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      Twin Metals wants to build mine processor closer to BWCA     
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Birdknowsbest
distinguished member (225)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/24/2018 11:38PM
 
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walleyevision
distinguished member (165)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/25/2018 06:22AM
This just keeps getting worse. Legally, is there anything the state can do to stop this? It seems Trump and Zinke are hell bent on making this happen at all costs. I don't like Dayton, but he may be our only hope.
schweady
distinguished member(6702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
05/25/2018 08:50AM
Is there a link to a map showing this new location? This is just N or NE of Babbitt, I assume... around 10-14 miles SW of the BWCAW border at South Kawishiwi/Little Gabbro, on waters that feed into those rivers/lakes.

Seems a bit brazen.
HowardSprague
distinguished member(2784)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/25/2018 09:30AM
how can I put this eloquently,..... Wow. This would truly suck!
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
05/25/2018 09:33AM
Look around and safeguards Nationally on controlling pollution are disappearing along with much of the guaranteed bonding required on many mining and oil drilling our being eliminated or downsized to to insignificant.
inspector13
distinguished member(3994)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/25/2018 10:17AM
schweady: "Is there a link to a map showing this new location? "
The DNT has a map.
For what it's worth, water from Birch flows into White Iron, then into Farm, Garden, Fall, Newton, and into Basswood.

schweady
distinguished member(6702)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
05/25/2018 11:33AM
Thanks, inspector. And for the water flow clarification/correction.
"... what it's worth..."? Quite a lot. No need to be a scientist to know that a spill here feeds directly into BWCAW lakes/rivers.
Birdknowsbest
distinguished member (225)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/25/2018 11:37AM
BTW I'm not trying to start a debate, just posting the story I read yesterday.
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2115)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/26/2018 03:42AM
there's a song playing in my head. "Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival.
Thanks for posting, btw.
kickapooviking
member (20)member
 
05/31/2018 06:57PM
There is one tried and true method of stopping this, if we choose. Mass resistance. Civil disobedience included. When enough human beings show up to block bad ideas, big change can come. In Wisconsin, a proposed sulfide mine near Crandon was turned away thanks to massive opposition from many levels, including Native American tribes. Their resistance was huge.
Well, don't get me started. But we love our wilderness and need to protect and EXPAND it, not let if be exploited with the complicity of politicians.
On that note, be aware that many Democrats take campaign ca$h from mining interests. It's not just those nasty Republicans selling our natural resources. They have been complicit in supporting exploitive legislation, often quietly, and need to be thoroughly vetted before receiving my vote, anyway.
Paddle on..
BWPaddler
distinguished member(9361)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
05/31/2018 08:09PM
:(
bobbernumber3
distinguished member(840)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2018 08:31PM
Birdknowsbest: " link from Star Tribune"
Interesting article. And very interesting comments, including : Is the mine owner the same person who a certain daughter and son in law of a sitting pres rented a D.C. house from?
This just doesn't pass the smell test.

Pioneer Press article
airmorse
distinguished member(2466)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
05/31/2018 10:38PM
Oh it stinks alright....
05/31/2018 11:41PM
Hoping this doesn't happen. Definitely a tough environment for the environment right now...
MackinawTrout
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
 
06/01/2018 07:36AM
“World Big Money”gets what it wants and mostly always has. Things get divied up and the politicians are the salespeople they purchase .Our country is really no different than a corrupt 3rd world country. Buying something from politicians here is legal if you go about it the right way.
I will do what I can legally to fight it and leave it at that but our country is pretty corrupt on both sides of the aisle so I am not hopeful if metal prices rise and inflation grows .
thegildedgopher
senior member (79)senior membersenior member
 
06/01/2018 10:20AM
bobbernumber3: "Birdknowsbest: " link from Star Tribune"
Interesting article. And very interesting comments, including : Is the mine owner the same person who a certain daughter and son in law of a sitting pres rented a D.C. house from?
This just doesn't pass the smell test.


Pioneer Press article "


For the record, this isn't a question or even a secret. Ivanka and Kushner rent their DC home from the Chilean billionaire Andronico Luksic, whose family controls Antofagasta, which has a 100% stake in Twin Metals.

Pioneer Press article

WaPo article
MackinawTrout
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
 
06/01/2018 10:41AM
thegildedgopher: "bobbernumber3: "Birdknowsbest: " link from Star Tribune"
Interesting article. And very interesting comments, including : Is the mine owner the same person who a certain daughter and son in law of a sitting pres rented a D.C. house from?
This just doesn't pass the smell test.



Pioneer Press article "



For the record, this isn't a question or even a secret. Ivanka and Kushner rent their DC home from the Chilean billionaire Andronico Luksic, whose family controls Antofagasta, which has a 100% stake in Twin Metals.


Pioneer Press article


WaPo article "


Big Money hangs with Big Money. I’m sure some of the range politicians will get invited to dinner as well or they will get their “meal ticket” slid to them somewhere ;). No corruption in our country -LOL.
My favorite though is the dirt cheap land swaps these mining companies get. Here let’s give you 100 BILLION in Metals (copper is not all that is in there) and access to it from our “public” lands for less than a penny on the dollar. We are in the same boat as the Native Americans were 100-250years ago. A leaky foundering canoe awash in the giant wakes of yachts and Ore ships.
A1t2o
distinguished member(568)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2018 10:59AM
Hopefully this conversation can steer clear of the politics. I do not think this plan is a good idea at all, and I would rather the conversation stay on the topic at hand. It is a good thing to talk about the mine and the implications, but this is not the forum to talk about the politics behind it.
Soledad
distinguished member(1761)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2018 10:59AM
I certainly do not want these copper-nickel mines located so close to any water source. If only they had a clean record and the technology to extract the metal without risk, but they simply have not proven that over the course of time.
Soledad
distinguished member(1761)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2018 11:03AM
A1t2o: "Hopefully this conversation can steer clear of the politics. I do not think this plan is a good idea at all, and I would rather the conversation stay on the topic at hand. It is a good thing to talk about the mine and the implications, but this is not the forum to talk about the politics behind it."

