I've been watching a whole lot of Joe Robinet's bushcraft channel on YouTube and he has a Swift Adirondack Pack 13.6 solo pack boat. He, and the people he sometimes trips with, move every day, and cover a lot of ground each day. They seem to do a lot of portaging in Canada's Algonquin park which makes the weight and profile of the boat a definite concern. The 13.6 only weighs 26lbs with the Kevlar trim, and 24lbs with the Carbon Fiber trim. This is extremely appealing to me, having only used heavy aluminum tandems in the past.

I plan to get outdoors a lot more, and want to invest in a great solo canoe (possibly a smaller tandem) for future use, after I've had the chance to use a few and maybe do a trip with a rented one. I haven't seen any pack boats for rent. Anyway, I'm not going to drop 3 grand until I'm sure I've found the right thing for me and that I'll get good use out of it. I like the lower seat (in theory, haven't paddled one yet) and open design like a canoe, with the speed and maneuverability more reminiscent of a kayak. A lot of pack boats, especially the aforementioned Swift, are simple and effective, no fancy features for fishing or anything. They seem very easy to control, very stable due to the lower center of gravity, and fairly quick. Note that I don't plan on racing, I just want to be able to cover a lot of ground early in a trip to get away from people, and to get out quickly as well if I end up camping a little further from my exit point than would be ideal.

Do you think a pack boat is right for me? Has anyone paddled a Swift Adirondack Pack? I really like the look of them and they seem to be well-made. If there might be a better alternative, I would love to hear it! I did check out the Canak and Fusion from Wenonah but I feel like both leave something to be desired. Not sure what it is, maybe a combination of weight and looks.

Thanks for reading and any feedback/criticism you have!

I was intrigued by these since seeing and lifting a Savage River Wee Lassie at Canoecopia several years ago. 12 pounds. I look forward to comments.

Hopefully, LindenTree3 will comment and offer an opinion on his Alley.

I am in the same boat! Haha.

I am a little ahead of you since i already bought the canoes. I bought a 20 lb spitfire and a 18 lb hornbeck for the wife. Both are used canoes bought for less the 50% of new price, with the hornbeck has never been wet, and original tape tags still on the canoe. Both are carbon fiber. They were a little harder to find used then the normal solo canoes.

We bought them this year, so as of yet have never paddled them. Summer is coming!

Anyway, the major decision was we are going to do some bwca trips and did not want to carry our royalex river canoes around. I am 61 and she is 51. We want to keep the weight to minumum possible for portaging. I agree on the low center of gravity being stable, but have yet to learn the experience of getting in and out of that low seat with creaky older bones and not bending as well as i used to. That may be a concern that will help decide to keep or sell the pack canoes. If that is a wall we hit, i can go back to my prism that is 29 lb. If in ohio,,stop by and paddle one. We are 2 miles from lake water.

The pack canoes are sure smaller then our other canoes, so packs may be different then a large canoe would take. We have been advised that kayak paddles will be needed for them also.

The mode of carry is advertised differently too. Adirondack type is just place canoe gunwale on shoulder and go, instead of using a yoke. We will be experminting with that this summer. Some say it does not work, but they may have tried it with a heavier canoe.

I wouldn't buy one without trying a few, Flynn, especially if your frame of reference is an aluminum tandem - a far different beast. I would suggest you rent a Northstar Magic or Northwind (or similar), which are readily available. The Magic will likely be faster than the Swift pack boat and is only a couple pounds heavier. It does have the traditional canoe seat though. I'm not sure just how important speed is to you, but the Placid Rapidfire would be another one for you to look at as a comparison to the Swift. Other very fast light canoes are the Savage River ones, although I don't think the Wee Lassie's are designed for flatwater tripping nor are they fast, but they are lightweight (and small)!

I am a fan of less than the large solo boats. I paddle a 15’ Rapidfire and love it. I don’t think a wee Lassie would work for me. I weigh 190 and I have 65 LB of gear. With that much of a load I believe the Wee Lassie would not perform well. I would suggest weighing everything that you will want in the boat and look for a boat that will perform well with that load.

I have been looking closer at Hornbeck Boats and I really like the look of their 13' Classic with the Kevlar/Carbon hybrid "Matrix" skin. I called them today to talk about whether the Classic (29.5" beam) or New Tricks (25.5" beam) would be right for me. I have read a good bit about the New Tricks and most paddlers seem to prefer them. However, Josh at Hornbeck was super helpful and after considering my desire for a stable boat given the dynamic nature of the BWCA lakes and weather, and wanting to fish out of it, he agrees that the 13 Classic makes more sense than the 14 New Tricks, despite him liking the New Tricks more. Josh said he will be at Canoecopia but not with a booth or anything, he is just attending, and to look for him in a Hornbeck hat.

