Anyone care to offer their opinion on these Craigslist listings? **Edit---thoughts as far as their suitability for extended tripping on lakes and big rivers as well as quality and valued**
Thanks

https://boulder.craigslist.org/boa/d/canoe-northstar-northwind/6550198866.html

https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/boa/d/jensen-18-wenonah-fiberglass/6522303654.html

The Wenonah is a mid-1970s Jensen 18, a very nicely designed, fast, sit and switch boat. It was commonly used as a citizen's class racer. This one has their whitewater layup with the center rib and shock absorbers. It is entirely suitable for lake tripping if that's your style (I've paddled Wenonahs for almost 40 years).

I don't know the Northstar boat other than the specs--it is a similar class boat, long and fast. One concern is that it is listed as carbon--the add shows two different boats, the one with gear is Kevlar, the one in the rafters appears to be something else, perhaps Royalex, which is much heavier. I didn't know Northstar made them in Royalex, but according to reviews Northwind reviews a Royalex version was made. The two different layups will be quite different in handling (and portaging). Here's a link to the Royalex Royalex . The Royalex is considerably cheaper. However, Royalex is no longer made, and so people might be upping the price.

If these boats fit your needs, the main consideration for the Wenonah is how it was stored. Fiberglass can get brittle it it's been stored in the sun. I have a 1982 fiberglass Wenonah that is still fine, with storage primarily under a tarp outside. The price might be high for such an old boat, but it's hard to find decent boats for cheap. For the Northstar, if it is indeed Royalex, either the owner doesn't know what he has (the paddles are very low-end, suggesting the same) or the owner is misrepresenting what he has, not a good thing. I certainly wouldn't buy either without seeing them first.

Well, as Mreid said, that is a royalex Northwind, not a kevlar Northstar. Adds like this bother me because they are at best ignorant and at worst "Damn liars." The boat in the picture is royalex and 16'6", not 18'6". Kind of hard to not know that. Also misrepresenting the price.

I have owned a royalex Northwind and it's one of my favorite tandem boats (behind only the Bell Chestnut Prospector). It can handle a nice sized tandem load and if you add a kneeling thwart or center seat it can be soloed by a larger paddler.

That said, I don't see the Bell logo and I noticed the cheap aluminum seat hangers. I also didn't see the Bell "Paw" on the decks and I believe Bell only used the OD color on the "Woodsman" canoes they made for others? It leads me to believe it was one of the Northwinds built for Galyan's et al "Big box" stores. Still the same, fine hull, but they sold NEW for less than what this person is asking for a used boat. If it's in good shape, offer them $600-700. It's a good deal for both of you. But proceed with caution as I'm worried about the honesty of the seller?

Here's a couple pics of what my old Northwind looked like to give you an idea. In the 1st pic I had moved my stern seat a bit forward:

I used a Jensen 18 in the BW for many years. A very capable tripping canoe. Very fast a and a joy to paddle.

Thanks for the responses. Confirmed my suspicions on the Bell. I don't know canoes very well but something seemed off.

A couple additional questions:

MReid, you mentioned brittle fiberglass. Is there a good way to check for brittleness in an older fiberglass boat without running the risk of damaging it and being obligated to buy an old, brittle and now damaged boat? Thanks

Ozarkpaddler--I have an OT Penobscot 16 in royalex. Would the listed Bell be better, the same or worse in performance to my P16? I'm looking for a boat for a family member and he lives on a flatwater river but also wants to do extended trips with his wife and 2 kids. Boat needs to be durable with good capacity, at least passable as a solo boat and in the $600 range. In other words, an entry level all-around boat. Thanks

WIMike:

MReid, you mentioned brittle fiberglass. Is there a good way to check for brittleness in an older fiberglass boat without running the risk of damaging it and being obligated to buy an old, brittle and now damaged boat? Thanks


Ozarkpaddler--I have an OT Penobscot 16 in royalex. Would the listed Bell be better, the same or worse in performance to my P16? I'm looking for a boat for a family member and he lives on a flatwater river but also wants to do extended trips with his wife and 2 kids. Boat needs to be durable with good capacity, at least passable as a solo boat and in the $600 range. In other words, an entry level all-around boat. Thanks"

That's a good one. I'm not sure a good way to test without stressing the boat a bit. You might look for spider fractures in the gel coat, but that's not definitive. My old boat has seen a lot of bangs over the years, and has lots of tiny gel coat fractures without compromising the integrity of the boat. I always listen for cracking when I'm cinching down the boat on racks--nothing significant yet. I'd at least pound on the boat some with the bottom of your fist or something soft--bilges, floor, and near the gunwales, and ask how the boat has been stored. If the boat is seriously bleached looking, I'd walk away, as the bleaching would be from extensive UV exposure, which also makes the fiberglass brittle. Others who work in fiberglass might be of more help.

Regarding your Penobscot, it's a pretty sleek Royalex design, especially if it's a later version (they were built with a lighter Royalex layup, saving probably 10 pounds or so--I've had both, and the lighter one was a joy). But, any 16 foot boat is going to be stretched with tripping and four people. Two people and gear is fine, or maybe two adults and two young kids and no gear, but 4 and gear will be tough. For that you should be looking at 18-20 foot boats, or two boats if the kids are old enough (10 yo??).