I disagree wholeheartedly, other than this being "not a good idea at all"
Vote for those who support clean water and air.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/01/2018 12:01PM
walleyevision
distinguished member (165)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2018 01:16PM
Pinetree: " Good read "

Thanks for posting this. Two main things I took from the article.

1. They are inflating the number of jobs that will be created, by a large margin.
2. They are choosing to use the less environmentally friendly, less modern practice of dealing with toxic tailings.

Again, this just keeps getting worse, and ironically for both pro and anti-copper sulfide mining. What jobs? What environmental safeguards?
mastertangler
distinguished member(5436)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/01/2018 03:22PM
Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened.

We want electric cars on one hand and then want to deny the very raw material required to make that happen on the other. You cant have it both ways.

So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.

If we keep tying the hands of the producers then we will end up as an economic basket case. If we continue getting so bound up in red tape that we cant operate we are going to be anemic and stagnant. The biggest reason the economy has exploded is the wiping away of stifling regulations. In the end, the great hope that we have is that technology will pave the way for a cleaner environment and a cleaner planet. But if we are stalled, due to endless litigation and special interests, and become regressive in our free market policies by punishing producers, then true "progress" will not happen. There must be incentive and motivation for technology to proceed.
Mad_Angler
distinguished member(1580)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/01/2018 04:20PM
mastertangler: "Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened....
"


Master,
In general, I agree with you. We have to allow some production facilities if we keep wanting new stuff.

But, big mines scare me. Samarco was a customer of my company. They had a dam fail in Brazil.
Smaraco
That dam destroyed an entire region. The owner has been fined billions of dollars but I don't know if they actually paid anything or if the environment has recovered.

If such a thing happened near the BW, I don't think it could ever recover...

I know it is just NIMBY but I don't want a mine near my back yard (or my canoe area)
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/01/2018 05:05PM
I eat beef have family members in the beef business,that doesn't mean I want a stockyard everywhere in a watershed or farms on pastures where all the manure flows into lakes.
I have logged commercially for a very short time,but that doesn't mean everywhere and anything should be logged.
In Arizona in the desert there is potential for huge copper mine expansion in a area where watershed problems would be low.
Kawishiwi river natural pH is like 5.5-6.2. With almost zero buffer capability. A drop of 1 pH unit and many fish species will not survive.

Twin Mines statements on employment numbers years ago started at 300 with them saying 2/3rd of the people wouln not be local. Recent statements say like 640 people hired and now yesterday they say daily ore production would be less by 60%. Thus you would assume much less people employed also.

Break even point to mine is around 3.50 and copper selling now for $3.06. Would there be a lot of close downs and if no money coming in whom is going to protect the area from pollution potential.
As we speak the amount companies have to put up for bonding in case of pollution at the Federal level has been reduced or eliminated in many cases.


06/01/2018 07:43PM
The watersheds that make up the BWCA should be given special consideration, isn't that the conversation? Zero tolerance for disaster, no matter how slim the odds because nothing is worth the risk.

Taking a position to protect, with bias, 1M acres of pristine waters unlike any in the US does not make someone anti-mining, anti-industry, pro-regulation or against working families. This place is special, more special than you or I and yet it's there for all of us, forever. If we fight for it.

Mines are an integral part of life as we know it, but can't we set limitations without being accused of roadblocking progress or the right to profit? If no, then the drills will run until beauty becomes something else entirely.


The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/01/2018 07:49PM
mastertangler: "Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened.


We want electric cars on one hand and then want to deny the very raw material required to make that happen on the other. You cant have it both ways.


So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.

If we keep tying the hands of the producers then we will end up as an economic basket case. If we continue getting so bound up in red tape that we cant operate we are going to be anemic and stagnant. The biggest reason the economy has exploded is the wiping away of stifling regulations. In the end, the great hope that we have is that technology will pave the way for a cleaner environment and a cleaner planet. But if we are stalled, due to endless litigation and special interests, and become regressive in our free market policies by punishing producers, then true "progress" will not happen. There must be incentive and motivation for technology to proceed. "


Amen, Bro!!!!
tumblehome
distinguished member(1431)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/02/2018 07:06AM
Most Americans know we need mining. And most Minnesotans know this too. Somebody has started saying that because people do not support sulfide mining in a wetland means they don't support mining. What we could be saying is:

>>I support mining, even sulfide copper mining. But I do not support sulfide copper mining in a watershed.<<

It's not the type of mining that is preposterous, it's the location of the mine.
Tom
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/02/2018 07:23AM
tumblehome: "Most Americans know we need mining. And most Minnesotans know this too. Somebody has started saying that because people do not support sulfide mining in a wetland means they don't support mining. What we could be saying is:


>>I support mining, even sulfide copper mining. But I do not support sulfide copper mining in a watershed.<<


It's not the type of mining that is preposterous, it's the location of the mine.
Tom"


agree 100%. Much is to do with location. Been around Montana and seen many copper mines in bad locations and dead trout streams etc..
I have about a dozen iron mine pits starting within 7 miles of my house. Copper mining is a different ball game.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/02/2018 08:25AM
There is Federal EPA standards with the Clean air and water act also Fed standards on Federal land.
Also the track record of Twin Mines parent South America company has a very poor track record.

