BWCA USFS Rangers Boundary Waters Listening Point - General Discussion
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Bear87
  
10/20/2018 08:45AM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
I was wondering if anyone actually encounters USFS Rangers while on their trips. What has been your experience and/or assessment? What do they do and are they available if you need them?
 
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10/20/2018 09:25AM  
I very rarely encounter them, but mostly go in Sept. I have mostly encountered work crews and only been checked for permit once or twice. Experience has been good, assessment is there are few of them and they are overworked. Work crews usually are laden with tools to replace latrines, etc. Others are out to check permits and compliance I think. Not sure what you mean by "are they available if you need them"?
 
10/20/2018 09:27AM  
Two stopped at my camp on Thomas this June while they were surveying the conditions of campsites for repair crews. Had a pleasant conversation. Rangers are not generally available. If you pressed a SOS button on a personal locator beacon or similar device, a rescue team would respond.
 
10/20/2018 09:30AM  
Four trips, haven't seen one yet....

 
TipsyPaddler
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10/20/2018 10:26AM  
After about 10 trips I have encountered a pair of rangers once. We passed them going opposite directions on a portage trail between EP 47 and Gaskin. We exchanged greetings, one ranger asked me how many people were in our party as I passed him carrying the canoe, and both groups kept on truckin’. We weren’t asked to show our permit.
 
10/20/2018 12:08PM  
TipsyPaddler: "After about 10 trips I have encountered a pair of rangers once. We passed them going opposite directions on a portage trail between EP 47 and Gaskin. We exchanged greetings, one ranger asked me how many people were in our party as I passed him carrying the canoe, and both groups kept on truckin’. We weren’t asked to show our permit."


8 trips. I’ve never seen a ranger up there.
 
OtherBob
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10/20/2018 12:44PM  
I can remember just 3 permit checks in the 40 years or so I have been going into the BW. Once was on a portage, once in the middle of Insula Lake, (fog of time has erased the third location). All pleasant encounters. Helpful information exchanged both ways (except for telling the ranger on Insula of a steel framed quad chair stuffed down the latrine at our last campsite).

The Forest Service rangers work in the entire Superior National Forest, not just the BW, so they are spread really thin. Search "Pagami Creek Fire" for a video of the most dramatic kind of work they do.
 
10/20/2018 03:15PM  
I've encountered them a couple of times. Once had two paddle up to my camp while my partner and I were making breakfast. One checked our permit and chatted with us while the other walked around camp. This year in May I was paddling up Sucker and had rangers in motor boats pull up and check my permit and chat. Always good interactions but short, because like Boonie said they are few and overworked. Wish there were more. Of course, most of us also see rangers fly over in the Beavers on most days. DNR Conservation officers and US Customs and Border Patrol also wander through and over head.

I'm also not sure what you mean by if you need them. If you push an emergency button, it's the county sheriffs are usually responsible for coordinating rescue using whatever assets they need; their own SAR, USFS, COs, even State Troopers to paddle,hike or fly in.

Your profile says you have +40 trips. I'm curious why you are asking?
 
1lookout-guest
Guest Paddler
  
10/20/2018 05:24PM  
I used to be a ranger back in the 80s. Staffing levels whatever, your odds are low of seeing us. We could be one portage or campsite in front or behind you. In those days we did 8-day trips, so let's say on the Gunflint we had a crew going down the Clearwater loop, one doing like Long Island, and one going out of Seagull.

We didn't sit in the woods spying with binoculars. We cleared portages, dug latrines, cleaned up campsites. Law enforcement was if you did wrong, you got a ticket.
 
10/20/2018 06:09PM  
With 32 years of tripping and over 45 trips, I've been checked exactly two times.

Funny story. The last time that I encountered a USFS Ranger was on Lac LaCroix in 2012. My wife and I were camped near the entrance to Tiger Bay at a 5 star campsite with a beautiful beach. It was unseasonably hot and we decided to take a skinny dip that afternoon. There was a nice little trail leading to the beach which was 100 or so yards from the main campsite. We brought one small towel for the both of us down to the beach. As soon as we began frolicking in the water naked, we heard a guy announcing "Forest Service" as he paddled around the corner seemingly out of nowhere. My wife and I were completely naked and so my wife had no other choice but to but to dive to deeper water for cover while I scrambled to shore for the safety of the towel. By the time the ranger and his young female intern paddled up to us, my wife was safely up to her neck in the water. The ranger politely paddled around the corner to our campsite which allowed me time to wrap an extremely small towel around my waist. I then hiked back up to meet the ranger at the main campsite. The ranger was very polite. He checked our permit and asked about our trip. Some small talk (no pun intended) and then he and his female partner were on their way. My wife never got out of the water.
 
scramble4a5
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10/20/2018 07:23PM  
Saw some last year on our way out. There were three in a canoe and they had just left a campsite with a good sized blue tarp spread out on the ground. They asked us where we stayed the night before. I think they were looking to see if the blue tarp site was ours. We told them we had just left the next lake over. They didn't ask to see our permit.

