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primitiveguy
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
  
04/10/2018 06:13PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I bought some maps from Stu to mark up for me and I am so impressed. He not only marked the maps with fishing,campsite and portage info, he included a full page of handwritten notes with general info about my route. A level of customer service so rare today I’m dumbfounded. And excited to pour over all the info. I can’t imagine there are very many people on the planet with the passion for their profession that Stu has.
Jon
 
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DrBobDg
distinguished member(850)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
04/10/2018 09:11PM  
In spite of rubbing folk the wrong way at times with his thoughts he is doing his best to make it a good trip for you.....
I learned a lot starting out reading the BWJ...

dr bob
primitiveguy
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
  
04/10/2018 09:23PM  
DrBobDg: "In spite of rubbing folk the wrong way at times with his thoughts he is doing his best to make it a good trip for you.....
I learned a lot starting out reading the BWJ...


dr bob"

Everyone should cut Stu a little tiny bit of slack. He spends many more nights in the wilderness than virtually anyone today so his trips are fundamentally different.
Jon
04/10/2018 09:37PM  
I agree primitiveguy. He sure takes a lot of heat for doing things his way instead of the way a lot of other people would do it. I say more power to him. The TRIPS program is very helpful if you're heading into a new area for the first time. Most of the same info could be collected on your own but it would take a lot of time looking at a computer.
04/10/2018 09:41PM  
I also had my route marked by Stu & he included a handwritten page of notes. Made me consider a day trip to a lake I had heard about & he marked it as good fishing. And all I had to do was save money by getting a five year subscription of a magazine I enjoy reading. I have one article left from the spring issue and then done! Also warned me to be careful out there solo!
carmike
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04/11/2018 05:38PM  
Some of his fishing notes are incredible -- Of all the islands on LLC, he once circled one for walleyes. Sure enough, it had walleyes on it. We didn't catch any on all the other ones that looked more or less identical. Kind of crazy.

I've run into a few problems with some of his Quetico campsites. Some of the dots he puts on maps aren't actually campsites. And some of the ratings are almost certainly "wrong" (he once gave 5 stars to one that had obviously not been used in some time). I'm sure he throws those dots and rankings on them pretty quickly, though, so a mistake here or there is bound to happen.

All in all, it's a pretty sweet feature, though. I use it every time I head to Quetico.

04/11/2018 07:51PM  
Agree with the "cut Stu some slack" take. If you do not like what he has to say, do not read his mag. I have never had maps marked by him, but sure would not mind it. He knows more about the BW and Quetico than I ever will.
old_salt
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04/11/2018 08:54PM  
Frenchy19: "Agree with the "cut Stu some slack" take. If you do not like what he has to say, do not read his mag. I have never had maps marked by him, but sure would not mind it. He knows more about the BW and Quetico than I ever will."


So...if we don’t agree with him, we shouldn’t subscribe? I do read his magazine, but refuse to give up my right and ability to think critically. Critical thinking is what makes the world go round. I don’t subscribe to most of his travel preferences and I’ve seen his marked maps. He puts a lot of marks on his maps... Yes, he does more trips than I do, but it doesn’t make his advice ‘gospel’. Nor is my advice ‘gospel’.

Consider also that if everyone who disagrees with something Stu writes cancels their subscription, the magazine would probably fold.
mastertangler
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04/12/2018 05:58AM  
Americans have always been people of strong convictions and strong opinions. Its what has helped make us a great people. I'm totally cool with Stu stating that his way is the right way. He always explains why...........Fair enough.

And I have just as strong of convictions on some tripping views which are 180 degrees opposite of his. But I don't view him negatively or talk harshly about him because we don't agree..........he is entitled to his opinion and he is entitled to state it forcefully if he desires.

What I sense has changed in a segment of the populace is there seems to be an intolerance for diversity of thought and speech. People are getting offended rather easily. It explains censorship on Facebook and other social media platforms and it explains "safe spaces" on college campuses where only what is deemed "non offensive" speech devoid of "micro aggressions" can be used.

What I like about Stu is his honesty. You always know exactly where he stands and why. A noble trait in a man (or woman ;-) to be sure IMO.

old_salt
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04/12/2018 07:02AM  
MT, we don’t always agree, but I have to agree with you on this. Very well stated. Thanks!