Like Teddy Roosevelt said>Their are some who like wild places and some who do not.



06/02/2018 09:26AM
I hesitate, but will offer my 2 cents on one issue.

MT suggests that we can assure protection by use of monetary fines. I disagree. The business in charge will be a separate limited liability entity with no assets other than this one. All profits will be extracted promptly. Very little will be left to pay any fine or pay for any cleanup. In the event of a spill, they will close it and be insulated legally from other assets being taken from the parent companies or their owners. The politicians might insist on a couple more layers, but the concept is the same and the result is the same.

There are escrow concepts that can be used. However, with the holding of the byproducts being required in perpetuity, math tells us that an escrow won't work. The holding costs will be borne by the taxpayers since no escrow can possibly cover perpetual costs even if at very low levels. If there is pollution, we might have both the costs and the environmental impact on the wilderness.
kickapooviking
member (20)member
 
06/02/2018 09:32AM
MackinawTrout: "“World Big Money”gets what it wants and mostly always has. Things get divied up and the politicians are the salespeople they purchase .Our country is really no different than a corrupt 3rd world country. Buying something from politicians here is legal if you go about it the right way.
I will do what I can legally to fight it and leave it at that but our country is pretty corrupt on both sides of the aisle so I am not hopeful if metal prices rise and inflation grows ."


Well, you nailed it. Yet, why do we continue voting for politicians who take campaign ca$h from polluters?
Why do we shoot ourselves in the foot, repeatedly by supporting these crooks?
We are our own worst enemy!
kickapooviking
member (20)member
 
06/02/2018 09:36AM
A1t2o: "Hopefully this conversation can steer clear of the politics. I do not think this plan is a good idea at all, and I would rather the conversation stay on the topic at hand. It is a good thing to talk about the mine and the implications, but this is not the forum to talk about the politics behind it."

You can't steer clear of the politics. Crooked politicians are the reason our country, all of it, is going to hell in a handbasket! It is currently LEGAL to pollute our water and air and land, thanks to bought off politicians who need more and more money to win elections and amass power. We continue to vote for these disingenuous jerks and until we stop drinking their Kool Aid every square inch our our wilderness is in peril.
We need to DEMAND all special interest monies get removed from our political system.
We need to tell our representatives that we will no longer vote for them until this happens.
It can happen, when we demand it.
06/02/2018 09:41AM
kickapooviking: why do we continue voting for politicians who take campaign ca$h from polluters?
Why do we shoot ourselves in the foot, repeatedly by supporting these crooks?
We are our own worst enemy!"


Because they are all crooks, both sides of the aisle.
billconner
distinguished member(6730)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/02/2018 01:14PM
Blame whomever you would like, the only certainty is that if this mining goes forward, there will be serious environmental damage. I don't really care whether the company or most likely the taxpayers have to pay to try to fix it, the damage will be done and long lasting, probably changing for the worse the basic nature.

It would probably cost the taxpayers much less to pay off the pro-mining interests now then clean up later.
missmolly
distinguished member(8217)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/02/2018 01:26PM
GeoFisher
distinguished member(2451)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2018 10:59PM
missmolly: " Why people stay. "

Excellent Article.....I simply don't understand not chasing opportunity. When I was young and eager, I moved across the country 3 or 4 times to get better opportunities. In one case, I took a job, convinced my future wife to become my wife a whole lot quicker, moved all her stuff to my place in Indy, and got married, all in 2 weeks.

And then moved 10 hrs away... That was after coming back to Indiana from a Stint in Boca Raton Florida for 18 months......and before that, a year in Lexington, KY.

In every opportunity, I moved for job security and more importantly , better opportunity and income.

The article reminds me of my hometown, in Muncie Indiana. I knew pretty quickly out of HS,and into college that the opportunities in Muncie were few and far between, and after HS, I never lived there again. I have most of my family there, trying to eek out a living, but it is hard, as there is hardly no industry left, yet a 6 hr move into KY or Tennessee would provide immediate economic prosperity.

I don't get it......
Later,

Geo
Birdknowsbest
distinguished member (225)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/06/2018 11:12PM
GeoFisher: "missmolly: " Why people stay. "


Excellent Article.....I simply don't understand not chasing opportunity. When I was young and eager, I moved across the country 3 or 4 times to get better opportunities. In one case, I took a job, convinced my future wife to become my wife a whole lot quicker, moved all her stuff to my place in Indy, and got married, all in 2 weeks.


And then moved 10 hrs away... That was after coming back to Indiana from a Stint in Boca Raton Florida for 18 months......and before that, a year in Lexington, KY.


In every opportunity, I moved for job security and more importantly , better opportunity and income.


The article reminds me of my hometown, in Muncie Indiana. I knew pretty quickly out of HS,and into college that the opportunities in Muncie were few and far between, and after HS, I never lived there again. I have most of my family there, trying to eek out a living, but it is hard, as there is hardly no industry left, yet a 6 hr move into KY or Tennessee would provide immediate economic prosperity.


I don't get it......
Later,


Geo"



I have always thought the same thing. I grew up in a po dunk town of 500 ppl in rural Wisconsin. I knew early that if I wanted to be successful it wouldnt happen there or anywhere real close to it. So I moved. Multiple times to different places. I understand ppl have families there etc but one should not expect magic jobs to show up where you live. You succeed in life by taking risks, not being complacent and getting out of your comfort zone. Not waiting for the jobs to come to you.
The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/07/2018 04:11AM
kickapooviking: "A1t2o: "Hopefully this conversation can steer clear of the politics. I do not think this plan is a good idea at all, and I would rather the conversation stay on the topic at hand. It is a good thing to talk about the mine and the implications, but this is not the forum to talk about the politics behind it."