I won't be making a purchase until after Canoecopia at the very least, but I feel good about the Hornbeck boats after reading and watching everything I can get my hands on. They are also 2/3 the cost of a Swift Adirondack Pack 13'6" at around $2000 for the 13'.

Swift does have 2 new pack boats though, the Cruiser series, in a 12'6" and 16'8", with what appears to be a 14'8" coming at Canoecopia. They are priced about the same as the Adirondack pack at $3200 USD for the 12'6". And yes that's right, Swift will be at Canoecopia this year! It will be interesting to see if they offer any deals.

MagicPaddler: "I am a fan of less than the large solo boats. I paddle a 15’ Rapidfire and love it. I don’t think a wee Lassie would work for me. I weigh 190 and I have 65 LB of gear. With that much of a load I believe the Wee Lassie would not perform well. I would suggest weighing everything that you will want in the boat and look for a boat that will perform well with that load. "

Not to hijack, but since I can assume you also have a NS Magic, I'd be very curious to hear your comparisons between the Rapidfire and the Magic, which are two of three finalists for my next solo purchase...

sns: "

MagicPaddler: "I am a fan of less than the large solo boats. I paddle a 15’ Rapidfire and love it. I don’t think a wee Lassie would work for me. I weigh 190 and I have 65 LB of gear. With that much of a load I believe the Wee Lassie would not perform well. I would suggest weighing everything that you will want in the boat and look for a boat that will perform well with that load. "

Not to hijack, but since I can assume you also have a NS Magic, I'd be very curious to hear your comparisons between the Rapidfire and the Magic, which are two of three finalists for my next solo purchase..."

I do have both a Magic and a Rapidfire. Both fine boats. The Rapidfire has the medium height seat which is lower than the Magic seat. The lower seat makes the Rapidfire the more stable canoe for me. My tripping load is about 65 LB. gear + 190 LB. I find the Rapidfire handles that ok but would not want very much more in it. The magic will handle much more weight is easier to get into and out of. With my tripping load the Rapidfire is easier to keep up with the tandems in my group.

mjmkjun: "Hopefully, LindenTree3 will comment and offer an opinion on his Alley. "

They are talking about hard sided canoes, I know its confusing.
Pakboats are folding canoes, I made the mistake before on another thread, thinking they were talking about folding canoes.

I have heard a completely different definition of pack canoe. I heard the phrase originated in the Adirondack’s for a boat that could be easily carried into small ponds. Placid calls their Spitfire a pack canoe.
https://rapidmedia.com/canoeroots/categories/339-i-shrunk-the-canoe

Yes, both definitions are correct.

MagicPaddler:
I do have both a Magic and a Rapidfire. Both fine boats. The Rapidfire has the medium height seat which is lower than the Magic seat. The lower seat makes the Rapidfire the more stable canoe for me. My tripping load is about 65 LB. gear + 190 LB. I find the Rapidfire handles that ok but would not want very much more in it. The magic will handle much more weight is easier to get into and out of. With my tripping load the Rapidfire is easier to keep up with the tandems in my group."

Thank you! I am 5' 11" & 170, solo gear is about 35 lb. But if the 48lb dog goes, she needs another 10 lbs of food/gear...so I end up perhaps 10-15 lbs heavier than your load. Too much for a Rapidfire? I have paddled a magic and liked it better than my Northwind Solo. Have not paddled a Rapidfire.

Sns
It is not a hard line that if you are over xxx pounds. It is an area. I have read where others carry larger loads than I do. When I add an extra 20 LB I notice a decrease in ease of paddling and turning. Paddling.com lists it max load as 400LBs. I have had about 400 LB (2 People) for a couple hundred yards. It floated.

Not a pack boat but I'm going from a Northwind Solo to a Northstar Firebird( 2 feet shorter) this year. I only have room for 1 solo boat so I choose a boat that's going a Gas on my local stuff and will get maybe 10 days in the BW. I pack very light.

I have a Swift Prospector 14 ft pack boat that I have been using for a year. Not canoe tripping but just day trips for fishing when car camping. The Prospector is similar to the Adirondack, just a few inches wider which makes it more stable for fishing. I like it a lot, and in the future I may try canoe camping. I am going to the Gunflint Trail in May but still just car camping and taking day trips into the BW. The only small criticism I would have is that the carbon fiber gunnels and thwarts make it somewhat problematic to customize such as adding anchor tie points, rod holders, sonar units, etc. I am currently working out the details which is giving me something to do in the winter months. I use a kayak paddle but considering trying a beavertail paddle because it would stow easier when fishing, but it would be slower.

