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DrBobDerrig
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11/12/2018 12:01PM
Utility may be on the hook for this one

Also past fires....

2018 Fires etc...

Any other states have that many issues with their utility equipment?

dr bob
 
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DrBobDerrig
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11/12/2018 12:08PM
More

I know is Wisconsin trees are regularly cut back by companies hired by the utility companies. If drought and wind were more of an issue I think they would be even more aggressive in tree pruning and removal...

dr bob
11/12/2018 12:56PM
I drove from LAX to the Reagan Library a few weeks back.
I had never been to the LA area before.
I commented to my wife on just how dry the whole area looked, especially the dry hillsides.
Now Thousand Oaks, and other communities are aflame.
We can only hope the folks there are able to recover.
andym
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11/12/2018 02:05PM
There has been a lot of discussion over many years that PG&E has not fully utilized their budget for tree trimming and been lax of other safety inspections (they were heavily fined for that after a gas explosion and fire that destroyed a neighborhood with multiple fatalities). They’ve started doing preemptive outages for high wind situations but didn’t get one done before this fire.

It’s also true that more and more people are living in the forests. Add in drought conditions and it is a tinderbox. Throw in a spark and high winds and it’s a disaster.

When the Camp Fire broke out, they were giving a smoke warning a hundred miles away for that afternoon. By then we had smoke at unhealthy levels 200 miles away. That’s a lot of wind.

The aftermath from this is going to look unimaginable but lots of people around here are trying hard to imagine it where we live. We have some vulnerable forests of non-native eucalyptus trees. Yes, trees famous for their oil burn fast. And our roads get clogged up on most weekends with beach traffic (we live in a coastal town). Try an evacuation and have an accident or a tree across the road and it could be bad.
11/12/2018 07:37PM
The people of California are in my thoughts. Can't imagine what they are going through. Or what they will be going through when heavy rains, coming next I'm sure, cause mud slides on these burnt hills.
andym
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11/12/2018 08:50PM
Absolutely true about the mudslides but no one is going to be complaining about some rain. We're overdue and need it to get the fire season under control. It usually starts around mid-October but we haven't had anything significant yet.

One of my friends lives near there and has been posting lots of offers of help from various stores, restaurants, and organizations. It's great to see people coming together. Our local feed and fuel will be running a truckload of supplies up this week and next. We were just in there and they said half of their phone calls today were about donating to that effort.
arctic
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11/13/2018 08:28AM
When you have 40 MILLION people living on a parched landscape, unchecked sprawl into highly flammable forest landscapes, longer fire seasons, and tens of thousands of miles of power lines, railroads, and other sources of ignition---is anyone surprised this would happen?
11/13/2018 02:28PM
MHS67... Larry, are you ok?...
Pinetree
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11/13/2018 08:14PM
nctry: "MHS67... Larry, are you ok?..."

I was wondering the same and also about other California friends. This is turning out to be one of the worst natural disasters in our Countries history.
nooneuno
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11/13/2018 09:30PM
arctic: "When you have 40 MILLION people living on a parched landscape, unchecked sprawl into highly flammable forest landscapes, longer fire seasons, and tens of thousands of miles of power lines, railroads, and other sources of ignition---is anyone surprised this would happen? "

I saw recently a homeowner completely distraught about losing her home along with the beautiful lot with dozens of trees that were growing right up to the house and naturally you feel bad about their plight yet at the same time the fire crews have been imploring folks for decades to cut back the trees and grasses to form a fire break, to consider steel roofing yet many still choose vanity over safety. I don't claim to be an expert but do listen to those who are...
arctic
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11/13/2018 09:53PM
I feel terrible about what is happening in California, but so many folks are so disconnected with nature that they are caught clueless when fires or floods wreck their property.

Nearly every western forest originates from fire and is periodically renewed by it. Same in the North Woods. I worry about fire. I put a metal roof on my house and have cut down and burned at least a hundred budworm-killed balsam trees over the past few years to reduce the fuel load.