You can't steer clear of the politics. Crooked politicians are the reason our country, all of it, is going to hell in a handbasket! It is currently LEGAL to pollute our water and air and land, thanks to bought off politicians who need more and more money to win elections and amass power. We continue to vote for these disingenuous jerks and until we stop drinking their Kool Aid every square inch our our wilderness is in peril.
We need to DEMAND all special interest monies get removed from our political system.
We need to tell our representatives that we will no longer vote for them until this happens.
It can happen, when we demand it."

When I was searching the blame game for who is the cause of mining that "destroys" every square inch of our wilderness, I did not see mention of the people that demand products created by the resources taken from the ground.
If you use any product that needs a mine to deliver what you desire, aren't you part of the problem and not the solution??
It's time that we stop looking at everything & everyone but ourselves. Take an inventory of your cell phones, houses with copper wire, electric cars (which will greatly increase demand for copper in their manufacture, and in the "gas stations" that will need to be built to fill them up when they run low on a charge), etc.
Sometimes a mirror is the best judge of who's causing many problems!
american
Guest Paddler
 
06/07/2018 05:26AM
I would guess people stay because of families. To some people the core family means more then it does to others. The nuclear family is a thin g of the past in this country. Look what it has got us.


How can a person use copper and say they are against mining it? What do it some place "I" don't have to look at it. Man up!!
Stumpy
distinguished member(1498)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2018 03:03PM
mastertangler: "Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened.


We want electric cars on one hand and then want to deny the very raw material required to make that happen on the other. You cant have it both ways.


So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.

If we keep tying the hands of the producers then we will end up as an economic basket case. If we continue getting so bound up in red tape that we cant operate we are going to be anemic and stagnant. The biggest reason the economy has exploded is the wiping away of stifling regulations. In the end, the great hope that we have is that technology will pave the way for a cleaner environment and a cleaner planet. But if we are stalled, due to endless litigation and special interests, and become regressive in our free market policies by punishing producers, then true "progress" will not happen. There must be incentive and motivation for technology to proceed. "


MAGA !
PaddlinMadeline
distinguished member(509)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/07/2018 09:03PM
Stumpy: "mastertangler: "Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened.



We want electric cars on one hand and then want to deny the very raw material required to make that happen on the other. You cant have it both ways.



So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.



If we keep tying the hands of the producers then we will end up as an economic basket case. If we continue getting so bound up in red tape that we cant operate we are going to be anemic and stagnant. The biggest reason the economy has exploded is the wiping away of stifling regulations. In the end, the great hope that we have is that technology will pave the way for a cleaner environment and a cleaner planet. But if we are stalled, due to endless litigation and special interests, and become regressive in our free market policies by punishing producers, then true "progress" will not happen. There must be incentive and motivation for technology to proceed. "



MAGA !"


I agree!
Make Antofagasta go away!
The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/08/2018 04:43AM
Make Antofagasta go away!
Hell yeah, along with those other foreign companies that take their profits overseas!!
This will include Sony, Subaru, Volkswagen, Honda, Yamaha, Volvo, Nissan, Hitachi, Komatsu, most of our Lithium batteries, and many other product, too numerous to mention.
Hmm, then wouldn't this make us isolationists
Yup, it will be a great country!! :)
Wick
distinguished member (272)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/08/2018 05:35AM
The Great Outdoors: "Make Antofagasta go away!
Hell yeah, along with those other foreign companies that take their profits overseas!!
This will include Sony, Subaru, Volkswagen, Honda, Yamaha, Volvo, Nissan, Hitachi, Komatsu, most of our Lithium batteries, and many other product, too numerous to mention.
Hmm, then wouldn't this make us isolationists
Yup, it will be a great country!! :)"


In my mind, benefits of being an isolationist country gains ground every year.
American
Guest Paddler
 
06/08/2018 06:23AM
Good point about Antofagasta being a foreign company. Maybe we should turn the mining leases over to a company like Polymet. We could use taxes and tariffs to help. Next we could do the same to the companies that TGO listed. Most in the middle and right would be ok with this, but the left would "Never" let that happen.
mapsguy1955
distinguished member(662)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/08/2018 10:26AM
In as few words as possible, like TWO. "Superfund Sites"

If the BWCA water is tainted, what we love is finished. Given history, this is one GIGANTIC and risky "if." All of these metals, etc. that we mine, will eventually be replaced by something that is equally or more efficient and less damaging to the environment in their acquisition. This is a completely temporary fix, including the small number of jobs, that has a big potential to do permanent damage. The money needs to be spent on the ongoing scientific research for reducing the needs for copper etc.
yogi59weedr
distinguished member(2019)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/08/2018 05:49PM
Please recycle.
Short story..
Many years ago when I started working in a prison.
1st thing I noticed was it seemed like every prisoner had a Styrofoam cup in their hand...
Several years later I did some research with our general stores lady.
I asked her how many cups were in a case and how many cases we used in a month.
Multiply by 12 months,,,,
We were sending over 300,000 Styrofoam cups to our landfill a year...
I sent a note to the warden explaing this, and I ended the report with,,,,, Frank, this is our kids landfill... The next day the use of Styrofoam cups was eliminated.
The cons had to buy a reusable plastic cup or glass from the commissary....
Saving money and resources.

Funny thing is I heard he took credit for it at the statewide wardens meeting.....
MackinawTrout
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
 
06/09/2018 03:13PM
On one hand I would love to see an environmentally sound copper/nickel and ... ahem other metals mine up in the Ely area. I would like to see it well run by an American company with large capital reserves and “in country liability”-as MINTAC is on the range right now. I would also like to see a higher ore tax than the current one on iron ore distributed to diversify the economy and go to other things that property taxes typically go to. Folks we are giving away billions for pennies here. Mining companies will have you(State of MN) pay $100’s of millions of dollars to move US 53 highway to access ore but won’t pay full price for access to their ore. Play hard nose business as they do to us.

