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cburton103
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04/06/2018 10:35PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I started going to the boundary waters almost ten years ago now. My first four trips were to the bwcaw, and the last four (soon to be five) have all been to Quetico. At this point, I can't really imagine going back to the bwcaw due to the heavier crowds and less stellar fishing.

I've explored most of the southern portion of Quetico. I'll have hit 80-90% of named lakes in the southern half within my next 2-3 trips. After this (or sooner), I plan to begin trying some northern entries.

My question is, what do I do after that? I love exploring new water. Even more than that, I love great fishing joined by great solitude. I've researched a lot. Wabakimi, Woodland Caribou, and a few spots in Alaska really stick out. Then there are some big river trips that have caught my interest (Class II whitewater is about as much as I care to take on in a canoe at this point). I've done the Pecos River in West Texas coming up on four times, which is a great time. I'd love to canoe portions of the Green River through Utah and portions of the Columbia River.

Have any of you explored outside of the BWCAW/Quetico and returned in earnest to Quetico tripping? What brought you back? Smallmouth bass? More rugged topography than the other Ontario Provincial Parks?
 
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dentondoc
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04/06/2018 11:38PM  
I think you'll like the northern entries. When you drive around to the northern side, you can actually drive (and park) near (or VERY near) a lake were you can enter Quetico (Beaverhouse, Nym, French Lakes). These are not actual entry points, but rather one lake short of EP lakes. You will find somewhat fewer people on the north side (hence the lower camping fees on that side) and there are several routes that help to disperse people that enter on the north side.

I think the natural progression from there is to Woodland Caribou Provincial Park. It is roughly the same size as Quetico, but sees less than 1000 paddlers per year. So if you establishing a "route less traveled," it is quite possible to have substantial solitude. The terrain here is somewhat flatter than Quetico and the tree species are predominately jack pine and black spruce. So for eye-popping scenery, Quetico is a notch above. (BTW: This is generally true the further north you go ... flatter, less variation in foliage.) WCPP does have the "big four" fish species, although you will find smallies only in a few areas (e.g., in the Bloodvein river system, on and around Sabourin Lake). In addition, it is not uncommon for walleye and lake trout not to be in the same drainage/flowage systems. So in some areas, you will find lakers, but not eyes and vice versa. But regardless of where species are found, you will find some difficulty in keeping them off your line. (Its not so much fishing as catching in these waters.) Several of my best-ever walleye fishing days have been in WCPP. In addition, my best ever trip for boating 40"+ pike was in WCPP. Campsites are plentiful, but depending on what resource you use to ID them, it can be a hit and miss affair. Many are small, not supporting larger groups, but you get a special feeling when you (frequently) wind up on a campsite with a thumb-sized sappling growing out of the middle of the fire ring or having to trim waist-high grass from a fire ring before you use it. I've pitched my tent on quite a few nights on a moss bed that hadn't seen the footprint of man in over a decade. The portages are, IMHO, somewhat shorter than in Quetico, and ones that are strewn with ankle breaking boulders are less frequent. The downside is that there are still private cabins and lodges operating in some areas (with accompanying motor traffic). These can be avoided with a little planning, but you will likely have more float plane overflights (at a lower altitude) than you'd likely encounter in Quetico.

Certainly there is much more that I could say, but I'm only attempting to give you something of the flavor of the place ... I've been to WCPP 5 times (a couple as pure solos) since 2009 ... some fly-ins, some getting shuttled to an EP, some driving myself to an EP (including one entry from the Manitoba side of the park). I could go back again, of course.

dd


MReid
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04/07/2018 11:04AM  
I'm mostly a western paddler, with one trip to Quetico (last fall, solo), the Allagash 40 years ago, and some shorter southeastern trips primarily in swamplands 30 years ago. I've paddled the Green in Utah (highly recommended),and trips in Alaska, Washington and British Columbia. In paddling Quetico last fall, what struck me was the flatness (I'm used to paddling in mountain lakes and rivers). It was an amazing place to paddle, with all the lakes everywhere, and a ways to connect them all if you want. You don't get that out west--longer trips require a river system, and western lakes are generally much, much larger, and aren't easily tied together. What western paddling does have is a diversity of scenery--sandstone canyons of the Green River, glaciated peaks of Washington/British Columbia/Alaska.

