BWCA DWI + Quetico = never again? Boundary Waters Quetico Forum
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      DWI + Quetico = never again?     

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justinrlees
member (9)member
  
03/21/2018 01:28PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Two of my fishing buds got in to some trouble the last couple years by getting DWI's in the state of MN.

Are our dreams of visiting the Q over for good? (I mean the next ten years, but that is as good as forever)

We wanna know.. we miss visiting the Q, but does anyone have any experience or advice for us to cross into Canada again so we can do another trip into the Q? Any advice/facts/resources you can point to would be helpful!

Thanks,
Justin
 
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jphares44
senior member (54)senior membersenior member
  
03/21/2018 03:37PM  
I wanted to bring a friend along on a trip a few years ago that had a DUI on his record, and was told by our outfitter that 1-time offenders will be overlooked and basically get a free pass...or something along those lines. Like I said, that was a few years ago, and with ever-changing laws and limited knowledge about the process myself, hopefully others can weigh in and give you more solid advice.
tumblehome
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03/21/2018 07:14PM  
There is a way to get into Canada after a DWI but it requires great sums of money to be paid to the Canadian Government for a temporary permit but I do not know the process. It takes at least five years before you can consider entering without a problem.

Some Americans still see drunk driving as a permissible activity even though thousands of innocent people are killed each year by them. As I get older, I tolerate that sort of stuff less and less.. Sorry, that's an editorial
03/21/2018 08:53PM  
It was explained to me that a DUI in Canada is considered a felony and felons are not permitted in most circumstances.
old_salt
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03/22/2018 05:29AM  
If you don’t have a felony, you can go without them.
Jackfish
Moderator
  
03/22/2018 06:37AM  
They could each invest $30 Cdn and apply for an RABC permit. Applying for the permit is your "going through customs" process that you'd normally do at a highway crossing (i.e. International Falls/Fort Frances). If the permit comes in the mail, you're in. If the permit is denied, that sucks, but the BW is a nice place, too.
03/22/2018 07:27AM  
I have an old DUI on my record - 8- years ago. The RABC route is a non-starter since, given all the time they have, you get the full body cavity search done, and it will be denied. "Criminal rehabilitation" is the process to get past that, but it is a daunting proposition I'm completely unwilling to get into. Between Vancouver, Ft. Francis, and somewhere in Maine, I've crossed in person a half dozen times in that span, and am yet to have a problem. On the Q trips I do bring a complete set of BW maps along just in case I ever need to drop back and punt though!
03/22/2018 02:29PM  
Sometimes I think the mood the border crossing officer is in determines if you get in or not. They can make it a enjoyable experience, or make it absolutely miserable. I’ve never had a problem but have talked to people who have.
daverr
member (49)member
  
03/22/2018 02:36PM  
Maybe it is worth checking into the possibility of going through Customs on LLC? You may have the same problems but you would not need a RABC.
justinrlees
member (9)member
  
03/22/2018 04:33PM  
LLC? Border crossing point?
old_salt
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03/22/2018 09:46PM  
There’s no customs station on LLC.
GraniteCliffs
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03/22/2018 10:07PM  
I would never want to schedule a Q trip with someone that has a criminal record, DWI or anything else, unless I knew before I left that they were good to go. I like the idea of spending $30 on an RABC application and simply wait to see if it is approved.

The alternative of arriving at a customs stop anywhere and having entry denied for one of the group would be a trip killer. Leave one guy behind for a week in northern Minnesota? Turn the whole group around and go home?

Try the RABC and then you know for certain and hopefully be good to go.
Savage Voyageur
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03/23/2018 08:58AM  
Do the crime, do the time. Every year we tell our buddies at the planning meeting that if you have any DWIs or any felonies, they won’t let you into Canada.

We have between 6-8 guys most years. We take new people every year, a buddy's friend, etc. I have no idea what their history is. We tell them if they don’t let you into Canada, there is a very nice casino hotel in Grand Portage and we will pick them up there in a week. It’s uncomfortable to ask before hand, but not as uncomfortable as being denied at the Canadian border.
tumblehome
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03/23/2018 07:31PM  
old_salt: "There’s no customs station on LLC."