I would like to see this because of all the honest hard working people up there that are my friends, family and acquaintances. They are good people that call a spade a spade and lack some of the pretentious snobbishness I see in other places.

The reality is that the mine would be run by a foreign owned holding company that delivers the cash free of liability to it's world investors and pays pennies on the millions to the people of our country state and region. The other very large reality is that the mine would pose a great risk to the Basswood/ Lac La Croix watershed which is as mentioned by a previous poster at GREAT SENSITIVITY TO CHANGES IN ACIDITY!!!!

Why would one risk wrecking Basswood and Lac La Croix for a few jobs and a big money con job?
MackinawTrout
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
 
06/09/2018 04:20PM
Pinetree: “
In Arizona in the desert there is potential for huge copper mine expansion in a area where watershed problems would be low.

Kawishiwi river natural pH is like 5.5-6.2. With almost zero buffer capability. A drop of 1 pH unit and many fish species will not survive.





"

Most important fact based statement yet IMO!
Dances with Sheep
distinguished member (294)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2018 12:27AM
Stumpy: "mastertangler: "Something just doesn't have the ring of truth. We have the Army Corp of Engineers look at this, lots of high priced environmental studies etc. other mines which have operated in an environmentally responsible way and a huge $$ amount required by the operators of the mine so they can be responsible for any mistakes and yet everybody seems to be talking like the pollution and worst case scenario has already happened.



We want electric cars on one hand and then want to deny the very raw material required to make that happen on the other. You cant have it both ways.



So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.


If we keep tying the hands of the producers then we will end up as an economic basket case. If we continue getting so bound up in red tape that we cant operate we are going to be anemic and stagnant. The biggest reason the economy has exploded is the wiping away of stifling regulations. In the end, the great hope that we have is that technology will pave the way for a cleaner environment and a cleaner planet. But if we are stalled, due to endless litigation and special interests, and become regressive in our free market policies by punishing producers, then true "progress" will not happen. There must be incentive and motivation for technology to proceed. "



MAGA !"

+1
Captn Tony
distinguished member(1286)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2018 07:22AM
Wick: "The Great Outdoors: "Make Antofagasta go away!
Hell yeah, along with those other foreign companies that take their profits overseas!!
This will include Sony, Subaru, Volkswagen, Honda, Yamaha, Volvo, Nissan, Hitachi, Komatsu, most of our Lithium batteries, and many other product, too numerous to mention.
Hmm, then wouldn't this make us isolationists
Yup, it will be a great country!! :)"



In my mind, benefits of being an isolationist country gains ground every year."


Isolation is fine, but carries with it a high probability of high inflation.
So don't blame the next administration for inflation caused by today's decisions!!
Same goes with a polluted BWCA.
Captn Tony
distinguished member(1286)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/10/2018 07:29AM
Another thought for those who make their living up north.
The mine comes in provides jobs for a few years then the resource is depleted and the mine closes down the the temporary jobs it provided go away. There is never any pollution problem and the economy is now still based on the wilderness experience.
Or the mine comes in provides a few jobs (100 -300) has an issue pollutes 50% of the BWCA. Now the company goes broke. I now decide to go else where for my wilderness experience, along with the majority of current BWCA regulars. Plus the number of people I introduce to my favorite wilderness spot now are introduced to my new favorite spot. I take up at least one new new every trip and do two trips per year. So now you're without a mine and a wilderness experience.
No matter how you manage it the ore will eventually be depleted.
The wilderness experience will be there forever if managed correctly.
I also understand that I am copper user, if fact it's in the cord to power my computer so I can send this e-mail.

The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2018 09:36AM
Captn Tony: "Another thought for those who make their living up north.
The mine comes in provides jobs for a few years then the resource is depleted and the mine closes down the the temporary jobs it provided go away. There is never any pollution problem and the economy is now still based on the wilderness experience.
Or the mine comes in provides a few jobs (100 -300) has an issue pollutes 50% of the BWCA. Now the company goes broke. I now decide to go else where for my wilderness experience, along with the majority of current BWCA regulars. Plus the number of people I introduce to my favorite wilderness spot now are introduced to my new favorite spot. I take up at least one new new every trip and do two trips per year. So now you're without a mine and a wilderness experience.
No matter how you manage it the ore will eventually be depleted.
The wilderness experience will be there forever if managed correctly.
I also understand that I am copper user, if fact it's in the cord to power my computer so I can send this e-mail. "


Captn Tony: I've said this before, and I'll say it again, everything is boom/bust!!
When the ore is gone (100 years) then the mine will go.
However, the wilderness has been here forever, and the things that have and will continue to disappear are the Resorts, cabins, snowmobile routes, outboard motor use, limited canoe permits, towboats soon to be gone resulting in more canoe restrictions, then more outfitters closing, meaning other businesses in the Ely/Grand Marais close along with them.
As long as there is some employment in these rural areas, someone will not be happy until they're gone, no matter if it's mining or tourism.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5436)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2018 09:42AM
A few jobs for a short period of time seems to be part of the argument against. How long do they envision the mine operating?

Would the mine operate for a decade? Maybe longer? If you are one of the 200 / 300 people with a living wage job that would be a very nice start in life.

Call me a softie but I am very sympathetic to having an economy which provides opportunities for people. Not everyone has the personality characteristics, ability or the assets to just up and move to find work.

