for an age group. Not meant as a slam, just a market analysis. I didn't see anything said that inferred millennials are doing less outdoor activities, they are using a different kind of gear. Less specialized. And overall gear sales are slipping. Many factors have been cited by the millennials themselves. They analyze the market so they can adapt to the current trends. And most likely by the time they catch up it will have changed again. What comes after millenials, is that GenX. I can't keep track.

scat: "I didn't see anything said that inferred millennials are doing less outdoor activities"

“The hardest, the most extreme condition some of these boots are going to have is walking from the Prius to the craft brewery." --Matt Powell of NPD from the article in the OP.

Great topic!

I, for one, have great faith in Millenials. (And all generations for that matter.)

The topic of expense is very valid and it does often feel to me, even as a first year Gen-X'er (born 1965), to be out of control. I love the new lightweight tech gear when using it but can't believe the cost on most of it. I've managed to build up a nice set of gear but it took me many years and I have never paid retail for anything. Given that, I don't know how we could expect Millenials who are earlier in their earning years and often paying down crazy student loans to be able to afford that gear.

I also think back to what gear we were using when I was that age. By today's standards it was heavy and bulky but we were happy enough to use it. That is surely what I would be going with now if I was younger and is what I mentor young people to do.

Finally, my experience is that Millenials are just as interested in outdoor high adventure as any other generation. They just need the opportunity to be introduced to it. My love for the outdoors started with my Grandfather and Scouting getting me out on adventures. I am a Scouter today in large part to be able to introduce young people to the outdoors and develop leadership skills. I've been involved with taking a lot of young people to the BWCA, Philmont, the Florida keys, the Adirondaks, parts of the AT, etc. and I can only think of a few that didn't want to go on another high adventure trip. Many of them have.

Pinetree: "I will say the millennials girls and women there is lot more doing outdoor activities than in the past in my opinion. Seeing it canoeing,hunting,cross country skiing etc."

Truth!

This whole article is stupid. Gear industry essentially blaming millenials for slumping sales.

Imagine what wouldve happened to blockbuster if they had blamed slumping sales on consumer preference for Netflix...

Or taxi cabs blaming consumers for their preference of Uber...

Or retailers for consumer's preference for amazon...

Or the music industry for our preference of iTunes...

The problem with the gear industry is that there is too much competition going after a limited market. Add to that, a lot of gear and clothing is hyped-up s**t. You don't need 50 different types of rain gear--just quality stuff that works. I would add that a LOT of gear and outdoor clothing is WAY over-priced.

the last post says a lot. Get what you need, improvise and use what you have. Some would rather spend more time and money shopping than tripping. Not hard to do...so many options. Now....back to Market Analysis and Bean Counting 101. Spend Mo Money you dam milleniumites! Gear snobs are sorely needed! :0 oth

To answer the OP

adam: "
So what's your experience with what is happening with Millennials and more rugged outdoor trips like the BWCA?
"

I think there is a trend towards loss of "true presence"- the beauty of being present in a moment, even as it slips away. There is an inherent pressure becoming engrained to get the instagram, the selfie, the cool POV video shot so your friends can all see what you saw. Not artful photography, but social photography- a low-res timeline blip that is lucky to garner a pause- then scrolled past to never be looked at again. The connected social world misconstrues horribly the realities of real things and real life- and while grooming a rugged outdoorsy newsfeed it is easy to miss what you are experiencing in the rugged outdoors. The social connectedness makes it so much harder to be truly present and to savor that experience as it happens- without worry as to how many friends will see the post. I'm as guilty as most, but have made a point this past year to make a priority of truly being present.

For perspective, I arrived in '82 and bridge defined generations as a 'Xennial': growing up with the analog ways of GenX, but producing and adopting the digital technology that defines Millenials.

keth0601: " In my experience products from mainstream manufacturers are generally made to be sold and not so much to be used..... ...mainstream outdoor product manufacturers have generally been a disappointment for me (millennial or not), but I wanted to leave some room for the second part:"

keth speaks a lot of truth above. I agree completely with a general suspicion of the quality of fashionable, marketed gear in favor of high-performance cottage or DIY or used gear. But with that thinking we are probably in the minority.

BlueSkiesWI: "Without reading most of the posts above because I came into this late and don't have time to read it all...


As a millennial (born in 95) and a current college student, I'll say that I'm definitely a small percent of people I know my age that enjoy real backcountry trips. A hardcore trip to a lot of people I know is barely getting off a trail that's still in cell-phone range. Everyone cringes when I say I did a 9 day solo last year with no cell phone reception. They can't imagine doing things like that.


To be fair, I do go to UW-Madison where the demographic may be less outdoor-inclined than other small colleges."

UW-Madison - what happened to the Wisconsin Hoofers? They had a lot of great trips 40-50 years ago that were very popular. The guy who started Rutabaga came out of the Hoofers.

