BWCA Husband and Tween BWCA trip alone - safe?? Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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SailorMom
  
08/14/2018 07:57AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Hi, my husband (51, 15+ trips to the BWCA) and 11 year old daughter (2 prior trips with Dad and friends, but otherwise no survival or responsibility skills - although very cute;)) are planning a trip to the BWCA alone this year. Their normal group can’t join them this year.

Last year, they had bears in their camp (Red Rock Lake), so this year, they will pick an island campsite and go to a place out of Gunflint that is In a location with passing campers. I’m concerned that if something were to happen, the 11 year old would be alone in the wilderness by herself and not know how to help her dad. Dad is planning to bring a satellite phone and says help is only 20 minutes away (outfitters by boat). However, as much as my daughter plays on our phones, I’m not sure she even knows how to use one to call! Ha.

Please chime in on whether you think this is ok for them to go solo, and if they do decide to go, what can we do to get our daughter ready to help in case of an emergency or incident?

Thanks!
 
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08/14/2018 08:30AM  
As Mark Twain once said, "Worrying must work because everytime I worry about something, it doesn't happen".

Seriously it sounds just fine. With your husband's experience and a Sat phone and the area they will be in the only thing that will happen is they'll have a wonderful father/daughter trip that both will treasure for the rest of their lives.

Worry not and enjoy your time as well!
 
HowardSprague
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08/14/2018 08:36AM  
They will do great!
 
SailorMom
  
08/14/2018 08:46AM  
I should also ask: is the area around and to the north of Red Rock Lake in the burn area? Just curious.
 
08/14/2018 09:01AM  
I see absolutely no issues here. Your husband is experienced, he has a sat phone, and sounds like they are going to an area where other people won't be far away. The risks are minimal and acceptable.

If you're concerned about your daughter being able to use the sat phone, my answer to that would be TEACH HER. At 11, she's old enough to learn something like that. I would also challenge your husband to give her some responsibility on the trip. Give her a map and let her navigate (your husband can be tracking location on another map as a back up without her knowing). Have her help plan, prep, and cook a couple meals. Have her plan and organize a day trip including thinking ahead about what they may need to bring on the day trip.

You mentioned she has little in the way of survival or responsibility skills, well those things are only developed through teaching. No better time to start than now. Last year when my daughter was four, we went on a short hike together when camping at a state park and we talked the whole way about navigation skills. When we got to the furthest point on our hike, I said, ok lets turn around and you get us back to camp. You know what? She could do it. At 4 years old, she was able to process what we had talked about and find our way back. Kids are capable of WAY more than we give them credit for, they are just waiting for us to teach them.
 
08/14/2018 09:19AM  
Working a sat phone only takes a few minutes instruction.
Give your kid credit for being smart.
Trust your hubby and kid.
You will be rewarded.
 
08/14/2018 10:08AM  
3 years ago took my then 9 year old son on his first trip, and that was my first trip also, I had no tripping experience. Did not take a satellite phone. Everything turned out just fine. We've gone back 3 more times the last 3 years, including Red Rock Lake last year.

Most places in the BWCA you're going to see a few groups paddling on any given day, so in a real emergency she's not going to be alone, and will also have the security of the satellite phone. No reason she can't learn to use it. Also get her a whistle and let her know that 3 whistle blows in a row, with a pause in between, and 3 more whistle blows is a distress call, and on the water you can hear a whistle from a long way away. Also might want her to take a CPR class, she's not too young. Though she won't need to use it while tripping, it's a great skill to learn and keep up on.

The burn area ends halfway up Red Rock Lake, the northern part of Red Rock and parts further north were unaffected.

Not to scare you, but black bears are great swimmers, being on an island won't make it any less likely you'll see them. However, as happy as they would be to take your food, they also are very, very unlikely to cause harm to a human, unless you're harassing it or wrestling it for your food stash. For your peace of mind you can have them take a can of bear spray, but they won't need it.

Let them go and enjoy and rest easily while they're gone.


