I've been reading a lot on this site about ursacks, opsacks, and barrels for food protection. When I went to the Charles Summers BSA canoe base on Moose, they had us hang with a really difficult 2 rope method or set up the "bear alarm" with the food under a canoe and all our pots and pans on top, which I thought was stupid. I've always hung my food using the PCT Method

Is it that hanging food is a pain in the neck? (sometimes it is) Or am I just hanging the dinner bell out?

I don't know what group size you are traveling with now. We rarely hung food when we had a big group on a 14 day trip. Its really hard to get that much food in the air. We used the pots and pans alarm method, but also had a bear watch awake with pairs of scouts taking 2 hour shifts if there was any evidence of bear presence. We would keep a small fire going. The last shift gets breakfast started. I saw lots northern lights on those bear watch shifts.

The other, more current issue is the large area with no good hanging trees after the 1999 blow down. Bear resistant containers is the only option there.

Thanks, agreed on the difficulty of a large group and hanging that much food. That's a good perspective that I hadn't considered, but definitely experienced in 2017. Going with the scouts is the only time I've had more than 4 people, but it's usually just 2. I didn't consider how much easier that is. I also didn't consider the blow-down lack of trees, as I haven't been to an area where it was noticeable. I've only been on two BWCA trips, and the first one was in 96 before the derecho.

I'll be sure to talk about that with my outfitter for my trip this fall.

The past recommendation for hanging food has habituated the BWCA bear population to look in specific locations. Specifically hung form tree branches. Also just because a particular group recommends a method it is not always the best or most usable.

In my case a Ursak will hold more food than I consume in 10 days and offers many placement options. Everyone's needs vary.

butthead

Hanging food has always been a pain for me and my trip mate. I finally decided I wanted an easier method and went to a barrel. Now I'm thinking about converting to an Ursack but I like how the barrel provides a nice table even if its small.

I still hang the food pack. Haven't had difficulty finding a tree in BWCAW nor the Q and look forward to the tradition.

But, not discussed recently, food fence.

Heavy and probably not much protection from mini-bears, but one more option. Perhaps where there are no trees and no place to stash or hang.

Like SevenofNine I use a barrel and am thinking of a ursack. Or both. However on many group trips we still rely on the old pots and pans piled on the food pack on a slab of granite. On a solo I always use the barrel and stash it back in the woods. Am always glad when I find it in the am!

The specs for PCT are unrealistic, at least in the Great Lakes region. 12 ft up and 6f from trunk? Not many trees where you can really pull that off. Then there's the hassle of actually executing it at all. THEN there's the fact that bears in these parts have learned to just check known campsites/hang trees and look up. A bag hanging from a tree might as well be a sign that reads "EAT" to them.

The two-rope method where you hang from a rope strung between two trees is one way of artificially creating the ideal distances required, but there have been bears that have figured-out how to defeat this method, it's still a chore to execute, and it is still screams "FOOD!" to local bears when they see it.

I tell people all the time lately:

You're not protecting your food from the bear so much as you're protecting the bear from your food. A bear getting rewarded just ONCE instantly makes that bear more dangerous to all future campers which will put future campers AND that bear in riskier and riskier situations. At the end of that path is a bullet for that bear, and if no humans get hurt on that bear's journey to self-destruction, we are all lucky.

Ursacks, Garcias, Bearvaults, Bearikades... Used correctly, they're unlikely to be found, and if they are, the bear will not get the food. It will learn that human stuff is stupid and unrewarding instead of being taught to raid campsites. Blue barrels are not bear-proof, but they do control scents well, are more bear resistant than a bag, and work very well (if not better) when stashed low instead of hung.

P.S. Hung food bags are still always vulnerable to "mini-bears" like squirrels, mice, and chipmunks. Another down-side to the food bag.

Mic drop?

I'm going to be switching to a combination of barrel and Ursack. The barrel is the main event, but the Ursack will always contain at least enough food to feed us on the way out of the wilderness in the unlikely event the barrel and/or its contents are completely lost.

I really like a bear vault (canister). I like that I know for certain that bears or mice etc. isn't getting my viddles. And they aren't carrying it off.......I used to be stupid and "hid" my canister in a black stuff sack so it would be less visible but someone on this site mentioned the obvious.......that I had just provided a "handle" so the bear could carry it off (idiot!).