Well sort of, there is. It's on Crane Lake. There is a Canadian Customs station where you can clear Customs on your way to Lac LaCroix.

Last time I went to that Customs station is was staffed by two young female officers in flip-flops wearing side arms.
old_salt
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03/23/2018 08:55PM  
Last time I checked, Crane was it’s own separate lake, miles from LLC. Technically, you are referring to Sandpoint Lake, which is also miles from LLC.
My point is the same, you can’t cross the border on LLC or any lake without a customs stop or a RABC, where permitted.
03/23/2018 09:32PM  
Do not think it is never again, but it could be a spell.

I worried about this for a long time as I had a DW back in college (82; yeah, I am old!)...

About 25 years ago a buddy and I tried to enter Canada like we had done for a few years in October, a year after my DW. Never gave it a second thought until I was told I was not going to be allowed into Canada because of the DW. Canadian officials tore our truck apart, and then told us to leave. Same thing happened 50 yards later when re-entered the US; all told, this was about an 8 hour embarrassing experience from hell.

Wanted to go to Quetico for a long time, but was afraid of having to deal with another highlight in the shame spotlight. I finally applied for a RABC, and I was approved.

For me, even 30 years out, I was afraid of being rejected. So, I get the worry, but there is only one way to find out: apply for a RABC or take the chance crossing. That said, I doubt, if the DW's are only a couple years old, that they will be approved.
GraniteCliffs
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03/23/2018 09:46PM  
I would NEVER go to Sandpoint Customs to find out if I was good to get into Canada. Again, one of the group is denied entry. Now your group is on SandPoint or Crane: Now what?
Do the RABC app! Thirty bucks well spent. Probably cheaper than a weeks stay on Crane or in Orr waiting for your former friends to return from their wonderful week in Quetico.
Guest Paddler
  
03/24/2018 09:14AM  
So, just so I’m clear: Apply for a RABC, and if that is approved that is almost guaranteed entrance into Canada, or at least that clears you from being denied for your record? Considering your not denied at the border for other reasons..
03/24/2018 09:25AM  
Apply for an RABC and if approved enter via an entry point that does not involve a customs stop (Prairie Portage, Cache Bay).
03/24/2018 12:40PM  
: "So, just so I’m clear: Apply for a RABC, and if that is approved that is almost guaranteed entrance into Canada, or at least that clears you from being denied for your record? Considering your not denied at the border for other reasons.."




Yes if you apply for an RABC and get it, you must be cleared as they do a more exhaustive background check to clear customs. If you had a previous DWI and you get an RABC either the Canadians can’t access it or it is old enough to be off the record.

If you apply for the RABC and get denied that might flag you from entering in the future. Most people that cross into Canada by car don’t get checked. So you might be able to cross if you just drive over, but there is always the risk you will get checked and turned away. So you could just take your chances.

I think if your DUI is 10 years or older you are pretty safe but that might depend on the severity of your crime. If someone got injured or ya ran from the police I am sure they hold that against ya...can’t blame them.

T
GraniteCliffs
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03/24/2018 01:31PM  
Banksiana: "Apply for an RABC and if approved enter via an entry point that does not involve a customs stop (Prairie Portage, Cache Bay)."

So if you have the RABC approved as Banks says and you enter through PP or Cache Bay you are only checking in with the Quetico Park, not with customs. You never see a customs person since you are already approved for entry by the Canadians.
billconner
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03/24/2018 01:38PM  
: "So, just so I’m clear: Apply for a RABC, and if that is approved that is almost guaranteed entrance into Canada, or at least that clears you from being denied for your record? Considering your not denied at the border for other reasons.."


If you have an RABC, you can enter remotely. Just carry it - I have never been asked for it. Park rangers don't enforce laws about crossing international borders and while there has been a report or two of a border agent at PP - I think soon after 9/11 - its rare. You wont be asked for it at the ranger station.