 
08/14/2018 10:35AM  
I would have no issues with this trip, but I understand worrying is part of the parent job description and due diligence.

I'd just make sure the daughter knows how to run the sat phone in case the father can't for some reason.

THen just have fun!

T
 
08/14/2018 10:38AM  
I would have your daughter teach your husband how to use the satellite phone.
 
08/14/2018 12:33PM  
"Safe" is a dangerous word - what does "safe" mean? Cars are incredibly unsafe. If something happens to you when you're driving with your child, she has nothing she can do about it and is completely helpless. People die in cars at a dramatically higher rate than in the BWCA.

They'll absolutely be fine. I first took my daughter in alone when she was 9; an 11 year old is perfectly capable of doing her share, and he knows what he's doing so can teach her. It's a magical and fun experience, and they'll both have a good time.

 
Savage Voyageur
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08/14/2018 12:33PM  
I see no problem with doing this. People have been traveling alone or with children for a very long time. Only recently there has been Technology like cell or satellite phones, or personal locator beacons. Go and have fun. Teach her how to use the phone, write down the phone instructions for her.
 
08/14/2018 12:50PM  
I agree with everyone that it sounds safe, and hope they have a great time. I don't agree with your logic that they are staying on an island camp site to avoid bears. Bears are awesome swimmers, I have personally seen them cross lakes a mile wide. It's more important to pick a clean camp site, with no signs of bear activity. I personally think bears are at the very bottom of things to worry about.
I would also recommend to anyone going to BWCA to take a wilderness first aid course, or a regular first aid course at least once if not every decade or so. Knowledge can be a life saver.
 
SevenofNine
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08/14/2018 02:18PM  
It's perfectly acceptable for your daughter and husband to take a trip together at her age. I did so with my own daughter when she was the same age and....gasp...we didn't have a satellite phone! People travel through the area and I assume they won't go in very far so she could flag someone down via shouting or better yet a whistle if she couldn't work the phone.

It's more important to not overload the pack she is bringing. Having proper clothing and gear plus a bug net for her than worry about a bear. Boredom might be the biggest killer for the trip so make sure he has a game or two along.

Hope they have a great time together and you report back on their trip.
 
08/14/2018 02:22PM  
I'm sure they will be fine. Your daughter is old enough to learn how to use the sat phone. Just be sure she knows when she should and shouldn't use it. Same with a whistle.

And just like anytime you go, everyone should have a basic idea of where they are on the map, and where the closest exit is. After picking a campsite, compare what she sees to what the map looks like.

She should also at least know where the first aid kit is, so she can find it quickly if you get hurt.

Get her involved in the planning. Give her some responsibility and remember it's ok if she makes mistakes. Put her in charge of picture taking.

It sounds like your husband has more experience than a lot of people going there, and I'm sure he will be more cautious than usual with just the 2 of them going. You're probably more worried than they are.


 
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2885)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/14/2018 02:38PM  
Join them for the trip and witness first-hand that the fretting and worrying is all for naught.
 
08/14/2018 03:01PM  
Without a bicycle helmet and a helicopter mom, how did I ever survive childhood??


95% of the time they will be "safe".



 
OCDave
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08/14/2018 03:11PM  
bobbernumber3: "Without a bicycle helmet and a helicopter mom, how did I ever survive childhood??

95% of the time they will be "safe". "

Of course, SailorMom is not going to let dad take her 11 yo into the BWCA with out the proper paddling Helmet and certainly she stocked up on the chewable, "Above the 47th Parrallel" multi-vitamin available only by mail-order from Sven and Ole's Pizza and Vitamin Shoppe well before this trip. Certainly, mom wouldn't allow him to take her daughter on an perilous adventure without first updating her vaccinations against Wanderlust, Vagabondism, Hoboism and Train Fever.

Certainly, she has covered all the bases a good helicopter mom would address.
 
