BWCA Wind Question Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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analyzer
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06/27/2018 10:59PM  
So I was on Zephyr lake (shocking, I know) Saturday thru Tuesday. Sunday or Monday morning, not sure which, I think Monday morning, I ran into another strange Zephyr wind phenomena.

For whatever reason, perhaps it's the shape of the bays and surrounding landscape, Zephyr often has strange winds, and this occasion was no different.

Zephyr is a longish fairly narrow lake that basically runs north and south, with a variety of small bays on each side of the lake. The north end of the lake has a main basin, that is perhaps 22-38 ft deep, the south end of the lake is a bit narrower, and about 10-12' deep.

There was a storm that rolled through Saturday evening, and after the front passed, Sunday through Tuesday was basically a SE wind. I think it may have been Monday morning, we were traveling from the campsite, on the NE portion of the main basin, to a spot I call Wally World in the middle of the south half of the lake.

As we traveled south through the narrows, we were attempting to fish the eastern shoreline with floating rapalas, but were being blown SOUTH a little faster than we would like. Approximately 50 yards later, the lake opens up to a bay to the east, and the wind was coming directly out of the EAST, and blowing us towards the western shoreline. We continued south, and as we headed out into the middle of the southern end of the lake, a SE wind greeted us. So in the space of 6-8 minutes, and approximately 250-300 yards, we encountered a NE wind, an East wind, and a SE wind.

It gets even more bizzarre. We anchored our canoe, facing due west, using two anchor bags, to avoid the swing. Simultaneously, to our left, the wind was coming from the SE, and to our right the wind was coming from the NE. It didn't matter which side of the canoe we tossed our slip bobbers, they drifted back towards the canoe.

How is that possible? Does that mean it was actually an easterly wind, and the land contours were shaping the wind out of the Northeast on one end of the lake, and out of the Southeast on the other end of the lake?
 
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06/28/2018 12:17AM  
Sounds like you were sitting around a campfire when your bobbers kept coming back into both side of the canoe. HA!

In all seriousness- wind is very rarely constant in side of 10-20 degrees (ie. NW wind 310-330)- usually varies in the 20-30 deg range. Anything 60 degrees or more (more common then you think) is officially reported as variable in a weather observation report if ; "The wind direction may be considered variable if, during the 2 minute evaluation period (2 minute avg is how wind is reported as sustained in weather reports- Gusts are a rapid fluctuation in wind speed with a variation of 10 kts or more between peaks and lulls) the wind speed is 6 knots or less. Also, the wind direction must be considered variable if, during the 2 minute evaluation period , it varies by 60 degrees or more when the avg wind speed is greater then 6 knots.

Again more common then people think and most weather observations come from airports with rather flat topography surronding the wind sensor. The BWCA/Q has such a myriad of different things that can mess with wind direction. My guess is your take is pretty accurate. You can also get uneven heating of different types of surfaces which can cause the wind to go bonkers as far as directions. The uneven heating of the forest (warm) compared to cooler waters in the Spring is the main cause of water devils that some people on this site have witnessed including myself. Usually light winds on bluebird day in mid afternoon is prime time for water devils.

How strong do you think the winds were when they were blowing at both sides of your canoe?? My guess is around 6-8 mph (max) which is stronger then most realize over water-- plenty enough to blow your bobbers back in - and rather quickly.
 
andym
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06/28/2018 01:56AM  
From the perspective of a sailor, rather than WhiteWolf’s meteorologist knowledge, here’s what I’ve observed.

1. As Whitewolf pointed out, the wind swings around a bit all the time, even over smooth areas. A lot of winning sailboat races is being super aware of those small shifts.

2. Throw in topography and the wind is also bending around those hills and rushing through the bays. Once at the end of a bay on a lake surrounded by steep mountains, my wife was having trouble with some rigging and so we couldn’t turn. As we got close to the end of the bay we got hit by a big wind shift, I’m guessing a swirl as the wind as hitting the slopes and snapped our sail across the boat hard with no warning. Never been allowed to forget that because the boom hit her in the back of the head. Of course, being super competitive she cursed me and then said, “you better get going. I’m not getting hit and coming in last.” It was a good lesson in what wind will do near hills.

3. Also as Whitewolf pointed out, when the wind speed is fairly low and 6-8 mph is low then the directional shifts can cover a wider range of angles. On low wind days, it can be really hard to teach sailing because it is so hard to feel the wind direction and it keeps moving around. I remember a day last summer that was even lower wind than that. Maybe 3-5 mph when a bunch of us were out sailing and you could look over at a boat 50 yards away and their sails would be showing wind completely the opposite of what we were getting.

Still pretty weird to have the bobbers do that. You would have to be right at the boundary of the wind patterns. How far out were you casting the bobbers?
 
carmike
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06/28/2018 11:32AM  
Any chance a steady wind for a few days can cause actual lake currents (as water that "piled up" on one side of the lake levels out after the winds change)?

I once had a phenomenon similar to the one described while out bobber fishing on Mille Lacs Lake. My hypothesis was that water levels rise after consistent (strong) winds, and I guess that water has to level back out at some point. Friends of mine who chase 'eyes on Lake Erie also have mentioned the effect of water levels rising (sometimes significantly) on the downwind side of the lake. I've also talked to old timers who made/make a living fishing Mille Lacs, and they talk about (infrequent) water currents.

Either way, I suppose the depth of the water, any major changes in atmospheric pressure, or even the fetch of the lake might affect how likely this effect is. Whether Zephyr is a candidate I don't know...I ain't no scientist, and I already worry I've embarrassed myself with too much public speculation.
 
inspector13
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06/28/2018 01:15PM  

Seiches can cause currents, but I don’t think wind could create a seiche on a lake as small as Zephyr. A lot of times those rip currents off Park Point in Duluth are caused by the interaction of lake bottom topography and seiches.

 
analyzer
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06/28/2018 09:06PM  
The wind was single digits for sure. I'm only guessing, but would say 5-6 mph maybe. Not significant.

You could see the cross hatching of the waves from the southern end of the lake, as they were hitting the NE winds/waves, from the mid section of the lake. Seemed to me the wind directions were perhaps in that 75-80 degree range. Not quite 90 anyway.

We were tossing our bobbers out about 40' or so. Its not like they were blown back to the canoe instantly, just a slow drift. I just thought it was odd. We usually position ourselves, to cast with the wind, to our "spot".
 
GraniteCliffs
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06/28/2018 09:40PM  
Were Cheech and Chong in your canoe with you?
 
06/29/2018 12:05AM  
as far as winds circling around the hillsides , ogishkemuncie is a prime example of that , being hourglass shaped you'll have a nice wind at your back entering the lake then the closer you get to the narrows it can get be strong in your face .
 
andym
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06/29/2018 06:51AM  
Sounds like you found the intersection of the wind patterns. Very cool to be able to sit and observe it. Going through a spot like that in a sailboat can be quite confusing as you try to figure out how to keep moving.
 
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