I am also one to weigh reward / risk in cases such as we are discussing. It does not seem to be done with intellectual honesty however. The rewards are being pooh-poohed and downplayed while the risk is described as inevitable calamity. Neither position strikes me as even remotely accurate.
Pinetree
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06/10/2018 10:33AM
There recent Twin Minenmove to move the processing of copper-sulfate mining material to 0.38 miles of Birch lake and their process uses huge amounts of water in their floatation-separation process. It is in the Kawishiwi watershed-Hudson bay. This move has not really been reviewed.
The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2018 12:01PM
mastertangler,
The mine would last for 50 years, or longer.
Certainly a lot longer than the tourism based resorts in the Boundary Waters did!! :)
mastertangler
distinguished member(5436)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/10/2018 01:40PM
Pinetree: "There recent Twin Minenmove to move the processing of copper-sulfate mining material to 0.38 miles of Birch lake and their process uses huge amounts of water in their floatation-separation process. It is in the Kawishiwi watershed-Hudson bay. This move has not really been reviewed."

I naturally assumed that this entire process had been studied and studied and studied since much hangs in the balance. Maybe Minnesota needs to start voting differently? ;-)

It will be, after all, your state politicians, not the Trump administration, which ultimately decides if this moves forward.
06/10/2018 02:33PM
So, I live where my fellow townspeople are mostly employed by the mines. I live in a town kinda out away from things. Our fire fighters and first responders up here are volunteers. When people come up they are relying on these people in times of the obvious. When the mines dry up then many go to pipeline work sometimes spending months from families and availability to the department. They could seek work in the cities and move. But pretty soon you'll be looking at paid fire and medical responders. Someone has to pay... For the life of me I don't know why many businesses don't locate up here. Many towns give away land or whatever to attract businesses. But people try to stay and keep things working so there is fire and first responders and such to fill the needs.
I'm not happy about location of this mine. But no one is coming up with alternative copper and precious metals opportunities. Meanwhile we demand the stuff.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/10/2018 02:49PM
mastertangler: "Pinetree: "There recent Twin Minenmove to move the processing of copper-sulfate mining material to 0.38 miles of Birch lake and their process uses huge amounts of water in their floatation-separation process. It is in the Kawishiwi watershed-Hudson bay. This move has not really been reviewed."


I naturally assumed that this entire process had been studied and studied and studied since much hangs in the balance. Maybe Minnesota needs to start voting differently? ;-)

It will be, after all, your state politicians, not the Trump administration, which ultimately decides if this moves forward. "


That is a new site proposed by them.
mapsguy1955
distinguished member(662)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/11/2018 07:24AM
A little creativity creates options for jobs. Can anyone tell me of a single mine of this type that hasn't polluted the environment? Name one!! Then we can do the research and try to match their technology. The truth is that we should be mining astroids and spending lots of money to get the technology up for that, instead of destroying the one planet that we have.
06/11/2018 07:54AM
yogi59weedr: "Please recycle.
Short story..
Many years ago when I started working in a prison.
1st thing I noticed was it seemed like every prisoner had a Styrofoam cup in their hand...
Several years later I did some research with our general stores lady.
I asked her how many cups were in a case and how many cases we used in a month.
Multiply by 12 months,,,,
We were sending over 300,000 Styrofoam cups to our landfill a year...
I sent a note to the warden explaing this, and I ended the report with,,,,, Frank, this is our kids landfill... The next day the use of Styrofoam cups was eliminated.
The cons had to buy a reusable plastic cup or glass from the commissary....
Saving money and resources.


Funny thing is I heard he took credit for it at the statewide wardens meeting....."


Suppose this is a highjack at this point, but this post did speak to me. At our church we have asked people to bring their own coffee mugs for coffee fellowship, cutting down on the use of disposables. A few people, not the majority, have done so, and even some of those who have them "forget" to use them and pick up the disposables. So the "Earthkeeping Team" ordered recyclable cups and labeled them as such, and we have a bin for them. All people are asked to do is rinse them out and put them in the bin. I would estimate that 10% of the folks do that--the rest just throw them in the trash. It is very difficult to get anyone to adopt the "recycle" mindset. We don't want to be educated, we just want to do it the way we have always done it.

We all want the copper, I suppose. I do not want to give up my computer, or my car. I recently (18 months ago) replaced my nine-year-old desktop with a new one. I don't want to stay home all of the time either. I drive a 17-year old car, and we still have a land line and flip phones for our prepaid cell phones. We recycle everything that is available for us to do so, and I think we live conservatively, but we also love to travel. All of our working lives we moved to where the job was, we never lived in our "hometowns". I suppose you could say our "hometown" was where we DID live; my philosophy was always "bloom where you are planted." It served us well. But that meant traveling to see family. It isn't true, in spite of articles that you might read, that you love your family less or are less close in spirit with them because you don't live right down the block, and sometimes I resent that implication.

Everyone seems to think that environment, population growth and the decline of the small town economies etc. are "new" issues, but they are not. In 1965 or '66 I took a fascinating elective course in college called "Great Issues" and we studied in great depth these very topics. One of the things I remember quite clearly is that we were asked (of course it was totally non-binding, and probably a bit tongue-in-cheek) to sign a pledge that we would honor the ZPG model (Zero Population Growth) and not do more than replace ourselves by having only two children. I gladly signed that paper, and I followed through. Our own two children have each produced only children, so they have done better than we did in that regard! I guess our family is doing our part to make the world a better place! LOL!