They weren't rude but not overtly polite either. Just all business which was fine with me. They followed us for a bit until we hit the portage out of that lake. My impression was they weren't happy with the state of the campsite they had just left.
 
airmorse
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10/20/2018 07:51PM  
25 trips...checked three times.
 
andym
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10/20/2018 08:38PM  
We’ve never been checked by a ranger or seen one. But once, while off on a day trip, our fire grate was replaced. So they were around.

We were once checked by DNR for PFDs, canoe registration, and fishing licenses. We didn’t have the latter because we don’t fish and the other two were visible and so it was a quick conversation as we paddled by.
 
Savage Voyageur
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10/20/2018 09:40PM  
50 plus trips, about 3 times I’ve encountered rangers. Thier job entails checking permits, check the campsite, check the latrine, clear portage trails. One time I’ve had a game warden check our fishing license. They are not readily available as you asked. Most likely you will never see them.
 
Jasonf
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10/20/2018 09:58PM  
Had a couple younger rangers catch us this season while heading up the Moose river from E.P 16. We were told they would be out for 8 days like stated above and that they would be checking portage/camp conditions and permits. Couple funny things of note though; they never asked anything of us, just chatted and kept going. Second interesting thing was that both rangers didn't speak english or at least good english. The man who we talked with did and the female ranger spoke French. Kind of an odd scenario if you camping with someone for eight days. lol
 
10/20/2018 11:15PM  
My son and I encountered rangers on our second ever BW trip several years ago. We pulled up late to one of the busy falls areas and saw an empty site with a fire grate. Turns out the group before us had moved the fire grate there from a valid camp site. We saw the fire grate and figured it was a site. We had our tent pitched and were starting to cook dinner on the stove when I turned around and two rangers were standing there looking at us and not too happy. We just explained what we did and they were as nice as could be. While we were packing up camp to move one of the rangers took our tarp and left it on an empty site for us so we could move there before it was taken. They were camping near by and told us to come by later that night and they would give us a tour of an old boat house. They told us they were the only two rangers patrolling the BW at that time.
 
10/21/2018 06:35AM  
43 years, a couple of dozen trips or more. I can specifically remember three times, but I think there may have been more, so I will say "several". All of our encounters were cordial, and all included being asked to show our permit.

One time it was a couple who had a saw and had received a report of a downed tree over our biffy. Spartan1 had already taken care of the tree with his hand saw, but they went back and checked it out and did a bit of cleanup back there.

We also met up with a pair of firefighters once on (appropriately?) Fire Lake. They had a canoe full of gear and they were friendly, answered our questions, and posed for a photo. It was an interesting encounter.

 
bwcasolo
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10/21/2018 06:54AM  
40+ trips. maybe talked to 1, it was pleasant, are there really any out there?
 
10/21/2018 09:35AM  
I was checked on a portage on the Far East side this year for the first time ever. They checked our permit and wished us luck and it was a very positive interaction. Super nice, helpful, we actually ran into them again the next day relocating a latrine at a campsite just off the portage going into Pine Lake from West/East Pike. We chatted and shot some video of them explaining the work they were doing. The Rangers said they do 8 day trips, Wednesday-Wednesday and they had a map with marked campsites that needed service and also listed was the last time each campsite had work done to it. The tools they had were pretty sweet and they were super friendly and we were grateful for the work. They also pointed out the best sites on our route to make campsite shoppping easier.
 
Chlorin8ed
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10/21/2018 09:46AM  
three times. All were very friendly and nice. In fact, the second time, we were portaging our second portage of our first day, we met. They asked for our permit, and for the love of god, I could not find it!!! Searched in all my packs and the pocket I swore it was in. :-( He said it was fine, he can just call us in and check. So, while he was doing that, I had my pack torn apart. Finally found it, it was in the pocket that I thought I put it in but it slide all the way down to the bottom and when the pack was full I couldn't reach it. It is now in my map case ;-)
 
10/21/2018 02:50PM  
In 30years,twice in the BW and once in Canada. All where women and very pleasant people.
 
10/21/2018 05:54PM  
Same here: lotsa trips, a few encounters and checks. Always good people, with way too much ground to cover.
 
tumblehome
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10/22/2018 08:04AM  
My last interaction was on Insula where a lone ranger was camped out keeping an eye on a small, smoldering fire on the Wilder Lakes.

