I want to hear the thoughts on fastest conoe for a skilled and athletic paddler for 4-14 day trips on the BWCA and an occasional moderate sized river. I'm 6' and 175lb. My dog is a GR at 80lb. I like to pack as light as possible at max weight of a 75lb pack and in many cases hopefully much less. Also, I want to single portage as much as possible. On the radar is the Wenonah Pism and Wenonah Voyager as well as the Swift Shearwater. Ok to entertain thoughts on average cruising top speed with moderate effort with a skilled paddler vs full steam top speed, but hoping for best of both speed worlds. Why fast you ask? It is because I can always relax and go slow, and trust me I'll do plenty of that. But when I want to go I want to GO!! Also, half the time I'll be going with friends in their tandems and I want to be able to take my own conoe and be able to keep up as easily as possible.

Anecdotes and opinions welcomed.
Thank you!

Considering your size, the Voyageur is likely the fastest of the listed boats . Dog must be well behaved. I would add the Savage River Blackwater to the list. Lighter- maybe slightly quicker than the Voyageur (emphasis on maybe). Any of the mentioned boats (including Shearwater and Prism) can keep pace with a tandem with a capable paddler. Prism and Shearwater probably more comfortable with the dog due to stability. Shearwater prettier than the Prism. Voyageur has lots of freeboard- may be a wind problem when you trip without dog. Both Voyageur and Blackwater will flat out GO.

Wenonah Advantage is faster than either of those, but your big dog might be a deal breaker on that. I also think the Prism might be on the small side and it's has average speed. That leaves the Voyager which I have yet paddled but on paper it seems to be the best choice

Considering your desire for a stability, light weight and speed there is only one boat I’d look at, Savage River Blackwater. Despite its speed I found the blackwater shockingly stable.

I've had quite a few solos over the years and almost always carry a dog. I'm also about the same size and weight as you and I paddle a lot and often push the boats. I've had a 10 year old along with the dog in my Shearwater which took it to about 330 pounds at the time and it handled it well, so I know that it would handle your max load and anything a bit less effortlessly...well within it's comfort range. There are not that many solos that are comfy with that load. With the sliding seat it is easy to trim. It handles waves and big water and nasty weather well. It cruises efficiently but is not in the same class as a Wenonah or Savage River bullet. It turns on a dime like a much shorter boat. I also sometimes push my boats near their hull speed and some boats push back very hard when they hit their wall but the Shearwater has a "soft wall" so you can always push it a little harder and it makes a fine boat for a workout. I have quicker solos but the Shearwater was just fine to take a few days ago on an upstream paddle where the current is around 3 mph. I think I know which boat your dog would prefer.

Banksiana: "Considering your size, the Voyageur is likely the fastest of the listed boats. Dog must be well behaved. Voyageur has lots of free-board may be a wind problem when you trip without dog. Both Voyageur and Blackwater will flat out GO."

I can't speak for the performance of the Blackwater or the Shearwater, because unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to paddle either of those solo canoes. But from what I have heard from owner's of those solo canoes, Banksiana's evaluation seems right-on.

A Kevlar Flex-Core Voyager has been my primary solo tripper since 2004 for both "Canoe Country" and the bigger rivers here in Wisconsin. I also occasionally paddle with a Golden Retriever. As Banksiana mentioned, it's very do-able if the dog is well behaved. That's not to say the dog has to be a statue, but it would be somewhat problematic if the dog is prone to wanting to jump out of the canoe or moves around a considerable amount. I'm 6' 4", 210lbs and I have not had a problem paddling with my Golden's in the Voyager; loaded or unloaded.

Although not mentioned in your original post, the Wenonah Encounter @ 17' is also a great solo canoe that meets your criteria. I purchased a used Ultra-light Kevlar Encounter for my son a few years ago. The Encounter has more volume and initial stability than the Voyager. Although not as fast the Voyager, it's no slouch. I'd compare it's speed and performance to be more like that of the Prism. I have paddled Prisms and the Advantage and I much prefer the Voyager's performance and capacity to either of those two solo canoes.