I am torn by the mining issue. And the more I read these threads, the less I know. So many of you seem to have all of the answers, and I read your posts and think, "if only it were that simple." I'll keep reading and maybe I'll be convinced one way or the other.
MackinawTrout
senior member (55)senior membersenior member
 
06/11/2018 08:09AM
1.The argument that people who use copper in their day to day lives are hypocrites for opposing the mine is a very flawed one. Lots and lots of Mines have and can be built in areas that are not vulnerable to acidity or next to a public jewel of a wilderness area. There is plenty of copper in other places.

2. It is telling that the mining company has changed plans on processing the ore in a less environmentally friendly way. Why? Cheaper and the current leadership will allow it. The mining company is tipping its hand that it really doesn’t give a rip except for profit.

3. It is a third world deal - Hey let’s take billions of dollars out of the ground and give some people $33.00 an hour jobs with bennies. It is a bad deal.

Why would you risk lowering the quality of the fishery in Basswood,Crooked and Lac La Croix for a few jobs and a foreign company con job?

I think we should look to the future and try to diversify as the rest of Minnesota has. Diversification is the key to a stable economy. Ely should take a lesson from Grand Marais which is booming because it embraces it's natural beauty instead of resenting the people that enjoy it. I guess some folks want it to be 1973 again when the mines were rolling and motors were a goin
mastertangler
distinguished member(5436)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/11/2018 08:13AM
mapsguy1955: "A little creativity creates options for jobs. Can anyone tell me of a single mine of this type that hasn't polluted the environment? Name one!! Then we can do the research and try to match their technology. The truth is that we should be mining astroids and spending lots of money to get the technology up for that, instead of destroying the one planet that we have. "

Mining asteroids? Please tell me you don't vote.

TGO suggests the mine might be in operation for 50 years perhaps longer. In some ways that saddens me. These type of projects might start out fine, but over time it is merely human nature to become lax, people get used to the mine, the outrage dies down, enforcement people develop relationships with mine managers etc.etc. Such a lengthy time frame is concerning IMO........great for someone to make a life but will the oversight powers be able to maintain strict vigilance for that long?

Yes I know I am playing both sides.......just trying to get clarity and have intellectual honesty.
TheGreatIndoors
senior member (74)senior membersenior member
 
06/11/2018 10:56AM
A copper sulfide mining operation is never going to be clean even if all precautions are taken. No one can know how bad it will be, and it is somewhat likely to end up a huge disaster. You can count on it doing lasting damage to the BWCA.

I find it really confusing that you, lovers of the BWCA, would be even slightly conflicted about this issue. The amount of enthusiasm for the fishing and wildlife expressed on this forum is awesome. The number of people excited to hear the fishing report, to show off their monster catch, to share the experience with their children appears endless. Why risk that on behalf of a few?

I can understand the difficulty of making a living and the importance of providing for your family, but the discussion of the economic advantages herein is not balanced and vastly underestimates the value of the BWCA.
The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/11/2018 01:53PM
Relax TGI, you need to stop in the shop so I can 'splain some stuff to you!!!
There is a lot of misinformation going around that needs to be discussed!
I'll be waiting. :)
Dances with Sheep
distinguished member (294)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 08:17AM
mapsguy1955: " truth is that we should be mining astroids and spending lots of money to get the technology up for that, instead of destroying the one planet that we have. "

I disagree. We should be investing in replicator technology. I watched a documentary series titled "Star Trek" and they used it to make everything. Of course they did have to mine dilithium crystals so maybe that isn't the best idea after all.
nofish
distinguished member(2735)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 08:48AM
mastertangler: "


TGO suggests the mine might be in operation for 50 years perhaps longer. In some ways that saddens me. "


I've read some of the materials put out by Twin Metals themselves and while I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head but I seem to remember them stating that the operational life span of the mine being about half of what you mentioned, more like 20-25 years. They talk about jobs being available for generations but their own information states that would require more exploration and opening more mines in other parts of northern MN.

I have trouble with both scenarios of long term and short term operations. I agree with your take on long term operation. Over 50 years its easy to become lax on your safeguards. Its easy for things to get overlook intentionally or not intentionally. All lead to a greater risk of major issues.

A shorter term operation would make it easier to remain diligent in your safeguards but it also reduces the benefits it brings in terms of job creation. I'm thinking of the young 18-25 year olds looking for a good paying job. They start working in the mine so they can stay close to home. But 20 years from now when they are 40-45 years old supporting a wife and a couple kids the mine production begins to drop and they find themselves out of work with hungry kids and no job prospects close to home. They'd have little choice but to hope another mine opens and then chase the mine to the new site. That new mine would likely boast about creating hundreds of new jobs again but in reality they are only rehiring the folks they put out of work by closing the previous mine.

The nature of mining means there is always going to be an end date for the job. It is not a sustainable means of economic growth or job growth. They'll come in use up what they can (raw materials and labor) and then when the materials run out or the profits dip they'll bail out leaving a large void in its place. Mining as a means of supporting a local economy is nothing more than a stop gap measure. As soon as it opens the clock is ticking, if you're lucky when the countdown ends you're back where you started except now you've got an abandoned mine and its debris to deal with for the next generation or 2. More likely the area will be worse off due to the unemployed miners and workers that supported mine operations in other indirect ways.

Unfortunately I have little faith that local leaders will take the period of growth the mine could produce and find ways to create a stable and sustainable economy that can survive and thrive after the mine is closed.
The Great Outdoors
distinguished member(5599)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
06/12/2018 09:52AM
nofish: "mastertangler: "

TGO suggests the mine might be in operation for 50 years perhaps longer. In some ways that saddens me. "

I've read some of the materials put out by Twin Metals themselves and while I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head but I seem to remember them stating that the operational life span of the mine being about half of what you mentioned, more like 20-25 years. They talk about jobs being available for generations but their own information states that would require more exploration and opening more mines in other parts of northern MN.