I was out fishing and he was too. He paddled up to me and we chatted. I gave him some leeches and we talked about the pretty sunset. That was about it.

Tom
 
ozarkpaddler
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10/22/2018 08:24AM  
I recall twice in 30 some trips. One pair paddling in on West Bearskin, and a pair that checked our permit on Horseshoe. Both interactions would have been in the '90s or early 2000's I guess? Both, short & cordial....the conversations were short, not the rangers themselves (LOL)!
 
10/22/2018 09:05AM  
In over 20 years of trips, I've only had Rangers roll up on my site once in the BW and once in Voyageurs. They just checked our permit, took a look around the site for glass contaners and other basic stuff. Both times we had a nice conversation and got some useful info on the area/fishing/etc. as well as got to ask them for some fun stories of crazy stuff they've seen in the line of duty.
 
10/22/2018 10:10AM  
Been checked twice. Once while at camp and once while out fishing.

When they came to camp they announced themselves and I believe asked permission to come into camp. They checked my permit and then checked the latrine. We chatted a bit and compared notes on portages, campsites, and about the traffic or lack there of. They thanked us for keeping a nice clean campsite and then they were off to the next site.

When I was checked while fishing i was on a day trip. They checked my day trip permit and exchanged pleasantries and that was about it. They were off and on their way in just a minute or two.

Id say both encounters were positive and everyone we very friendly and courteous in how they went about their business. In comparison I've been checked a handful of times by MN DNR officers and my interactions with them have been more hit and miss. None have been real bad but some DNR officers are very no nonsense and won't give you any pleasantries while others have been very nice and good to talk to.
 
LuvMyBell
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10/22/2018 10:37AM  
Been tripping the BW since 1999. One time while I was out fishing, my tripping partners said a single canoe with 2 maintenance people landed and swapped latrine sites.

Never been asked to show a permit or fishing license. I can't even remember seeing a ranger even pass by in a canoe.
 
huntfun2
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10/22/2018 10:51AM  
We ran into a pair of Rangers this past summer on our way out. These guys were fast paddlers and even faster at portaging. Their experience sure showed!! We were in a river that got to about 2 inches deep and as we were trying to paddle through and I looked behind me and there they were. We have no idea where they came from. They were extremely professional. They were very interested in our trip as well as the route we took, the condition of the campsites and the portage trails. Great individuals to represent the Forest Service. I said to myself afterwards, that if these guys were working in a business they would deserve a bonus for customer interaction and professionalism.

They were extremely courteous in showing us the saws they use to clear the trees from the portage trails. As they were busy sawing and clearing some big downed trees we kept on our way thinking we likely wouldn't see them anymore. Wham, there they were again right behind us. They wound up passing us up and exited the entry point before we did. They never did check our permit, likely because we were on the way out and they were finishing up their 8 days out in the field.

Afterwards I was left reflecting that I underappreciated what these people do maintaining the portage trails and campsites. I'm sure the pay isn't great either.
 
tumblehome
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10/22/2018 10:57AM  
I wish someone on here would post about being caught without a permit, or some other illegal activity. A boat motor, 10 people in a camp, something like that. I'm sure the polite ranger attitude would change which it should.

I assume we have all had good experiences with them since we are not the ones that causes their blood to boil.
Tom
 
HowardSprague
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10/22/2018 12:27PM  
I usually hide my food barrel somewhere in the woods. If they come around and don't find it, they're generally on their way to the next site right away.
 
ellahallely
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10/22/2018 12:32PM  
I could post a couple a few stories about the FS people being shall we say "not so kind". A few years back a group of veterans had been fishing Basswood and met for lunch. Well the combined number of people have shore lunch was 10, over the max of 9 people. It was a DNR guy and a FS guy. Word was the FS a was a real jerk. Yes they got a ticket. Form my understanding the DNR guys was friendly and apologetic for the other guys actions. My father had 2 FS guys come into his campsite and told him to take his American flag down. He asked why and they said "it did not fit in with the way the bwca should be". He told them to get the hell out of his campsite, they wrote him a ticket because they felt threatened. The flag remained. The ticket was later rescinded after the Ely Echo ran the story.

I will say those stories are the exception. I know of an incident were a few guys got caught snowmobling on Crooked Lake. They got their ticket and then they all sat down and had lunch together , Forest Service and snowmobiles. After lunch they all hopped on their sleds and rode out together. I remember seeing a picture of the group eating lunch on Crooked.


Out of around 100 trips I have been stopped about 8 times. Never a bad encounter.