For me, paddling solo (and with a flatwater racing background), Quetico is a great place for extended trips without the inherent risk associated with paddling rivers solo, and without the added complications of river shuttles. I just wish it wasn't so damned far away (1100 miles to Atikokan!).
dentondoc
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04/07/2018 12:42PM  
MReid: I just wish it wasn't so damned far away (1100 miles to Atikokan!)."


Believe me, I feel your pain! A one-way drive to Atikokan for me is over 1500 miles. If I happen to be going to Red Lake (WCPP), its over 1700.

Yes! I've driven it solo, but in more recent years I've taken to flying up and back.

dd
cburton103
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04/07/2018 04:31PM  
Denton doc - thanks for the reply! I’m from Houston, so my drive is similar to yours, assuming you’re in Denton, Texas. I probably prefer driving, but I fly so I can get more time on the water given the same amount of time away from family and work.

We primarily go to Quetico for fishing and solitude. Beauty is a side bonus. We’d really like to take an awesome walleye fishing trip. Sounds like WCPP has that potential.

Any route recommendations? Fly ins/outs and other types of shuttles are all options. And is the first part of June for walleye about ideal in wcpp as well?
cburton103
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04/07/2018 04:39PM  
MReid, thanks for the reply!

Any two or three week or so long trips stick out to you? A couple i’ve looked at are the Green River in Utah and then a fly in trip to the Kisaralik River in southwestern Alaska. Some Washington or BC suggestions would be great as well! Nothing with too big of water. Class I and II in an open canoe is my style.
carmike
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04/07/2018 04:47PM  
I have spent lots of time in WCPP and Wabakimi, and I keep coming back to the Q. It's easy to get to (about four hours to Ely for me, six with paddling to Prairie Portage), and with a little bit of sweat, I can (usually) find all the isolation I need.

Is it as isolated as WCPP or Wab? Nope, not really even close. But it's more than enough for me, given the extra expense and time associated with accessing the other parks. I don't have a real job, but most of my tripping partners do, so we're usually happy to spend more time in the woods and less in the car. Plus, there's still plenty of the Q that I've not explored, so there are a lot of blank spots on my map.

I also have very little interest in catching walleyes, so the spectacular 'eye fishing elsewhere isn't a draw. The high numbers of supremely large pike certainly are, however...but there are still enough of them swimming around the Q to keep me occupied.
MReid
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04/07/2018 05:56PM  
cburton103: "MReid, thanks for the reply!


Any two or three week or so long trips stick out to you? A couple i’ve looked at are the Green River in Utah and then a fly in trip to the Kisaralik River in southwestern Alaska. Some Washington or BC suggestions would be great as well! Nothing with too big of water. Class I and II in an open canoe is my style."


I spent a leisurely 11 days on the Green from Green River to the confluence, then a shuttle up the Colorado. Lots of good hiking--Anasazi ruins, dino tracks, etc.

For Alaska, I'd done short (3-4 day) trips in Southcentral--Copper River, Tangle Lakes, Delta River, Gulkana River. Trips I wanted to do, but didn't have time, was from the Nizina Glacier in Wrangell-St. Elias NP all the way to the coast (Chitina, Copper Rivers) to Cordova. I've flown the area, but never got a boat in, despite several tries with unreliable partners. It's a big water trip--the Copper River is impressive. A friend did the Noatak River last summer--something to look in to--I think it was 30+ days. Wood-Tickchik State Park in Southwest sure has an appeal. I never had time for big trips.

A wonderful low-key trip in B.C. is Bowron Lakes Provincial Park in central B.C. it's a 75 mile (including 6 miles of portaging) loop that starts and ends at your truck. It's pretty popular, but for good reason. Scenery is spectacular, and paddling is really enjoyable--big mountain lakes, small lakes, casual river, sandy beaches, etc. Not too far away is Wells Gray Provincial park--I had hoped to paddle there last summer, but most of B.C. parks were closed due to fires.

I haven't paddled many rivers out west, since I don't have partners.
dentondoc
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04/07/2018 06:11PM  
This message has had HTML content edited out of it.
cburton103: "Denton doc - thanks for the reply! I’m from Houston, so my drive is similar to yours, assuming you’re in Denton, Texas. I probably prefer driving, but I fly so I can get more time on the water given the same amount of time away from family and work.

Any route recommendations? Fly ins/outs and other types of shuttles are all options. And is the first part of June for walleye about ideal in wcpp as well?"


I DID live in Denton for a long time, but I'm now closer to you ... live just north of Austin.