We had a small (25-acre) wildfire burn to within 400 yards of my house three or four years ago, started by a passing train in very dry spring conditions. The DNR used a helicopter and bulldozers to extinguish it. A good wake-up call.
WhiteWolf
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11/13/2018 11:40PM
PG&E news story

Buddy of mine lives in Chico. He said Monday that fire investigators declared the area surrounding power lines on the woman's property, in an oak-filled canyon, a crime scene.
BobDobbs
distinguished member (314)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/14/2018 08:48AM
Until I actually saw the Santa Cruz area last year with my own eyes, I had NO real appreciation of the sheer population and housing density in many parts of CA. It is absolutely unreal. Unless you're extremely wealthy by CA standards (aka filthy rich) looking out YOUR window means you are looking INTO your neighbor's window. Unless there is a tree.

So - people are loath to cut back trees, as it's the only semblance of privacy they have. While utilities have the right to cut trees on private property (due to easements), the truth of the matter is that a laborer's days worth of work cutting trees and brush is almost always preceded by a MONTH's worth of work for various PR and legal folks, as there is usually huge pushback from the community due to the aesthetics. California with no trees is basically desert.

Believe me when I tell you that many of the same people now calling for heads to roll at PG&E, are the same one's causing the absurd amount of time and money to be spent on what trimming is happening.
inspector13
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11/14/2018 09:14AM
arctic: "I worry about fire. I put a metal roof on my house and have cut down and burned at least a hundred budworm-killed balsam trees over the past few years to reduce the fuel load."
According the U of M, a spruce budworm outbreak lasts from 8 to 10 years. If that is correct we’re only half way through. Crap. First the birch, now the balsam. I’m glad I’ve planted Northern Red Oak and Black Cherry the past few years.

MHS67
distinguished member(1403)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/14/2018 11:03AM
nctry: "MHS67... Larry, are you ok?..."

We are fine. Our area did not get the Mono winds that were predicted for our area. Foehn winds as the Mono and Santa Anna winds are, tend not to cover a overly large area. This round they hit farther north. It depends on where the high and low pressures are situated.
Hopefully our weather patterns start to change to a more winter pattern. I see the end of next week there is a chance of rain, I don't hold much hope for that though. Its a long way off.
Its really unfortunate the loss of life in this fire.
Thanks for the thoughts. Larry

I wonder if Jeriatric is home. He lives closer to the fire area. He may be out of the country at this time.
Jeriatric
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11/14/2018 11:21AM
I left MHS67 after 30-some years in Coarsegold and now live about 80 miles from Paradise, about 150 miles closer. I've never been to Paradise but spent time in Chico.

Living straight across the valley from the bay area, we tend to get more rain than other areas in the Sierra. We still worry.



Jeriatric
distinguished member(4835)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/14/2018 12:10PM
Jeriatric: "I left MHS67 after 30-some years in Coarsegold and now live about 80 miles from Paradise, about 150 miles closer. I've never been to Paradise but spent time in Chico.

Living straight across the valley from the bay area, we tend to get more rain than other areas in the Sierra. We still worry.

"


Oops! There you are.
11/14/2018 12:53PM
Oh good... would like to hear you guys take. Is there steps that could be taken to help prevent such a disaster? I know nothing is perfect. I saw an article interviewing Neil Young that blames climate change. We know there is climate change... but it seems people should be adapting and taking and making precautionary steps. It’s a matter of time when you have those conditions. So sad the loss of life and the numbers keep growing.
MHS67
distinguished member(1403)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/14/2018 05:02PM
nctry: "Oh good... would like to hear you guys take. Is there steps that could be taken to help prevent such a disaster? I know nothing is perfect. I saw an article interviewing Neil Young that blames climate change. We know there is climate change... but it seems people should be adapting and taking and making precautionary steps. It’s a matter of time when you have those conditions. So sad the loss of life and the numbers keep growing."