Maybe not the forest service but Borden Patrol on Gunflint. One of my more memorable stops. JIM
 
10/22/2018 03:26PM  
I just saw a group of them for the third time in the past 8 or 9 years. About six of them were heading in over the Indian Portage to Knife at the end of the Labor Day weekend. It was a wet, chilly exit for my daughter and me and the same entry for them! They were already soaked after they tow. They were going in to check campsites.
 
10/22/2018 08:33PM  
Been checked 3 times while camping on Sag and 3 times while camping on Sandpoint in VNP, ran into the same Crane lake ranger 3 other times while fishing, so 6 or so interactions with the same Ranger. Almost had 7 but he must have recognized me or the boat (I always stay at the same site) because he got within 100 yards waved and did a u-turn. I actually like running into them, especially while fishing. They also check people for fishing violations and as such tend to know where fish are being caught. A polite and friendly conversation can often result in some hints on where to be.
 
Saberboys
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10/23/2018 11:53AM  
Once on Gun Lake, he paddled by in a rain storm, looked like he was on fire grate duty? He didn't stop at our site. Another time on Horseshoe checking permits and the same crew on Vista came into camp and checked out our site for violations. The previous campers had cut down a fair amount of green limbs and I was worried that we were going to be blamed for it.
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
10/23/2018 12:16PM  
Bear87: "I was wondering if anyone actually encounters USFS Rangers while on their trips. What has been your experience and/or assessment? What do they do and are they available if you need them? "

I must admit, when I see an open ended question of this nature (asking about experiences with rangers) by someone making their very first post on the board, I get curious as to who is asking the question and why they're asking. I get more curious since they asked the original question and have added nothing more to the thread. Is it an innocent question by a new board member or a question by someone in the Forest Service office doing research? I suppose it really doesn't matter - but it does make me wonder.
 
JimmyJustice
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10/23/2018 12:23PM  
40 or so trips to the BWCA since 1994. I have had 4 meetings with the Rangers and/or crews. Each one was pleasant and friendly. Not the most talkative bunch but non-the-less positive experiences for me. Helps if you have your permit and are not drunk :)
 
10/23/2018 12:25PM  
I have seen them twice on Basswood, but that is all. Our party got check for permits and licenses one of those times. The guys were very nice, chatted about the fishing, and were on the way.
 
10/23/2018 12:28PM  
Jackfish: "I must admit, when I see an open ended question of this nature (asking about experiences with rangers) by someone making their very first post on the board, I get curious as to who is asking the question and why they're asking. I get more curious since they asked the original question and have added nothing more to the thread. Is it an innocent question by a new board member or a question by someone in the Forest Service office doing research? I suppose it really doesn't matter - but it does make me wonder."

...or somebody with bad intentions?
 
Bear87
  
10/23/2018 10:17PM  
Thanks for the responses. I was just curious. I recently have found this site and find it to be full of outstanding information and perspective. Thanks again.
 
Jackfish
Moderator
  
10/23/2018 11:13PM  
Welcome to the board, Bear! Glad you came back. Don’t be a stranger... we’re a pretty friendly group.
 
andym
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10/24/2018 12:16AM  
It is a great site. Hope you stick around learn and share what you know.
 
10/24/2018 03:20AM  
In 58 trips since 1993 (yeah I'am good at remembering when/where) had them visit me 4 times. Ottertrack on my first trip ever in 1993. Ogish in 1999. Fourtown in 2004 and Insula in 2008. Always courteous and professional and in 2004 I had left my permit in the truck (Uncle locked keys in truck and raining out) and the Ranger called my name via radio and we checked out. Never any issues. NEVER checked for fishing license by DNR. Kind of sad.
 
BuckFlicks
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10/24/2018 01:56PM  
I've been backpacking or canoe tripping since 1993, and spent many many days in the RMNP before that as a yout'. I saw Park Rangers on the regular in the Rocky Mountain National Park, but that was understandable... they managed crowd control, information kiosks, etc.

Since 1993, I've only run across one pair of USFS Rangers, in the Navajo Basin, in the San Juan national forest in Colorado. They had hiked up from a trailhead to our quite remote campsite (day hike, and impressive because it was a long way back.. a long way to go with no tent or sleeping bag.) Had a nice chat with them, they were surprised we had parked where we did (there were two closer trailheads to our campsite) ... I explained we were more interested in the hike in than bagging peaks, so we chose a longer backpacking trail. They kept on hiking up and over a saddle, presumably down to a different trailhead where they hopefully had a ride waiting or had parked a 2nd car.