WCPP has several options for entry. Most services supported by Ontario Parks are out of Red Lake (and that is where you'll find outfitters with the most knowledge of the park. On the south/east side of the park, there are "drive to" entries at Leano, Onnie, Johnson and Lund lakes. The roads up there are pretty rough and it's generally recommended that you have 4-wheel drive/high clearance to drive to these spots. The outfitters provide shuttle services, if desired, and Red Lake Outfitters also offers a tow boat service from Red Lake to the portage into Douglas Lake. If you go to the western side of the park and enter from Manitoba, you can drive to Beresford Lake or Wallace lake and paddle into the park from Manitoba. Luckily the park staff is open to doing all permitting and camping fees by phone/mail/email ... obviously no Ontario Parks services in Manitoba. Fly-in/fly-out options are available from both Red Lake and in a couple of spots in Manitoba. WCPP doesn't have the same restrictions as Quetico, which translates into "if its big enough to safely land on, we'll take you there." But be prepared to step out of the plan on to a pontoon and load your gear and yourself to paddle to shore. Many spots don't have suitable shoreline for a float plane to pull up.

Route? There is a spiderweb of routes. Its basically a "what floats your boat" kind of choice.

If you decide you want to go there, give me a shout and I can provide information routes that you might want to consider.

Finally, if you want to go COMPLETELY off grid, you might Opasquia Provincial Park. It's 185 air miles north of Red Lake and the ONLY way to get there is to fly. I'd say that you would be guaranteed solitude. I was in a party of 3 on a trip there a few years back and we saw no one for the 14 days of our trip. Its not exactly busy ... only 4 people paddled the park that year (and its another Quetico sized park, but classified as "non-operating" ... park staff rarely go there!)

dd
cburton103
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04/07/2018 08:54PM  
Carmike,

Thanks for chiming in as well. There aren't any walleye anywhere near where I live, so that's part of the draw. Unlike TGO, I think they rarely fight anywhere near as well as smallmouth or pike. We catch enough when we go to Quetico, but it would be fun to have a trip that highlights walleye fishing at some point as well. Most of our walleye have been caught trolling or fishing falls. I haven't caught hardly any walleye jigging since I stopped going to the BWCA and using leeches.

I agree with the sentiment that the Q is enough solitude. Anything more is probably just asking for a park to not be able to fund itself from park revenue, not to mention having a better chance at fairly well maintained portages if enough people are using them. Last year we only saw one group in about four days on the water from the Roland Chain/Argo through Cone/Elk/Hurn/Ted and out through Robinson and Kett. That's great in my book.
04/08/2018 07:58AM  
dentondoc: "Finally, if you want to go COMPLETELY off grid, you might Opasquia Provincial Park. It's 185 air miles north of Red Lake and the ONLY way to get there is to fly. I'd say that you would be guaranteed solitude. I was in a party of 3 on a trip there a few years back and we saw no one for the 14 days of our trip. Its not exactly busy ... only 4 people paddled the park that year (and its another Quetico sized park, but classified as "non-operating" ... park staff rarely go there!)
dd"


Did any of you guys write a trip report for this one? I remember a funny story about mosquitos.




04/08/2018 08:03AM  
cburton103: "Carmike,

I agree with the sentiment that the Q is enough solitude. Anything more is probably just asking for a park to not be able to fund itself from park revenue, not to mention having a better chance at fairly well maintained portages if enough people are using them. "


I agree. Once you get away from the entries (in September anyway) there are very little other people. I appreciate that I've never experienced blowdown on a portage in August or September either. May or early June might be a different story but Quetico does a great job of keeping the trails open.

I want to get to WCCP and Wabakimi but wouldn't expect those portages to be quite as nice as far as blowdown is concerned. I'm looking forward to that adventure though.

carmike
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04/08/2018 08:58AM  
cburton103: "There aren't any walleye anywhere near where I live, so that's part of the draw. Unlike TGO, I think they rarely fight anywhere near as well as smallmouth or pike. We catch enough when we go to Quetico, but it would be fun to have a trip that highlights walleye fishing at some point as well. Most of our walleye have been caught trolling or fishing falls. I haven't caught hardly any walleye jigging since I stopped going to the BWCA and using leeches.
"


There's certainly nothing wrong with walleyes...I just live within a two hour drive of probably 5000 lakes, most of them full of eyeballs. I hear people like eating them, too. ;)
cburton103
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04/08/2018 10:04PM  
Wow, Opasquia looks pretty dang isolated. As you go further north do the fish tend to be smaller due to shorter and shorter growing seasons for plants and insects and shorter periods of time with warm enough water for the fish to fatten up? Perhaps fish can still grow to a large size, but it just takes them more years, and they live longer due to their slower metabolisms. Any thoughts? I wouldn't be as interested in going further and further north if the fish become significantly smaller.