08/14/2018 03:23PM  
I say go for it. Can't get any better daughter-father bonding .
Just like anybody who goes my biggest concern is the skill level of paddling and paddle accordingly. Meaning know when to sit out getting big waves etc.
You learn by doing and they will have to share chores more.
 
snakeybird
member (34)member
  
08/14/2018 03:33PM  
I empathize with your concerns. The concept of safety is relative; nothing in life is really safe. We all have different levels of risk we are willing to accept for ourself, and it is often more challenging to see those we love do something we consider risky than doing the same type of thing ourself. Your husband is experienced with canoe tripping, and an 11 year old can certainly be taught to use a sat phone; to me, the risk/danger seems quite minimal. And the chance for a lot of fun and great memories is high. If bears are a big concern, they can always take a marine air horn; loud as heck, so it needs to be used judiciously, but runs bears off quite effectively. And no risk of blinding blow back, unlike bear spray.

Of course, you know your spouse and daughter, and have better insight than any of us if there is some challenge that would cause concern about this trip beyond general safety issues. If you are truly worried, could you perhaps go with them?

FWIW, I have fond memories of a fly out trip in SE Alaska I did with my dad and cousin when the two of us were 8 year old kids. This was before the age of cell phones or Sat phones. We had a great time, and as my Dad stayed behind for work, got to feel all grown up when the float plane pilot flew us back to civilization after 5 days without a parent along! Not sure how the pilot felt about being saddled with 2 3rd graders!
 
08/14/2018 03:40PM  
All 3 of my kids wear an emergency whistle around their neck. They know if they blow 3 times, pause and blow 3 times and keep doing it someone will come to help. They also know that the whistle is not for playing with. It's to get help or scare away bears.

I read a story from a while ago. A mom, daughter (age 8 I believe) and grandma went canoe camping. Over night a storm blew up and a tree fell, pinning mom and grandma. 8 year old got her whistle and began to do 3 blows, break and then 3 again. She kept at it and 30 minutes later near by campers showed up and freed the adults who were not hurt.


All this to say nothing will happen, they will be fine. We have done well over 50 bwca trips and never once needed help. But I make sure our kids know how to use the whistle. It gives them confidence to know how they can get help.
 
08/14/2018 03:44PM  
Geez - they are probably looking forward to not being hounded. I’s the BWCAW. It may be called a wilderness area, but is it really. It’s tine outside camping in a really nice area. There are people around.
 
08/14/2018 03:50PM  
I know many Father-Daughter annual tripping lasting for many decades.
 
BadDad?
Guest Paddler
  
08/14/2018 04:34PM  
I took my daughter to the BWCA by myself a couple of times, first when she was about 4, no SAT or cell, I'm pretty sure if something would have happened to me she'd have been fine until somebody came along, the BWCA might be a wilderness, but there are tons of people there, good people.

She was in more danger riding her bike at home or crossing the street when you consider the way people drive.
 
alpinebrule
distinguished member (319)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
08/14/2018 05:14PM  
Agree with the general consensus safe. I would add that I started taking my daughter(s) about the same age. I continue to trip with my 28 year old now at her insistence every year (older is in Austin Tx with two under five). She chooses to use her vacation time to spend time with me and enjoy the BWCA. PRICELESS !!!!
 
08/14/2018 05:18PM  
Canoearoo: "All 3 of my kids wear an emergency whistle around their neck.... "


Great point! A good emergency whistle is much more valuable than a sat phone, IMHO.
 
08/14/2018 05:45PM  
There is no point in ridiculing a woman who has a valid concern and is asking knowledgeable people for their opinions.
The strong consensus is "Don't worry, they'll be fine."
The probability of some misfortune befalling them is extremely small.
In fact, that probability is far smaller than accidents in or near home.
And, as has been stated again and again, there are a lot of people in the BWCA during the time her family will be there.
 
08/14/2018 06:07PM  
jcavenagh: "There is no point in ridiculing a woman who has a valid concern and is asking knowledgeable people for their opinions.
The strong consensus is "Don't worry, they'll be fine."
The probability of some misfortune befalling them is extremely small.
In fact, that probability is far smaller than accidents in or near home.
And, as has been stated again and again, there are a lot of people in the BWCA during the time her family will be there."