I'm glad we didn't run into any rangers one trip, we were backpacking the Grand Canyon and had just made it from the USFS portion of the north rim down to the river, which was managed by the NPS. We were too tired to hike back up, so we decided to camp at the site near the river, which required a reservation with the NPS (and we didn't do that.) It was an emergency campsite, not just a decision to give the finger to the rules and regulations. We actually ran into another hiker there, who was from MN and told us he hits the B-Dub regularly. Name of Kip. We had a pleasent evening talking about past trips and how awesome the Grand Canyon was in December. Kip, are you here? Remember the two yahoos from TX who interloped on the NPS camp area in the Grand Canyon in 2005?

I have run in to Outward Bound trail maintenance volunteers several times in Colorado, and one time an Outward bound excursion group of two ladies in their 20s leading a group of 6 teen boys as we were exiting Sawbill on our last trip a few years ago. They don't count as rangers, but that's the next closest experience I could think of.

 
10/24/2018 08:54PM  

Since 1977, I have taken at least one or more trips to the BWCAW and/or Quetico Provincial Park almost every year. During that time, I have traveled virtually every major BWCAW route, (some two or three times), and about 2/3 of the routes in Quetico; many of the Quetico routes more than once as well.

It wasn't until a 2015 solo trip out of Entry Point #14, (Little Indian Sioux River North), that I encountered my first permit check from the USFS Rangers. It was the second day of my solo trip and I was just about to launch from a campsite on Shell Lake when USFS Rangers Mark & Tim landed at my site. (pictured below)

Mark and Tim were very friendly and they politely asked to see my permit. After a check of my permit, they casually paddled away after we chatted for awhile about the weather and a few BWCAW related topics.

I've never encountered any Rangers in the back-country of Quetico. My wife and I did meet several members of a Quetico trail crew while visiting Dorothy Molter in July of 1984. Like my wife and I, the trail crew just stopped to visit with Dorothy, and of course, purchase some of Dorothy's root beer.

Hans Solo

 
mgraber
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10/25/2018 09:31PM  
Twice in 10 years. Both times they ran us down in their canoe(very fast paddlers) and checked our permits and chatted. They were very friendly. Was also checked twice in Quetico, pretty much the same experience there. Never had any law enforcement enter our camp.
 
Abbey
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10/27/2018 09:00AM  
Seven trips since 2011 and have not been permit checked. Saw our first ranger this year on our way out of Crooked. Paddling opposite directions, and she had a canoe full of trail maintenance gear and what appeared to be a teen/tween in the front of the canoe. There had been a significant wind storm a few days before our trip, and we thanked her for the trail maintenance and reported on what we had just portaged through (actually wasn’t that bad; most of the blow downs were along shores and islands). Viewed some of their handiwork on the remaining portages.

Not sure if it was her daughter in the front of the canoe or if FS has a junior ranger program. Either way, good to see the FS getting young people into the woods. We had a long travel day and a headwind, so didn’t chat much.
 
Northwoodsman
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10/27/2018 10:14AM  
Once back in 1989 on either Vern or Juno. It was more or less a last minute decision to go. A group of 4 guys with tents, sleeping bags, and packs rented from someplace in Duluth, possibly UMD. Our EP was Homer Lake, we didn't make it far because we severely over-packed and got a late start. When we arrived at our campsite it was pouring rain. We broke many rules - threw fish guts in the lake at the campsite, washed dishes in the lake (with soap), had tin cans, etc. The very first morning we woke up we were greeted by two rangers pulling up to our camp, two young women in their 20's. They checked our permit, told us what rules we had broken, and went on their way. No ticket or fine, but scared us straight. I'm grateful for that learning lesson. We cleaned up our act immediately and I have been a rule-follower ever since. They taught me a valuable lesson and broke my bad habits before they became habits. I still look back at that day, 4 macho guys in their 20's and 30's scared straight by two tiny young "girls" in uniform. Not sure if our decision to become law-abiding paddlers was out of respect for the ladies or the uniform, but it worked.
 
10/28/2018 03:05AM  
Sometimes just teaching is better than cracking the whip... liked your story northwoodsman.
My encounters are few and far between also. Always nice and helpful people.
 
10/28/2018 08:03AM  
In the last 23 years I'm seem them 2X. Once on Ensign, they checked my permit then proceeded to dig a new hole for the throne. Once on Indian portage there was an intern or assistant of some kind and he kept telling us there was too many people on the portage. We were all waiting for tows so there was nothing we could do. He kept telling us there were too many on the portage and we just kept telling him we couldn't leave until our tow picked us up. It was kind of funny.
 
10/28/2018 08:29AM  
2 times in over 20 trips plus even more daytrips.....