And thanks for your offer on WCPP. I'll throw out a line in a few years when I begin planning a trip!
dentondoc
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04/08/2018 11:07PM  
TomT: "Did any of you guys write a trip report for this one? I remember a funny story about mosquitos. "

You might rattle Jimbo's cage. He wrote a story for BWJ, but I don't think it ever got published.

dd
dentondoc
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04/08/2018 11:10PM  
cburton103: "Wow, Opasquia looks pretty dang isolated. As you go further north do the fish tend to be smaller due to shorter and shorter growing seasons for plants and insects and shorter periods of time with warm enough water for the fish to fatten up? Perhaps fish can still grow to a large size, but it just takes them more years, and they live longer due to their slower metabolisms. Any thoughts? I wouldn't be as interested in going further and further north if the fish become significantly smaller.

And thanks for your offer on WCPP. I'll throw out a line in a few years when I begin planning a trip!"

Yep. OPP is a fair piece up there. (The park is fully north of the southern tip of Hudson Bay). It is fairly flat except for some very significant glacial moraines that dot the landscape. And YES! It is isolated (I guess that was the point of going.) And part of our trip was for recon purposes, we were able to confirm the existence of a couple of "portages" that were only hinted at in any intel I could find.

The walleye were plentiful and we didn't catch anything that was smaller than would would be considered perfect eater size. We did catch some sizable walleye, but nothing huge. Pike were not specifically targeted very frequently, but you can find monster sized ones if you go looking for them.

We didn't catch any fish that appeared to be overly old ... all were in prime condition.

One thing that was something of a surprise ... hardwoods, including some significant stands of birch.

I'll be doing a Quetico trip with my OPP traveling companions (and a few others) this summer. We've already broached the idea of a return trip, so I'm guessing some of our fireside chats will be on that topic.

If you are interested in more details, shoot me an e-mail and I'll give you the link to the only outfitter operating in the area. They are primarily focused on their cabin fly-in operations (5 cabins spread over the entire park ... that's it, nothing else other than some First Nation fishing/hunting camps over the 1.5 million acre park). There web site has some vid's about their operation including several involving fishing.

dd
tumblehome
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04/09/2018 07:53AM  
I did a trip to St. Raphael PP last year. It's just west of Wabakimi and some of the waterways connect between the two. It too is a non-operating park and what I learned by that is there are essentially no wilderness regulations and no maintained portages. While this might sound exciting it also means getting from lake to lake is not easy and there are fly-in fishing camps with motor boats.

True, the farther north you travel, the flatter the terrain. White and red pine don't grow that far north and the whole place is essentially spruce. No big trees up there since fire keeps things in check.

As I traveled back from my trip I really noticed how 'tropical' it feels as you get closer to the US. Tree species are more abundant and larger. More vegetation variety. And warmer. Quetico is really visually more pleasing than the far north but they each have special characteristics that make each area unique and special.

Tom
04/09/2018 08:11AM  
dentondoc: "
TomT: "Did any of you guys write a trip report for this one? I remember a funny story about mosquitos. "

You might rattle Jimbo's cage. He wrote a story for BWJ, but I don't think it ever got published.
dd"


I knocked on Jimbo's door and he was kind to send me this. I hope the link works and doesn't get censored.

Opasquia Park Report

cburton103
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04/11/2018 11:23AM  
Thanks for sharing the link! Fun trip report to read.

Perhaps I'm a softy, but Quetico portages are tough enough for me. The thought of no portage maintenance is a bit of a turn off to some of these areas, as are the large burned swaths of WCPP. I'll still likely end up trying WCPP out for a longer trip or two in the future just to try it out since many here recommend it.
04/11/2018 06:47PM  
Yeah, I never actually read that trip report before. If it's not bad enough they don't maintain anything in the park but you basically have to rent canoes that are not exactly desirable for the job.

carmike
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04/12/2018 09:00AM  
Awesome trip report. Thank you for sharing.
dentondoc
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04/12/2018 09:46AM  
carmike: "Awesome trip report. Thank you for sharing. "

Next time you see Jimbo (Jim Carrier), who is a contributing editor to BWJ, you might let him know.