BUT at a border crossing, its entirely up to the agent. When I crossed on way to Atikokan in same year I had an RABC for a trip out of PP, the agent was not interested in the RABC. They have complete authority as to whether or not you get in. So while the background check for an RABC is probably consistent and fairly thorough, an agent can wave you in spend along time questioning and looking at records. Reportedly, if you get caught lying, you are likely to be banned for life. They also don't look kindly at all on you trying another crossing point after having been denied entry.
GraniteCliffs
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03/24/2018 05:21PM  
Bottom line, get the RABC and you are officially cleared to enter the Q remotely at PP or Cache and you are in full compliance, even with the off chance you are stopped by a customs agent.
missmolly
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03/24/2018 05:48PM  
Years ago, my Dad tried to cross into British Columbia just after they made passports a requirement. He didn't have his, so they told him to do a 180. He did, but they noted on his record that he was denied entry and every single time since then, they pull him into their building and ask him about that.

My point is that if you're with a DWI guy and you're denied entry because of that, you might be pulled into the building too and questioned, again and again.
03/24/2018 09:41PM  
If your entering through customs I'd have the DWI folks drive seperate. They don't make it through you keep going. They do you all keep going. Then your not jepordizing yourself or others for current or future trips.
Why anyone would show a rabc at a customs is beyond me. Customs is not a remote access point. I wouldn't risk having it pulled from you.
Sandpoint Lake customs is a good crossing. They do a visual look at your passport but I don't recall any scanning. But by all means if they ask you anything... Don't lie!
missmolly
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03/25/2018 07:14AM  
What Ben said!
mutz
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03/26/2018 09:43AM  
missmolly: "Years ago, my Dad tried to cross into British Columbia just after they made passports a requirement. He didn't have his, so they told him to do a 180. He did, but they noted on his record that he was denied entry and every single time since then, they pull him into their building and ask him about that.


My point is that if you're with a DWI guy and you're denied entry because of that, you might be pulled into the building too and questioned, again and again. "



You will not be denied entry because someone you are with had a DUI and was denied. That person will be sent back, you will be told to have a good time. You will not be questioned if you don’t have a DUI. They are only concerned about the person that had the DUI.
mr.barley
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03/26/2018 05:42PM  
I know a guy who applied and received an RABC within 5 years of his DUI. It may have been a fluke and he never did use it because he had a family emergency and he had to cancel his trip with us.
03/26/2018 07:05PM  
Pretty simple to find out; have them apply for the RABC. If they do not get the permit, plan something else. The idea of driving in separate cars and possibly leaving them behind is hogwash. Who could enjoy that?
mutz
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03/26/2018 08:05PM  
If we were going on a trip with the possibility of one of the group not getting in due to a DUI we would have no thought of leaving him behind. We would have a back up trip planned that would have a close starting point and would cause little delay in our departure. In the long run where we trip will have little affect on the enjoyment we will have.
billconner
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03/27/2018 06:25AM  
mutz: "If we were going on a trip with the possibility of one of the group not getting in due to a DUI we would have no thought of leaving him behind. We would have a back up trip planned that would have a close starting point and would cause little delay in our departure. In the long run where we trip will have little affect on the enjoyment we will have."


+1
DrBobDg
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03/28/2018 10:44AM  
kindof like the unforgivable sin.......

dr bob
Oldtown13
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03/30/2018 08:58PM  
Does anyone have any experience with a reduced charge, like reckless driving? Is that seen as more lenient, like if you were arrested on a DUI but weren't convicted of DUI?
billconner
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03/31/2018 06:23AM  
Oldtown13: "Does anyone have any experience with a reduced charge, like reckless driving? Is that seen as more lenient, like if you were arrested on a DUI but weren't convicted of DUI?"


Pretty sure it's based on conviction, not charge. But if a charge is dropped, it may not show as dropped when CA border agents check.
flopnfolds
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04/02/2018 08:28AM  
Good luck. Several years ago, one of our group members was denied his RABC because of his DUI 9 years prior. Canada told him they could appeal the decision, but he decided not to appeal.

I would think you have an easier time getting across at the Border, rather than an RABC, but best to have a back up plan ready, like multiple cars so if your two friends have to turn back, you guys can continue on in your own vehicle.

