My daughter and number one partner in crime is staring down the barrel of her sweet sixteen. Her mom and I are divorced but work very well together (far better than we did pre-divorce :)) and have agreed to get her a vehicle. She's confident I'll make the best decision and has deferred to my judgment regarding what kind. I will of course not choose anything she's uncomfortable with. The criteria: $10k max, reasonably safe and not super easy to roll, AWD or 4WD, easy rack installation, tough enough for forest service and river roads, under 100k miles and no more than two owners. I'm leaning toward RAV4 or Subaru Forester and would love opinions on those, but I also welcome input on alternatives that meet the aforementioned criteria.

RAV4: I've read there's a piston issue in ~08 models that causes super excessive oil consumption, as in a quart every 1k miles. Holy schnikeys! I also found that Toyota finally stepped up to the plate and offered the necessary repair at no owner cost but haven't dug into the deets. Anything else I should know good or bad?

Forester: The dreaded, infamous head gasket issue was supposedly resolved in 2005 but I've read that may or may not be true. Thoughts on that? Anything else good or bad? I really like Subarus a lot and think the Forester has a lot to offer for someone like my daughter.

I realize every brand has endemic issues and a used rig is very much a roll of the dice. Just don't want to wade into a ****storm and subject us all three to a bunch of unnecessary stress.

I’ve owned a 2000 RAV4, which I drove until it was totaled by someone that rear ended me, and I currently own 2015 Forester. I never had any problems with either. My Forester gets better gas mileage and is roomier, but both models have changed quite a bit over the years.

How about a Subaru Outback.
She could probably sleep in the back, seems they are a little longer than the Forester.

I had a hard time following the criteria at first but I shut my brain off and did some dream shopping.....

volvo

My wife is on her 3rd Subaru, one outback, a Forester and her currant one a Crosstrek. All were solid vehicles. When the kids turned 16 both had jobs already. They were required to pay for half the cost of the vehicle they wanted. Our son started with a 1971 Ford Bronco. Our daughter it was a 1984 Toyota 4x4 pickup. Both were great vehicles. We have had numerous Toyota pickups and a couple 4 Runners. I have never had a rav4 but it sounds like a good vehicle. I don't think you would go wrong with either of those choices.

I think a kevlar Wenonah Wilderness should do the trick.

DeuceCoop: "...The criteria: $10k max, reasonably safe and not super easy to roll, AWD or 4WD, easy rack installation, tough enough for forest service and river roads, under 100k miles and no more than two owners. I'm leaning toward RAV4 or Subaru Forester and would love opinions on those, ..."

Buy the newest model that fits your criteria even if you need to compromise on miles. Quality and safety in automobiles continues to improve every year. Optional safety equipment becomes standard one year to the next. Non-wear items (I am thinking airbags) are less degraded in the newer model year. Paint fades, bodies rust.

Either of these cars can be reasonably expected to run for 200,000 miles with appropriate maintenance. With a huge drop in perceived value after the odometer turns 100,000, you could likely get a couple years newer vehicle with 100-110,000 miles for the price of an older car with 85-95,000 miles.

I have been out of the car business for a while but expect the above still holds true.

Good Luck

Captn Tony: "I think a kevlar Wenonah Wilderness should do the trick."

Ha. She’d have to trade in her Dagger Prophet. Don’t see that happening!

LindenTree3: "How about a Subaru Outback.
She could probably sleep in the back, seems they are a little longer than the Forester."

Definitely like the Outbacks but the ones I’ve seen have been budget busters.

Subarus have excellent safety ratings.

Assuming used, my son shopped internet and came up with a 05 corolla with 75,000 miles for $2800. He paid the $120 or 150 to a local mechanic to do a thorough inspection. Took some work but great deal.

I love my '07 RAV 4 - probably will drive it to 250,000-300,000. Still get 27 mpg and its the V6.

After selling my red Ranger I was looking at RAV's and Subaru's. Instead bought a 2006 Ford Freestyle AWD, CVCT trans, and 3L V6. Ran and handled very well great in winter. Cheaper, just as reliable, less expensive to fix, 25 MPG average, hauled canoes just fine.
Lot's of folks would never consider it in the same class but I did. 180000 miles when I sold it, without any major repairs, just worn part replacements.

butthead

A couple years ago we were looking for a car with similar requirements for our daughter. $10,000, under 100,000 miles, reliable. And able to carry a kayak. Oh, and something that didn't look too much like old peoples family car (she was 22). We could not find any Subaru s less than 100,000 miles at that price. We stopped looking because she moved out east and doesn't need a car now (her kayak is stored in our garage for now). Hope you find something that works for you.