But if you want to worry, just Google "deaths in the BWCA". Accidents happen every year for a lot of different reasons. Something could happen. Anything. Tick bite, canoe capsize, tree on tent, giardia, broken leg on a portage, cut by an axe, bear issues, etc.

My wife worries about everything. I don't think there is any post a member could publish that will diminish worry for her or the OP.
 
mjmkjun
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08/14/2018 06:23PM  
scat: "Geez - they are probably looking forward to not being hounded. I’s the BWCAW. It may be called a wilderness area, but is it really. It’s tine outside camping in a really nice area. There are people around."

Agree! In 9 years of FINE wilderness tripping, I've not come across a bear, a wolf or any sort of trouble. Mayhap, someday I will but so far--nothing. My advice: Always wear PFD when paddling the lakes and bring a good dose of common sense. I am 68 and still go solo w/no dramas in the BWCA to speak of. I am not the worrying sort but I know folks who are.
Pretty sure SailorMom thought this through before posting and just wanted some level of feedback for validation.
 
08/14/2018 07:01PM  
Like the whistle idea, will institute that with my kids too.

T
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
08/14/2018 07:28PM  
I'm not going to pile on to the advice already given. Most of it is very good advice. Dad is experienced and your daughter has gone before so not a totally new experience. If the trip is modest, meaning only a few portages, and Dad uses good common sense by not exposing her to the need for "serious" paddling (windy conditions, significant waves, etc.), they'll be more than fine.

One thing worth stating - has your husband been to a doctor lately for a thorough checkup? Key word is "thorough". The full nine yards. That might set your mind at ease as much as anything.
 
08/14/2018 09:24PM  
I consider the BW to be one of the safest places on Earth. People are the danger and the BW has few of them. Maybe already mentioned but Bears are excellent swimmers
 
heavylunch
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08/15/2018 09:12AM  
They should be fine. For the most part, the BWCA isn't nearly as remote as people who haven't been there think. Take the opportunity to teach her some first aid and how to start a fire and use a compass. Buy her a "safety whistle" to carry in case she gets lost going to the latrine. That is what our 4 year old daughter carries when we go camping with her in the BWCA. Sounds like a wonderful trip.
 
08/15/2018 09:29AM  
I started doing a daddy/daughter trip with one girl at a time when they were each 5. That one on one bonding time in the bwca is priceless!!!!! My 13 yo just did her 5th trip with me and my 11 yo will do her 4th trip with me next year.
 
08/15/2018 01:33PM  
I think something that is real important which you don't see often is a correct paddle length for kids or any individual. You don't give too long and heavy baseball bat to a small kid.
 
08/15/2018 03:11PM  
They'll be fine, mom. It will likely be the first of many or at the very least something that they'll talk about for the rest of their lives. "Remember that time we went to..."

Sorry that a few people felt the need to belittle you for worrying.
 
08/15/2018 06:14PM  
Tomorrow I will bury my father who passed away on Sunday. Let her experience this with her dad. She will have this memory when she has to say her final good-bye.

~
 
Ted??Bo
Guest Paddler
  
08/15/2018 06:57PM  
Your husband must be a super awesome guy!
 
08/15/2018 06:57PM  
BSW: "Tomorrow I will bury my father who passed away on Sunday. Let her experience this with her dad. She will have this memory when she has to say her final good-bye.

~"

Sorry for the news and God bless your family. Also agree 100% with your statement.
 
GeoFisher
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08/15/2018 08:19PM  
I took my daughter on 7 of my FAVORITE boundary Waters trips. She's been with me on trips where it was just her and I, but to be honest she was a little older on those.

I remember the first trip I took her on. It was a family cabin trip to Kawishiwi Lodge . AFter the trip, she told me she absolutely loved it, and absolutely loved going into lake one to fish, but "that was not what I did".

So, the very next year, I planned a multi portage, multi lake, multi campsite trip with her and a few friends........

