Am I missing something here? If a bear gets a hold of an Ursack are the contents ruined from bear saliva/dirt/urine?

Hopefully you would tie it up in a tree where the bear may be able get at it with it's paws but not its teeth. That eliminates the dirt, urine and saliva part. The contents may be crushed but chances are that if you don't spill food on/in the bag, and keep your food sealed inside an odor-proof bag inside the Ursack, a bear wouldn't even notice it. If you put the optional aluminum guard inside the bag, the bears claws likely wouldn't puncture the contents and it would help with crushing the contents somewhat.

I have two of the Ursack AllMitey's and although I haven't used them yet, other people have borrowed them and are now Bear Vault converts. Personally I purchased them more so for rodents and smaller animals than bears.

Northwoodsman: "Hopefully you would tie it up in a tree where the bear may be able get at it with it's paws but not its teeth. That eliminates the dirt, urine and saliva part. The contents may be crushed but chances are that if you don't spill food on/in the bag, and keep your food sealed inside an odor-proof bag inside the Ursack, a bear wouldn't even notice it. If you put the optional aluminum guard inside the bag, the bears claws likely wouldn't puncture the contents and it would help with crushing the contents somewhat.


I have two of the Ursack AllMitey's and although I haven't used them yet, other people have borrowed them and are now Bear Vault converts. Personally I purchased them more so for rodents and smaller animals than bears."

+1
I've had 7 years or so with mine, no bears. I do use the odor proof sacks inside but I just tie the ursak to a tree trunk at torso level. I have the aluminum guard but have never used it.

I started using them due to ease of packing, no bulky tub that needs it's own carry system or takes up 1/2 a pack. Food filled opsaks are stuffed in any dead spaces in my pack and the opsak is rolled up and stuffed in too. Then combined at camp.
Keeping a clean camp is obviously where it's at to avoid issues.

The Opsaks are legit too IMO. Surprisingly so. When I got them and saw their single seal I was skeptical. But I've filled them with food and left them out for my dogs, they checked them out like they would anything and moved on. I filled them with water and not a leak.

Maybe I'll sing a different tune if a bear does ever crush up my food, but the probability of that seems absurdly low to me.

Spicing up the food bag!

I too tie to a tree as high as I can reach (well for me it seems high). Been using a Ursak for some time, no bears. Lots of critters thou and they are the primary reason I went to using Ursacks.

butthead

I’ve got a MSR Alpin plate at the base of mine. Then on top of that is a Snow Peak 1400. If it bites the bottom of the bag it will get a mouth full of hurt with no chance of puncturing.

Now if it bites above it will crush my food....but it’s freeze dried so all it’s gonna do is pre chew it for me.

IMO, the single most important reason to bear-proof your food is to prevent a bear from being rewarded for raiding your camp/stash. Frankly, I'd rather you and I have crushed food than to have yet another bear be convinced that humans are a good source of food.

To put it another way:

Ursacks and bear barrels are not for protecting your food from bears. They are to protect bears from your food.

Well, just out of High Uintas Wilderness using borrowed Ursacks and no problems. Above tree line tied to and buried by a rock pile. Obviously my no problems is as much luck as the true value of the Ursacks.

I think you have to match your food/menu to the system. No crackers in ursacks. Having been a hanger forever and now a trip with Ursacks, I'm more undecided than ever. Maybe i should try the stash the blue barrel style.

Yes the bear will crush your food to a pulp no doubt. But I still use them and try and put food which is less vulnerable to crushing. But one thing about it, they are not running off with it.

As mentioned you can get the aluminum liner but before I do that I get a barrel. Actually I use 3 methods for my 24+ day trips. Oats goes in the bear barrel. Assorted sundries go into an Ursak, and 40 Cliff Bars which are double zip locked (individually and then 10 go into a gallon zip lock) goes into a watershed duffel which are simply amazing and practically odorproof in and of themselves.......that gets stashed in the woods. I could "get out" with any of the three options. All my fish are never in the same barrel.

For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.

I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears.

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.


I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

Applause. Yes a bears world is its nose and a clean camp (minimize odors) is paramount.

