I'm trying to start planning an about-12-day (flexible on either side) loop route for late July. This will be the first outing for me and my two teen-aged sons together, although individually we're all moderately experienced. The problem I'm having is that I just don't know where to start planning the route! Don't know whether to pick a random put-in point and start drawing lines, or aim for a preferred body of water, or . . . I'm hoping you can help get me started with a quick pointer! (This is despite having planned and executed a couple trips in the BWCA 30+ years ago ... I just don't recall how I got started!)

Overall trip parameters:

- Dates: generally about two weeks (with a day to drive there, and a day to drive back, some flexibility), from the last two weeks of July into the first week of August;

- Type of trip: mostly moving forward, with 3-4 layover days, and moderate distance each day, no fear of portages, rivers preferred to lakes if at all possible;

- Competencies:
- Myself: canoed a lot in teens, including two self-organized/executed longish trips to BWCA, but haven't done more than day paddling since my early twenties (and now in my fifties), moderately fit;
- Son 1: 16, very fit, wants to "go hard", about eight weeks cumulative time canoe tripping over last four years, including Allagash, St. Croix and Moose rivers in Maine;
- Son 2: 14, moderately fit, about five weeks cumulative time canoe tripping over last three years on relatively easy routes;

- Liabilities: a derpy golden retriever

Any hints on where to start?

Thanks in advance!!

Hi-

You've got a good start and provided a lot of information.

Dates - since you have flexibility, aim for a mid-week (Tu-Wed-TH) entry and it'll be a little less crowded and chaotic.

Open to either west (Ely & Echo Trail) or east (Sawbill Trail, Grand Marais & Gunflint Trail)? I have done trips on both sides, although recently have been out of Sawbill/Gunflint side.

Completely self-outfitted or need anything from an outfitter?

Type of trip: Pretty good idea of what you want; sounds a lot like a trip I'd plan, only you'll probably travel longer, faster, and farther. Are you taking a 3-man canoe or a tandem and solo? Single or double portage?

I usually start with an average travel speed, hours I'll travel per day, number of days I'll travel vs. layover. I double portage, so I adjust map miles for that (= add 2x each portage distance). Speed x hours x days = total miles +/- for route. Base calculations on weak link - Dad and son #2 - so son #1 doesn't kill you ;). You can do a pretty big loop in 8 days if you travel quite a few miles per day, especially if you're single portaging, so lots of options. Even for me, I'd start with 2 mph average, 4-6 hours per day, 8-12 miles per day (including extra miles for double portage), 8 of 12 days, so about 80 miles.

I usually have an idea of an area I want to see and an entry. Then it's just a matter of looking at the maps and seeing what I can do. You may find the Voyageur Maps website useful for this part (they're zoomable and scrollable). There aren't a lot of rivers (or creeks) in the BW compared to lakes and they're often small and sometimes prone to low water later in summer, as well as beaver dams. You can incorporate some in your route, but they won't make the bulk of it if you're traveling that far.

The first thing to do is to decide on the general area, then the entry point, and secure your permit since they are limited - as you may recall permits are specific to the day and the entry point and are limited to a certain quota.

Do a little research, make some basic calculations, look at maps, read some trip reports, ask some more questions . . .

Want some specific suggestions to look at, just ask.

I have been looking at doing a loop up to frost lake and back. I have read some nice trip reports. This might fit the bill for you. Do a search using search bar on top of page. Oh, that would probably be a Baker lake entry.

Good suggestions above. Here's mine. Enter at Hog Creek EP 36, go west on Isabella Rover to Bald Eagle; continue through Gabbros, up and east on Kawishiwi Wiver to Polly and south and out at Kawishiwi Lake. Under an hours walk to EP36 parking lot or move car to Kawishiwi before you start. Thats about 80 miles, not the 100 I would expect to do with my son in 12 days. So, you could extend from Gabbros a little further east through Clear and that north branch of the Kawishiwi, and or, if you are ahead of schedule around Insula, head up to Fraser, with two routes back down to Kawishiwi. (Really a glutton, Kek, Gabi, and Vierge await!)

While Isabella and Kawishiwi are in name "rivers" they are more like a series of long skinny ponds perhaps with a short unnavigable section ftom time to time. Virtually no current. True of mist of BWCAW.

There is some Pagami Creek burn area, which awes me, especially its regrowth, but some would avoid it.

Based on your description, you should be able to easily do 100-125 miles. At 66 I do 10-12 miles a day over a week or two, double portage, with my son. Thats average including layovers.

A three seater will allow you to go faster further because of portages but I bet you'd love three solos. A tandem and a solo is probably a good compromise.

No mater what route, it will be wonderful.

Here are 3-4 routes to get you thinking about possibilities. All are from eastern entry points. I tried to point out the rivers and a couple of the highlights you might see for each route.

Entry #37 Sawbill (Sawbill Outfitters at the entry. Stay in the campground the night before entry)
Day 1 Sawbill to Phoebe (Phoebe River)
Day 2 Phoebe to Malberg (Phoebe River
Day 3 Malberg to Alice (Kawishiwi River) (Via Fishdance for the Pictographs)
Day 4 Alice to Kek
Day 5 Kek to Ogishkemuncie (Via Eddy Falls)
Day 6 Ogish to Little Sag
Day 7 Little Sag to Tuscarora
Day 8 Tuscarora to Long Island
Day 9 Long Island to North Temperance (Long Island River)
Day 10 North Temperance to Burnt (Temperance River)
Day 11 Burnt to Sawbill.
Day 12 – Layover to add where needed