WIMike: "Thanks for the responses. Confirmed my suspicions on the Bell. I don't know canoes very well but something seemed off.
A couple additional questions:
MReid, you mentioned brittle fiberglass. Is there a good way to check for brittleness in an older fiberglass boat without running the risk of damaging it and being obligated to buy an old, brittle and now damaged boat? Thanks

Ozarkpaddler--I have an OT Penobscot 16 in royalex. Would the listed Bell be better, the same or worse in performance to my P16? I'm looking for a boat for a family member and he lives on a flatwater river but also wants to do extended trips with his wife and 2 kids. Boat needs to be durable with good capacity, at least passable as a solo boat and in the $600 range. In other words, an entry level all-around boat. Thanks"

Weeeelllll, unless the paddlers and kids are very small, both are probably a bit small? The Northwind is 6" longer, a bit wider, and hull not as rounded as the Penobscot, so it's a better family boat.

We paddled a Penobscot on my wife's first BWCAW trip in 1985. Back then Aluminum was "Standard" and royalex was the "Upgrade" for many outfitters! Anyway, my wife felt the Penobscot too lively while she was always perfectly comfortable in the Northwind.

Indeed, the secondary stability is so incredible she fell out after planting her paddle into a fast eddy! Me and my buddy's granddaughter (she was in the middle) stayed dry! It was the most incredible thing I've seen happen to a paddler (LOL)! My buddy's granddaughter climbed up into the bow seat and my friend rescued my wife (LOL). I think I have a few "Musical chair" boat pics? Good luck!

ozarkpaddler: "Well, as Mreid said, that is a royalex Northwind, not a kevlar Northstar. Adds like this bother me because they are at best ignorant and at worst "Damn liars." The boat in the picture is royalex and 16'6", not 18'6". Kind of hard to not know that. Also misrepresenting the price..."

Yes, some of the CL ads are a real treat to read. I tend to think most of these are just ignorant of what they are trying to sell, but this one showing a kevlar in the water and a royalex hanging in the garage is a real hoot. Some of my favorites are the ones that "comes with oars." Of course they can't compare to the ones sitting in the back 40 full of 10 years worth of leaves.

The Wenonah does not appear to be kevlar reinforced. I don't believe kevlar was used in any canoe when that one was manufactured. I also would weigh the canoe before buying. I had a mid-1980's kevlar Jensen and it weighed in at 55 pounds. I find it hard to believe that a fiberglass canoe would be only 11 pounds heavier. That canoe is likely in the mid 70 pound range or heavier.

Finally, $500 is too much for this canoe, at least in Minnesota. If you look hard enough, you can find a used Royalex for that price. Royalex is far more durable and likely lighter than this canoe. I would pass on it.

I contacted the owner of the "carbon fiber Northstar" and gently questioned whether it wasn't perhaps royalex. He insisted that it wasn't but said someone else had asked the same question. Later he said that he checked into it and that it was indeed royalex and that he dropped the price to $700. He sold the boat later yesterday.

I appreciate everyone's responses. I was mildly interested in the Northwind as royalex boats suit my needs well but will probably pass on the Jensen. Thanks all.

jhb8426:
Yes, some of the CL ads are a real treat to read. I tend to think most of these are just ignorant of what they are trying to sell, but this one showing a kevlar in the water and a royalex hanging in the garage is a real hoot. Some of my favorites are the ones that "comes with oars." Of course they can't compare to the ones sitting in the back 40 full of 10 years worth of leaves."

Speaking of "oars", here's a listing you may enjoy:

https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/boa/d/18-foot-canoe/6546097356.html

Capsize: "The Wenonah does not appear to be kevlar reinforced. I don't believe kevlar was used in any canoe when that one was manufactured. I also would weigh the canoe before buying. I had a mid-1980's kevlar Jensen and it weighed in at 55 pounds. I find it hard to believe that a fiberglass canoe would be only 11 pounds heavier. That canoe is likely in the mid 70 pound range or heavier.


Finally, $500 is too much for this canoe, at least in Minnesota. If you look hard enough, you can find a used Royalex for that price. Royalex is far more durable and likely lighter than this canoe. I would pass on it. "

The Kevlar was used mostly in the stems in Wenonahs, and not visible under the gel coat. Wenonah described it as a "special nylon-Kevlar reinforced fiberglass", at least in the 1982 Wenonah catalog--I don't have anything before. Wear on my 1982 glass C1W shows some kevlar on the stems. That same catalog lists the glass 18' Jensen at 65 pounds. I had a wood-trimmed Sundowner (a bigger boat, and heavier trim than aluminum) of that era that was quite a bit lighter than my current (though old) 73 pound Clipper Whitewater III (an even bigger boat), so I'd guess that upper 50s to 60s is probably correct. It will still be lighter than a Roylalex layup, but could be fragile if stored improperly.