As far as the Voyager or the Encounter being a problem in the wind; in my opinion that issue is somewhat over-stated. If Voyager and Encounter are trimmed properly, even without a load, those two solo canoes are not as unwieldy as many paddlers make them out to be. My son is 6' 4" and 175lbs. and often paddles his Encounter without a load on the local lakes and streams near our home. He will also paddle with our Golden, with or without a load.

We live in an area of Waukesha County nicknamed "Lake Country", for obvious reasons. Many of the bigger lakes are like the large lakes in "Canoe Country" and they are affected by strong East-West winds. A few of the lakes are also prone to motor traffic on busy summer weekends. Neither my son or I have found the size and volume of the Voyager and the Encounter to be a major liability.

Just my two cents! :-)

Hans Solo

Blatz, why do you say the Advantage is faster than the Voyager? I have only paddled a Voyager but the specifications would indicate it would be faster than the Advantage.....

A loaded Voyager will be "ok" in the wind, but my dogs would tip me often in a Voyager, hopefully your dog is better behaved.

Between the voyager and the blackwater, which would be best suited for gear and a moderately behaved dog or wind in the BWCA? Maybe some, maybe many, would say neither, but if I had to choose. For instance, compared to a Prism or Shearwater are they (voyager, blackwater) even safely sea/bwca worthy? Are we talking dangerous?
Everyone's comments have been very valuable so far.
Thank you!

I love the pictures with the dog. Well behaved dog, or does it matter in your shearwater canoe?

HansSolo: "

Banksiana: "Considering your size, the Voyageur is likely the fastest of the listed boats. Dog must be well behaved. Voyageur has lots of freeboard- may be a wind problem when you trip without dog. Both Voyageur and Blackwater will flat out GO."

I can't speak for the performance of the Blackwater or the Shearwater, because unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to paddle either of those solo canoes. But from what I have heard from owner's of those solo canoes, Banksiana's evaluation seems right-on.

A Kevlar Flex-Core Voyager has been my primary solo tripper since 2004 for both "Canoe Country" and the bigger rivers here in Wisconsin. I also occasionally paddle with a Golden Retriever. As Banksiana mentioned, it's very do-able if the dog is well behaved. That's not to say the dog has to be a statue, but it would be somewhat problematic if the dog is prone to wanting to jump out of the canoe or moves around a considerable amount. I'm 6' 4", 210lbs and I have not had a problem paddling with my Golden's in the Voyager; loaded or unloaded.

Although not mentioned in your original post, the Wenonah Encounter @ 17' is also a great solo canoe that meets your criteria. I purchased a used Ultra-light Kevlar Encounter for my son a few years ago. It has more volume and initial stability than the Encounter. Although not as fast the Voyager, it's no slouch. I'd compare it's speed and performance to be more like that of the Prism. I have paddled Prisms and the Advantage and I much prefer the Voyager's performance and capacity to either of those two solo canoes.

As far as the Voyager or the Encounter being a problem in the wind; in my opinion that issue is somewhat over-stated. If Voyager and Encounter are trimmed properly, even without a load, those two solo canoes are not as unwieldy as many paddlers make them out to be. My son is 6' 4" and 175lbs. and often paddles his Encounter without a load on the local lakes and streams near our home. He will also paddle with our Golden, with or without a load.

We live in an area of Waukesha County nicknamed "Lake Country", for obvious reasons. Many of the bigger lakes are like the large lakes in "Canoe Country" and they are affected by strong East-West winds. A few of the lakes are also prone to motor traffic on busy summer weekends. Neither my son or I have found the size and volume of the Voyager and the Encounter to be a major liability.

Just my two cents! :-)

Hans Solo

Hans, it already looks like you answered my question about the dog and the wind. I missed it. There appears to be issues with this site and my phone. Anyhow, you are beginning to make me a believer in the Voyager.

The Blackwater feels very steady, it can be leaned to turn and takes a licking in the waves. I did not paddle it with a dog but would be comfortable with it if I was able to keep the hull in trim. And it weighs in at around 23#.