To answer the other part of this as far as gear goes, I was born in 1970, no one bought high end gear when I was a kid...we put our feet in bread bags with a rubber band around it to hold it up to make our boots waterproof...which BTW didn’t work most of the time the bags broke and your feet got soaked. Then when I started going to the BWCAW I borrowed gear, wore stuff I already had, in the summer just wore sandals. For hunting I wore a cheap orange vest from Walmart and my old football cleats...I didn’t start buying more and better gear until I got older, had more money, knew what I wanted...even now though I don’t think I’ve ever paid retail price for anything. I know what I want and am willing to wait for a deal as it is all overpriced. How is that different than what they are saying about Millenials? There is a lot more gear available than I can ever remember, it is funny to me that a manufacturer is blaming a generation for their lower sales, I don’t think any generation ever paid top dollar for starter outdoor gear.

I am also happy the Millenials came along so my Gen X is no longer the worst generation...lol...every Generation thinks the one ahead is old—set in their ways and not as smart and the one behind is lazier and entitled...it’s been like this forever. Don’t fall for it on either end. For my part I have 8 Millenials that work for me and only one fits the stereotype—-which tells me the stereotype is wrong.

T

Muddyfeet, your post is one of the best I've ever read here, but the phenomenon of craving a "like" instead of simply loving a moment isn't limited to Millennials. I know a woman in her seventies who takes poor quality photos, posts them to Facebook, and then wants me to co-celebrate when she gets one or two "likes." Those "likes" have become her crack and she just wants to reach the next spot where she can get the next photo to trigger the next "like."

When it comes to "likes" rather than loving the moment, I'm like the guy in the blue sweater.

2 thoughts...
1. Aside from the Huxley reference, did I miss discussion of saturation? Isnt the purpose of market research to continue manufacturers denial of market saturation? Gear sells less, when we or someone we know owns it already.
2. As an '84 model, I am a mil. but only presume to speak for myself. I want to try all the gear. But I dont want to buy all the gear. The later wins. Its simple.

(I grinned at the breadbag socks. I tried that one whole rabbit season because I was growing too fast for good boots to keep the snow out. I didnt even know what a craft brewery was then, but I still chase my beagles while they chase Bugs.)

I'm a Boomer and I guess my kids are millennials. I love the outdoors. They love the outdoors. Times have changed. School, costs, housing, etc, etc.
I accumulated stuff to do my outdoor enjoyment, the changes have moved them to choose to accumulate TIME to enjoy their outdoor passions. Hard to sell time......

I've been bringing my millenial kids to the BWCA since they were in kindergarten. When they ask their friends if they want to give it a try, it's about 50/50 between those who are nervous with the idea of not having a cell phone and those who would LOVE their parents not being able to contact them. :)

Overall, with more distractions and easy entertainment options it's only natural that fewer would see the benefits of the sweat-equity you gain from even a short canoe-country trip. I see that even in the Boomers and Gen-Xers so it's not just a millennial thing.

Mesaba

Technically I'm in the club, born 1983, but I have to say I've long had a passion for the very best gear. Much of my love for quality gear comes from an appreciation for craftsmanship and that appreciation comes from being a bit of a perfectionist craftsman myself. I have worked in medical device design and prototyping for 13 years, this is a realm where often .001" can make of brake the functionality of a device, so I have an eye for well made things. I happen to work in a company that is largely composed of these dastardly millennials, other than the President, CFO, a couple of VP's and a senior engineer I'm the oldest here, probably 32 people younger than me out of 40. So I know these kids and I know them well. First things first most of them are incredibly inept at producing anything physical, they simple suck at the art of "making".

I think when you have no clue how stuff gets made you tend to be less interested in paying big bucks for something well constructed, you simply cant justify the price when you lack the knowledge to understand why it cost more.

When I see a $300 eVent or Gortex rain jacket I don't see an overpriced garment, I see a jacket made of fabric that took millions upon millions of R&D dollars to develop. I see high quality waterproof zippers that don't grow on trees. I see yards upon yards of fully bonded seam tape and can't help but think to myself what an absolute B***** that must have been to do correctly, even if it was done in a sweat shop overseas, it still took skills.

Now I'd say its a multi faceted issue for sure, but I truly believe that is a huge part of it.

Look at all these old people speculating at the lives and behavior of younger people. Your speculation doesn't apply to me! But you're all still old and crotchety

Much of it is us Old people didn't take the time to take a kid fishing or camping. Also many places do not have primitive camping close by for them.

Boomer here.

As I entered my 20's I had lots of things to distract and deter me from getting out (college, social things, females) but the basic interest established in childhood never went away. Everyone was short of money when I was in college, but I don't recall anyone saying we can't do this without "the best" or "newest" gear. We just used what we could scrape together and made the best of it.

Accepting the idea that gear is the precursor to a good outdoor experience is a needless obstacle to participation. An obstacle for anyone, whatever their age.

With all the different gear choices and used gear available everywhere I don't think gear should be an issue for anyone who really wants to get out there and try it. Gear can be accumulated along with experience.

Fizics: "Look at all these old people speculating at the lives and behavior of younger people. Your speculation doesn't apply to me! But you're all still old and crotchety"

Speaking of crotchety, I'm guessing you wile away your Saturdays yelling at seniors who approach your lawn, as in: "Yeah, I've got my eyes on your grandma. I'm watching your walker. I better not see a hair from those tennis balls on my lawn!