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jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/25/2018 09:04PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I'm looking for a solo canoe to do some moving water tripping. I have a Wenonah Prism that I love for lakes, but the length and lack of rocker do not seem suitable for a multi-day trip on moving water. Class I - II would be the most difficult sections with a mix of moving flatware and small lakes. I'm a big guy, 6"2, 270, and I cannot kneel due to several knee surgeries. The Hemlock SRT seems like a great boat, but it looks like it's designed for kneeling. Others I looked at are the Wenonah Wilderness and Northstar Northward Solo. Any others to look at?
 
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JATFOMike
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03/26/2018 03:21AM  
Look at the Northstar Phoenix......It was designed as a river tripping boat. It is a kneeling boat, but you can get longer seat drops for sitting. Enough rocker for maneuverability and enough room for plenty of gear. Mine came with the longer seat drops and has enough stability to fish out of. This Spring, I am playing with shortening the seat drops to allow me some flexibility with kneeling. I can't kneel for long periods of time, but can get by for short periods. I've had my right knee rebuilt a couple of times and the Doc tells me the next step is replacement.....I'm trying to hold off as long as I can on that. Cliff Jacobson recently did a review on the Phoenix on his blog at Cliffcanoe.com.....

Mike
 
03/26/2018 09:12AM  
What kind of moving water? Rocks, rapids likelihood of loaded canoe moving fast coming in contact with rocks?

Its getting harder to find used solo royalex boats, but they are out there. Have to be patient. Watch CL in the big canoe market areas and expect to travel to get one. A Bell Yellowstone solo, a Mohawk Odyssey, Mad River Freedom, I am sure there are others that are not popping in my brain right now. There were lots of options for awhile, but not enough demand to sustain production. All good boats for a river tour with moderate whitewater.
 
jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/26/2018 10:27AM  
sedges: "What kind of moving water? Rocks, rapids likelihood of loaded canoe moving fast coming in contact with rocks?


Its getting harder to find used solo royalex boats, but they are out there. Have to be patient. Watch CL in the big canoe market areas and expect to travel to get one. A Bell Yellowstone solo, a Mohawk Odyssey, Mad River Freedom, I am sure there are others that are not popping in my brain right now. There were lots of options for awhile, but not enough demand to sustain production. All good boats for a river tour with moderate whitewater."

Twisting and turning flat water and occasional riffles and waves. I'll portage around anything too bony. Northstar claims their IXP layup has better "performance" than Royalex, but performance may not include durability and impact resistance.
 
Alan Gage
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03/26/2018 03:30PM  
Do you have any particular rivers/trips in mind? Much of it depends on how much moving water/rapids you expect to do in relation to lake travel. Just about anything should be able to handle CI and even most CII when it's just pick a line and run it straight. I wouldn't hesitate to try the Prism and see how it does. A more maneuverable hull can make it more enjoyable but if you're used to paddling a Prism something like a 14' Phoenix or Wildfire is going to be quite a learning curve.

For a mix of lake and river traveling up to CII I prefer something around 16'. It can be hard to find something that provides a good mix of maneuverability for rapids and tracking for lake travel and someone that's 5'6" could certainly have a different sweet spot than you at 6'2". I don't have any specific recommendations for you. I couldn't find what I wanted so I designed and built my own. Maybe look at some offerings from Nova Craft. I'm thinking at your size you'll be wanting a higher volume boat.

Don't feel locked into Royalex. I do difficult trips and run up to easy CIII with composite and cedar strip.

Alan

 
03/26/2018 04:08PM  
You may want tour about and paddle some of these boats and see how you feel sitting instead of kneeling. Sometimes I think that builders show people kneeling in their boats because so many first-timers feel they are so tippy. I like the new Northstar Phoenix, with symmetrical rocker. The Novacraft Supernova would also be on my short list for the same reason. The Hemlock SRT is great boat.

Personally I have had no problem sitting in boats in which most folks kneel. I raised the seat in my Dagger Sojourn when most folks were lowering theirs. You may feel the same way, or not. Best to try some out.
 
jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/26/2018 04:43PM  
Alan Gage: "Do you have any particular rivers/trips in mind? Much of it depends on how much moving water/rapids you expect to do in relation to lake travel. Just about anything should be able to handle CI and even most CII when it's just pick a line and run it straight. I wouldn't hesitate to try the Prism and see how it does. A more maneuverable hull can make it more enjoyable but if you're used to paddling a Prism something like a 14' Phoenix or Wildfire is going to be quite a learning curve.


For a mix of lake and river traveling up to CII I prefer something around 16'. It can be hard to find something that provides a good mix of maneuverability for rapids and tracking for lake travel and someone that's 5'6" could certainly have a different sweet spot than you at 6'2". I don't have any specific recommendations for you. I couldn't find what I wanted so I designed and built my own. Maybe look at some offerings from Nova Craft. I'm thinking at your size you'll be wanting a higher volume boat.