I also like the canister as it starts or "anchors" my pack when it's time to break camp. The canister is like it was custom made to take up 1/2 of the bottom of my pack. Throw my sleeping bag on the other side and suddenly my Pro Pack can stand upright for easy loading. Banda-bing......."no hassles" (the MT creed)

Agree with the issue of finding suitable trees limbs for hanging with the type of trees in the BW. My food has been on the ground since the late 80s.

I used to hang but converted to blue barrels for the sake of ease and to not have to bring the gear to hang. The thing is, in 18 trips I never had any bear problems in camp, but I have had issues with mice and chipmunks, and the barrels have eliminated those. Maybe if/when I have an issue with a bear, I'll rethink what I'm doing. But for now, it's a lot easier to keep a clean camp with the barrels.

The whole hanging thing is the most rediculous thing people still do in the BWCA. I know a guy who's hanging (kit) takes up a whole pack itself. Food bear get is most oftentimes hung or in the blue barrels... My problem with ursack would be properly secured... What good otherwise if food is safe in sack but sack is gone. Used correctly though probably the best thing out there. Been using vaults, and with a couple known bear in camp never a problem.

nctry: "The whole hanging thing is the most rediculous thing people still do in the BWCA. I know a guy who's hanging (kit) takes up a whole pack itself. "

Mine weighs about 5 ounces with 1.75mm dyneema cord and looks like the setup below. It's been very effective backpacking in the blue ridge and smokies, areas with very healthy black bear populations, including nuisance bears that show up every year on the AT. I don't think anyone's convinced me yet that for solo or a small group, with dehydrated food and experience hanging that the cost and weight of alternatives are worth the convenience of not hanging. Maybe I just don't want to be convinced, but then again, maybe not. I think I'm waiting for an anecdote of a good hang failing to thwart a bear.

MisterKrabs: "

nctry: "The whole hanging thing is the most rediculous thing people still do in the BWCA. I know a guy who's hanging (kit) takes up a whole pack itself. "

Mine weighs about 5 ounces with 1.75mm dyneema cord and looks like the setup below. It's been very effective backpacking in the blue ridge and smokies, areas with very healthy black bear populations, including nuisance bears that show up every year on the AT. I don't think anyone's convinced me yet that for solo or a small group, with dehydrated food and experience hanging that the cost and weight of alternatives are worth the convenience of not hanging. Maybe I just don't want to be convinced, but then again, maybe not. I think I'm waiting for an anecdote of a good hang failing to thwart a bear.


"

Dehydrated food is the least vulnerable as it is for all intents and purposes odor free. I would never bother to hang dehydrated food. The tiny cord is not practical for most canoe trippers as they tend to bring food of a more robust nature.......added volume and weight. The thin cord would be very difficult to handle.

The slickest set up that I had seen was a double pulley and 2 weeks worth of food went high rather effortlessly. A bit of a learning curve and proper storage of the lines are paramount but I had to admit it was a slick set up.

Some of the areas I like to visit require bear approved food storage and I do not think hanging qualifies. Having said that a "proper" hang is likely bear proof unless the bear is very well habituated to pinata lunch bags. I like the convenience of my ursack and using its cord to tie it to something secure works pretty well.

MisterKrabs: "

nctry: "The whole hanging thing is the most rediculous thing people still do in the BWCA. I know a guy who's hanging (kit) takes up a whole pack itself. "

Mine weighs about 5 ounces with 1.75mm dyneema cord and looks like the setup below. It's been very effective backpacking in the blue ridge and smokies, areas with very healthy black bear populations, including nuisance bears that show up every year on the AT. I don't think anyone's convinced me yet that for solo or a small group, with dehydrated food and experience hanging that the cost and weight of alternatives are worth the convenience of not hanging. Maybe I just don't want to be convinced, but then again, maybe not. I think I'm waiting for an anecdote of a good hang failing to thwart a bear.


"

I used that system in the past, kept needing to replace vermin holed bags, even when hung up they get to the bags. This is the reason I went to a Ursak. My food consists of air/freeze dried ingredients in twist tie baggies, then all into an Opsack. Many consider this smell proof, I do not. Spent enough time in the bush to realize many critters chew on anything they find. Nobody here is trying to convince you to stop hanging, just pointing out some personal opinion and experiences. Keep hanging till it no longer works for you, lots of ways to store foodstuff in the bush.

butthead

mastertangler: "
The slickest set up that I had seen was a double pulley and 2 weeks worth of food went high rather effortlessly. A bit of a learning curve and proper storage of the lines are paramount but I had to admit it was a slick set up. "

I use two pulleys - a double and a single for a 3:1 advantage - and hang my CCS Deluxe pack. I posted five pics of five hangs in a thread a year or two ago. One was iffy in terms of the 5 and 10, now 6 and 12 iirc, but it was on a small island.

