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      Outfitters charge to watch the Leave No Trace video?     
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frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/24/2018 10:16AM
I was shocked when we were charged $2 last week to watch the Leave No Trace video at an Outfitter. Been going into the BWCA for 15 years and have never been charged, including our spring 2018 trip.

Is this something new?
 
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nofish
distinguished member(2774)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/24/2018 11:12AM
I've never been charged. When I've gone out through an outfitter they've asked if I've seen the video. When I say yes thats good enough for them and they don't show it. I've only seen it when getting a permit at one of the ranger stations.
Mocha
distinguished member(7257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/24/2018 12:40PM
it's not new. outfitters have had to option of charging an additional $2 to issue a permit if they did not reserve it for you. never heard of charging to watch video. was there popcorn? is it the new video?
frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/24/2018 01:26PM
Mocha:
it's not new. outfitters have had to option of charging an additional $2 to issue a permit if they did not reserve it for you. never heard of charging to watch video. was there popcorn? is it the new video?"


They did mention that they have the option to charge the $2 but it was not mentioned when we picked up and paid for the permit. It was brought up after we watched the video? We thought they were joking.

I had the permit transferred to the outfitter (like most trips) because of the more flexible hours and it's usually a one-stop shop for bait/tackle, souvenirs, and last minute gear. The action simply left a bad taste in my mouth after we spent between $50-100 on shirts and gear. It's not the $2 that bothers me, it's the principal. And no popcorn!

As I mentioned before this was a first time occurrence. We've used many different outfitters to obtain our permit over the years. This particular outfitter will not be obtaining our business in the future.
bwcadan
distinguished member(1278)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/24/2018 04:02PM
Would be surprised if the outfitter is a sponsor here. Would I be correct?
09/24/2018 05:20PM
I’ve never heard of such a thing.
joshmontague
senior member (60)senior membersenior member
 
09/24/2018 05:38PM
It makes since if you're not making a purchase, I suppose. I've been guilty of that . But adding a $2 fee to a decent purchase is dumb.
4keys
distinguished member(582)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/24/2018 06:24PM
We've never had to pay that. We always do buy something at the outfitters, even if it's just leeches . I would guess most don't charge because they do want your business, and the permit/ video is one way to get you in the door.

The other point of view is that it does cost the outfitter something for the permit and time of an employee. If they process a lot of permits each day that time can add up.
unshavenman
distinguished member(1057)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 09:37AM
I've never been charged to watch the video. It would be kinda nice to know which outfitter/s charging so people can plan accordingly.....
nofish
distinguished member(2774)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 10:27AM
Seems like a petty way to make $2. I get that it takes a few minutes of an employees time to show the video but $2 isn't going to make a break a business. In my opinion it has potential to do more harm than good. Customers don't like feeling like they are getting nickle and dimed to death and charging $2 to push play seems like just that.

frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/25/2018 11:05AM
bwcadan: "Would be surprised if the outfitter is a sponsor here. Would I be correct?"

I wasn't sure if they are a sponsor here so I chose not to name the outfitter. It doesn't look like they are a sponsor, however they are listed in the outfitter and lodging sections of the site.

If I can name of the outfitter without ruffling any feathers, I certainly will.
Savage Voyageur
distinguished member(13212)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished membermaster membermaster member
 
09/25/2018 11:07AM
I don’t see anything wrong with an outfitter charging extra for issuing you a permit. It’s no different than going into a bait store to only buy fishing license, or a outdoor store to only buy a hunting license.

Here is an exact example...Let’s say I go into Fleet Farm and buy blaze orange jacket and bibs, Rifle, ammo, knife and a hunting license. I just spent $1500 dollars. They are still going to charge me the $2 or $5 dollar license issue fee to me. Even though I go to Fleet Farn every week and spend hundreds of dollars each year.

It is a convenient way for you to get a permit and save you time and sometimes gas money driving to a ranger station. They are doing you a favor and a service using thier computer, paper, ink, or phone line, time wasted by the employee getting you a permit. I’m surprised it’s not more money. No it’s not going to make or break an outfitter but it would add up if you looked at the number of permits issued every summer. That permit they issued you is no different than a tee shirt, fishing lure, canoe rental, or anything else that they sell. It’s a product with a cheap $2.00 price tag.