My Prospector is a pack boat, with the seat mounted on the bottom of the canoe. It's listed on the Swift website. I will attempt to post a link (first time). Prospector Pack Canoe
As you can see, the extra width gives it a lot higher cargo weight rating than the other pack boats of similar length.

Tomcat: "Thanks JonSolo, that's the boat I am interested in but with the high mounted seat. "

I'd be wary of a seat placed too high; some of these boats are really meant to have a low seat, and with a 28" beam on the Prospector 14 Pack, I think it would be a little tippy if you had a normal height canoe seat.

Swift just posted an overview of their new Cruiser pack boat series here! The 14'8" will probably be a slick boat, but at 1.5x the price of a 13' Hornbeck Classic, it's a really tough sell. The increased tumblehome and new back strap makes it look a lot like a Placid Spitfire. Like, a LOT like a Spitfire. Priced about the same too!

The seat looks more comfortable then my spitfire.

Tomcat: "I would like to test paddle a Swift Prospector 14. I prefer a single blade paddle and the kneeling position.


Swift Prospector 14 "

I would also like to, beautiful boat! Love the tumblehome on it.

And let's not forget, children, the loonie is lagging against the greenback at the moment (although not quite as much as it did very recently):

CAD vs. USD

gravelroad: "And let's not forget, children, the loonie is lagging against the greenback at the moment (although not quite as much as it did very recently):


CAD vs. USD "

Swift updated their prices in 2019; in 2018 the CAD and USD price were the same. The only problem is, how can I get the CAD price? $3400CAD for the 14'8 Cruiser comes out to $2558USD, but the "US price" for the Cruiser is $3200USD. I don't reaaaally wanna drive up to Thunder Bay and back to get $650USD off, but I suppose the cost of gas (700 mi round trip from Minneapolis, I'll assume 350mi/tank based on my car) would only be 2-3 tanks, assuming $40USD each, so $120. That's probably cheaper than shipping from Rutabaga, which would have the US price. So, $2680 to drive up to Thunder Bay and buy it (assuming no sales tax), or $3200 + ~$80 for gas to Rutabaga and back. Looks like it is about a $600USD savings just by driving up to Canada. But that's only if they give you the CAD price on the spot and let you charge it. I'm sure some CC unit conversion fees would reduce the savings a bit, but that $600 is like an entire trip to the BWCA for a week WITH a canoe rental. Not a bad proposition IF Swift will sell you the boat at Canadian prices and IF you have 14 hours to drive 350 miles north, test paddle it, buy it, and drive 350 miles home (long day but I can imagine worse things).

For comparison, a 13' Hornbeck Classic with Matrix exterior is $2000, and when I called, they quoted me shipping (in a crate) and it was something like $300 to ship it here (and no one sells them locally so you gotta drive to New York which would cost the same in gas as it would to ship it). At that point, the Hornbeck is only ~$400 cheaper than the Swift (with Canadian pricing).

Someone should call Swift and ask about Canadian pricing for US customers that drive up to Thunder Bay to buy the boat in person. :)

FYI, there is an opportunity to save 10% coming up at Canoecopia, if you can get to Madison. It would take two trips, one to go to the show and order the boat; and another one about a month later to pick it up when Swift delivers the orders to Rutabaga. That's what I did a year ago. The 10% off applies not only to the boat but also any extras, such as the skid plates which I bought. Swift brings a lot of boats to the show so you can probably at least sit in the boat you want but you wouldn't be able to take it for a test drive.

JonSolo: "FYI, there is an opportunity to save 10% coming up at Canoecopia, if you can get to Madison. It would take two trips, one to go to the show and order the boat; and another one about a month later to pick it up when Swift delivers the orders to Rutabaga. That's what I did a year ago. The 10% off applies not only to the boat but also any extras, such as the skid plates which I bought. Swift brings a lot of boats to the show so you can probably at least sit in the boat you want but you wouldn't be able to take it for a test drive. "

Hmm... 10% would mean $320 off from Rutabaga. BUT, I just realized, I forgot to account for sales tax (not sure if Rutabaga has to charge it for Minnesotans but I'd probably lean toward yes due to the amount of business they likely do with Minnesotan citizens - over $100k/yr I think, to any state, and they are legally required to charge sales tax for that state. Sales tax on a $3000 boat is gonna completely wipe out that discount, but it would be more expensive without it, so, yeah. If they don't charge sales tax up in Canada and will sell it to you at the Canadian price, that seems like the better deal to me. Especially since you don't have to drive to Madison twice, which is now the same amount of gas expense as driving to Thunder Bay.

flynn: "BUT, I just realized, I forgot to account for sales tax (not sure if Rutabaga has to charge it for Minnesotans but I'd probably lean toward yes due to the amount of business they likely do with Minnesotan citizens - over $100k/yr I think, to any state, and they are legally required to charge sales tax for that state."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of that matters. When you go to register your canoe in Minnesota (assuming you are a MN resident and are required to), the DNR will check for proof of sales and use tax paid. If you didn't pay the sales tax (really a use tax now), then you have to pay it before they will give you a boat license.