There is no place in BWCA or the Q that I could not get out from without starving if this ever fails, so not investing in new gear yet. Besides, I'd need probably 5 or 6 of the major XL match capacity of the CCS pack.

Kind of hard to find the correct trees to property hang a food pack, especially in a blow down area. If you have a group size of eight that’s a lot of food to hang. We now just put food in barrels around the woods. Five gallon pails with screw on lids called gamma seal lids. Never have had a problem with these.

I usually trip in groups of 6 or 8. It is hard to hang that much food.

I also found it very hard to find good trees. Most often, the trees available will just slow a bear down. He'd still eventually get the food.

So, I don't hang food any more.

Now, I bring my food in kitty litter buckets. That solves the mouse/chipmunk problems. I stash the buckets in several locations around camp. Hopefully, the bear wouldn't find all the food.

Savage Voyageur: "Kind of hard to find the correct trees to property hang a food pack, especially in a blow down area. If you have a group size of eight that’s a lot of food to hang. We now just put food in barrels around the woods. Five gallon pails with screw on lids called gamma seal lids. Never have had a problem with these. "

I do the same. I like to put mine under some cedar trees and place upside down with pine needles around the edge. Don't know if it really helps mask scent but it makes me feel better. The rubber gaskets get compressed if you leave them screwed tight at home.

I worked at the Northern Tier scout base back in the early 1990s and went on 1-3 canoe trips a year both before and since. I use a 2 rope method and still hang my food that way. I honestly haven't had much of a problem finding trees but I will admit that suitable trees are part of my campsite selection process. My rope kit is very small and I use 2 "O" rings to make it so it is like pulling up approx 1/2 the weight. Pulleys didn't seem to work as well for me (jamming), just the simple "O" ring.

I have used bear barrels before too but mostly just for 1-2 day backcountry trips.

On the other hand, with 6-8 people in a crew, we never had trouble raising even the heaviest of bags. Most of those trips were 10 days.

I think one of my next purchases might be that URSACK though :-).

What do you guys think about 5 gallon buckets? I'm heading up to the BW in a few weeks. Was planning on putting my food in 5 gal buckets (2 if needed) with lids that have o-rings. Going to hang them, but after reading through this thread, I am thinking that I don't have too.

What are your thoughts?

Basser8239: "What do you guys think about 5 gallon buckets? I'm heading up to the BW in a few weeks. Was planning on putting my food in 5 gal buckets (2 if needed) with lids that have o-rings. Going to hang them, but after reading through this thread, I am thinking that I don't have too.


What are your thoughts? "

I have several 5 gallon buckets designated for tripping in the Everglades complete with screw on lids. Mostly to thwart the ever present raccoons which want your food and water.

I actually like 5 gallon buckets but if you are of a shorter variety of person they may have a tendency to bang against your knees on portages. Probably not so much with taller folk.

Certainly they are not bear proof but would foil your most likely nemesis of mice and chipmunks.

My advice is to give them a go and see how you like it. There is nothing quite like actual experience to see if it's your style. I certainly trip differently than most folks and am quite happy with how I roll. So give it a go, evaluate the experience and adjust accordingly.

If you are concerned about bear pilfering your food it is an uncommon event but it does and can happen. Some folks take zero precautions and have been fine for decades. Others, myself included, have been not so lucky. Just remember a bears world is its nose. If it doesn't smell your food, it's not interested (unless it has learned that certain trees contain food).

I would probably make sure my food is odor free and just stash my buckets. But I would likely get some camo tape and make them invisible. A bright orange or white bucket might arouse some curiosity. But make sure you can find your stashed buckets. I strongly suggest a runners wrist band placed in the tree above your chosen site. Just Velcro back on the handle of the bucket when not in use. Nothing more aggravating than trying to find your food in the predawn darkness.......been there.

"

Nobody here is trying to convince you to stop hanging, just pointing out some personal opinion and experiences. Keep hanging till it no longer works for you, lots of ways to store foodstuff in the bush.


butthead"

Ha! I think I was trying to convince myself!

This is one of our most cherished traditions: the hang it vs. stash it debate!