The original poster said that they will not be back to that outfitter because of the $2.00 charge. We I’ve got a news flash for him, the next outfitter you go to will do the same exact thing.
Mocha
distinguished member(7257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/25/2018 11:59AM
fishing licenses state there is a service or process fee, not sure if it;s a dollar or more.

you could say that the $2 goes toward purchasing toner ink. the USFS provides the fancy paper but that is it. the paper can only be used for printing permits and any screwups printing ... that piece of paper needs to be added to the file. must be accounted for.

in my previous life as an outfitter we never charged the $2. rarely did we issue a permit when the guest didn't make another purchase.
ozarkpaddler
distinguished member(5425)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/25/2018 01:01PM
Never been charged and never thought about it. BUT, when you think about it, "Reservation.gov" charges for your permit and they aren't investing a "Live" employee to take care of you. IMHO, $2 is really under-charging for the service regardless of what you spend extra?
frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/25/2018 01:15PM
We could have easily picked up our permit at the ranger station a couple miles away. I typically enjoy grabbing bait, talking to the outfitter, get a fishing report, souvenirs, ect.

I can easily grab bait in Harris on my way up, get my fishing report online, and souvenirs from the gift shop down the road (which the wife also did on the way out). This outfitter won't be receiving our usual $50-100 purchase in the future.
OCDave
distinguished member (192)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 03:23PM
ozarkpaddler: "Never been charged and never thought about it. BUT, when you think about it, "Reservation.gov" charges for your permit and they aren't investing a "Live" employee to take care of you. IMHO, $2 is really under-charging for the service regardless of what you spend extra?"

Is there a requirement that outfitters issue permits? Or, do outfitters offer permits as an opprtunity to attract other business? IMHO charging $2 to give me something for which I have already paid will always result in that being the last $2 that estabishment will receive from me.

billconner
distinguished member(6800)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/25/2018 04:40PM
A little off topic but do many outfitters charge an "outfitting fee" in addition to the specific items and services? I dont really look at the invoice but i thought i saw a several percent added fee, on top of some purchases, lidging, and maybe a couple of rental items. Or maybe it was the video we didnt watch again.
bwcadan
distinguished member(1278)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 05:23PM
frlu0501: "I was shocked when we were charged $2 last week to watch the Leave No Trace video at an Outfitter. Been going into the BWCA for 15 years and have never been charged, including our spring 2018 trip.

Is this something new? "



Maybe I am missing something, but the topic of charging for a permit is not quite the same as charging for viewing the video. I have no problem with a charge for the permit service at an outfitters, but viewing the film seems like quite a stretch to do a charge.
mjmkjun
distinguished member(2170)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 05:42PM
frlu0501: "We could have easily picked up our permit at the ranger station a couple miles away. I typically enjoy grabbing bait, talking to the outfitter, get a fishing report, souvenirs, ect.


I can easily grab bait in Harris on my way up, get my fishing report online, and souvenirs from the gift shop down the road (which the wife also did on the way out). This outfitter won't be receiving our usual $50-100 purchase in the future.
"

Yep. Unnecessary roughing of the paddlers. Flag on that play, Mr. Outfitter. :-D
Boundary Boy
distinguished member (163)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 06:38PM
Yep. Unnecessary roughing of the paddlers. Flag on that play, Mr. Outfitter. :-D

Agree with that in both cases.
09/25/2018 07:26PM
I've got a few canoes worth a couple thousand. A good couple hundred more in packs, tents, gear. I spend a fair amount on gas, meals and lodging to get up there. At any one time, I have at least $2 in change in my pocket. If people who support my passions want it, they can have it. Big picture....
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2611)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/25/2018 09:52PM
The Forest Service does allow for a $2.00 permit issuing fee. I believe that they allow it because (like someone else mentioned) that the Forest Service only provides the paper and permit cooperators have to have: the computer, the printer, the ink, the phone/Internet connection and the employee time.

That being said, I think most outfitters, VNO included, do not charge for any "regular" customers, those who are renting, buying bait, coming in to buy showers or make purchases.

But we do sometimes charge for people that come in once or twice a year, just picking up their permit with us and getting nothing else. We don't always charge but it varies. We often have people come in very near closing time and just want to get their permit issued. Of course, that is one of the services we provide but we reserve the right to at least make $2.00 for that visit.

If someone charged for the video, then I think it may have been meant to say that the fee for the issuing of the permit was the fee since you would be asked to watch the video unless you had gotten a permit issued. And I'm glad that you were made to view the video if you hadn't seen it this year or last. I hear (from many customers) who said when going to other areas of the BWCA or to other permit cooperators, that they haven't had to watch the video for quite a few years and were not asked if they had seen it before. The Forest Service would not be too happy with those companies.

09/25/2018 10:22PM
cowdoc: "I've got a few canoes worth a couple thousand. A good couple hundred more in packs, tents, gear. I spend a fair amount on gas, meals and lodging to get up there. At any one time, I have at least $2 in change in my pocket. If people who support my passions want it, they can have it. Big picture...."