You are going pretty slow if you are windbound...
Check out the Savage River Falcon, and decked version of the Blackwater. A smaller pack will fit behind the paddler (not a 60L barrel or a big portage pack, but a normal portage pack will). Dog can sit in front of you.

I mention the Falcon because it is a sub 40 pound boat. MY boats are about 55 pounds and are even more seaworthy--Kruger Sea Wind, Mad River Monarch, or Sawyer Loon. They are also pretty quick boats and being equipped with a rudder, they scoff at wind and waves.

Somebody had to mention these, right? :)
Joe

DbHiker: "I love the pictures with the dog. Well behaved dog, or does it matter in your shearwater canoe?"

The dog is reasonably well behaved for a coonhound. The Shearwater isn't disturbed by dog movements as much as smaller solos...I have an Osprey and some others too. I attached an old pic of my previous dog in my previous Shearwater..she was a lab around 65-70 pounds and would often lay sideways while the coonhound mutt is 55-60 and so tall that she has to lay lengthwise. But even with the coonhound I can do sit and switch paddling with no problem even when she is sitting up. I like that someone else mentioned some boats where the dog can sit in front of you. I like to kneel and it seems nice to have the dog in front so you can experience stuff together...like watching geese a few days ago. Some of the super fast boats you are considering are made for sitting and look like the dog would have to ride behind you.

joewildlife: "You are going pretty slow if you are windbound...
Check out the Savage River Falcon, and decked version of the Blackwater. A smaller pack will fit behind the paddler (not a 60L barrel or a big portage pack, but a normal portage pack will). Dog can sit in front of you.


I mention the Falcon because it is a sub 40 pound boat. MY boats are about 55 pounds and are even more seaworthy--Kruger Sea Wind, Mad River Monarch, or Sawyer Loon. They are also pretty quick boats and being equipped with a rudder, they scoff at wind and waves.


Somebody had to mention these, right? :)

Joe
"

I had a Canak and would not recommend a decked canoe for the BW. The cons outweigh the pros

Banksiana: "The Blackwater feels very steady, it can be leaned to turn and takes a licking in the waves. I did not paddle it with a dog but would be comfortable with it if I was able to keep the hull in trim. And it weighs in at around 23#."

Shorter, faster, lighter, bwca ready, able to lean and turn, less finicky in the wind, and shockingly stable. It seems the blackwater has the edge over the voyager in nearly every aspect, replacing the voyager as the new benchmark. Is there any area other than possibly price where the voyager takes the edge?!

Thanks guys!
Daniel

Nope

"
I had a Canak and would not recommend a decked canoe for the BW. The cons outweigh the pros "

I can't speak to your experience with a Canak, but...
The only con for me of a Kruger design is the weight. That is largely offset by the fact they have an excellent portage yoke and balance perfectly, and the cockpit rim gives you a wonderful grip when picking the canoe up and getting it on your shoulders. They actually are easy to carry. You can fit a big pack like a CCS Hybrid Guide, Granite Gear Superior, or 60L barrel pack behind the paddler with no issue. Smaller bags in front of the paddler. They are not like kayaks where portage packs don't work.
Note, I must say I don't double carry a pack and a canoe, so won't claim the weight or design is good for that. Might not be.

I've been to BWCA/Quetico/WCPP ten times using Sea Winds, Mad River Monarchs, and Sawyer Loons and wouldn't do it any other way.

Joe

bmaines: "Nope"

Hah! Brevity!

Voyager vs. Blackwater= I have owned the one for 10+ years, and paddled the other twice, the differences you will notice is that the Voyager can be had for less money (especially used), the Blackwater weighs less and will be less affected by wind
you will be happy with either, if money is no object get the Blackwater

you didn't mention it but neither are fishing boats, consequently you MAY want to consider other boats if that is an interest, keep in mind the difference in speed between these two rockets and other "slower" boats really isn't that much, after all 6 mph in a canoe is fast, 7 is the speed of light

I'll throw in the Swift Cruiser.
I know most of you are in Wenonah country and love what you know but this entry should blow any away.. If the dog likes it

It is all about the dog and how the dog likes more confinement. Some get antsy some fall asleep..