Just a few thoughts.........I also stash but I dislike putting my food near shorelines. That is a natural travel way for bears looking for food. I also would be somewhat apprehensive about putting my stashed food at eye level hanging in a tree. Ursak excepted.

I like natural colored dry bags (watershed duffels in green or black) and stashed in a slight depression (cold air sinks) usually under a blowdown off any trails. I use a runners reflective band in the tree above for a marker......even in the dark you can find it.

Just my 2 cents.

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.


I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.

The day a bear comes along your buffet is the day you'll have just taught a bear a very bad lesson--one which could cause other campers a lot of trouble afterward. To prevent such an outcome, you need only change your method to one of the many accepted methods of protecting bears from your food. They're all a similar effort to what you already do, but with much greater security.

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.

I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food...

arm2008: "

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.


I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food... "

So, let me understand, the clothes you wear when cooking and eating you do not allow in your tent, because of the food odor?

billconner: "

arm2008: "

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.



I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food... "

So, let me understand, the clothes you wear when cooking and eating you do not allow in your tent, because of the food odor? "

I can't speak for him/her, but if you were asking me that question, I would say that trace bits and scents like that are impossible to prevent, thus we ALL have them with us at every camp site, every time. I will also say that like we can tell the difference between a crumb and a sandwich, so can a bear's nose. Which is why all the bears who haven't been taught that raiding camps is a good idea, while aware of these minor scents, likely decide it's not worth the risk of encountering humans just to investigate some crumbs. A habituated bear who has been rewarded by careless campers in the past, though....that's the bear to worry about even for campers who are as realistically clean as they can be, and that's the bear we should all be trying to prevent by using proper food handling/storage practices.

All that said, the cleaner the camp, the better, and while I don't incinerate my cooking clothes, I'll tell you that if I got a bunch of BBQ sauce on my shirt or something, it would NOT be joining me in my tent--I would wash it and hang it away from camp.

arm2008: " You don't always know what the previous users did"

Was at a campsite on Monday and went down the latrine trail to find someone had dumped pounds and pounds of trail mix all along the woods on both sides of the trail. A huge amount.

Wasn't like an animal had taken a pack or something, more like it was thrown there on purpose because it was scattered all around in places with no access.

I didn't really understand why someone had done that, but we didn't stay at that site.

mschi772: "

billconner: "

arm2008: "

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.



I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food... "

So, let me understand, the clothes you wear when cooking and eating you do not allow in your tent, because of the food odor? "

I can't speak for him/her, but if you were asking me that question, I would say that trace bits and scents like that are impossible to prevent, thus we ALL have them with us at every camp site, every time. I will also say that like we can tell the difference between a crumb and a sandwich, so can a bear's nose. Which is why all the bears who haven't been taught that raiding camps is a good idea, while aware of these minor scents, likely decide it's not worth the risk of encountering humans just to investigate some crumbs. A habituated bear who has been rewarded by careless campers in the past, though....that's the bear to worry about even for campers who are as realistically clean as they can be, and that's the bear we should all be trying to prevent by using proper food handling/storage practices.


All that said, the cleaner the camp, the better, and while I don't incinerate my cooking clothes, I'll tell you that if I got a bunch of BBQ sauce on my shirt or something, it would NOT be joining me in my tent--I would wash it and hang it away from camp."

That's a reasoned view. IIRC at Philmont, we were instructed not to put our day cloths in tents, and of course hang all food, toiletries, etc.

bradcrc: "

arm2008: " You don't always know what the previous users did"

Was at a campsite on Monday and went down the latrine trail to find someone had dumped pounds and pounds of trail mix all along the woods on both sides of the trail. A huge amount.

Wasn't like an animal had taken a pack or something, more like it was thrown there on purpose because it was scattered all around in places with no access.


I didn't really understand why someone had done that, but we didn't stay at that site."

Wise. Everyone has a responsibility to ensure those who follow can use the site.

mschi772: "

billconner: "

arm2008: "

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.