I’m a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess.
04/12/2018 08:28AM  
I don’t agree with much of what Stu says, except a few very very important areas. We both love to canoe and fish, and both love the BWCAW and the Q. That’s more than I have in common with most people :)

I have used the TRIPs program a few times. It has been helpful and Stu has been honest and reported he had not been to a few areas as well and could not help either. I don’t subscribe for the TRIPs program but it is a nice perk.

T
04/12/2018 10:24AM  
"I’m a man, I can change, if I have to, I guess. "

Always suspected you were a Possum Lodge guy, Old Salt...

IowaFishinGuy
senior member (81)senior membersenior member
  
04/12/2018 12:36PM  
I'm fairly new here......who's Stu, and what magazine does he have, and where do you subscribe to his maps?
primitiveguy
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
  
04/12/2018 01:28PM  
IowaFishinGuy: "I'm fairly new here......who's Stu, and what magazine does he have, and where do you subscribe to his maps?"
Boundary waters journal. Editor Stu Osthoff. Great magazine and Stu has a unique tripping style you’ll quickly become familiar with if you subscribe
Jon
JustinLinnell1
senior member (52)senior membersenior member
  
04/12/2018 01:43PM  
I have had him mark a few maps for me & I am still amazed that he gives away all that great info for free. What a great way to give back to the people that subscribe to his magazine.
04/12/2018 03:38PM  
MT-Well stated.

Salt-Think as critically as you wish. My issue is with those who feel the need to take shots at what Stu has to say and how he says it. Don't like his stuff, don't read it. Pretty simple.
04/12/2018 05:45PM  
I enjoy the BWJ for the fishing and trip information. I find his style of writing entertaining and if I don't agree with his advice, c'est la vie (I don't have to take it). My two cents.
old_salt
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04/12/2018 07:05PM  
Frenchy19: "MT-Well stated.

Salt-Think as critically as you wish. My issue is with those who feel the need to take shots at what Stu has to say and how he says it. Don't like his stuff, don't read it. Pretty simple."


Maybe you don’t understand critical thinking. Critical thinking is the ability to analyze what is being said or read. Critical thinking is not criticizing someone. It’s analyzing the ideas. Since there are many ways to camp and fish and do most things there is no right or wrong way. Let me give an example or three. Stu has advocated the following notions. Wearing blue jeans, dry footing, and carrying a gallon of milk for his cereal. It’s certainly his right to do all of that, but I would bet that you and many others don’t agree with his methods or employ them on your trips.

I am not attacking Stu or you or anyone. I do reserve my right to agree or disagree with ideas. The articles I like best are written by contributors as they have something fresh to say. I’ve read Stu for 30+ years and I can predict him pretty well. If you feel the need to defend Stu, go for it. His Trips program is pretty good.

We debate everything else on this site. What makes Stu’s ideas untouchable?
04/12/2018 07:33PM  
old_salt: "
Frenchy19: "MT-Well stated.


Salt-Think as critically as you wish. My issue is with those who feel the need to take shots at what Stu has to say and how he says it. Don't like his stuff, don't read it. Pretty simple."



Maybe you don’t understand critical thinking. Critical thinking is the ability to analyze what is being said or read. Critical thinking is not criticizing someone. It’s analyzing the ideas. Since there are many ways to camp and fish and do most things there is no right or wrong way. Let me give an example or three. Stu has advocated the following notions. Wearing blue jeans, dry footing, and carrying a gallon of milk for his cereal. It’s certainly his right to do all of that, but I would bet that you and many others don’t agree with his methods or employ them on your trips.


I am not attacking Stu or you or anyone. I do reserve my right to agree or disagree with ideas. The articles I like best are written by contributors as they have something fresh to say. I’ve read Stu for 30+ years and I can predict him pretty well. If you feel the need to defend Stu, go for it. His Trips program is pretty good.


We debate everything else on this site. What makes Stu’s ideas untouchable?"


Who is saying Stu's idea's are untouchable? I am saying that when people launch mean spirited attacks against him, why bother reading it? You do not agree with him? I really do not care, but to attack him-which I never accused you personally of doing-makes no sense to me.