1st time I was set up on Kawishiwi Lake for an easy exit on the last night of an August solo trip in 2015. A single ranger paddling a tandem canoe came into camp to check my permit. We had a great conversation.... He had put in a new latrine at my site earlier in the day and put out a fire at a campsite where people left a fire going when they left camp. He said the fire was burning about 10 feet outside of the grate when he got there. When he was looking at my permit he started laughing and said "you didn't need to count your dog as a person on your permit".. When I picked up my permit they had forgotten to adjust the number of people to 1 and I didn't notice it.

The 2nd time was on a solo trip a few days after ice out before fishing opener in 2016. I had entered at Morgan and was set up on Caribou for my last night and an easy exit through Lizz the next day. After setting up camp I had gone for a tour of the lake and walked around in all of the campsites and when I returned to my campsite right across from the portage to Lizz I noticed packs on the ground near the portage landing. I was bummed because I hadn't seen a single person on my 4 day trip. Well............ an hour later I still hadn't seen any people so I started to wonder if something happened to them so I got in my canoe and paddled over to walk the portage and found 2 Rangers clearing the portage. Once again I had a great conversation with them. I gave them info on the conditions of all the portages I had been on. There were a lot of trees down that year because of a winter storm that had dumped a lot of wet heavy snow that was followed by a week of below zero temps. I had planned on a 30 minute single portage to start my trip at Morgan but it turned into 2 and a 1/2 hours of pushing through and climbing under and over trees. All of the portages had a lot of trees down so I was very grateful they had cleared my 2 exit day portages. They thanked me for the info on portages and they had a big smile when they saw on the map that most of the Morgan portage is outside of the BWCA so they could go do that one with chainsaws.



The full 320 rods of the Morgan portage looked like this
 
canoeski
member (33)member
  
10/28/2018 09:13AM  
Never mind.
 
mnboy68
member (5)member
  
10/02/2022 01:47PM  
I was up there at the end of September. It was my first trip ever to BWCA. Some buddies and I ran into two rangers. Pleasant gals, who checked our permits.
 
10/02/2022 02:15PM  
2 times in over 100 trips…
 
10/03/2022 06:32AM  
ducks: "2 times in over 20 trips plus even more daytrips.....


1st time I was set up on Kawishiwi Lake for an easy exit on the last night of an August solo trip in 2015. A single ranger paddling a tandem canoe came into camp to check my permit. We had a great conversation.... He had put in a new latrine at my site earlier in the day and put out a fire at a campsite where people left a fire going when they left camp. He said the fire was burning about 10 feet outside of the grate when he got there. When he was looking at my permit he started laughing and said "you didn't need to count your dog as a person on your permit".. When I picked up my permit they had forgotten to adjust the number of people to 1 and I didn't notice it.


"


I ran into this same ranger in July at the Kawishiwi Lake EP landing. He was shocked that I remembered him from 7 years ago. He remembered the events of that day after I said how I remembered him. Him and his partner had just finished an 8 trip. They were very happy it had been a quiet trip without problems.
 
sdebol
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10/03/2022 10:13AM  
Two times in about 20 trips for me. I don’t recall the details for one of them but for the other we were returning to our campsite on Horseshoe and thought people were rummaging through our site. Turned out to be two rangers checking it out. They were very polite. Checked our permit too.
 
eagle98mn
distinguished member (167)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/03/2022 10:34AM  
0-17 so far. I kind of feel like they are avoiding me. :)
 
10/03/2022 10:44AM  
One encounter in 2021 and they checked our permit.

Three encounters over three days with the same crew in 2022, didn't check our permit at all.
 
10/03/2022 10:48AM  
I have been checked each of the last 2 years, both times out of EP #37. That probably doubles the # of times I've been checked in about 20 trips. There does seem to be an increased presence.
 
Northwoodsman
distinguished member(2059)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/03/2022 04:31PM  
Boonie, they monitor when YOU pull a permit. They are hiding in the bushes with binoculars waiting for you. "There he is. That's Boonie. As soon as his paddle hits the water let's nab him! I saw him slip a tin can of tuna into his pack back at the campground when he was packing up."
 
LesliesDad
distinguished member (283)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/03/2022 07:14PM  
Well . . . I see at least one Ranger every trip.

Usually when picking up my permit.
 
10/03/2022 09:37PM  
Their staff is just a fraction of what it was 5 years ago. Like less than 40% of what it once was.
 
KawnipiKid
distinguished member (191)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/03/2022 11:04PM  
Only once on the water, a permit check among the islands of Big Sag, a full 40 years ago. More in the air in recent "fire" years in the red and white planes.
 
10/04/2022 07:41AM  
Pinetree: "Their staff is just a fraction of what it was 5 years ago. Like less than 40% of what it once was."


What is the basis for that statement?
 
Maiingan
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/04/2022 08:38AM  
Kendis: "
Pinetree: "Their staff is just a fraction of what it was 5 years ago. Like less than 40% of what it once was."