I used to hate hanging my food and actually had a bear rip it down one night and consume everything. I now use a bear vault and an ursack when I solo with my dog. I make sure to stash separately and hidden under a pine. I use opsacks and double ziplock also inside the ursack. It's easy and vermin and bear proof. Problem solved.

HighnDry: "This is one of our most cherished traditions: the hang it vs. stash it debate!"

I couldn't have asked for a better initiation. Maybe next I'll ask, "should I carry a gun to BWCA?"

:)

Long time hanger here. I use a Petal climbing pulley attached by carabiner to 450# test yellow cord. I use a rock in the small ( quart sized) stuff sack that holds the hanging kit to throw the line over a high branch (usually 20' or better) and fairly thick rope (for easy of pulley) for the food bag(s). Food bags are the heavy duty Sealine dry bags. Never had a rodent issue in my 20 years of using them.

I don't like the rigidity of the Bear Vault. Will switch to Ursack if my system fails.

O ring buckets. Be careful replacing the lid . Its possible to get it cross threaded and then the darn thing leaks. Nothing worse than wet food. Lesson learned.

Sometimes use them but not for portage trips.

Hanging seems to be verboten in some National Parks now. I am not sure if that is because bear lockers are more effective and have been installed.

I've been using BearVaults for years and would never even consider hanging. I'm not all that careful where I put them, other than getting them out of camp someplace where the won't roll away if something plays with them. That as never happened by the way.

Most of my food is dehydrated or packaged stuff like cliff bars so I can work with the volume constraint that a canister adds.

Canisters are also rodent proof which is more likely to be a problem and always protect your food from vermin even in camp, as long as you get in the habit of putting the lid back on.

BTW two of the large BearVaults fit perfect, stacked sideways, in a CCS RuckSack.

I think switching to bear vaults/canisters/Ursacks has been one of the best things I've done to improve my trips. Some people like the challenge and/or ritual of finding the tree, throwing the rope, hefting the food, etc., but I'm not one of them. Plus, after reading enough stories and seeing multiple videos of smart and habituated bears climbing the ropes and/or pulling the bag down, I am not sure that hanging food is even the best strategy.

Easier for me + better for protecting my food + better for the bears = Winner!

Banksiana: "I don't like the rigidity of the Bear Vault. Will switch to Ursack if my system fails."

I love to use the vault as a table when I eat. I never would have pegged you for a hanger especially because you liked to single portage. With an ursack you can lose some ropes and a pully. The simplicity of hiding food is what really appeals to me. I never have to worry about finding that perfect branch to then toss a rope over. You might enjoy the old school ritual of it all?

Searching for the 'right' pair of trees, launching rocks that lose ropes, untangling ropes a couple times, having at least one rock bounce back at the launcher (me) etc, all have a high entertainment factor for my wife--I don't think she'll ever let me opt for the barrel, canister, or Ursak approach to food storage!
TZ

Ursack with Opsack and ziplocks inside of both. Will never go back. It’s like “oh time to call it a day. Find a tree. Tie it. Go to bed”

And this last trip.... no where in any camp was there a limb that gave you four feet of clearance from the trunk. Saw my friends hanging off 2 foot branches and all I could think was “you know bears climb trees right?”

I hang 1st, drop off cliff above bear reach from cliff tied to a tree above, 2nd and pot/pan if all else fails. I think a 5 gallon bucket would work with the proper lid or a fair amount of duct tape.

MisterKrabs: "

HighnDry: "This is one of our most cherished traditions: the hang it vs. stash it debate!"

I couldn't have asked for a better initiation. Maybe next I'll ask, "should I carry a gun to BWCA?"


:)
"

hahaha!

The list is long but here's a few more (in no particular order):
1. single vs. double portage
2. fresh vs. dehydrated food
3. rod holder vs no rod holder
4. burn vs bury tp
5. layin' "dibbs" on a site to check another
6. fire vs stove to cook
7. braid vs monofilament.....
etc. etc. etc.

Have fun -- you've taken your first steps into a whole new world :)

hanging has always been a pain in the butt for me, when i solo it's 1-bv 500, with my wife, 2 bv 500"s. no rodents, stays dry, can't be easier for me. tuck them under the brush at night. out of sight.

On our first trip to the BWCA we used the PCT method and it was so time-consuming and putsy... we then adapted to a simple throw over and hang method and have settled on the URSAK as the best option. Only a bear vault would be easier.