Funny, you can disagree with him-and somehow think I have personally called you to task-but I cannot disagree with you.
old_salt
distinguished member(2547)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
04/12/2018 08:20PM  
Peace bro.
04/12/2018 08:39PM  
Ditto, Salt. And while this has nothing to do with the OP, I am looking forward to your DIY Alaska presentation @ the Expo. May taunt you from the audience...

old_salt
distinguished member(2547)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
04/12/2018 08:58PM  
Hey, let’s get acquainted. I think we’ll like each other. Will you be there Saturday or Sunday or both. I’m looking forward to it.
04/12/2018 09:38PM  
Both days, most likely. And I am looking forward to you teaching me things about AK that I know nothing about.

In the meantime, Stu is okay...!
Atb
distinguished member (227)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
04/12/2018 09:49PM  
I am another that admires Stu for his convictions. His reasons are based on experience and the purpose of his trips. I have often considered joining one of his trips for the experience and to elevate my fishing, but I’m not sure I fit his style.
04/12/2018 10:36PM  
primitiveguy: "
IowaFishinGuy: "I'm fairly new here......who's Stu, and what magazine does he have, and where do you subscribe to his maps?"
Boundary waters journal. Editor Stu Osthoff. Great magazine and Stu has a unique tripping style you’ll quickly become familiar with if you subscribe
Jon"

If you are a BWJ subscriber and you have a trip planned, one of the perks is that Stu will mark up a McKenzie map showing where good fishing spots and points of interest are located and what his ranking of various portages and campsites are along your route. He has all of the McKenzie maps for sale at a good price on his website, so to request the service you just let him know where and when you are tripping when you buy the map and he will send it to you marked up. It's pretty neat.
04/13/2018 06:55AM  
IowaFishinGuy: "I'm fairly new here......who's Stu, and what magazine does he have, and where do you subscribe to his maps?"


I’d add he only offers his T.R.I.P.S service to 5 year subscribers. Just google his magazine or Stu Osthoff and you will find a bunch of info. I think his website has some sample articles so you can see if you would like it. Stu is controversial because he seems very set in his ways and many of those methods are different than how paddlers on this website travel. I’d add though frequent contributors/writers give differing views. Here is an article about him and his most frequent contributor doing a presentation/argument :) I’d link to the magazine, but he doesn’t advertise on here so I assume it is against the rules.

Differing views
Northwoodsman
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04/13/2018 07:59AM  
It's a great publication, I enjoy reading it because it is relevant to something I really enjoy. Even the advertisers are spot on to things that I am looking for or that would benefit me. The articles are written by many people, some even members on this site. I enjoy reading stories from other peoples perspectives. Sometimes they support and reaffirm my methods and thinking, sometimes I get new ideas that benefit me, and sometimes they totally contradict my thinking. Nonetheless, they get me thinking about my next trip into the BWCA. Stu provides us something that nobody else does, or at least that I can find. I applaud him for that. Thanks Stu!
Savage Voyageur
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04/13/2018 12:42PM  
timatkn: "
I’d add he only offers his T.R.I.P.S service to 5 year subscribers. "


This is from his webpage...BWJ T.R.I.P.S. ELIGIBILITY:
All active 3 and 5 year BWJ subscribers are eligible to participate in TRIPS. (Subscribers with 1 or 2 year subscriptions may extend their subscription to the 3 or 5 year level at any time).
KarlBAndersen1
distinguished member(1324)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
04/13/2018 01:40PM  
Whenever I get a new BWJ and Stu has an article in it - it's the first one I read.
I know I'm only 64, but I've been involved in some pretty amazing endeavors in my young life.
I don't always take what someone else says as "gospel", but one thing that has become incredibly valuable in my life is to at least STFU and listen when someone talks who has "been there, done that".
Jackfish
Moderator
  
04/13/2018 03:10PM  
KarlBAndersen1: "...but one thing that has become incredibly valuable in my life is to at least STFU and listen when someone talks who has "been there, done that" ."

Good call, Karl. As my Dad always told me, "You can't learn anything if your jaws are flapping."
04/13/2018 07:58PM  
Savage Voyageur: "
timatkn: "
I’d add he only offers his T.R.I.P.S service to 5 year subscribers. "



This is from his webpage...BWJ T.R.I.P.S. ELIGIBILITY:
All active 3 and 5 year BWJ subscribers are eligible to participate in TRIPS. (Subscribers with 1 or 2 year subscriptions may extend their subscription to the 3 or 5 year level at any time).
"


Thanks for the correction.