What is the basis for that statement?"

Yes, maybe a link.

I see they get 7 billion a year give or take for the last decade.
I wonder how much goes to enforcement, administrative costs, etc...

A
 
mnboy68
member (5)member
  
10/04/2022 09:11AM  
boonie: "I have been checked each of the last 2 years, both times out of EP #37. That probably doubles the # of times I've been checked in about 20 trips. There does seem to be an increased presence. "


I wonder if the Covid era, when all inexperienced knuckleheads were coming out of the woodwork, chopping down live trees and leaving debris at the campsite, drove this apparent surge in ranger sitings?
 
10/04/2022 09:34AM  
Over 60 trips in the past 20 years, and I have probably encountered Rangers 5 times in camp. All very pleasant and professional. Asked to see our permits and chatted a bit. One crew asked if they could move the pit toilet on the site-and that was fine by me as the one was filled.

Always appreciate seeing and chatting with them.
 
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(1339)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/04/2022 10:45AM  
In over 50 trips, I remember only encountering rangers once: in the mid-80s during a trip on the Granite River with my father. Two female rangers approaching the portage while my father was off the portage trail answering the call of nature. Awkwardness barely averted.

Mike
 
dustytrail
distinguished member (194)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/04/2022 03:06PM  
As far as BWCA I have around 40-45 trips. I can think of 8 times I have been checked by rangers. 9 if you count the time they landed a plan in front of our site, unloaded a canoe and came over to tell us they would be using that bay to fly in fire fighters and fill water tanks. So I guess I am above average in something anyway.
 
10/09/2022 07:16AM  
My wife and I have seen rangers a few times. On one trip we were check the first morning at breakfast time so we invited the rangers to have coffee with us. The next morning we were on another lake and the same two rangers checked our campsite at breakfast time again so we invited them to have coffee again. The next morning....yes they checked us again as we had moved camp so we invited them for coffee.

One other time we were checked in the late afternoon. We asked if they had been fishing and they said no so I offered to catch a walleye for them for their evening meal. They were quite surprised when I showed up at their campsite with a walleye and cleaned it for them. Apparently that was mentioned back at the office.
 
eagle98mn
distinguished member (167)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/10/2022 02:57PM  
RMinMN: " They were quite surprised when I showed up at their campsite with a walleye and cleaned it for them. Apparently that was mentioned back at the office."


Where and when are you camping next year? I’ll place my walleye delivery order in advance!

Classy move, well done. :)
 
10/10/2022 07:31PM  
MikeinMpls: "In over 50 trips, I remember only encountering rangers once: in the mid-80s during a trip on the Granite River with my father. Two female rangers approaching the portage while my father was off the portage trail answering the call of nature. Awkwardness barely averted.


Mike"


Me too. I was standing at the edge of our campsite one morning after just climbing out of the tent in my skivves relieving myself when I looked up and up the trail from the lake came a female ranger. I turned away from her while she kept coming and I finished my business. My brother tossed my shorts, I pulled them on and we had a nice chat about our trip, her job, etc. She checked our permit, wished us a good trip and was on her way. No big deal for her or me.
 
Maiingan
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/10/2022 08:03PM  
No big deal... now that is funny.
 
tmccann
member (35)member
  
10/11/2022 09:14PM  
You are more likely to get checked by a MN DNR Conservation Officer than by USFS Wilderness Rangers. The CO is also looking you over for USFS regulation compliance. Actually, the USFS law enforcement efforts would be more effective if they were checking permits and inspecting for compliance right at the entry points. This would prevent many problems from getting into the Wilderness in the first place.
 
1lookout
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10/12/2022 04:32PM  
As a former ranger, violations don't happen at the landings. I also was
a watercraft inspector at entry some points. I think in 12 years I never saw a
group without a permit. Most violations are undesignated campsites
and fires outside of the grate, which always leads to fires elsewhere
on the campsite. Happens more often than you think.
Then group size is a problem.
If you put all your resources at a landing who brushes the portages and
clear the trees? Who digs the latrines and levels the firegrates?
 
OHPaddler
member (22)member
  
10/13/2022 03:49PM  
Had my permit checked by a trail crew member at monument portage this summer. They were not rangers - but had been asked to check permits as they encountered people.
 
10/14/2022 02:30PM  
eagle98mn: "
RMinMN: " They were quite surprised when I showed up at their campsite with a walleye and cleaned it for them. Apparently that was mentioned back at the office."



Where and when are you camping next year? I’ll place my walleye delivery order in advance!