I see from the posts above that some might think going to places like Opasquia might be a "bridge too far." While all three individuals mention in the story are equipped with the "ain't gonna quit!" gene, two of the three were ALREADY above 65 when this trip took place. And, while the portages are not being maintained by the park staff, most of the portages are annually used by the First Nation in conjunction with there fishing and hunting activity ... and they are dragging aluminum boats over the portages. While you are incessantly stepping over "roller" logs laid horizontally across the trail, the trail is wide enough to accommodate their boats and over the flattest terrain in that area. Yes, we did have to whip out the saws a few times to clear away deadfall and other debris, but I've seen WAY worse conditions in both Quetico and WCPP. As recent as last season during my Quetico trip, my trusty saw was a constant companion on some portages and a few years ago, I was in WCPP the season immediately following their big "snowdown" event. Would you like to know what a portage looks like under 10 feet of densely packed debris?

After finishing the Opasquia trip, I can still remember saying "Well, that's an itch I don't have to scratch any longer!" However, there is currently a little guy sitting on my shoulder saying "Not so fast, bud!!!" Time will tell.

dd
dele
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04/12/2018 12:30PM  
Anybody in this thread paddled in La Verendrye Wildlife Reserve or other similar areas in Quebec? I'm moving to northeast, and anything in Quebec will be a much more manageable drive than getting back to the BWCA-Quetico area.
04/14/2018 07:24AM  
TomT: "
dentondoc: "
TomT: "Did any of you guys write a trip report for this one? I remember a funny story about mosquitos. "

You might rattle Jimbo's cage. He wrote a story for BWJ, but I don't think it ever got published.
dd"


I knocked on Jimbo's door and he was kind to send me this. I hope the link works and doesn't get censored.

Opasquia Park Report
"


Finally finished reading this. Yes, Jim can write a good report! I have to say it does sound appealing. But I would want my own canoe for sure. Hopefully in the near future there will be an easier way to access this park.

BTW, Jimbo left out his mosquito story. Something about pitching his lean to over caribou moss and later discovering the mosquitos came out from inside the moss and filled his shelter. Yikes..... Not good. :)



dentondoc
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04/14/2018 08:01AM  
TomT:" BTW, Jimbo left out his mosquito story. Something about pitching his lean to over caribou moss and later discovering the mosquitos came out from inside the moss and filled his shelter. Yikes..... Not good. :)"

Well, lets just say there was a tenter (me), a hammock hanger (MP) and a Lean 3 user on this trip. All things considered, I think I made the best choice. (Some campsites didn't offer many good tree choices for a hammock and there is a reasons that the Lean 3 comes with a floor!)

dd
cburton103
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04/14/2018 10:46PM  
I think it's awesome when people still backcountry camp well into their 60s, 70s and beyond. I remember meeting an 81 year old who was still built like an ox on the portage around Silver Falls in September of 2015. He had a heavy pack on and was carrying fishing rods in one hand and a paddle in the other. He was walking down a steep, wet, rocky area. I offered a hand, but he handled it more than fine without my help. The guy was pretty inspirational. Staying active and fit and some good help from genes thrown in too is a good recipe for a more satisfying life.
04/14/2018 10:55PM  
cburton103: "I think it's awesome when people still backcountry camp well into their 60s, 70s and beyond. "


Yeah, I remember meeting a couple who appeared to be at least 70 years old at a landing a few years ago. They seemed very happy and were just saying how great of a day it was. I remember they had a new lightweight northstar tandem and 3 medium sized packs. It was so cool to talk with them.

DD, stay in shape bro, I'd like to paddle in a group with you sometime. We'll go into Pierna. :)


dentondoc
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04/15/2018 12:20AM  
TomT: "
cburton103: "I think it's awesome when people still backcountry camp well into their 60s, 70s and beyond. "


Yeah, I remember meeting a couple who appeared to be at least 70 years old at a landing a few years ago. They seemed very happy and were just saying how great of a day it was. I remember they had a new lightweight northstar tandem and 3 medium sized packs. It was so cool to talk with them.