T
04/13/2018 09:47PM  
I like to read his elk hunting trips to Colorado (I used to live there) and his deer hunting in the bwca.
04/14/2018 09:03AM  
I am a long time subscriber to the BWJ, since the late 90's. Stu is always quick to let other view points have space in his magazine. This year I finally got to attend Cancoecopia for the first time and finally got to sit in on one of Stu's presentations. The room was packed and I had to sit in the back. His entire presentation I had to listen to some cranky guy a couple seats in front of me ridicule all of Stu's thoughts and suggestions. This guy certainly had a negative effect on the presentation for the 10 or 12 people in his immediate vicinity. Very rude and unnecessary.

Later in the day I had an opportunity to talk with Stu at his booth for about 30 minutes. I was apprehensive about approaching him because 1) I am taking a DIY trip this summer to a remote destination that happens to be one of the locations he writes about on his guided trips, 2) So often on this forum he is portrayed in a negative manner.

Wow, what a great guy full of great advice. I admitted at the start of the conversation where I was going. After a little bit of good natured ribbing about using the info in the BWJ to take the trip without him, he opened up for 30 minutes with tons of relevant and useful advice. The guy knows how to fish and knows about remote canoe tripping. Thank you Stu for all of the great advice.

So the takeaways for me are.... 1) The consensus on this forum about Canoecopia being awesome was spot on. 2) My perceived conventional wisdom on this forum about Stu was way off target.
QueticoMike
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04/14/2018 12:02PM  
I really enjoy the fishing articles and the great poetry in the BWJ :)
thlipsis29
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04/14/2018 12:10PM  
Never met Stu, but I used to subscribe to BWJ. My one question after reading all these posts is this: do our reactions say more about Stu or more about us?
old_salt
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04/14/2018 12:13PM  
thlipsis29: "Never met Stu, but I used to subscribe to BWJ. My one question after reading all these posts is this: do our reactions say more about Stu or more about us?"


I don't know. I have met Stu and I like him as a person. I just differ with some of his ideas. That doesn't make either of us 'bad' or 'wrong'. We just have different preferences. He's pretty strong in his opinions, as I am in mine. To take a difference in methodology as a personal attack is pretty narrow. I have subscribed to BWJ from the beginning, back in '87, so I think that makes me a pretty loyal subscriber. I enjoy the debate I have with him when each issue arrives. I'll let you answer your question...
mastertangler
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04/14/2018 03:46PM  
I think this quote is attributable to Ben Franklin and it certainly has a bit of truth in it......."you can have your opinions or you can have your friends, but you’re not having both"

I always thought the whole friends thing was vastly over rated anyway (you have to call them, feed them, etc. etc. ;-)
old_salt
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04/14/2018 06:46PM  
I prefer to keep my friends and my opinions. It’s ok to disagree, but I try to avoid being disagreeable and I hope others will do the same.
mastertangler
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04/15/2018 06:18AM  
old_salt: "I prefer to keep my friends and my opinions. It’s ok to disagree, but I try to avoid being disagreeable and I hope others will do the same."



I hear ya.........ah, in a perfect world.

But people want to hear what they want to hear. Franklins life is a very interesting one and well worth reading about. He went from being a bit coarse, abrasive and offensive (often magnified by the effects of alcohol) to being one of the best diplomats the country has ever known.
04/15/2018 09:31AM  
I have all read articles in all the BWJ published back to and including 1987. I do not "disagree" with anything he states about camping styles. Do I do all or even most of the ideas for travel, fishing, and eating fresh foods: No. For me, I have learned a bunch and incorporated what fits into my style of camping.

When I was 61, (Stu's age), I was throwing papers most every night. I could have easily paddled stroke for stroke 30 minutes a side before changing sides. All Day. Portages were easy with out rests. Add 10 years and things are different health wise. Base Camping with day trips is now a style I embrace. I hope Stu can continue for 20 years or so and I hope to be able to watch how he changes to the life changes that occur for all of us. I am guessing a sherpa will be the first noticeable addition to his trips and that will play out ending when spreading his ashes in the Boundary Waters as he has mentioned in articles.