I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food... "

So, let me understand, the clothes you wear when cooking and eating you do not allow in your tent, because of the food odor? "

I can't speak for him/her, but if you were asking me that question, I would say that trace bits and scents like that are impossible to prevent, thus we ALL have them with us at every camp site, every time. I will also say that like we can tell the difference between a crumb and a sandwich, so can a bear's nose. Which is why all the bears who haven't been taught that raiding camps is a good idea, while aware of these minor scents, likely decide it's not worth the risk of encountering humans just to investigate some crumbs. A habituated bear who has been rewarded by careless campers in the past, though....that's the bear to worry about even for campers who are as realistically clean as they can be, and that's the bear we should all be trying to prevent by using proper food handling/storage practices.


All that said, the cleaner the camp, the better, and while I don't incinerate my cooking clothes, I'll tell you that if I got a bunch of BBQ sauce on my shirt or something, it would NOT be joining me in my tent--I would wash it and hang it away from camp."

This pretty much reflects my thoughts. Keep your camp as clean as you can, and if a bear finds you and your food anyway, don't make it easy for them to get a food reward. And don't camp at a site where someone spread trail mix to the latrine. Jerks.

The odor argument is far more nuanced than many understand. And that's because a bears nose gives it far more information than any of us can imagine. A bear can easily distinguish amounts of food as well as time elapsed plus a myriad of other factors. Simply put, a bears world is its nose.

Just because it is impossible to remove trace amounts of food such as crumbs etc, which a bear easily determines to be a non viable food source, does not mean one should throw their hands up and say "what's the use".

And yes Bill Connor, i do not place clothes that I have cooked in inside the tent while I am sleeping. Nor do I have empty candy bar wrappers or like type material inside the tent. Going in and going out is not so bad as the bears nose can distinguish volume of material and crumbs should not engage their interest over much.

I am also particularly careful about handling fish. As a former trapper I understand cross contamination rather well. Handle enough fish and pretty soon it gets all over pretty much everything with one thing contaminating another. I almost always use a gripper and then needle nose. Usually I never even touch the fish unless it's worthy of taking a picture of. Paranoid? Perhaps a bit, but it doesn't stop me and I am typically solo and far more vulnerable than even 2 people.

Common sense precautions take very little extra effort, only an awareness of the potential consequences which can be catastrophic indeed. An unpleasant way to check out if there ever was one.

Perhaps of interest. Bears sense of small 2100 times a human's and - well - you can tell from title.

Bear's sense of smell

Will my (gas) attract a bear

billconner: " Perhaps of interest. Bears sense of small 2100 times a human's and - well - you can tell from title.


Bear's sense of smell


Will my (gas) attract a bear "

Good articles. I didn't know the Opsack was so much more effective than ordinary zip locks. I might have to give them another look. I think my dislike for them comes from my method of storing them where minute trace amounts of debris enter the seal......then all bets are off and even closing the thing becomes a challenge. Maybe I should be more careful about allowing particulates to engage the seal? Hmmmm?

As per will farts attract bears.........the writer suggests a lack of funding in order for a study? He has obviously never applied for a government grant. A couple hundred K and we should be able to answer that question with authority ("according to the MT flatulent study etc. etc.")

I see an ad for opsaks and it shows fresh cut fruit and vegetables. Everyone is different but I've not carried fresh food except maybe for first day. It just seems there is a relationship between being bear smart and the tupes of cooking and food. It seems clear to me fire cooking is much more odiferous than stove, and just heating water for freeze dried food seems even less worrisome. Is a sealed packet from Mountain House really as of concern as a ziplock with cheddar?

billconner: just heating water for freeze dried food seems even less worrisome. Is a sealed packet from Mountain House really as of concern as a ziplock with cheddar?"

When we got clipped on Sawbill Lake the bear ate all my candy bars, all my oats, and all my granola. He did not eat any freeze dried meals and put a single tiny puncture in each freeze dried package and considered the contents inedible.

Besides, a bear cannot smell through airtight containers.

I like bear vaults........they are not getting your food in a vault. Better for you and better for the bear.

mastertangler: "
When we got clipped on Sawbill Lake the bear ate all my candy bars, all my oats, and all my granola. ... "

At the time of this most successful raid, what & how were they stored? Hanging pack? on the ground temporarily?

mjmkjun: "

mastertangler: "
When we got clipped on Sawbill Lake the bear ate all my candy bars, all my oats, and all my granola. ... "

At the time of this most successful raid, what & how were they stored? Hanging pack? on the ground temporarily? "

It's quite a little story......And since I am sitting at an event with not a lot of folks thanks to 96 degree heat I will relate the event in no small detail.