Classy move, well done. :)"


It looks like it will be either Hudson or Insula but I don't know the dates yet. This year we camped on Hudson and could have easily filled your walleye request...every day. One day we caught a small bass as soon as we started fishing and for the next hour and a half were landing a fish every 3 minutes on average. Not all were walleye but a high percentage were.

My wife caught the biggest fish of the trip on the first morning, a northern pike over 15 pounds. My best was a 10 pound northern that had chomped my wife's lure off and it still had it in its mouth. Best walleye was about 6 pounds, average of walleyes was about 2 pounds.
 
KawnipiKid
distinguished member (191)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/16/2022 03:32PM  
1lookout: "As a former ranger, violations don't happen at the landings. I also was
a watercraft inspector at entry some points. I think in 12 years I never saw a
group without a permit. Most violations are undesignated campsites
and fires outside of the grate, which always leads to fires elsewhere
on the campsite. Happens more often than you think.
Then group size is a problem.
If you put all your resources at a landing who brushes the portages and
clear the trees? Who digs the latrines and levels the firegrates?
"


I have seen violations at entry points in recent years (beer in cans, 12+ people in 6 boats setting off to together as one mega group). It may not be where the majority of violations occur, but it’s a spot every group goes through on day 1. The bigger issue is total resources. The latrines need replacement faster than ever in the past couple years and the brushing, tree and fire grate work doesn't slow down. Besides general patrol and visitor checks out in the lakes and camps, I still wish a ranger team could spend 7-10 am at a busy entry now and then too.

Besides better resource levels, what would reduce demand on ranger resources? This is off on another topic/thread, but does field experience suggest anything should be added in the permit process? How do we get permit issuers to take the LNT issues more seriously? In my experience, there’s very little attention on LNT in the permit process. At various outfitters in the past five years, we’ve hardly been asked a thing. At the USFS pick-up this year, we were asked to go watch the video but that was it. No questions of us and the only comment was about bear activity.
 
10/19/2022 09:08PM  
KawnipiKid: "
1lookout: "As a former ranger, violations don't happen at the landings. I also was
a watercraft inspector at entry some points. I think in 12 years I never saw a
group without a permit. Most violations are undesignated campsites
and fires outside of the grate, which always leads to fires elsewhere
on the campsite. Happens more often than you think.
Then group size is a problem.
If you put all your resources at a landing who brushes the portages and
clear the trees? Who digs the latrines and levels the firegrates?
"



I have seen violations at entry points in recent years (beer in cans, 12+ people in 6 boats setting off to together as one mega group). It may not be where the majority of violations occur, but it’s a spot every group goes through on day 1. The bigger issue is total resources. The latrines need replacement faster than ever in the past couple years and the brushing, tree and fire grate work doesn't slow down. Besides general patrol and visitor checks out in the lakes and camps, I still wish a ranger team could spend 7-10 am at a busy entry now and then too.


Besides better resource levels, what would reduce demand on ranger resources? This is off on another topic/thread, but does field experience suggest anything should be added in the permit process? How do we get permit issuers to take the LNT issues more seriously? In my experience, there’s very little attention on LNT in the permit process. At various outfitters in the past five years, we’ve hardly been asked a thing. At the USFS pick-up this year, we were asked to go watch the video but that was it. No questions of us and the only comment was about bear activity.
"


Sounds like we're sliding backward in protecting and enhancing OUR resources. I do know by a certain segment of society think they can do as they please. The heck with everthing else and others.
 
Maiingan
distinguished member (197)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/20/2022 07:24AM  
Pinetree you are spot on. It starts at the top... look at the whole defund the police. How is that working out? Yes we do have a whole segment that feels they are above the law and has double standards. I could name many, however I will not turn the thread that way. It's not money. The government has never taken in this much money from taxpayers in our history.
 
MikeinMpls
distinguished member(1339)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
10/20/2022 10:37AM  
Maiingan: "Pinetree you are spot on. It starts at the top... look at the whole defund the police. How is that working out? Yes we do have a whole segment that feels they are above the law and has double standards. I could name many, however I will not turn the thread that way. It's not money. The government has never taken in this much money from taxpayers in our history."


I see it just a wee bit differently, albeit a subtle difference.

I don't think there are as many people who believe they are above the law. Rather, there is a large segment of the population who wants what they want when they want it, and the law is merely an impediment toward getting what they want. To make it BWCA/Q specific: Group decides in May that they want to do a trip in June. Wants an easy, convenient entry, maybe to base camp. Permits are filled for the entire week or weeks they want to enter. So, they just enter anyway.

Or two groups of six enter, but hang out together.

Or we can't trip without beer, so a 12-pack of cans is brought in.

Or the fire grate has a crappy view…let's build the fire on the rocks next to shore.

I could go on and on.

Mike
 
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