She absolutely loved it, and went the next 7 years. Some of my fondest memories.
 
dicecupmaker
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08/15/2018 08:35PM  
Worry, is like praying for bad things to happen.
 
08/15/2018 09:50PM  
Canoearoo: "All 3 of my kids wear an emergency whistle around their neck. They know if they blow 3 times, pause and blow 3 times and keep doing it someone will come to help. They also know that the whistle is not for playing with. It's to get help or scare away bears.


I read a story from a while ago. A mom, daughter (age 8 I believe) and grandma went canoe camping. Over night a storm blew up and a tree fell, pinning mom and grandma. 8 year old got her whistle and began to do 3 blows, break and then 3 again. She kept at it and 30 minutes later near by campers showed up and freed the adults who were not hurt.



All this to say nothing will happen, they will be fine. We have done well over 50 bwca trips and never once needed help. But I make sure our kids know how to use the whistle. It gives them confidence to know how they can get help. "


+1 We wear whistles too.
 
mc2mens
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08/15/2018 10:40PM  
No prob, mom. I've been going on trips with my son since he was 8. He's now 17 and has been on more than 20 trips. He could organize and lead his own trip now with his friends. Sounds like your husband is an experienced paddler/camper. They will be fine.
 
poobah
member (32)member
  
08/16/2018 12:52PM  
SailorMom,

I took my 10 year old son last Fall, and it was a new experience for me to be with someone who essentially couldn't help very much with the hard work of wilderness canoe tripping - yet added a big responsibility for me. I brought my SAT phone, and we had a class on how to use it the first night out. There were tears when he realized what "using it" would mean - that Dad's out of commission - but we both felt like it was an important safety tool that he needed to feel comfortable with. He called his Mom a couple times as well, and that kind of demystified the whole thing about its use. We had an awesome trip!
 
08/16/2018 04:54PM  
SailorMom: "I should also ask: is the area around and to the north of Red Rock Lake in the burn area? Just curious."


I just camped with my son in Red Rock bay (Sag) to the north of Red Rock Lake. It was not in the burn area and we were not visited by anything other than mosquitoes in camp during the entire 4 day stay. Lovely area. Lots of forest cover. Great fishing as well. Plenty of canoeists in the area. They should be fine.
 
08/16/2018 08:00PM  
Sending your daughter to the BWCAW with her Dad is the best thing you can do for your daughter. They will be fine. They will create memories together that will last a lifetime. A satellite phone is easy to use and your daughter will have no problem making a phone call in the extremely unlikely event that she needs to use it.
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
08/17/2018 07:57AM  
SailorMom, do you feel better about things now or is it still difficult to get comfortable with the plan?
 
ChazzTheGnome
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08/17/2018 02:48PM  
Great plan, i took my seven year old daughter on a dad/daughter trip. Best long weekend of my life, and i think she had a blast as well!

she's old enough and more ready than you probably think.
 
SailorMom
  
08/17/2018 03:14PM  
Jackfish: "SailorMom, do you feel better about things now or is it still difficult to get comfortable with the plan?"

Yes, I feel better, and the advice has been awesome! Excellent responses. I think the person who came closest to stating my real concern was the one that suggested a full doctor check up for my husband. (His father had an early heart attack and two men we know have recently died suddenly of heart attacks.) My concern is that something would happen to him and she would be stranded alone with an unconscious Dad.

However, the whistles, the fact that they are planning to stay in a area where others will be, and the suggestions that she take first aid/CPR all helped. Also, they plan to tow across the big lakes to avoid the wind/wave concern.

I have been to the BWCA with my husband and friends and older daughter 3-4 times, but it was always with other adults in the party to help if something came up.
Also, every time I have gone, there have been strong thunderstorms. My husband went with a group of friends for his bachelor party as well. They were evening fishing when a sudden thunderstorm came up. While paddling back to camp, their canoe tipped, and they ended up in the lake, in the dark, behind an island from camp with no paddles or life jackets on. It ended ok, but it was scary.