We are crashed out and my buddy excitedly wakes me insisting that a bear is in the woods. I yawn, turn over and tell him to go back to sleep, "it's just a mouse". Soon after we hear tremendous crashing and Dan exclaims "it's got my food"! We hear nothing but the sounds associated with the tearing of a pack and its contents.

About 10 minutes goes by and suddenly we again hear terrific crashing through the woods as mr bear has now smelled the single snickers bar I had carelessly tossed into my food pack before I had "stashed" it in the woods.

I had grown overly confident as I had taken additional precautions. Little was the bear aware that a motion detector alarm had been set within. A piercing alarm coupled with a flashing strobe light was surely going to freak out any self respecting denizen of the deep dark woods.

We awaited the inevitable clash of technology vs bruin. The alarm lit up the night and probably awoke numerous other campers. There was about a 5 second pause before Mr Bear started in on my pack. As he was scarfing my oats, all with siren and flashing lights, I couldn't help but quip "ah, dinner, complete with music and a light show". The bear finished with my pack and started towards our campsite.......my buddy Dan then flatly stated that we needed to "make a stand" and we quickly grabbed for our boots.

The bear came very close but we never did actually see it being prevented by some brush. Eventually it went and started splashing around in the lake and with my usual sarcasm dryly noted " that freeze dried food probably works up a thirst".

Fortunately it was our last night of a 10 day trip and we avoided any negative ramifications of a serious nature. I found it curious that the bear put such a tiny hole into each freeze dried package without tearing it open. I had to look very carefully to discover the puncture.

This was my first run in with a bear but it was certainly not my last. Bears can cause you some inconvience at the very least and it's why I take them more seriously than some others.

Both packs were "stashed" on the ground. My buddy Dan then went on to use the Watershed Duffels of which I am now a huge fan. I dismissed his boasting of the bags at first but before the next trip was over I became a serious fan. I also dedicated myself to becoming much more serious about food storage and haven't had any more incidents and that was at least 2 decades ago.

billconner: "

arm2008: "

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.



I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.
."

Thank you! I read anecdotal stories and I can't stop thinking of this fallacy. And the people who think that because THEY keep a "clean camp" that a bear won't bother them. You don't always know what the previous users did, what about those crumbs you dropped eating dinner and didn't notice, what about the food smell on you and your clothes, what about the bear that just stumbles on your food... "

So, let me understand, the clothes you wear when cooking and eating you do not allow in your tent, because of the food odor? "

Well, I'm having the rare opportunity to steal a few minutes at work to check the board and found this entertaining!

I am one of those on the board that grits my teeth every time I hear that "I keep a clean camp....." line. That's wonderful, but you can be cleanest camper in the world and have a bear in camp! Just like the safest driver in the world can be killed in an auto accident and someone who never smoked can contract cancer. Crap happens even to those whom are diligent and are prepared!

That said, someone mentioned clothes you cooked in worn into the tent? I know at least ONE person who refuses to wear his "Cooking" clothes to bed....ME. Maybe it's overkill, but if you had lived in my shoes, you would do the same. The night we had our aggressive bear run us out of camp, the jeans and underwear I'd worn while cooking were left in camp on a log. I had changed them as I had gotten wet in the Lizz Lake muskeg earlier in the day. When we went back to retrieve our gear the next day, the jeans and underwear had been taken away from camp ( we found them on the way to our safely hung food pack) and chewed upon by the bear. Well, I assume it was the bear and not a deranged maniac or other critter? It left a lot of saliva on them? For years my wife and I would show friends my "Bear underwear" as a funny little "Trophy" (LOL)! Since then, my cooking clothes are hung outside, they do not go inside the tent.

I have had on different occasions a bear get into a cooler on my deck and bite holes in each and every beer can.
I don't intend to leave a cooler out there but sometimes I forget.