04/15/2018 10:34AM  
Everyones BW style evolves into what works for them and their priorities . Stu's way works for him and his clients. My ways are vastly different but they work for me, and my BW travel priorities. Can I paddle for 30 minutes on one side? Sure can even solo. But I appreciate the benefits of sit and switch and choose to take that approach. My goal is to single portage my next solo trip. I like to travel and fishing isn't a priority. So my gear or lack of will reflect that. I think it's important for newbies to explore different styles and decide what works for them. And it's ok to switch up styles.
04/16/2018 09:13PM  
Stu and the BWJ are two shining stars for BWCAW experience and knowledge. I've subscribed for many years, have used the TRIPS benefit a number of times, sent and received personal emails with so much valuable information from Stu on camping/fishing/tripping style. Stu rocks, IMO. He goes above and beyond in offering information. The articles in his magazine demonstrate many different styles of tripping and are well written by many different authors. The photography is top notch and the magazine itself, how it is printed and the quality of the paper is a much higher quality than any other magazine I am familiar with. The BWJ is a quality magazine with quality, fun and interesting articles. Stu also invites readers to submit articles and photos for payment. I read each issue cover to cover and re-read issues waiting for the next one to arrive. I don't do everything the way Stu advocates or does it, but I learn a lot about options I may have not considered or would not have thot of on my own, and I find value in that. I appreciate that Stu is not wishy washy in his opinions and how he writes. I always know where he stands, which I like. Never met the guy but would surely like to meet and have a chance to talk with him. The BWJ opens up opportunities for readers who may not have the experience of the article writers in the BWCA and Quetico. The quality of the BWJ, its articles and photos is what keeps me subscribing.
carmike
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04/16/2018 10:36PM  
I've also been lucky enough to meet him a few times, including at his beautiful house south of Ely to pick up some maps and back issues of BWJ. After some good-natured ribbing regarding my decision to do a solo trip before fishing opener, we ended up chatting for a long while about lake trout and fishing in general all over Quetico. The guy *definitely* knows his stuff, and he is remarkably generous in sharing what he knows (this is evident from the magazine itself). When I initially arrived, I was in a hurry to get my stuff and get to the lake. I ended up getting to the lake much later than originally planned that day--and I had learned a lot before I did.

04/17/2018 12:06PM  
I’m probably in agreement with Stu’s opinion less than 50% of the time, but you can’t read a magazine and expect to agree with what everyone writes. What I like is that you can read one of Stu’s articles about “Stu’s way” of doing things and then the very next article might be written by someone with the exact opposite tripping style. Take this months issue for example...the barefoot portage kayak guy living off the land with a little rice and beans he packs in. Stu would think this guy is insane, but there’s an article about this awesome “barefoot paddler”. Sometimes I think the amount of gear Stu brings in is absolutely ridiculous, but what does it matter because I’m not the one portaging it. I’ve yet to use the TRIPS program, but I certainly will because Stu can save me some serious time finding the fish, portages, campsites, etc. My point is this...there’s more than one way to skin a cat just as there are many, many ways to do a BW Trip. The purpose of the magazine is to promote the wilderness area that we all love through sharing stories and experiences. You can learn something from every article in the journal, regardless of the author’s tripping style.

I’ll shut up now.

Btw, I dropped my solo boat into the 20” of fresh snow we got and tried to paddle through the backyard. The snow was well over the gunwales!!! Time to get the skis back out.

Tony
04/20/2018 11:31PM  
anthonyp007: "Btw, I dropped my solo boat into the 20” of fresh snow we got and tried to paddle through the backyard. The snow was well over the gunwales!!! Time to get the skis back out.


Tony"


That’s because you forgot to put the chains on it. Our son seriously asked if the BW was ice free yet and when told no, asked if we could go if we put chains on the canoes. LOL

I can feel spring in the air finally!
04/22/2018 05:03PM  
Personally, I really like Stu. We probably trip quite a bit different from him, but I still respect what he has to say.

Tripping is a lot like parenting. Lots of ways to do it, thus lots of ways to judge others and how they're doing it.

We have really benefited from the T.R.I.P.S. program.