+1 - I'd probably give an internal chuckle at the thought of it, but I agree w/cowdoc - what's $2 in the long run. I also agree with w/VNO - if you're just picking up your permit, and aren't buying bait, or even something in the shop then again, what's $2? You're supporting a local business that is supporting you.

I think if you name the outfitter - you run the risk of ruffling feathers, so if it were me - I wouldn't.
inspector13
distinguished member(4059)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/26/2018 07:31AM

Ruffled feathers are only good in a pillow.

ozarkpaddler
distinguished member(5425)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/26/2018 07:55AM
OCDave: "ozarkpaddler: "Never been charged and never thought about it. BUT, when you think about it, "Reservation.gov" charges for your permit and they aren't investing a "Live" employee to take care of you. IMHO, $2 is really under-charging for the service regardless of what you spend extra?"


Is there a requirement that outfitters issue permits? Or, do outfitters offer permits as an opprtunity to attract other business? IMHO charging $2 to give me something for which I have already paid will always result in that being the last $2 that estabishment will receive from me.


"


Well, the thing is you haven't paid the person doing the paperwork. Again, I've never been charged myself and had it happen to me I'd probably feel the same way....at first. Then, after reflection, $2 seems a nominal fee for their "Investment?"
THEGrandRapids
member (50)member
 
09/26/2018 11:12AM
I agree with everyone. I see it both ways. For all the talk about the tourism industry supporting the entirety of the local economy- does this make sense to have a bad taste in your mouth? $2 won't make or break a company- but that may have the same logic as a single vote doesn't count. It really doesn't, but collectively it does. I'm torn- I get that these companies need to be supported- but at least make me buy something in addition to the $100 I've already spent- like a $4.95 sticker than only costs you $0.30 to stock.

I have a lifetime sportsmen license and it states that issuers can charge $1 to issue the permit- never has happened, but I wouldn't gripe about it.

Someone else mentioned the $10 recreation.gov fee... and how about the MN state park reservation fees? These put a really bad taste in my mouth.
mr.barley
distinguished member(7420)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/26/2018 05:16PM
I think there should be a cartoon before the video.
OCDave
distinguished member (192)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/26/2018 05:19PM
I went out for dinner with the Mrs. this week to a small local restaurant. Added to our bill but, never acknowledged nor mentioned was a 3.5% charge for healthcare. While I STRONGLY believe everyone should have health insurance, I resent the method. This is a small establishment, dependent upon repeat business that will never know why I didn't come back.

A $2 charge, as mentioned previously, is nominal with respect to the investment I've made in a trip to the BWCA but, it would dissuade me from returning to this outfitter. I'll pay you $2 once but, you will never know why I didn't come back.
billconner
distinguished member(6800)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/26/2018 06:02PM
I would never have guessed this topic would have such legs.
VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2611)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/26/2018 06:11PM
That 3.5% reminded me of someone who contacted me about our credit card processing. Gave me all sorts of promises about lowering my costs each month and then.... Told me that my processing would automatically charge 3% more than the bill for people paying with a card and I'd get some partial credit of that towards my billing. Says it is like gas stations that offer one price for cash & a higher price for cards. I told him I didn't like that idea and even though he was "sure" no one would mind, I told him that customers would be very unhappy. He said, "Oh, it is on the credit card as an extra processing fee. We have lots of companies we have turned over to doing that". I politely (I think) told him that I would not be joining that list of companies>

VoyageurNorth
distinguished member(2611)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/26/2018 06:19PM
"


Is there a requirement that outfitters issue permits? Or, do outfitters offer permits as an opprtunity to attract other business? IMHO charging $2 to give me something for which I have already paid will always result in that being the last $2 that estabishment will receive from me.


"

In the agreement to be a cooperator, you are required to issue a permit to anyone who has sent it to you or if someone comes in & has the permit transferred to your online account. You are also required to make sure they see the video if they haven't seen it in the last 1-2 years. You also are required to do it online so you must have a computer etcetera. It does help to get customers in the door too but if you want to be able to issue permits to your own customers you are required to do it for anyone who comes in. The Forest Service doesn't offer any reimbursement or payment and the Fishing Licenses do automatically pay $1.00 for any license we sell.
nooneuno
distinguished member (460)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/26/2018 08:14PM
frlu0501: "I was shocked when we were charged $2 last week to watch the Leave No Trace video at an Outfitter. Been going into the BWCA for 15 years and have never been charged, including our spring 2018 trip.