I'm thinking of the young 18-25 year olds looking for a good paying job. They start working in the mine so they can stay close to home.

The nature of mining means there is always going to be an end date for the job. It is not a sustainable means of economic growth or job growth. They'll come in use up what they can (raw materials and labor) and then when the materials run out or the profits dip they'll bail out leaving a large void in its place. Mining as a means of supporting a local economy is nothing more than a stop gap measure. As soon as it opens the clock is ticking, if you're lucky when the countdown ends you're back where you started except now you've got an abandoned mine and its debris to deal with for the next generation or 2. More likely the area will be worse off due to the unemployed miners and workers that supported mine operations in other indirect ways.
Unfortunately I have little faith that local leaders will take the period of growth the mine could produce and find ways to create a stable and sustainable economy that can survive and thrive after the mine is closed. "

I don't want to get into a long discussion, so will try to hit a few points that I feel need addressing:
Mines usually start off with a business plan of about 20 years, very common, and many think this is the life expectancy of the operation.
Most existing mines that started 40-50 years ago are still running.
There will always be an end date for any job, and that included all of the Resorts that were in what is now known as the BWCA, pre 1964.
The iron ore mining in the Ely area lasted longer than those resorts did, when the resorts and other forms of tourism were removed by those that did not think they represented THEIR values.
Tourism and logging are always called sustainable jobs, BUT it is not true if someone does not like them.
Many do not understand that local leaders have tried for years to fill the void of jobs that have left, but are stopped in the court system by certain groups.
nofish
distinguished member(2735)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 10:15AM
All I can go by is the information that Twin Metals themselves has released and everything that I have read from them seems to indicate operational lifespan of far less than 50 years. I've got to assume that every mine has a different expected life span since its got to be determined by the raw material they are after. If the deposit dries up the mine is done, if costs to extract the material become higher than the material is worth then the mine is done. Those factors change based on the mine and the material deposit.
Soledad
distinguished member(1761)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 10:30AM
I hope certain groups stop this too.
CityFisher74
distinguished member (331)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 01:02PM
mastertangler: "
So why not the best case scenario? Why not a successful operation with very little environmental impact and folks raising families with good paying jobs? Why cant that be possible? Of course it is possible. In this day and age, with zero tolerance for sloppy practices, and mega penalties for bad actors, I am inclined to believe that it can be done and most likely will be done. If they screw up fine them to the point of bankruptcy......I'm good with that.
"


Have your mining companies proposed anything remotely close to the best case scenario? I understand all of your points but they are way too romantic in my opinion. Send some examples our way of mining companies with impeccable track records please.
Pinetree
distinguished member(12663)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
06/12/2018 01:38PM
Interesting comments from the only person to be the Head in U.S. who had at different times the Head of the Forest service and also the BLM. Now I think he teaches at the college at Stevens Point in Wisconsin?


From MPR: I didn’t plan to ask Dombeck for his views of U.S. mining practices in general, but we got there anyway:

Mike Dombeck- The interesting thing with mining — and I’ve dealt with all the resource values over the years, from logging to mining to the ranchers — the miners sell these projects to communities based upon jobs. And they lead these communities into boom and bust cycles — look at what’s happening in the Bakken formation. And of course the Iron Range is a prime example.


The mine goes in, they extract the mineral as fast as they can, they create local jobs, local communities build the infrastructure, the motels and restaurants and whatever else enjoy the benefits of it — and what do they in 10 years when the mine’s played out?

We don’t think long-term. And we should.

I forget the number of miles, but something like 40 percent of the streams in the West are fishless because of acid mine drainage, or were.

With hardrock mining, there’s no reclamation fund like there is with coal mining. We did reform the coal mining situation 20 or 30 years ago, putting aside money for mitigation, but that still doesn’t exist for hardrock mining.

So the public is still left holding the bag as a result of the 1872 mining law, which was written by miners for miners while the country was preoccupied with the Civil War and its aftermath.

Such an archaic law — it’s almost inconceivable that it hasn’t been reformed in a meaningful way since 1872.
nofish
distinguished member(2735)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 04:21PM
Pinetree: "Interesting comments from the only person to be the Head in U.S. who had at different times the Head of the Forest service and also the BLM. Now I think he teaches at the college at Stevens Point in Wisconsin?



From MPR: I didn’t plan to ask Dombeck for his views of U.S. mining practices in general, but we got there anyway:


Mike Dombeck- The interesting thing with mining — and I’ve dealt with all the resource values over the years, from logging to mining to the ranchers — the miners sell these projects to communities based upon jobs. And they lead these communities into boom and bust cycles — look at what’s happening in the Bakken formation. And of course the Iron Range is a prime example.



The mine goes in, they extract the mineral as fast as they can, they create local jobs, local communities build the infrastructure, the motels and restaurants and whatever else enjoy the benefits of it — and what do they in 10 years when the mine’s played out?


We don’t think long-term. And we should.


I forget the number of miles, but something like 40 percent of the streams in the West are fishless because of acid mine drainage, or were.


With hardrock mining, there’s no reclamation fund like there is with coal mining. We did reform the coal mining situation 20 or 30 years ago, putting aside money for mitigation, but that still doesn’t exist for hardrock mining.


So the public is still left holding the bag as a result of the 1872 mining law, which was written by miners for miners while the country was preoccupied with the Civil War and its aftermath.


Such an archaic law — it’s almost inconceivable that it hasn’t been reformed in a meaningful way since 1872."


That puts my thoughts into words quite well. We'd be risking so much for just another temporary boom.
Soledad
distinguished member(1761)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
06/12/2018 07:37PM
Yup mining in this area is selfish and shortsighted.
 
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