THEGrandRapids: "

flynn: "BUT, I just realized, I forgot to account for sales tax (not sure if Rutabaga has to charge it for Minnesotans but I'd probably lean toward yes due to the amount of business they likely do with Minnesotan citizens - over $100k/yr I think, to any state, and they are legally required to charge sales tax for that state."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of that matters. When you go to register your canoe in Minnesota (assuming you are a MN resident and are required to), the DNR will check for proof of sales and use tax paid. If you didn't pay the sales tax (really a use tax now), then you have to pay it before they will give you a boat license. "

.....you're kidding me right?

I would think there would be some sort of duty charges when crossing the border from Canada to the US. I don't know how much it is, but when I cross back into the US from Canada they ask me about what I bought there. I think the threshold is $800, below that amount is duty free, but a canoe would be well above the limit.

Oder it now from Rutabaga and ask for the Canoecopia discount. Swift might have it ready by then

JonSolo: "I would think there would be some sort of duty charges when crossing the border from Canada to the US. I don't know how much it is, but when I cross back into the US from Canada they ask me about what I bought there. I think the threshold is $800, below that amount is duty free, but a canoe would be well above the limit."

Man, if you had to pay duty AND sales tax, that would really sting. Basically kills any sort of savings you'd get by buying it up there.

Also the sales/use tax thing is correct from what I can see. Jeez. I wasn't really thinking of buying a boat soon but tax adds a significant amount of money. It's the difference between getting a nice $200 kayak paddle and a really nice $400 kayak paddle.

flynn: "

THEGrandRapids: "

flynn: "BUT, I just realized, I forgot to account for sales tax (not sure if Rutabaga has to charge it for Minnesotans but I'd probably lean toward yes due to the amount of business they likely do with Minnesotan citizens - over $100k/yr I think, to any state, and they are legally required to charge sales tax for that state."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of that matters. When you go to register your canoe in Minnesota (assuming you are a MN resident and are required to), the DNR will check for proof of sales and use tax paid. If you didn't pay the sales tax (really a use tax now), then you have to pay it before they will give you a boat license. "

.....you're kidding me right?"

No. Technically you owe a use tax and all goods purchased outside the state... but practically no one does, except when they can somehow figure it out- which would be the case here.

From the MN watercraft website : When you register your boat for the first time, know its length, manufacturer, type of hull material (wood, metal, or plastic), type of propulsion, model, year, serial or hull identification number (HIN) and have a sales receipt that shows you have paid the sales tax.

Do what the tax-hating rich would do. Find a resident of the Great White North who will buy one and lease it to you. You could pay a "deposit" on the lease at the beginning. Just remember to paddle or haul your "leased" boat back across the border after each time it's in MN for 90 days.

I think there's a law firm in Panama that could set all this up for you. ;-)

There is no duty on a canoe. I crossed with my new souris river this past fall.

US Customs Importing Boat

Rates of Duty: Pleasure boats are generally dutiable when imported into the United States. The following duty rates apply to boats imported for recreational purposes:

-Sailboats and motorboats other than outboard motorboats: 1.5 percent

-Outboard motorboats: 1 percent

-Inflatable vessels: 2.4 percent

-Canoes: Free of duty

-Rowboats/other vessels not designed for use with motors or sails: 2.7 percent

order it online, pay the bill, and have it delivered. sanity is priceless....

nooneuno: "order it online, pay the bill, and have it delivered. sanity is priceless...."

I agree.... but a road trip up the north shore to thunderbay is also priceless sanity...well at least once you get through Duluth. I enjoyed my trip to pick up a canoe. Granted I didn't compute calculus to figure out the price. (BTW- Souris makes US residents pay in US dollars- so no advantage of exchange rates)

THEGrandRapids: "There is no duty on a canoe. I crossed with my new souris river this past fall.