DD, stay in shape bro, I'd like to paddle in a group with you sometime. We'll go into Pierna. :)"

Seems like the personal goals come and go ... I had committed to continue to do backpacking trips in the Rockies until I was 60. (Checked that one off) Then I committed to continue to do canoe trips until I was 70. (Checked that one off)

Last year's final portages were the Kett portages out to Basswood. I'd done them a few years ago and I remembered laboring a bit ... even shuttling my gear in stages. Last year they were no problem ... even comparatively easy (IMHO) despite the pouring rain.

Maybe I can finish a trip that I wasn't able to complete a few years ago due to an adverse reaction to some medication I was taking. So, I might retry being dropped in a remote spot in the middle of WCPP (Irvine Lake) and paddling the Min-Jim route out in "pure solo mode" when I'm 75.

Hey! Ya gotta have goals!!!

dd
04/15/2018 07:52AM  
dentondoc: "
Maybe I can finish a trip that I wasn't able to complete a few years ago due to an adverse reaction to some medication I was taking. So, I might retry being dropped in a remote spot in the middle of WCPP (Irvine Lake) and paddling the Min-Jim route out in "pure solo mode" when I'm 75.
Hey! Ya gotta have goals!!!
dd"


I get that and hope you accomplish it. For me doing a pure solo doesn't have the attraction it had when I was younger (I'm 58). I really like the hybrid solo of having a "meet up" mid trip. Maybe traveling half the time solo and the rest with others.

Just when I get tired of myself I would meet someone or a group to camp and travel with. I would love to go for 3 weeks like this (with my dog) across Quetico.

And you mention having goals. There's this lake called Pierna just west of Sark and Keefer. I need to get there and stay for at least 3 nights. Maybe build a nice camp and just fish and explore the heck out of it. I want to do this in the next couple of years. I know it won't be easy but certainly doable.



cburton103
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04/15/2018 12:38PM  
dentondoc: "
TomT: "
cburton103: "I think it's awesome when people still backcountry camp well into their 60s, 70s and beyond. "



Yeah, I remember meeting a couple who appeared to be at least 70 years old at a landing a few years ago. They seemed very happy and were just saying how great of a day it was. I remember they had a new lightweight northstar tandem and 3 medium sized packs. It was so cool to talk with them.


DD, stay in shape bro, I'd like to paddle in a group with you sometime. We'll go into Pierna. :)"

Seems like the personal goals come and go ... I had committed to continue to do backpacking trips in the Rockies until I was 60. (Checked that one off) Then I committed to continue to do canoe trips until I was 70. (Checked that one off)


Last year's final portages were the Kett portages out to Basswood. I'd done them a few years ago and I remembered laboring a bit ... even shuttling my gear in stages. Last year they were no problem ... even comparatively easy (IMHO) despite the pouring rain."


That's awesome, dentondoc. I'm 30 and I have similar longevity goals for the outdoors - long time to get to them, but that's ok!

And that's one of the great things about having varied outdoor interests. Canoeing trips can be much less physically taxing for the seasons of life that don't allow more strenuous trips. I did a moderate version of the Wind River High Route this past September that it's hard to imagine doing past 65 or so, depending on health. But when we were at one of our deepest points in the range we still saw a guy going solo who must have been in his young sixties who just did an off trail pass. I also have a buddy from dental school who practices out in California who has an 82 year old patient that still does 3-4 week long backpacking trips in the Sierras every year, and mostly solo. Pretty cool.
cburton103
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04/15/2018 12:43PM  
TomT: "
dentondoc: "
Maybe I can finish a trip that I wasn't able to complete a few years ago due to an adverse reaction to some medication I was taking. So, I might retry being dropped in a remote spot in the middle of WCPP (Irvine Lake) and paddling the Min-Jim route out in "pure solo mode" when I'm 75.
Hey! Ya gotta have goals!!!
dd"


And you mention having goals. There's this lake called Pierna just west of Sark and Keefer. I need to get there and stay for at least 3 nights. Maybe build a nice camp and just fish and explore the heck out of it. I want to do this in the next couple of years. I know it won't be easy but certainly doable."


Out of curiosity, how do you plan to approach Pierna? Southwest from Gamblemaster? the northern creek out of Joyce? Pushing up the creek from Sark? Looks like a pretty big named lake and about as remote as they come! If you take a fishing rod I'd be interested to know the results!
04/15/2018 02:12PM  
cburton103: "
Out of curiosity, how do you plan to approach Pierna? Southwest from Gamblemaster? the northern creek out of Joyce? Pushing up the creek from Sark? Looks like a pretty big named lake and about as remote as they come! If you take a fishing rod I'd be interested to know the results!"