Is this something new? "


Shocked and appalled that an outfitter would try to help keep the lights on by providing a service like this they should do it for free just to make you happy. Next time pick up your'e permit from the forest service office, the video there is free, of course you have to do it during their government hours. 2 bucks? 2 bucks? 2 whole bucks for Christ's sake.......
ComplaintDepartment
Guest Paddler
 
09/26/2018 08:43PM
can't believe the things people dream up to complain about here

perhaps this particular outfitter thinks he should charge 2 bucks because the government requires him to show it to you, and that's his way of proving to the government he did what was required and also to remind you that it is the government, not him, that requires this

it does cost him money to show it to you, and at 2 bucks he's likely losing money
GhostPaddler
Guest Paddler
 
09/26/2018 10:08PM
ComplaintDepartment: "can't believe the things people dream up to complain about here


perhaps this particular outfitter thinks he should charge 2 bucks because the government requires him to show it to you, and that's his way of proving to the government he did what was required and also to remind you that it is the government, not him, that requires this


it does cost him money to show it to you, and at 2 bucks he's likely losing money"


I'd like to lodge a complaint! I don't think one should be able to post without first logging on. After all, what value is an opinion if you're unwilling to own up to it?

See what I did there?
09/27/2018 05:43AM
I don't see the outfitters driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar. I'm sure some or most do OK, but what I see is hard working people with a love of the outdoors, trying to serve others like us. I haven't been charged to watch the video, but I'd get it if I was.

I've seen a couple of threads over the past few years complaining about some outfitters, maybe rightfully so, maybe not.

I'd love to see a thread of outfitters telling stories about their worst/strangest/hardest to please customers....that would be a good read.
billconner
distinguished member(6800)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/27/2018 06:16AM
OCDave: "ozarkpaddler: "Never been charged and never thought about it. BUT, when you think about it, "Reservation.gov" charges for your permit and they aren't investing a "Live" employee to take care of you. IMHO, $2 is really under-charging for the service regardless of what you spend extra?"


Is there a requirement that outfitters issue permits? Or, do outfitters offer permits as an opprtunity to attract other business? IMHO charging $2 to give me something for which I have already paid will always result in that being the last $2 that estabishment will receive from me.


"


Lynn answered a part, if you want to issue permits to anyone, you must make the service available to all. But I'd be pretty sure there is no statuatory requirement that any bussiness of any type issue permits.

I dont know what the requirements are to be a cooperator and isdue permits though. Could any of us, or at least any business, become a cooperator?
nooneuno
distinguished member (460)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/27/2018 08:26AM
johndku: "I don't see the outfitters driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar"

That's only because you obviously don't travel in the same social circles as the outfitters. The last time I stopped in up at Voyeur's North I was forced to park my truck and canoe trailer at the gas station next door because Lynn's chauffeur had her limo parked sideways taking up all the spots in front, I twice asked him to move but still he refused, I soon found out why when her butler came out pushing a wheelbarrow full of 2 dollar bills to load in the trunk, apparently this is their daily 6 am ritual. Believe you me when I heard this I went elsewhere to purchase my 6 crappie minnows, that'll teach them.....
Mocha
distinguished member(7257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/27/2018 08:36AM
bill, you don't even want to see the list of requirements to be/remain a "cooperator". it's many many pages.... almost a ream of paper.
09/27/2018 09:49AM
nooneuno: "johndku: "I don't see the outfitters driving around in Ferrari's and eating caviar"


That's only because you obviously don't travel in the same social circles as the outfitters. The last time I stopped in up at Voyeur's North I was forced to park my truck and canoe trailer at the gas station next door because Lynn's driver had her limo parked sideways taking up all the spots in front, I twice asked him to move but still he refused, I soon found out why when her butler came out pushing a wheelbarrow full of 2 dollar bills to load in the trunk, apparently this is their daily 6 am ritual. Believe you me when I heard this I went elsewhere to purchase my 6 crappie minnows, that'll teach them....."