Don't feel locked into Royalex. I do difficult trips and run up to easy CIII with composite and cedar strip.


Alan

I live in PA, so these may not be familiar. Close to me we have the Delaware, Schuylkill, and lower Lehigh rivers. A little further afield we have the Susquehanna, Pine Creek, and the Allegheny River System. The Adirondacks has the Oswegatchie River Traverse and the Raquette River. In Maine the West Branch Penobscot and section of the Allegash. I've done all of these in tandems. For class III-V whitewater, I've run rivers all over the east coast and south in my 13' Royalex Dagger Encore canoe, but gave that up after three knee surgeries. I keep looking at a Northwind solo which is a foot shorter than my Prism and has a little rocker. I should have a chance to try one in April and this June I may get a chance to paddle a Hemlock SRT in western PA.
 
DanCooke
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03/26/2018 04:47PM  
"Twisting and turning flat water and occasional riffles and waves. I'll portage around anything too bony. Northstar claims their IXP layup has better "performance" than Royalex, but performance may not include durability and impact resistance."
The IXP layup has taken on Bony rivers and major impacts very well- Better than Roylex from what I have seen. Bears trip down the Thoa river where he ran rapids till grounding out when the rock gardens were taller than water and then dragging through, would give me plenty of confidence of the materials.
As far as hull design that best suits your needs, you will need to do some self evaluation of what you are looking for in the hull shape.
for reference. Bear is 6'5" and has out for 17 plus days on an extremely remote river- but that was Bear.
 
03/26/2018 05:29PM  
Ozarkpaddler is a pretty big guy and one of the better downriver paddlers I've ever seen. Among the countless canoes he's owned is a Wenonah Prospector 15 that he turned into a solo. He goes anywhere anybody else can go, and can haul a bunch of stuff. I'm thinking about trying that myself.
 
Alan Gage
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03/26/2018 06:10PM  
jdmccurry: "
For class III-V whitewater, I've run rivers all over the east coast and south in my 13' Royalex Dagger Encore canoe, but gave that up after three knee surgeries. "


That clears things up a little. I thought you were a strictly flat water paddler looking to get into some moving water. With whitewater experience behind you you've already got a good idea on the performance characteristics of moving water hulls and I assume the skills to make them go straight in flat water.

Aren't there a couple sole canoe rendezvous in the PA area? Should be a lot of different hulls to test paddle if you can get to one or two.

Alan
 
yellowcanoe
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03/26/2018 06:29PM  
IF you are in Pennsylvania there is a Solo Canoe Rendezvous the first weekend in June in Slippery Rock at Coopers Lake. Lots of boats to look at.
It is not true the SRT must be knelt in. As you know Hemlock has no dealer network and can install whatever seat you want at whatever height you want. Thats what you get from a small builder. So could Ted Bell I am sure at Northstar.

The same weekend at the WPA Solo Canoe event is a clinic on the Slip

Slip Moving water clinic

Many people go between both.

I can post more details about the Western PA Solo Canoe Rendezvous but it shows high on Google.

I liked my Swift Raven for multiday downriver trips. But I had the Royalex version.

Millbrook boats are composite and quite durable. Millbrook is designed to withstand NH rivers ..read rock pile.
 
jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/26/2018 09:10PM  
sedges: "The Hemlock SRT is great boat.
Personally I have had no problem sitting in boats in which most folks kneel. I raised the seat in my Dagger Sojourn when most folks were lowering theirs. You may feel the same way, or not. Best to try some out."


Back in my whitewater days I paddled a fair amount with the SRT designer, Harold Deal. Just watching Harold paddle taught you a lot about boat control and efficiency.

In regards to sitting, footrests go a long way in providing and extra measure of stability and control. For any moving water boat I get, footrests are a must have. I also like the moveable seat on my Prism in the way it tunes the trim.
 
03/27/2018 06:00AM  
Ask Wenonah about their Argosy
 
yellowcanoe
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03/27/2018 08:23AM  
nctry: "Ask Wenonah about their Argosy"


You will either love it or as I did hate it... The shape of the hull encourages waves from the side to follow the curve into your lap. And the pointy ends give you water from the bow.

Its a moving water boat as in C1 but when you run into wave trains good luck.

I was truly terrified in the Argosy when we came out of a lock on the Allegheny river. The river was in flood and overtopped the dam.. When the lock gates opened it was the entrance to river hell.. We had two foot waves coming from three directions. I was kneeling.. and praying for survival

The adjustable seat is clunky and prone to self adjustment unless you are in the lowest position. I bolted mine so that it could not self adjust anymore

Currently my favorite river tripping boat is the DragonFly. 14'6 " it was made originally by Curtis ( Hemlock) and now by Colden Canoe

It is deep enough for dryness and the shoulder keeps the waves from riding up. There will be some at the Pennsylvania event.
 
jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/27/2018 10:00AM  
yellowcanoe: "
nctry: "Ask Wenonah about their Argosy"

Currently my favorite river tripping boat is the DragonFly. 14'6 " it was made originally by Curtis ( Hemlock) and now by Colden Canoe
It is deep enough for dryness and the shoulder keeps the waves from riding up. There will be some at the Pennsylvania event."