Tim Mead wrote a book called Quetico Adventures. In July 1996 he and 3 others went from Sark to Pierna. They went into the 2 potholes to the south west then bushwhacked west into that creek. Very tough going through abandoned beaver marshes but they made Pierna by 2:00. You'll have to buy the book to see what he says about the lake. :)



carmike
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04/16/2018 10:32PM  
I was thinking about that book and how much I wanted to share regarding his "findings." :)
04/17/2018 06:34AM  
carmike: "I was thinking about that book and how much I wanted to share regarding his "findings." :) "


It's got me all hot and bothered. :)
cburton103
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04/17/2018 09:45PM  
04/17/2018 06:34AM
carmike: "I was thinking about that book and how much I wanted to share regarding his "findings." :) "


It's got me all hot and bothered. :) "


Now I'm not sure if I'm more interested in reading the book or less!
04/18/2018 07:00AM  
cburton103: "
04/17/2018 06:34AM
carmike: "I was thinking about that book and how much I wanted to share regarding his "findings." :) "
t's got me all hot and bothered. :) "


Now I'm not sure if I'm more interested in reading the book or less!"


:) Imagine carving out a 5 star site on a lake that virtually no one travels to. These fish have never seen a lure before. To experience this small slice of heaven on earth takes extreme fortitude. Are you game? I would never do it solo so need a partner. I'd like to spend at least 3 possibly 4 nights there building the site and plying the waters. (is plying a word?)

cburton103
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04/18/2018 08:30AM  
Haha I definitely see the appeal. Basically guaranteed to not see another soul the whole time you're there. And the fishing sounds intriguing as well! But for me, I kind of preferred just getting to show up to a campsite that's ready to plop down on so I can get back to fishing! Maybe some day :)
04/18/2018 11:47AM  
I would love to find out how many people have been on that lake since 1960. Would 25 be too low of a number? No way to tell but I find it interesting. I know there were 4 people who made it in 1996 and have never heard or read about anyone else.
04/18/2018 05:09PM  
I have done many trips in Quetico and Algonquin (back in the 60's), two trips into Woodland and the Nahanni river in the NW territories. I keep going back to Quetico I think because of memories. I did find Woodland a better canoeing area because of the remoteness, the lakes are smaller, the campsites less used, the portages easier and the waterfalls better. But offsetting those advantages were the larger and more diverse vegetation in Quetico, the best bass fishing I have ever experienced, the disadvantage of observing fishing camps and float planes that are on many lakes in Woodland, the difficulty getting there, the thousands of moss covered rock just waiting to break your ankle and hard landings for portage entrances on fast flowing streams.

I am still planning to go back to Woodland at least one more time so I still love it but my heart will always remain in Quetico.
cburton103
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04/18/2018 09:51PM  
jdddl8: "I have done many trips in Quetico and Algonquin (back in the 60's), two trips into Woodland and the Nahanni river in the NW territories. I keep going back to Quetico I think because of memories. I did find Woodland a better canoeing area because of the remoteness, the lakes are smaller, the campsites less used, the portages easier and the waterfalls better. But offsetting those advantages were the larger and more diverse vegetation in Quetico, the best bass fishing I have ever experienced, the disadvantage of observing fishing camps and float planes that are on many lakes in Woodland, the difficulty getting there, the thousands of moss covered rock just waiting to break your ankle and hard landings for portage entrances on fast flowing streams.


I am still planning to go back to Woodland at least one more time so I still love it but my heart will always remain in Quetico."


Thanks for the input. The Keele River in the NW Territories has had my attention for a few years. I'd really like to take a trip on it the first time I have a couple weeks to dedicate to a trip.

