Pretty minor stuff, but they are taking away the $10 online reservation fee. I just now got two emails from the Superior FS.

BW Permit changes

An outfitter posted this information a few days ago also. It was nice of them to inform the public ahead of time, particularly several months ahead of the BWCA permit date so your group can be prepared and get the leader their email addresses.

well, as long as the public gets the same info per what is required to reserve a permit then there should be no grousing about it come time to make the permit reservation.

however, it's ALL so much more work for everyone involved.

The letter says that all participant names must be entered for the permit to print at issuance. Participant names may be added to a reservation any time prior to the permit pick-up.

Is this a change? I've only made solo reservations.

Mocha: "well, as long as the public gets the same info per what is required to reserve a permit then there should be no grousing about it come time to make the permit reservation.


however, it's ALL so much more work for everyone involved."

Agreed, huge pain in the butt for all them to have .gov accounts and emails listed. Leader I get, not the rest

Unfortunate that they are making it a less flexible process. If no email address and not registered at recreation.gov, then a friend can’t be listed as an alternate.

How about letting us watch the video online and print the permit from home.
Too easy in todays tech world I guess.
Dont understand the point of these changes.
CB

I'm not really sure I understand the logic of requiring emails and information from more people in order to limit access to PII, increase security, and prevent fraud . . . ?

cyclones30: "

Mocha: "well, as long as the public gets the same info per what is required to reserve a permit then there should be no grousing about it come time to make the permit reservation.



however, it's ALL so much more work for everyone involved."

Agreed, huge pain in the butt for all them to have .gov accounts and emails listed. Leader I get, not the rest"

I thought it was just the Leader and Alternate Leaders that needed rec.gov accounts. Not all the participants. Am I wrong about that?

That's the same way I read it. It did state all participants would have to be on it before issued, but not that they needed emails/rec.gov accounts.

Right, I'm just saying if you're going to list 3 alternates that's now 4 different people that need to have separate usernames, passwords, and accept an email within 72 hours of each other.

Plus, that seems like more personal information than they had before....leader only vs now up to 4 per group?

I'm actually surprised that it took the Forest Service this long to require the listing of all visitors on the permit. It seems legitimate for the Forest Service to know exactly who has entered the wilderness area. Up until now the Forest Service only knew the size of the groups entering the wilderness and they didn't know specific names of visitors in the wilderness except for the leaders that picked up the permits. Maybe it was security or maybe it was safety but doesn't it really makes sense for the Forest Service to know exactly who has entered the wilderness?

As far as requiring an email and login for an alternate leader, that seems to be a bit of an over reach in my opinion.

DuluthPak: "...but doesn't it really makes sense for the Forest Service to know exactly who has entered the wilderness? "

No. What does recording the names of users have to do with managing and protecting national forests and grasslands? Has congress passed a law requiring those who enter wilderness areas to be known by name?

inspector13: "

DuluthPak: "...but doesn't it really makes sense for the Forest Service to know exactly who has entered the wilderness? "

No. What does recording the names of users have to do with managing and protecting national forests and grasslands? Has congress passed a law requiring those who enter wilderness areas to be known by name?
"

Because if you get lost in the woods, they know who they are looking for. I would guess that they are also looking at vandalism and violations that might be discovered afterwards. If they come across a trashed campsite and can track the group down, then having the names would help with issuing citations.

They already got one name. More names don’t make finding violators any easier. The BWCAW is a miniscule portion of the lands managed and protected by the US Forest service. Are the free sites within the Superior National Forest any less valuable? Do the vast amount of people using national lands outside the wilderness system need less scrutiny?

Information is like gold these days. It's very valuable. Hopefully it will be put to good use. For those of us that received the notice aren't you glad you did before permit time comes and you are going for a coveted entry on a busy date at a busy entry point and then you learned the new rules. They used your information to alert you ahead of time, it works. As long as it's safe & secure and they don't sell it I'm fine with it. It adds a couple of minutes on-line. You'll be a proponent of it when your standing in line at the Ranger Station or outfitter while someone ahead of you who is completely unprepared tries to do it in person.

I work as a Chain Account/Key Account Sales Manager and in the last 5 years, 5 of my Sales Manager colleagues have quit and they weren't replaced. We have hired 15 information and sales analysts during this same time frame. They don't sell anything, they just report to senior management and investors what us 7 remaining sales team members do, who are customers are, where they are located, what they purchase, how often they purchase it, and how much they spend.

inspector13: "
They already got one name. More names don’t make finding violators any easier. The BWCAW is a miniscule portion of the lands managed and protected by the US Forest service. Are the free sites within the Superior National Forest any less valuable? Do the vast amount of people using national lands outside the wilderness system need less scrutiny?


"

More names would be more people to question. Many people do confess when questioned by an officer. Just saying that there are probably several reasons to list the names of people who are going, search and rescue and violations are 2 decent examples.

Honestly I am more concerned about the email and account requirement. I don't like that all the alternate leaders need to verify their emails and make accounts. First, even though I know who is going, I don't always know their email address. 3 years ago my buddies little brother picked up the permit because my buddy had to work late and I had only put him as an alternate because I could and it was easy to. Lucky that I did because that would have made a big difference. No way that would have worked if I had needed to have everyone's email and talked them into signing up for an account just for the potential that one of them might need to get the permit.

In addition to the changes mentioned above, I am seeing that the new/updated web site requires us to reset our pass word.
I've tried repeatedly to do so but never get the "update password" email.
Others?

KarlBAndersen1: "In addition to the changes mentioned above, I am seeing that the new/updated web site requires us to reset our pass word.
I've tried repeatedly to do so but never get the "update password" email.
Others?"

It wasn't exactly timely, but it came within 10 min, I think. Check your spam filter, I guess.

I just reset my password. No real problems.
I agree with being able to see the registration board would be nice.
Maybe they have yet to add it. Give em time.

KarlBAndersen1: "In addition to the changes mentioned above, I am seeing that the new/updated web site requires us to reset our pass word.
I've tried repeatedly to do so but never get the "update password" email.
Others?"

After I read this, I tried to reset mine. I didn't get it right away, so went back and clicked again (actually twice accidentally). I then went back to email and found it in my "junk" folder. This morning I had two more there ;). I suspect you've got yours by now . . . ?

I suspect you've got yours by now . . . ?
"

Nope - I've never received it. I have a professional email system that has no spam folder.

This message has had HTML content edited out of it.
Well, Karl, I'm not enough of a "techy" to give you a definitive answer. The email I received from communications@rec.gov just said you could go to their Help Center, which basically tells you to do what you already did, or call the reservation line 877-444-6777. Maybe you can put their email address in your contacts . . . ? Otherwise, good luck.

Is it the same vendor?

WTIP’s Joe Friedrichs spoke with Kris Reichenbach, a spokesperson for the US Forest Service on Superior National Forest, about the changes to permits in the BWCA.

There is a link to listen to the whole interview at the bottom of the article

In addition to answering some questions regarding the permit changes, Kris mentioned the changes to the new and improved Leave No Trace Video which will be issued in segments and links to the various segments will me emailed to the permittee to watch before they arrive.

Link to WTIP Interview