Ben, I can give you what I have run across in my 45+ years of living in this wildland area. While working for Cal Fire we had to do fire prevention inspections every year. This is try to convince people to have defensible space around there house. Some people, usually folks that have just moved into the area from down in the valley, would listen and work on that defensible space. However, a majority of the people fought doing this. There reasoning was this is the reason we moved into this area. To live in mountains, with tall trees and brush so we can't see our neighbors. I remember one lady I talked to refused to thin manzanita trees that grew right up to her house. The reason was, where would I hang my bird feeders. I explained to her, she lived one mile, up hill ,from the local high school. I asked if a fire started behind the school and ran up hill, at your house, what would you do?
She looked at me and said, well how bad could it be! I tried, tactfully, to explain to her I didn't think she could survive a fire like that. I don't want to say this is the mentality you are dealing with but just people that don't have a clue what they are getting into moving into the wildland.
As far as what we could do to help alleviate some of these intense wildfires that occur is a good question. I have said this here in past threads, the three main factors that influence fire behavior are, fuels, weather and topography. Wind being the big one. When we are getting Mono winds or Santa Anna winds that are blowing 50 to 60 miles an hour, we just can't stop that type of fire. All we can do is try to get people evacuated and out of the area.
Structure protection is very difficult under those conditions. As a crew leader you are literally trying to keep your crews safe while protecting someones home.
Well have to get ready, wed. night is our bonding dinner at the local Cal Fire Station. Our local unit has sent three strike teams of engines. two strike teams of hand crews and a strike team of dozers to the Camp Fire.
andym
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11/14/2018 05:52PM
Well, one of the things we can do is fight climate change to try and avoid this just becoming worse and worse.

Aside from that a big problem is density of houses. If you want 100’ of clear space around a house and a 50’x50’ house (2500 square feet is pretty average) then a 1.5 acre lot leaves room for a few trees in the corners. Anything smaller and you have no trees whatsoever. And the standard lot in much of a California is 5000’ feet or about 12 lots per 1.5 acres. So completely clearing defensible space means denuding whole towns. That’s a hard sell. Or you could leave big trees but try to reduce other fuels.

One guideline I saw recently was for that defensible space if your land backed up to open space. That could be done by creating firebreaks at the edges of open space.

But I sort of wonder if some of these firestorms might just jump that 100’. The winds these fires are driven by and are creating are pretty amazing and are spreading burning embers pretty far.

The town next to us is pretty much covered in non-native eucalyptus trees. Yes, a tree famous for its oil burns really fast. They are starting to discuss how to deal,with the threat. And some of that is being driven by threats from their insurance companies. So that might be how change gets forced.

This isn’t a surprise. Mortgages mean that banks are involved in building safety and mortgages require insurance. That provides two major industries that want safety and could provide the pressure needed for change.

And I doubt this is just a California problem. Minnesota has had its share of big fires and an expanding population. California is just ahead of the curve. On the good side, we got a notice that Lake County would be doing inspections for fire fuel buildup around the area where our cabin is located.

In the meantime, we’re just seeing more and more need to help people,through this disaster.
LindenTree3
distinguished member(2580)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/14/2018 07:08PM
MHS67:

While working for Cal Fire we had to do fire prevention inspections every year. This is try to convince people to have defensible space around there house. Some people, usually folks that have just moved into the area from down in the valley, would listen and work on that defensible space. However, a majority of the people fought doing this. There reasoning was this is the reason we moved into this area. To live in mountains, with tall trees and brush so we can't see our neighbors. I remember one lady I talked to refused to thin manzanita trees that grew right up to her house. The reason was, where would I hang my bird feeders. I explained to her, she lived one mile, up hill ,from the local high school. I asked if a fire started behind the school and ran up hill, at your house, what would you do?
She looked at me and said, well how bad could it be! I tried, tactfully, to explain to her I didn't think she could survive a fire like that. I don't want to say this is the mentality you are dealing with but just people that don't have a clue what they are getting into moving into the wildland.
"


MHS67 and Andym,

I finished my career as a Fire Prevention Officer in Ak, an area with a history of many, large fires on the Kenai Peninsula.
I put on Firewise workshops there, we had more presenters than the public attend.
One presentation we had 4 or 5 from the public, another time we had 10 to 15, the second one was put on, with a 1,000 acre fire still smouldering 3 miles from their commmunitys homes. (the fire was pretty much done and was in the mop up stage.