Lotw: "I have had on different occasions a bear get into a cooler on my deck and bite holes in each and every beer can.
I don't intend to leave a cooler out there but sometimes I forget.
"

Did he drain the contents? And if not perhaps you need an "upgrade". Those cases of Schlitz you got on sale don't last forever. Maybe our bear is a micro brewery Craft type? Times are a changing after all ;-)

You guys are making me afraid to go into the woods!

"That's wonderful, but you can be cleanest camper in the world and have a bear in camp! Just like the safest driver in the world can be killed in an auto accident and someone who never smoked can contract cancer."

Very true but its not all or nothing. Being a defensive driver certainly reduces your odds of getting killed on the highway compared to some DUI. Keeping camp cleaner by not disposing of food in the camp or fire, perhaps not frying food but using FD and dehydrated, storing (hang, ursack, stash, whatever) away from camp - all should reduce the odds of bear nuisance. I carry a sheet of heavy plastic that is used for under all food prep, and then rinsed in lake after each meal. All stove cooking. Hanging food pack with garbage and toiletries. Not opsacks but double heavy plastic liners, and opened food in ziplocks. Not perfect, but I believe much better than with nothing.

Normalcy bias is based on underestimating the odds of an event, which vary depending on the situation. Just odds. No different than making medical decisions or many other choices. I just try to improve the odds against attracting bears, and of course don't camp where there's even a sign or rumor of bear activity.

mschi772: "

SinglePortage: "For the last 20 years or so I have been packing my food in zip lock bags and placing them in a dry bag which I then stash on the small branches about head high in a small pine/spruce/cedar/fir tree near the shore.



I keep a very clean camp and have never had a problem with bears. "

This is a logical fallacy known as normalcy bias. Just because you haven't had a problem with this method doesn't mean you won't, and it certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't do better.


The day a bear comes along your buffet is the day you'll have just taught a bear a very bad lesson--one which could cause other campers a lot of trouble afterward. To prevent such an outcome, you need only change your method to one of the many accepted methods of protecting bears from your food. They're all a similar effort to what you already do, but with much greater security."

This is a very interesting thread. Just like most things, we all tend to do things a little bit differently.

This is the story of how I fell in love the canoe camping. About 35 years ago I was added at the last minute to a group of "experienced BWCA guys". We were all under 20 years old, so all of that experience really did not mean too much. These guys kept the sloppiest camp that you could ever imagine. Every night we bears rummaging through the dirty pots and pans left on the fire grate from supper and ringing the bells that I tied to the poorly hung food pack.

I never tripped with these guys again, but I have to thank them for teaching me how not to do things in bear country. My next 40+ trips have been bear free. I think that the worst place to hang your food pack is from the same branch that everyone else that camps at the site uses. I think that the habituated bears go from site to site checking out the fire grate area and looking to see if anything is hanging from "the tree".

I understand that my story proves nothing, but I do believe that I am on the right track. My morning oatmeal, mid-day snacks, evening side to go with the fish, ... are packed in ziplock sandwich bags. Then all of the oatmeal bags are placed in a ziplock freezer bag, then the same is done with the other items. All of the ziplocks are then placed in a lightweight drybag which is then placed in my trusty forest green heavy duty REI drybag. I never bring the food bag over to kitchen area, I remove the bag(s) of food I need for my next meal and close up the dry bag again. I choose my food pack stash location by finding the spot least likely to be used by other campers and least likely travel route of the bears.

You may find fault with my methods, but for now I am sticking with them. I may look into a bear vault in the future to replace the dry bags if the weight is not too bad. I do like to SinglePortage you know.

Found this list of tested products: Certified_Products_List

And regulations by area: food-storage-regulations

AmarilloJim: "You guys are making me afraid to go into the woods!"

Go deep and get clipped and it's sort of a big deal. I was lucky, I was 20 minutes from the truck......a cheap education.

I would hate to have waited all year, drive 2 days, get 30 miles in, then be deprived of my grub. Frustrating at the very least.

It seems the odds favor doing almost nothing or very little to thwart bears. But to me, despite the slim odds of being plundered, the consequences are so big of a bummer that I take somewhat serious precautions which, fortunately, are not overly bothersome, tedious or time consuming.