Entry 47 Lizz Lake (Option 1) (For your 16 yr. old that wants to “Go Hard”)
Rockwood Outfitter at the entry. Bunkhouse available to stay the night before entry.)
Day 1 Poplar(Lizz) to Horseshoe
Day 2 Horseshoe to Long Island
Day 3 Long Island to Frost Lake
Day 4 Frost Lake to Afton Lake (Frost River)
Day 5 Afton to Mesaba
Day 6 Mesaba to Trail Lake (Louse River)
Day 7 Trail Lake to Malberg Lake (Louse River)
Day 8 Malberg to Little Sag
Day 9 Little Sag to Tuscarora
Day 10 Tuscarora to Long Island
Day 11 Long Island to Horseshoe (Muskeg Creek)
Day 12 Horseshoe to Poplar (Lizz)

(Option 2) (A little easier and does not retrace first 2 days)
Day 5 Afton to Little Sag
Day 6 Little Sag to Tuscarora
Day 7 Tuscarora to Long Island
Day 8 Long Island to South Temperance (Long Island River)
Day 9 South Temperance to Winchell
Day 10 Winchell to Horseshoe
Day 11 Horseshoe to Poplar (Lizz)
Day 12 Add a layover where needed.


Entry 50 Cross Bay (Tuscarora Lodge and Outfitter at the entry. Bunkhouse available the night before entry.)
Day 1 Cross Bay to Long Island (Cross Bay River)
Day 2 Long Island to South Temperance (Long Island River)
Day 3 South Temperance to Burnt (Temperance River
Day 4 Burnt to Alton
Day 5 Alton to Phoebe (Phoebe River)
Day 6 Phoebe to Malberg (Phoebe River)
Day 7 Malberg to Alice (Kawishiwi River) (Via Fishdance)
Day 8 Alice to Kek
Day 9 Kekakabic to Ogishkemunci (Visit Eddy Falls when on Eddy Lake)
Day 10 Ogishkemuncie to Gillis (Mueller Falls)
Day 11 Gillis to Brant Lake (Entry) About a ¼ mile walk to your start for the Cross Bay.
Day 12 Layover to add where you need it.

Hope you have a great trip!

As far as entry points and routes go, good options have been mentioned.

If you assume you'll be in a 3-man canoe and can single portage, and let's say you average 2.5 mph and travel just 8 of the 12 days for 6 hours per day, that's 15 miles per day, 120 for 8 days. That's a lot of ground you can cover, so it opens up so many possibilities . . .

Here's another one for you to look at:

Enter at EP #37, Kawishiwi Lake, go north to Polly, east across the Phoebe River (Lady Lakes chain) to Alton, then go north through Cherokee to Frost Lake, west on the Frost River to Afton, south to Mesaba, west on Louse River to Malberg, northwest on the Kawishiwi River to Little Saganaga, loop west through Ogishkemuncie and Kekekabic, south to Fraser, Thomas, Alice, and on to Fishdance (to see pictos), north on Kawishiwi River to Malberg, and back out to Kawishiwi Lake. About 110 miles under those assumptions.

Wow! Thanks to each of you for the very detailed input and trip plans. This is exactly what I needed in order to get a jump-start on planning and to have something to sit down with the boys and work from, which I'm looking forward to doing this weekend. I really appreciate the time you took to provide this detail.

Answering questions from @Boonie:

- We're open to either east or west entry; no preconceptions for the trip other than getting out on the water and into the woods (and time together).

- We'll be partially outfitted. We have a goodly amount of gear from other trips over the last few years, and will add basics to that -- but will definitely be using an outfitter for canoes, etc.

We're really torn between a 3-man and a tandem/solo. I discussed this with the boys this evening, and we're split. I was definitely originally considering only a 3-man, on the basis of portage simplicity and, most importantly, the assumption that on a large lake with a lot of wind, a solo just wouldn't work. But son #1 made the compelling argument that in a heavy wind, we'd just yoke the solo to the tandem and would be fine, and is arguing that a 3-man will be too heavy and unwieldy in general. Youngest son is worried that he's never soloed either a canoe paddle or a canoe portage before, and it'll be too much (my counter-argument is that he's put on a decent bit of size and fitness since last summer, so maybe things have changed). I'm really interested in your opinions!

I think that we'll probably aim for about an 80-90 mile loop, although @BillConner you've given me some comfort that we could do some more comfortably, particularly if we pack on an extra day. @Boonie, I'm assuming that for at least the first half of the trip, given unrefined gear, comfortable eating, and dog food, we'll have to double portage, so that cuts down our speed a bit ... but I'll walk through the routes and can always add a day.

I appreciate the recommendations for "skinny ponds" -- I knew we wouldn't be able to do too much with rivers: it's really son #1's aversion to big lake paddling and headwinds, so skinny ponds are just the ticket.

Thanks again for the starters!

I'm at best an intermediate canoer, and have done big lakes in both tandems and solo. Was on LLC last year in white caps and big rollers. I think the solo feels more comfortable and steady.

Likewise, compare weights if 2 versus 3 person - just a few pounds iirc.

Add a vote for the 3 person canoe here if you want to have a chance at single portaging. Kevlar 3 vs 2 on weight is typically only 8lbs or so.

I get the liking towards smaller waters. Have any other interests? Fishing? Waterfalls? Pictographs? Cliffs? That will help narrow down or adjust routes.

A few that come to mind for the western side would be putting in at 14 or 16 (LIS or Moose R North) and taking those small rivers downstream. 14 to Lynx, Oyster, Gebe, and other great small lakes south of LLC over to Iron and seeing Warrior Hill and great pictos on the way by. If starting at 16 take that river north thru Agnes to Iron. Then past Curtain Falls, thru Crooked and down Friday Bay, down Moosecamp River and eventually out at Mudro. (23) You'd have plenty of time for those.

Here is a thread about a trip I am thinking about that fits your 80-90 miles double portage mileage and has options to shorten or lengthen that you may find helpful.