My point, Rant, (when smoke is not in the air, no one has a care).
My workshops were pretty much a waste of time. What I learned is that education starts with the children. (Its why Smokey Bears message is taken so well with that age group).

We need to expand Smokey Bears message of fire prevention, to Firewise principles to the young ones. They have their parents ear, and may get them to listen.

Some busy weekends I would make 75 contacts a day in campgrounds, I would target camps with children present, passing out Smokey Bear gifts to them. Giving my speel about fire prevention to the kids, but I was really talking to the grown ups who were the ones responsible for leaving their campfires unattended.

Ps, insurance companies are beginning to have a large voice in home construction and placement in the Wildland Urban Interface.
State Farm had a booth at one of my workshops.

WUI, the area where human settlement mixes with the wildland vegetation.

Here is a pic from one of my workshops, again only 4 or 5 people showed, 2 years after a 200,000 acre fire had them evacuated, and one year after a 10,000 acre fire took out 7 or more of that communities homes. Sadly most people in this pic are presenters.

Oops, guess I deleted the pic. Here is a pic of me at a much smaller workshop.
Note my presentation panel. "How fast can your house run" ?
DrBobDerrig
distinguished member(696)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/14/2018 09:38PM
seems like the technology should be there that utilities can be able to deal with the winds.. Also fuses that don't emit a bunch of sparks when there is a short etc...
andym
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11/14/2018 09:55PM
Agreed that education is key. I’ve done a lot of earthquake safety exhibits. The question is what does it take to get people to actually take action. Often, you have to provide info but nothing happens until it grows in a neighborhood with people talking to each other. It’s a tough process.

Better power equipment would definitely help. Not sure whether it exists or not, thoug. PG&E would certainly have a reason to have it.
11/14/2018 10:32PM
Just got home from the fire hall. Haha. We were just talking tonight how people just don’t listen to the firewise message here. We’ve tried a number of things. Sometimes we will in the summer on training nights show up at a cabin or even a house where we know access would be a bugger. Sometimes people need to see first hand what we’re dealing with. It still doesn’t help much, but at l least we can kind of take notes and sort of plan how we’d come and watch there places burn down... I’m kidding... but how we might attack a fire here.
MHS67
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11/14/2018 10:57PM
DrBobDerrig: "seems like the technology should be there that utilities can be able to deal with the winds.. Also fuses that don't emit a bunch of sparks when there is a short etc..."
One thing PG&E is talking about is when a wind event is predicted they will shut down the power to that area.
In my opinion one of PG&Es problems is poles that are old, deteriorated and full of woodpecker holes. It doesn't take much of a branch in the wind to knock a pole and line down.
andym
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11/14/2018 11:34PM
There have been a few preemptive blackouts in the SF Bay Area this year.
Pinetree
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11/14/2018 11:37PM
Jeriatric
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11/15/2018 01:31AM
We had (intentional) power out before this fire and had to dump some stuff on the third day. We are now considering a generator.

Lots of smoke this evening.

Looks like rainy weather next Wednesday.
andym
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11/15/2018 04:11AM
I don’t think any of the intentional outages here lasted that long.

Even down here on the coast, Wednesday was noticeably smokier.

Sounds like the rain could be a decent storm. Our dock guru just sent out a warning that we might need to move our sailing club dock into winter configuration and pull most of the boats before Thanksgiving. Downside is we could have some wind with that storm but I think it would be a south wind which would be colder.

Let’s hope the forecast is right.
arctic
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11/15/2018 08:14AM
inspector13: "arctic: "I worry about fire. I put a metal roof on my house and have cut down and burned at least a hundred budworm-killed balsam trees over the past few years to reduce the fuel load."
According the U of M, a spruce budworm outbreak lasts from 8 to 10 years. If that is correct we’re only half way through. Crap. First the birch, now the balsam. I’m glad I’ve planted Northern Red Oak and Black Cherry the past few years.
"


I've planted and fenced numerous white pines in places where I have removed the balsams (but where there is still come forest canopy) and planted a mix of red pine, white pine, and red oak in more open areas. The new trees are growing FAST!
11/15/2018 08:28AM
That sounds funny andym. For us a south wind is typically much warmer. You might have to put in your long underwear. :).
I just hope in all this people don’t just go on business as usual and leave these people to rebuild on their own and just as important not work on better fire prevention for similar communities. This needs much attention. For the we’re causing most of climate change crowd, this fire I’m guessing produced more toxins and such in the air than many many coal plants. So the best thing people can do is work on fire breaks and reducing fuels out there. Check out their area firewise programs. Even in other parts of the country people should be learning from this.