04/02/2018 12:11PM  
billconner: "
Oldtown13: "Does anyone have any experience with a reduced charge, like reckless driving? Is that seen as more lenient, like if you were arrested on a DUI but weren't convicted of DUI?"



Pretty sure it's based on conviction, not charge. But if a charge is dropped, it may not show as dropped when CA border agents check. "


I am not a lawyer but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night :)

I agree with Bill, to base it off of a charge vs. conviction would not make sense. I'd be very surprised.
GraniteCliffs
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04/02/2018 11:16PM  
Might not be the charge BUT: Depending on what the Customs folks have access to today would make a difference. At least in Minnesota a record check by law enforcement will clearly show the charge was alcohol related, charged as a DWI and reduced to a careless driving. Not sure if Canadian customs still has access to the information or cares. But I do remember in the past getting calls at work from the border because, at least back then, US citizens were denied entry when a DWI was charged and reduced to a careless. Even when we sent verification of the reduction it did not help. Times may have changed but may well not have.
04/28/2018 03:45PM  
If you have a passport are you good to go? Or can you still be denied at the border crossing?
billconner
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04/28/2018 05:48PM  
scat: "If you have a passport are you good to go? Or can you still be denied at the border crossing?"


Not you have a conviction for what Canada vondiders a felony.

And GC is correct. My son had been charged but it was dismissed. To get his RABC he had to get a letter from the arresting police drpartment.

Now, if you had a Canadian visa, that might do it. Better ask the guy who stayed in the Holiday Inn last night.
mutz
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04/28/2018 05:53PM  
scat: "If you have a passport are you good to go? Or can you still be denied at the border crossing?"


Passport does not guarantee entry if you have been convicted of certain crimes you will be denied entry.
Thos
member (33)member
  
05/01/2018 08:23PM  
Issue of interest-1. My brother went for years after nasty divorce led to ex charging abuse- didn’t happen, was dropped w/out trial. 3o years later, my brother flew into canada, having been there for once or more driving over the border in the intervening years, landed in Ottawa, his passport was run and he was to be denied entry because of the(dropped) charge from many (>>10) years ago. Only pleading that our then 88 year old mother was alone-except for her early but not insignificant dementia- in or semi-remote camp led them to relent. NO conviction- a South Carolina charge decades ol=no entry.
2. Another friend who’d love to come up to that same camp had 2 DUI’s, last 15 years ago. RBwhatever denied. Clean and sober since, but no sale, no recourse
Personal perspective- not a nod to me for sure- but whatever inclination I had to say to myself I hadn’t had “that much”- well, thoughts of never getting back to my camp (!(^@ first visit) or the Q (1964 first trip with Outward Bound in inaugural year-article in True Magazine with my pic about it- never mind how old that makes me)- any way- Uber is preferable for all
Savage Voyageur
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05/09/2018 08:29PM  
scat: "If you have a passport are you good to go? Or can you still be denied at the border crossing?"


A passport just means you are a citizen of that country. Any country that has access to our records can see if you have had any violations and deny you at thier border.
05/10/2018 10:05AM  
mutz: "If we were going on a trip with the possibility of one of the group not getting in due to a DUI we would have no thought of leaving him behind. We would have a back up trip planned that would have a close starting point and would cause little delay in our departure. In the long run where we trip will have little affect on the enjoyment we will have."

Does your "back up trip planned" involve getting a permit for the BW? If so, this is very selfish as someone now will be denied a BW permit if the quota is full. Better to apply for an RABC. If you can afford a Q trip, you can afford the $30.00 per person/family to be sure all can go.
billconner
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05/10/2018 06:50PM  
An RABC does not assure crossing at a regular enrty. They didn't want to see mine, almost seemed offended I suggested it.