US Customs Importing Boat

Rates of Duty: Pleasure boats are generally dutiable when imported into the United States. The following duty rates apply to boats imported for recreational purposes:

-Sailboats and motorboats other than outboard motorboats: 1.5 percent

-Outboard motorboats: 1 percent

-Inflatable vessels: 2.4 percent

-Canoes: Free of duty

-Rowboats/other vessels not designed for use with motors or sails: 2.7 percent"

Did you pay the Canadian price? Live in a state without registration and pay CA$. Nice deal.

nooneuno: "order it online, pay the bill, and have it delivered. sanity is priceless...."

Yup did kind of the same but ordered it over the phone and having it delivered. No sales tax that way. The delivery charge is about $60 less than the sales tax would have been.

Hi Blatz. New member here with questions about your Firebird. Not sure if its appropriate to jump into the conversation or not. Im looking at the Firebird heavily and could really use some advice on the boat. Is there a way to send private messages on this forum?

Also veering, I think there is the opportunity to try out pack boats at Adirondack Paddlefest in May. It seems that selling canoes (and kayaks and sup) is central with lots to try out.

Paddlefest

4Miles: "Hi Blatz. New member here with questions about your Firebird. Not sure if its appropriate to jump into the conversation or not. Im looking at the Firebird heavily and could really use some advice on the boat. Is there a way to send private messages on this forum?
"

I have a FlashFire. The FB looks very similar : a little wider and longer but not much
I have a Wild Fire too and the FB is about in the middle between them.
If you want a FreeStyle boat it would be great.. It would not be my first choice for a tripper as with symmetrical and considerable rocker it would be a real chore to keep from broaching in a tail wind.

yellowcanoe: "

4Miles: "Hi Blatz. New member here with questions about your Firebird. Not sure if its appropriate to jump into the conversation or not. Im looking at the Firebird heavily and could really use some advice on the boat. Is there a way to send private messages on this forum?
"

I have a FlashFire. The FB looks very similar : a little wider and longer but not much
I have a Wild Fire too and the FB is about in the middle between them.
If you want a FreeStyle boat it would be great.. It would not be my first choice for a tripper as with symmetrical and considerable rocker it would be a real chore to keep from broaching in a tail wind."

Would Trillium with differential rocker be better in that regard?

4Miles: "Is there a way to send private messages on this forum?
"

If people share their e-mail in profile settings then you can hover over the envelope symbol and their e-mail will display on the bottom left of the screen, but no private messages.

flynn: "Do you think a pack boat is right for me? Has anyone paddled a Swift Adirondack Pack? I really like the look of them and they seem to be well-made. If there might be a better alternative, I would love to hear it! I did check out the Canak and Fusion from Wenonah but I feel like both leave something to be desired. Not sure what it is, maybe a combination of weight and looks.

Thanks for reading and any feedback/criticism you have!"

Flynn,
Did you end up making a decision? I purchased a Swift Pack 13.6 that you are welcome to paddle and test out if that would be helpful.

I recently picked up a Swift Prospector 14. The seat can be put in either a low position or high position so can be paddled sitting down low like a pack boat if wanted or a traditional canoe position. Its listed as weighting 28 pounds in the Kevlar fusion which is what I got. Its slightly longer and wider than the canoe Joe paddles which I needed since I am a bit heavier at 265 pounds.

THEGrandRapids: "

flynn: "BUT, I just realized, I forgot to account for sales tax (not sure if Rutabaga has to charge it for Minnesotans but I'd probably lean toward yes due to the amount of business they likely do with Minnesotan citizens - over $100k/yr I think, to any state, and they are legally required to charge sales tax for that state."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of that matters. When you go to register your canoe in Minnesota (assuming you are a MN resident and are required to), the DNR will check for proof of sales and use tax paid. If you didn't pay the sales tax (really a use tax now), then you have to pay it before they will give you a boat license. "

This is not accurate information. The DNR has noting to do with registering a canoe in MN; it gets registered at the DMV-same place you get your auto license. I have purchased numerous boats outside of MN-used and new-and have registered them at the DMV and I have never paid a sales tax nor been asked about it.

When you register your boat for the first time, know its length, manufacturer, type of hull material (wood, metal, or plastic), type of propulsion, model, year, serial or hull identification number (HIN) and have a sales receipt that shows you have paid the sales tax.
Watercraft Registration

singlebladecanoe: "I recently picked up a Swift Prospector 14. The seat can be put in either a low position or high position so can be paddled sitting down low like a pack boat if wanted or a traditional canoe position. Its listed as weighting 28 pounds in the Kevlar fusion which is what I got. Its slightly longer and wider than the canoe Joe paddles which I needed since I am a bit heavier at 265 pounds. "

Wish there was somewhere in MN that carried Swift boats.