Swift Cruiser

DbHiker: "

Banksiana: "The Blackwater feels very steady, it can be leaned to turn and takes a licking in the waves. I did not paddle it with a dog but would be comfortable with it if I was able to keep the hull in trim. And it weighs in at around 23#."

Shorter, faster, lighter, bwca ready, able to lean and turn, less finicky in the wind, and shockingly stable. It seems the blackwater has the edge over the voyager in nearly every aspect, replacing the voyager as the new benchmark. Is there any area other than possibly price where the voyager takes the edge?!


Thanks guys!
Daniel"

The Blackwater sounds like your boat. One thing to check is capacity. The Voyageur is 14 inches deep and based on the description it is made to take a big load. The Blackwater is 12 inches deep although it looks like you can order it with an extra inch. The description on their site says nothing about carrying big loads. Your planned max load of 330 pounds is high for a solo and many solos would feel overloaded...you're even 10 pounds over the recommended range for the Swift Shearwater and Cruiser and those are high capacity solos. I suggest that you test paddle with your intended max load.

Although not the Savage River Blackwater, Sawyer's DY Special shares similar design characteristics and specifications. Likewise for Sawyer's Shockwave, which is essentially a more shallow version of the Swift Cruiser with less rocker.

During the 80's my primary tripping solo canoe was a Sawyer DY Special. At that time, I had an English Setter that weighed in the mid to upper 50's. She went everywhere with my wife and I and often rode in the stern of my Sawyer DY Special and Shockwave.

Although English Setters are not as hyper as their Irish counterpart, she also was the calmest dog either. That said, she rarely wanted to jump out of the canoe, unless near shore, and understood her place in a canoe. It also helped the she was restricted to the stern which had very little effect on the stability of the aforementioned solo canoes, but it was sometimes difficult to get the ideal trim with her so far aft.

Aside from trips on local rivers, she rode in the stern of my DY Special on many Quetico and BWCAW trips. Even when surfing a following sea on Cache Bay or paddling in whitecaps on lakes such as Brule and Gabimichigami, I always felt secure with my Setter onboard in those solo canoes.

Hans Solo

yellowcanoe: "I'll throw in the Swift Cruiser.
I know most of you are in Wenonah country and love what you know but this entry should blow any away.. If the dog likes it


It is all about the dog and how the dog likes more confinement. Some get antsy some fall asleep..


Swift Cruiser "

Cruise specifications from the Swift website:

With a 1" bow rocker and 5" stern rocker it must feel like paddling downhill all day.

HansSolo: "
Although not the Savage River Blackwater, Sawyer's DY Special shares similar design characteristics and specifications. Likewise for Sawyer's Shockwave, which is essentially a more shallow version of the Swift Cruiser with less rocker.

During the 80's my primary tripping solo canoe was a Sawyer DY Special. At that time, I had an English Setter that weighed in the mid to upper 50's. She went everywhere with my wife and I and often rode in the stern of my Sawyer DY Special and Shockwave.

Although English Setters are not as hyper as their Irish counterpart, she also was the calmest dog either. That said, she rarely wanted to jump out of the canoe, unless near shore, and understood her place in a canoe. It also helped the she was restricted to the stern which had very little effect on the stability of the aforementioned solo canoes, but it was sometimes difficult to get the ideal trim with her so far aft.

Aside from trips on local rivers, she rode in the stern of my DY Special on many Quetico and BWCAW trips. Even when surfing a following sea on Cache Bay or paddling in whitecaps on lakes such as Brule and Gabimichigami, I always felt secure with my Setter onboard in those solo canoes.



Hans Solo
Beautiful Canoe




"

jdmccurry: "

yellowcanoe: "I'll throw in the Swift Cruiser.
I know most of you are in Wenonah country and love what you know but this entry should blow any away.. If the dog likes it



It is all about the dog and how the dog likes more confinement. Some get antsy some fall asleep..