Nice one, you got me laughing. They must show a lot of videos!
A1t2o
distinguished member(612)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/27/2018 11:02AM
*Why was this paragraph deleted? All I said was that how the charges are presented matters more than the fact that we are getting charged, people don't want to get nickel and dimed.*

For those acting like this is blown out of proportion for only $2, this is about the principle rather than the actual cost. I think most of us on this site have relatively similar thoughts considering our shared interest. We will pay for the permits and many other items that we may or may not need, but very few of us are going to tolerate things that feel disrespectful or petty. Charging a fee to watch a video is petty and a red flag making us think "what are they going to charge us for or be cheap about next?"
09/28/2018 06:32AM
To the original poster, was this actually billed as a video charge or for the permit. Was it charged per person or group?
Sometimes people may possibly joke about what they are charging for... Or is it your take?
I recently objected to paying $1.70 for a "medium" coffee. The cup barely bigger than a little white solo... Mainly because I just spent over 1
$100 on fuel. Haha.
To me it was always worth in to get into Ely and grab a permit for $2 and get on the water at the crack of 8:00... Even at LIS. Even though I could drive to Ely in less then two hours, I started using a bunk house at vno and enjoying a little Ely before my trip... And then yeah, they waved the fee of two bucks.
adam
Moderator
 
09/28/2018 06:59AM
I can emphasize with the Outfitters because $2 is a lot to ask 95% of the people who visit this website regularly. :)
billconner
distinguished member(6800)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/28/2018 07:28AM
Was the $2 to watch the video, or was it the service fee cooperators are allowed to charge for issuing a permit? Just not sure "watching the video" wasn't an euphemism for issuing a permit. They are all part of the same thing.

No, Lynn, I can imagine the depth of regulatory requirements a federal agency has developed. Its astounding.
ozarkpaddler
distinguished member(5425)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/28/2018 07:55AM
Damn outfitters are getting as bad as the "Paperboys!"
I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS
frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/28/2018 08:20AM
I didn't think this thread would gain this much traction.

To answer a couple questions: The $2 fee was mentioned after we watched the video, we had already paid for/collected our permit and purchased some souvenirs. We initially did think she was joking and ignored the issue, it was brought it up again as we finished up our convo and were walking out; she was dead serious.

Like I said before, I've made countless trips to the BWCA almost always transferring my permit to an outfitter and never been charged this fee. After reading through this thread I can understand the fee if we bought absolutely nothing in the shop, but this was not the case. I can't remember a time we purchased absolutely nothing at an outfitter after transferring the permit.

As mentioned above, this is about the principle rather than the actual cost and they will have no idea why we never returned.
A1t2o
distinguished member(612)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
09/28/2018 01:15PM
frlu0501: "To answer a couple questions: The $2 fee was mentioned after we watched the video, we had already paid for/collected our permit and purchased some souvenirs. We initially did think she was joking and ignored the issue, it was brought it up again as we finished up our convo and were walking out; she was dead serious. "

Was it $2 each or one charge for everyone?
frlu0501
member (24)member
 
09/28/2018 01:53PM
A1t2o: "


Was it $2 each or one charge for everyone?"


$2 for the group. I'm assuming it was for the permit, not the video.
mastertangler
distinguished member(5731)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
09/28/2018 04:31PM
If I were an Outfitter I would be embarrassed to charge $2 to show a LNT video. Seems counterproductive to me. At the most I would leave a plastic jar and sheepishly state that the government suggests a $2 fee to show it but that I leave it up to the customer. If you want to chip in great, if not dont worry about it. The Outfitter could still collect a few bucks which might add up over the course of the summer while letting the consumer make the choice. Probably at least 1/2 the folks would pay something and no one would be offended.
TechnoScout
member (9)member
 
09/28/2018 05:37PM
OCDave: "I went out for dinner with the Mrs. this week to a small local restaurant. Added to our bill but, never acknowledged nor mentioned was a 3.5% charge for healthcare. While I STRONGLY believe everyone should have health insurance, I resent the method. This is a small establishment, dependent upon repeat business that will never know why I didn't come back.


You may know already...nothing is free. ACA presents great costs to individuals and businesses. If you do not purchase ACA approved insurance, the IRS will tax you. They are passing that burden along to you. Maybe that will inform your vote...maybe not. Sorry...this is OFFTOPIC but just responding.
canoeski
member (32)member
 
10/10/2018 09:48AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC1pwNeDP2E
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(1099)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
10/10/2018 04:02PM
Perhaps they should have left the "on-line reservation fee" at $10.00 and used the $4.00 that they are removing in 2019 to pay the cooperators an extra $4.00 for each permit that they issue. They could have done that and nobody would have really noticed. I'm willing to pay for the convenience of being able to pick up my permit at an outfitter because they have a lot better hours of operation in most cases than the US Forest Service offices. Not to mention I would likely get half way up the Gunflint Trail only to realize that I forgot to pick up my permit and then have to drive all the way back to town to pick it up, or worse yet wait until the next day when they open and then have to drive back to town to get it. If the fee is published ahead of time, I think that it is fair. Charging you after you have paid for everything else is more of an inconvenience than anything. I'm sure if they asked you if you wanted to pay $2.00 to watch the video most people would say that they already watched it within the past year.
 
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