I like the idea of all of the advantages you mention about WCPP - more remote, smaller lakes, less campsite use/competition (infrequently an issue in the Q, but I've missed out on a few camps I've wanted to stay at before), easier portaging and better waterfalls. I too would really miss the smallmouth bass in Quetico - that would be one of the hardest things to skip on with a trip to WCPP the way I see it. Seeing the fishing camps and the float planes would also be a bit of a bummer. I've heard you can avoid most of the fishing camps if you want to, however.
OregonDave
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04/22/2018 10:24PM  
MReid: " A wonderful low-key trip in B.C. is Bowron Lakes Provincial Park in central B.C. it's a 75 mile (including 6 miles of portaging) loop that starts and ends at your truck. It's pretty popular, but for good reason. Scenery is spectacular, and paddling is really enjoyable--big mountain lakes, small lakes, casual river, sandy beaches, etc. Not too far away is Wells Gray Provincial park-- "


dentondoc: "....I think the natural progression from (Quetico) is to Woodland Caribou Provincial Park. It is roughly the same size as Quetico, but sees less than 1000 paddlers per year. So if you establishing a "route less traveled," it is quite possible to have substantial solitude. The terrain here is somewhat flatter than Quetico and the tree species are predominately jack pine and black spruce..... "


Second to both these comments. Did Bowron some years ago, fabulous canoeing between high mountains, very developed route, canoe carts allowed, must camp in designated sites...stunningly beautiful...saw up close a Ginormous bull moose.. (Other cool places in British Columbia: Nation Lakes Provincial Park; Myrtle Lake in Wells Gray P.P.)

Canoed Woodland Caribou 2016, going back this August.
Woodland Caribou-Gammon River route Sept. 2016
mapsguy1955
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04/24/2018 09:14AM  
I wonder how many more miles for me to get to WCPP... I'm about 2000 to get to Atikokan from Vero Beach with two trips planned this year. I would love to go. I did a few miles of the Thelon 11 years ago. That is amazing water.
dentondoc
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04/24/2018 09:44AM  
mapsguy1955: "I wonder how many more miles for me to get to WCPP... I'm about 2000 to get to Atikokan from Vero Beach with two trips planned this year. I would love to go."

I usually count on it being roughly 5 1/2 hours (250 miles) beyond International Falls. (I've usually taken the drive that routes you near Dryden, but an alternate swings you west out of Ft. Frances to a point east of Kenora before turning east to intersect with the Dryden route.)

dd
04/24/2018 12:19PM  
That would be around 13 or 14 hours for me. Solo driving would be tough in one shot. I could do it but might turn into a zombie.
mapsguy1955
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04/24/2018 12:38PM  
Is that International Falls to WCPP ok to do in a regular car?
dentondoc
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04/24/2018 03:55PM  
mapsguy1955: "Is that International Falls to WCPP ok to do in a regular car?"

The highways from International Falls to Red Lake are paved, but beyond that they are not. On my initial trip with a group in 2009, we used a shuttle service to Leano Lake (approximately 50 miles from Red Lake over a gravel road). The vehicles used were high clearance and 4-wheel drive. The road at that time was being maintained by a logging company, but despite that the road was fairly rough ... a couple of low water crossings (beavers had dammed up some culverts) and a few ruts. Despite that, there were a few regular cars in the parking lot along with larger SUVs.

The next year, I returned to Leano to do a solo trip. I still used a shuttle, but I drove my own vehicle (2WD, F-150) to the Onnie Lake parking lot, my exit point (which lies roughly mid-way between Leano and Red Lake). Although I had to repair a punctured tire when I arrived at Onnie, that was not so much due to road conditions as my bad luck picking up a screw somewhere along the line.

A year or two after that, the logging company finished their operations in the area, abandoned the road and pulled the culverts. So, there are low water crossings and the road no longer gets graded. Bottom line, the outfitters in the area recommend using a shuttle service and this sentiment is echoed by the park staff.

The other options out of Red Lake are to drive to Johnson Lake, not too distant from Red Lake on the same road as Onnie and Leano or drive a long gravel road to the Lund Lake entry point (the other entries mention are generally west of Red Lake, Lund is north). In addition, Red Lake Outfitters offers a tow boat service to a portage to Douglas Lake (west of Red Lake, but north of Onnie). Other options out of Red Lake include fly-in/outs to a large number of lakes in the park.

If you choose to enter the park from the west side (starting in Manitoba and paddling to the park boundary, you can drive on a gravel road to Beresford Lake and then paddle to Garner Lake (a small portion of which is in the park and Ontario). Driving a bit more paved road (and then gravel), you can begin your journey at Wallace Lake and paddle the Wanipigow River into the park (passing through Siderock Lake before your reach the park/Ontario).

Besides the drive-ups on the east side of the park that I mention, I've also entered via Beresford/Garner and done a couple of fly-in/outs.

dd
mapsguy1955
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04/25/2018 08:38AM  
I have no problem with using an outfitter to carry me in from Red Lake... That sounds fine!
 
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