Since I don't plan and often pick up bwca permits at last minute, I don't see how that deprives anyone. Always some available.
GraniteCliffs
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05/11/2018 09:55AM  
It seems clear to me. Have everyone get RABCs. Enter at PP or Cache Bay and you are good to go. It is the only fail safe method that can be completed in advance that will guarantee entrance and no problems.
05/11/2018 10:56AM  
GraniteCliffs: "It seems clear to me. Have everyone get RABCs. Enter at PP or Cache Bay and you are good to go. It is the only fail safe method that can be completed in advance that will guarantee entrance and no problems. "


I feel the same way. While as BC pointed out they do not care about a RABC at manned crossings, you did pay the Canadian Customs in advance to check and authorize your Customs legality. Closest to an "ahead of crossing OK" as you can get.

butthead
mutz
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05/11/2018 11:29AM  
bwcadan: "
mutz: "If we were going on a trip with the possibility of one of the group not getting in due to a DUI we would have no thought of leaving him behind. We would have a back up trip planned that would have a close starting point and would cause little delay in our departure. In the long run where we trip will have little affect on the enjoyment we will have."

Does your "back up trip planned" involve getting a permit for the BW? If so, this is very selfish as someone now will be denied a BW permit if the quota is full. Better to apply for an RABC. If you can afford a Q trip, you can afford the $30.00 per person/family to be sure all can go."

I said “If we were going on a trip with the possibility “, my point was no one would be left behind or sent home. Where we go on our trips is secondary to who goes on the trip. We trip in mid/late September so an alternate entry point would be no problem with out a reservation.
billconner
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05/11/2018 03:43PM  
mutz: "
bwcadan: "
mutz: "If we were going on a trip with the possibility of one of the group not getting in due to a DUI we would have no thought of leaving him behind. We would have a back up trip planned that would have a close starting point and would cause little delay in our departure. In the long run where we trip will have little affect on the enjoyment we will have."

Does your "back up trip planned" involve getting a permit for the BW? If so, this is very selfish as someone now will be denied a BW permit if the quota is full. Better to apply for an RABC. If you can afford a Q trip, you can afford the $30.00 per person/family to be sure all can go."

I said “If we were going on a trip with the possibility “, my point was no one would be left behind or sent home. Where we go on our trips is secondary to who goes on the trip. We trip in mid/late September so an alternate entry point would be no problem with out a reservation. "

+1
billconner
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05/11/2018 03:45PM  
As we have seen, if you never had a dui, had one 20 years ago, or last week, you might get in at a crossing with an agent and you might not. Situations warrant better or worse odds, but no guarantees.

If you get an RABC, unmanned crossing is assured with very little liklihod of negative consequences. I'll ignore the fact that crossing remotely without an RABC is assured but possible very bad consequences.

We look for and expect logic and reason in these things, and sometimes we are not disappointed.
02/09/2021 06:21PM  
old_salt: "There’s no customs station on LLC."


Maybe they meant Canadian customs on or near Sand Point? The one you stop at en route from Crane Lake to the Lac La Croix ranger station to pick up your Quetico Bottle Portage entry permit.. Has that been shut down?
RunningFox
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02/09/2021 08:31PM  
George W. Bush pled guilty to a DUI charge and he got into Canada. Appears Canada isn’t adverse to “Felons” when they carry the nuclear football.
Hanson214
  
02/12/2021 11:36AM  
I had this problem years ago. Was pulled over in Ely and charged with DUI i was able to get it reduced to Reckless driving. This was futher complicated by Having a work visa to guide in Ontario. I did go thru the process of getting it “pardoned”. There are a ton of attourneys in the Twin Citys that deal with this. My last trip across the border was at Grand Portage the prior criminal record was not a concern but the did bring us in and question if i was guiding even though i had never crossed at Grand Portage.
02/13/2021 07:23PM  
Have a friend with a DUI and he got some kind of document to take with him when he crosses the border and he never has had a problem. If your interested I can check with him to see what it is and how he got it.
Funny thing is we were in a group crossing the border and he went right through and we got pulled over. We made the mistake of throwing his suitcase in our trailer which had his papers in it and they found them along with his prescription. Not a good situation!
allfish
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02/18/2021 10:04AM  
2 of our guys got one, so now we figure we are maybe out of Quetico Biz, and we will have to paddle up from near Ely into the east side of Crooked? I guess that would be better than no trip at all...
allfish
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02/18/2021 10:14AM  
...and roger that what Tumblehome said about the staff at Sand Point, flip-flops, shooters, and I'm pretty sure one of them had a ring in her nose...
 
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