So, that’s where my trepidation comes from. I just prefer they go with another dad/daughter group, as they have the last few years, but I trust his outdoor skills, and know they’ll have an awesome trip. I’ll be “camping” at our cabin!

(And Ted??Bo was the post from my husband. Ha. Yes, honey, you’re awesome!)
I’ll post (or have him post) afterwards to update everyone on how it went.

Sincere thanks for all the great advice! (And, no, I don’t consider myself a helicopter mom - but none of us think we are, right!?!) ;)
 
08/17/2018 10:07PM  
Way to go Ted??Bo... About the best thing you can do for and with your daughter. The hardest thing will be when life pulls her away and those times are memories. And Mom... Both dad and daughter will be fine. Yes bears swim to islands... But chances are they won't. And even if they do, chances are nothing will happen except a good bear story. Good your concerned, I'd go for the inreach plb with texting and everything. You could be part of the trip tracking their every move. Haha.
 
08/23/2018 03:23PM  
I've been taking my daughter on trips with just the two of us since she was 3 years old. Ten years later and over a dozen of trips since then, nothing has happened to cause worry. We started on short trips in high traffic areas and have gotten more aggressive as her abilities and paddling and portaging strength increased.

This time between dad and daughter is precious and I wouldn't worry as they will have memories for life together from this experience.
 
08/24/2018 10:08AM  
Kiporby: "I've been taking my daughter on trips with just the two of us since she was 3 years old. Ten years later and over a dozen of trips since then, nothing has happened to cause worry. We started on short trips in high traffic areas and have gotten more aggressive as her abilities and paddling and portaging strength increased.

This time between dad and daughter is precious and I wouldn't worry as they will have memories for life together from this experience. "


This dude right here and his trips with his daughter is what inspired me to start taking my daughter at age 5. Thanks again Kip!!!!!!!! My one on one trips with one of my daughters is one of my favorite times of the year!!!!!
 
08/27/2018 10:38PM  
Just make sure your husband wears his PFD all the time when paddling.

(I hope it goes without saying that your daughter will wear hers.)
 
08/28/2018 01:08PM  
Echoing the comments that hopefully husband learned the lesson of his bachelor party trip & never paddles w/o PFD secured, and passed that lesson on to your daughter.

I just came back from a 30 mile loop with my 13 year old (2nd trip) and my 6 year old (first time to the BWCA but 3rd canoe camping experience). Both had a great time & I look forward to many trips in the future with them.
 
08/28/2018 01:19PM  
I don't know when your husband and daughter were planning their trip, but I hope if they have returned, they have now told you many great stories about their wonderful adventure! Please post again after the trip and tell us all how it went!

Many of us have been thinking of you, and of them.

Spartan1 and I have just returned from a really good time in the canoe country with our 15-year-old granddaughter. We don't go out into the BWCA on an overnight trip with her, and because of my mobility issues, this time I wasn't able to do as much with her as I would have liked. Spartan1 was the one who went hiking with her at Artist's Point in Grand Marais this year, and he also paddled in the canoe with her to the Clearwater Palisades, where they climbed the 400 ft. palisade on a challenging trail (quote Spartan1, "kicked my butt", and the teenager agreed!) together. Even for that afternoon I sat back at the cabin and worried, as he can have insulin reactions, especially with unusual physical exercise. I know how to handle a crisis; would she? But it all turned out fine, and they had a wonderful hike together, although they both took very uncharacteristic "afternoon naps" at different times after their return. :-)

Sometimes we have to make sure they are prepared and then just trust. And almost all of the time it turns out fine. I am sure that your husband and daughter have made very special memories.

Incidentally, you don't sound very much like a helicopter mom to me, either. Your concerns were valid, and I hope that the people here really did give you encouragement and some valuable ideas. This community is pretty good at that in general.

 
proepro
senior member (65)senior membersenior member
  
08/30/2018 06:25PM  
Sounds like mom and daughter should take a Red Cross first aid and CPR course.
 
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