Thanks for the info. What is the construction of the Dragonfly? I didn't see much detail on the website. It was also interesting to see the Dragonfly photo with the double blade paddle on the Colden website. Is that the recommended paddle?

From this very informative discussion, it seems there are quite a few choices. The Hemlock SRT, Northstar Phoenix, and Colden Dragonfly are all similar in length and rocker, with the Colden being a narrower and a little less volume. All three deserve a good look, especially since the group represents a considerable design departure from my Prism. I'm still keeping the Northwind Solo in mind.

I will certainly try to attend the PA event in June to try the SRT and Dragonfly. Unfortunately Northstar won't be there.
 
ozarkpaddler
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03/27/2018 07:38PM  
nctry: "Ask Wenonah about their Argosy"


Well.....as for this big guy that's your size I couldn't keep an Argosy upright kneeling. Those bubble sides......big guys sink it low enough that it is looking for an excuse to rest upside down. Definitely not my favorite. In fact, for this guy, it is probably the LEAST likeable boat I've paddled?

I like big solos and small tandems myself. I have a camera in hand often and I don't want to swim with my DSLR. I paddle primarily on moving water in the Ozarks. Currently I have a Bell Morningstar converted solo and a Bell Rock Star. I kneel and can only sit about 10 minutes or so at a time due to some nerve damage in my leg.

As for the Wenonah Prospector 15 my friend maxxbhp was talking about, I traded it for a Mad River Independence last summer. The Morningstar was better in headwinds than the Prospector. If I just had the skill to cut 2" off the Prospector stems and an inch amidships, it would be in the barn still!

Some other big guy river solos I've enjoyed over the years are all boats that are tough to find. Dagger Reflection 15, Mad River Courier, and my all time favorite the Bell Starfire. I'd still have them but thought I was paddling my last days a few years back. But that's another story.
 
JATFOMike
distinguished member (366)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
03/28/2018 05:42AM  
If you are coming from the East to attend the WPSCR, check the below link.....they carry a full line of the Northstar canoes and you will probably drive right by them. It's where I wound up purchasing my Phoenix last Spring. I checked and they don't currently have a Phoenix in stock, but my guess is their Spring shipment hasn't arrived yet....they do currently list a Northwind solo.... If you ever come thru SW Ohio, you would be welcome to paddle mine...

Blue Mountain Outfitters

Mike
 
yellowcanoe
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03/28/2018 08:13AM  
jdmccurry: "
yellowcanoe: "
nctry: "Ask Wenonah about their Argosy"

Currently my favorite river tripping boat is the DragonFly. 14'6 " it was made originally by Curtis ( Hemlock) and now by Colden Canoe
It is deep enough for dryness and the shoulder keeps the waves from riding up. There will be some at the Pennsylvania event."



Thanks for the info. What is the construction of the Dragonfly? I didn't see much detail on the website. It was also interesting to see the Dragonfly photo with the double blade paddle on the Colden website. Is that the recommended paddle?


I will certainly try to attend the PA event in June to try the SRT and Dragonfly. Unfortunately Northstar won't be there."


Not the recommended paddle That is my boat. The story behind the picture is that I was on a 27 mile long lake paddling into a headwind with two foot waves. I needed the extra oomph. I was taking frequent rest stops.

Were I on a river it would be single blade all the way or on a small lake or one with less wind. Chesuncook ( and Black Pond connected) must be translated into "thats one witch of a lake"

The DragonFly is 38 lbs and is a blend of Kev Carbon Fiber and a bit of glass. Its got a hefty layup schedule reinforced where it needs to be for rivers. Mine was the first built by Colden and since then Paul has built some others.

You can also find some older Curtis DragonFly boats in western PA and western NY.. The same boat without the carbon fiber.
 
jdmccurry
member (45)member
  
03/28/2018 09:21AM  
yellowcanoe: "

Were I on a river it would be single blade all the way or on a small lake or one with less wind. Chesuncook ( and Black Pond connected) must be translated into "thats one witch of a lake". "


I know what you mean about Chesuncook/Black Pond! I've paddled that part of Maine dozens of times going back to 1972. It can also blow hard on Caucomgomoc lake. In 1982 we were wind bound for a day trying to get to Rowe Pond with a Mad River Explorer 16. The next year we bought a kevlar Wenona Odyssey and always managed to overcome any wind condition. I'm sure you've done the wonderful loop Caucomgomoc/Allegash/Telos/Umbazooksus/Chesuncook/Black.
 
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