As a car guy who as actually done some personal shopping for used cars for others, I know not to presume to just tell you what you should get, but in the interest of brainstorming for your sake, I'm surprised Honda Element isn't mentioned yet.

I do a fair amount of automotive journalism and I interviewed a high mucky muck at Porsche once who conceded that all cars made today are well made.

"It didn't use to be that way," he said, "but it is now."

He also volunteered that Porsches weren't worth their asking price, but buyers were willing to pay more for the cachet.

Honda CR-V.

Good stable handling, safety record, and decent city/highway mileage. Overall it's a very safe car to drive.

Either RAV or Forester are good generally reliable vehicles. Forester has also had the piston/oil use issue of late. Forester might be sightly more crash worthy and have better visibility (the best of any vehicle I've driven). The Subaru AWD system is more advanced, (the RAV and the CRV are more like front wheel drive with rear assist). The RAV will remain "tighter" as she ages, Subaru's tend to develop whispers around doors and windows. Either choice is a great vehicle. In northern Minnesota a used Forester comes at a premium, probably find a much better deal on a RAV. I've driven both vehicles a fair amount. I love the visibility of the Forester. The RAV has a great controlled tight feeling ride/drive.

Find the best deal and pay a mechanic to check it out.

I just gave my daughter my wife's 2012 Camry and got my wife an Avalon. The blue book on the Camry was 9K.

I grew up driving Ford trucks.......after some reliability issues I purchased a Toyota 4 wheel drive and have never looked back. Now I only purchase Toyota and never have problems.

Contrast that with my Mercedes Benz diesel work van which costs considerable for maintenance, parts etc. if you can find a dealer. I love the van but it's expensive.

From the post-crash or MVA side of things; the Subaru's seem to have less passenger compartment intrusion. *** could have just been the wrecks I've been to though.***

Our grandson is getting our Forester(2009) when he is 16. This means that he is already taking stick shift lessons on our camp road in it. Its that or buy his own car.

Its got 120,000 miles on it so by the time he gets it it ought to have 140,000 miles. Our last Forester(20001) lasted to 220,000 miles.

Neither had any engine problems

We tried a toyota in the late eighties. We are now on our seventh one and love them! Our camry hybrid gets 45mpg driving around sebring FL, our repair bills have been very minimal over the last 28 years! Thank you, Toyota! Marc

We tried a toyota in the late eighties. We are now on our seventh one and love them! Our camry hybrid gets 45mpg driving around sebring FL, our repair bills have been very minimal over the last 28 years! Thank you, Toyota! Marc

We looked at both of those vehicles a couple of years ago and ended up buying a Honda CRV. It has been very reliable and we would absolutely buy another. We're in a similar boat with a new driver soon and the CRV is our top candidate due to our good experience.

The only issue we have had is the AC went out last year. Turns out this is a known issue and Honda paid for most of the repair even though it was well out of warranty. (Of course it had to go out when we were on vacation in 93 degree summer heat!)

All three vehicles are very good and the differences are small. In our area it seems like the CRV's have the best resale value followed by the RAV4.

Someone else mentioned the Honda Element. Those are nice too, but around here they have crazy resale value. You'll pay less for any of the other three in similar condition.

I think this is exactly what you are looking for.

2 cents worth. I don't know what you have available to search from but my interest perked up when you mentioned Subaru. My grand-daughter just got her license and inherited her mom's Cross-trek (mom got a new one and a stick at that). She has taken to it very well and it has excellent safety ratings.

Dude, get an F150.

Big, safe, can go anywhere. Cheap parts. There’s millions of them. Find a good deal.

I’ve owned Subaru’s. They’re great. But, not enough clearance to be going down forest roads in my opinion.

MrBadExample: "Dude, get an F150.


Big, safe, can go anywhere. Cheap parts. There’s millions of them. Find a good deal.


I’ve owned Subaru’s. They’re great. But, not enough clearance to be going down forest roads in my opinion.
"

One unstated reason to agree. limiting the number of passengers!

butthead

butthead: "

MrBadExample: "Dude, get an F150.



Big, safe, can go anywhere. Cheap parts. There’s millions of them. Find a good deal.