John from VNO, and Dan from Canadian Waters will also mark the heck up out of your maps. ;-)
nooneuno
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04/22/2018 09:42PM  
MN_Lindsey: "Personally, I really like Stu. We probably trip quite a bit different from him, but I still respect what he has to say.


Tripping is a lot like parenting. Lots of ways to do it, thus lots of ways to judge others and how they're doing it.


We have really benefited from the T.R.I.P.S. program.


John from VNO, and Dan from Canadian Waters will also mark the heck up out of your maps. ;-)"


Lots of talk here about Stu's tripping style being different than their own, I have not quite figured out what that means but I do know my tripping style is different from most folks here as well so I just signed up for a three year subscription and will give his TRIPs option a shot....
04/23/2018 04:29PM  
nooneuno: "
MN_Lindsey: "Personally, I really like Stu. We probably trip quite a bit different from him, but I still respect what he has to say.



Tripping is a lot like parenting. Lots of ways to do it, thus lots of ways to judge others and how they're doing it.



We have really benefited from the T.R.I.P.S. program.



John from VNO, and Dan from Canadian Waters will also mark the heck up out of your maps. ;-)"



Lots of talk here about Stu's tripping style being different than their own, I have not quite figured out what that means but I do know my tripping style is different from most folks here as well so I just signed up for a three year subscription and will give his TRIPs option a shot...."

I'm a subscriber as well. I think you will enjoy his magazine. Stu favors base camping and is out there guiding fishermen. He only brings fresh food (and lots of it) and cooks on a Coleman two burner stove, and he brings a lot of creature comforts that others who cover a lot of water forgo. If one is looking at cutting weight on a trip, his way of packing isn't it ;)
04/23/2018 08:11PM  
I've subscribed since the mid 90s and also went to his house to pick up a pack I purchased from him. This was when he raced sled dogs competitively. I'll never forget seeing his 40 plus dogs all hanging out by their individual houses.

The TRIPS program is really a great feature. I sent maps in one year but was too late as he was gone guiding so they sent them back un marked. I once used Tom and Woods outfitting in 1992 and he said "give me your maps and I'll mark them for you". When he finished he said " That'll be $20". I was pissed and vowed to never use them again.

Stu's a real good guy and I hope to let him guide me someday.

QueticoMike
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04/24/2018 09:22AM  
TomT: "I've subscribed since the mid 90s and also went to his house to pick up a pack I purchased from him. This was when he raced sled dogs competitively. I'll never forget seeing his 40 plus dogs all hanging out by their individual houses.

The TRIPS program is really a great feature. I sent maps in one year but was too late as he was gone guiding so they sent them back un marked. I once used Tom and Woods outfitting in 1992 and he said "give me your maps and I'll mark them for you". When he finished he said " That'll be $20". I was pissed and vowed to never use them again.

Stu's a real good guy and I hope to let him guide me someday. "

Tom and Woods never charged to mark my maps back in the 80s. Maybe because I was renting a canoe?
04/26/2018 12:53AM  
QueticoMike: "

Stu's a real good guy and I hope to let him guide me someday. "

Tom and Woods never charged to mark my maps back in the 80s. Maybe because I was renting a canoe?"

We didn't rent a canoe with them. Got a tow and pretty sure we bunked there and had breakfast. It was also right before they sold the business so maybe didn't care about my repeat business.

It was just the way it was handled. If he told me up front how much it was to mark the maps it would have been more professional. Since then I've used William and Hall and also LaTourells and they always mark maps without a charge.

mastertangler
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04/26/2018 04:10AM  
TomT: "
QueticoMike: "


Stu's a real good guy and I hope to let him guide me someday. "

Tom and Woods never charged to mark my maps back in the 80s. Maybe because I was renting a canoe?"



We didn't rent a canoe with them. Got a tow and pretty sure we bunked there and had breakfast. It was also right before they sold the business so maybe didn't care about my repeat business.


It was just the way it was handled. If he told me up front how much it was to mark the maps it would have been more professional. Since then I've used William and Hall and also LaTourells and they always mark maps without a charge.


"

Ouch! While the outfitter may of seen it as merely a bit of a "tip" (no pun intended) they absolutely must let you know up front. I stayed with Williams and Hall once and was very pleased, service with a smile. Latourells were also good.
 
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