Swift Cruiser "

Cruise specifications from the Swift website:

With a 1" bow rocker and 5" stern rocker it must feel like paddling downhill all day."

I think you missed the point. . . No really the point as in point 5 or 1/2". The Swift Cruiser is David Yost's latest version of the storied DYSpecial/Shockwave with more rocker and a tucked in front cockpit per Bill Swift Jr. I didn't see that it was 1" deeper but I knew about the rocker change. I'm not a fan of the Wenonah sliding seat hardware and, admittedly, Swift needs to rework their sliding seat hardware for the Cruiser since it digs into your calves when you are seated at the rearward extent of the slide. In the end, the dog will decide which boat you can get away with since its acceptance of its station in the boat will make or break the deal. Too many dog owners overestimate their dog's tollerance to confinement. Best of luck.
Bob former Rutabaga staff member
Owner of DYSpecial, Shockwave, Shearwater, Northwind Solo,and many other solos and tandems now and throughout the years. But just small dogs <20#.

jazzman1161: "

jdmccurry: "

yellowcanoe: "I'll throw in the Swift Cruiser.
I know most of you are in Wenonah country and love what you know but this entry should blow any away.. If the dog likes it



It is all about the dog and how the dog likes more confinement. Some get antsy some fall asleep..



Swift Cruiser "

Cruise specifications from the Swift website:

With a 1" bow rocker and 5" stern rocker it must feel like paddling downhill all day."

I think you missed the point. . . No really the point as in point 5 or 1/2". The Swift Cruiser is David Yost's latest version of the storied DYSpecial/Shockwave with more rocker and a tucked in front cockpit per Bill Swift Jr. I didn't see that it was 1" deeper but I knew about the rocker change. I'm not a fan of the Wenonah sliding seat hardware and, admittedly, Swift needs to rework their sliding seat hardware for the Cruiser since it digs into your calves when you are seated at the rearward extent of the slide. In the end, the dog will decide which boat you can get away with since its acceptance of its station in the boat will make or break the deal. Too many dog owners overestimate their dog's tollerance to confinement. Best of luck.
Bob former Rutabaga staff member
Owner of DYSpecial, Shockwave, Shearwater, Northwind Solo,and many other solos and tandems now and throughout the years. But just small dogs <20#."

I think you missed the point...I was making a tongue-in-cheek joke. There is obviously a typo in Swift's spec sheet. They left out a leading "0" on the stern rocker figure. I bet it should read 0.5", but without the "0" it looks like 5". As an "Owner of DYSpecial, Shockwave, Shearwater, Northwind Solo,and many other solos and tandems now and throughout the years" I'm sure you recognize a canoe with a 1" bow rocker and 5" stern rocker would be a bit unwieldy.

I didn't read the responses but in my opinion you won't notice very much, if any, speed difference in any boats of this class for the usage you're talking about and over the course of a day portages will really equal things out. I'm all for taking your dog but with that load you won't be setting speed records in any boat

Forget about single portages. People are always asking about single portaging but it's not an easy thing to attain. Not that it can't be done but most people find it more enjoyable (and safer) to double portage. Walking unknown, rough, and slippery trails with 75 pounds of pack weight and a 35# canoe on your shoulders (which severely limits your ability to see where you're going) is not an easy task. Take the pack over first to learn the trail and clear any obstructions out of the way and carry the canoe last. Portage trails are a nice change of pace from being on the water and if you only walk them with a canoe on your head you'll miss out on a lot.

All that being said I like to paddle the same way you do. I pack pretty light and take my dog on my trips. I'll paddle slow and site see at times but I like paddling hard and when I want to go I want to go. Technique and conditioning will make the biggest difference for you. Prism, Magic, Voyager, Blackwater, the new Cruiser.....get whatever makes you happy and feels comfortable but with a tripping load in tripping conditions none is going to blow away any of the others.

80 pounds is a lot of dog. Make sure you get something with enough bow volume that it'll be comfortable all day and have some room to move around a little. The days can get long for a dog in a canoe, which is another good reason for double portaging.

Alan