I’ve owned Subaru’s. They’re great. But, not enough clearance to be going down forest roads in my opinion.
"

One unstated reason to agree. limiting the number of passengers!


butthead"

Passenger numbers are not limited if you consider the truck bed! Maybe girls don't automatically think this this way, but I'm sure a group of teenage boys probably do.

MrBadExample: "Dude, get an F150.


Big, safe, can go anywhere. Cheap parts. There’s millions of them. Find a good deal.


I’ve owned Subaru’s. They’re great. But, not enough clearance to be going down forest roads in my opinion.
"

The Forester runs through twitch roads just fine.. We have had the brush clean the bottom.. We stop when there is a possibility that there are no future turn arounds I think the Outback is too low...

but in any case do you want to give your kid a vehicle that can go anywhere? Hmm you better know the sneak to places.. Our kids stayed in the same town they grew up in. Now they use that knowledge to their advantage now that they have teens.. They know EXACTLY where kids sneak to.

PaddlinMadeline: " I think this is exactly what you are looking for. "

She would definitely be fine with that! Thanks everyone for some very good input. It's much appreciated.

If you could find a Honda Element. We had 4WD, but the front WD would have been fine and better gas mileage. Had it for 7 years, no issues. Wish we still had it. We owned a 2004 from '04-'11, 7 years. We regret every day that we traded it in. Ours was "Real time 4WD," which meant, unlike AWD, it would convert to 4WD with any "Slippage" that it sensed. We live at the end of a bad gravel road on a farm. Never got the Element stuck, as I recall, driving on a lot of snow, ice, mud, and gravel bars.

The Element was not as "Economical" as most Honda's. With the 4WD model, we probably got 22mpg most of the time. Driving flat land, 50mph you could stretch it to 24-25mpg. In extreme winds out west with boats on the roof we once got about 16-17mpg. One of my only complaints was that the engine sometimes felt a bit under powered?

The seats, floorboards, and rear were rubberized and very easy to clean. I thought that seat material was PERFECT? Here it is, 10 years later and I STILL haven't seen another vehicle with a comparable fabric and can't figure out why? it was comfortable, easy to clean, and difficult to stain. Perfect interior for dogs, paddling, and throwing crap in at the farm. My next door neighbor once sold a miniature donkey to an older couple who picked it up in their Honda Element. I would venture to say, that was not the only instance someone pressed the Element into a livestock hauler?

As for sleeping in the Element, we probably spent 100 nights or more in it over the 7 years we had it? It was a bit tight for two, perfect for one. If you're much taller than me (6'1") it may be a little tight, but I was always comfortable. You could either sleep with rear seats down and put a sleeping pad on them (or not) for a little more room, or with seats up and out of the way. I'll show a few pics of both.

After we traded our Element in at a local dealer, they sold it to a mom & pop car lot about a year or two later. We knew it was ours, as they left two of the Thule "Feet" on it and we knew every little dent and scratch. For a year or so it sat on that lot and we would go by and look at it and I'd try to talk my wife into letting me buy it back. It finally went away, and now she too wishes we had bought it back!

Oh, BTW, as for the "Rack spread." it was a little smaller than my liking, and couldn't really be moved further back due to the moon roof. That said, I had 17 and 18' canoes on the roof with a Thule rack and NEVER had an issue until we had an accident. One of the welds tore after my wife hit a tree with our canoe rack and tore the front rack off. That was one of the reasons we thought about selling it. We bought one of those Yakima bars through foam contraptions that Oak Orchard sells. We could have just bolted through the roof, probably with better results?

Oh, and the moon roof was difficult to mess with, and we both disliked it. Unfortunately, it came with the 4WD version and so we didn't have a choice. That said, I would be happy with the front wheel drive model too, as the traction just in FWD was great most of the time.

Had I been given the reigns on "Tweaking" the design I have no doubt they'd still be on the market; I would have designed the "Perfect" paddling vehicle with a few minor changes. An economical diesel engine, a foot or so more length, more rack spread, and a bit of a softening of the "Box" shape would have made for the perfect paddler, hiker, hunter, dog owner, etc vehicle! Here are a few pics for illustration

Thanks Terry! I think you're the second person to recommend an Element and it does appear to meet the criteria. I've added it to the list. She'd LOVE this one, but I'm not sure how well I'd trust the after market mods. Super cool, but if not done right...... Element
To the folks suggesting Camry, Corolla et al.........you didn't read the post, did you?