.
BobDobbs
distinguished member (314)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/15/2018 09:09AM
nctry:
I just hope in all this people don’t just go on business as usual and leave these people to rebuild on their own
."


They won't rebuild on their own - taxpayers will be on the hook for it, and politicians will continue to salivate over those 55 electoral votes.

SSDD
inspector13
distinguished member(4140)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/15/2018 10:26AM
arctic: "I've planted and fenced numerous white pines in places where I have removed the balsams (but where there is still come forest canopy) and planted a mix of red pine, white pine, and red oak in more open areas. The new trees are growing FAST!"
I’m glad those budworms are leaving my White Spruce alone, so far. Otherwise, if not for them and the White Cedar, my woods might resemble the hardwood forests around Moose Lake in the near future. I planted White Pine three different times in the past 15 years. Two plantings are doing much better than the last one. I’m tired of fighting the deer, so no more White Pine.

MHS67
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11/15/2018 10:50AM
nctry: "That sounds funny andym. For us a south wind is typically much warmer. You might have to put in your long underwear. :).
I just hope in all this people don’t just go on business as usual and leave these people to rebuild on their own and just as important not work on better fire prevention for similar communities. This needs much attention. For the we’re causing most of climate change crowd, this fire I’m guessing produced more toxins and such in the air than many many coal plants. So the best thing people can do is work on fire breaks and reducing fuels out there. Check out their area firewise programs. Even in other parts of the country people should be learning from this.


."

A while back I started a thread about how to solve this fire problem. Most people want the land to go back to the way it was, when fire was not suppressed. In my opinion, in this day and age, that expectation is not realistic. Most of the land that people are moving into is privately owned. The problem you will run into is one land owner will be all for thinning the overgrown forest and the next owner won't. We ran into this all the time when trying to set up control burns to thin fuels. We usually wound up canceling the project.
I can see some of there concerns. People want guarantees the fire will not escape. All we can honestly tell them is, we can't guarantee that.
Money is also the problem. It is very costly to have someone come in a manually thin your property. A letter to the editor in our small local paper from a land owner who owned a one acre piece of property. She was retired living on social security. She had several ponderosa pines that the bugs killed. For a contractor to come in and clear the dead trees would of cost her $25,000. PG&E finally came and took them down because they were near their power line.
Even if we were able to convince folks to thin their property to the 100 foot required by the Public Resources code, with 60 mph winds and 200 foot flame lengths, still no guarantees.
Geez, nothing is ever easy!
andym
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11/15/2018 04:05PM
nctry: "That sounds funny andym. For us a south wind is typically much warmer. You might have to put in your long underwear. :).
."


I thought that might sound funny. Probably our coldest winds are from the northwest and the south winds are sort of middling. While coming from the south they are still coming over the cool ocean. It's the east winds that bring in air from the central valley or, for the Paradise area, from Nevada, that are most associated with big fires because they are strong and dry, along with being hot. I can't feel one of those winds without getting worried.

But really, a sweatshirt is all I need.
11/16/2018 08:41AM
andym:

But really, a sweatshirt is all I need."




Man your tough! Haha.
CounterPoint
Guest Paddler
 
11/20/2018 01:51PM
andym: "Well, one of the things we can do is fight climate change to try and avoid this just becoming worse and worse.



California is just ahead of the curve. "


ahead of the curve, LOL

fight climate change?
Ain’t gonna happen.
You have to cut your energy use 1% every year just to offset the population increase. Now take into account the undeveloped world is fast developing and you have to cut your energy use even more to make up for the third world person who is adding all of the developed worlds conveniences.

And if they ever end wars, famine, and pandemics you’ll have to cut your energy use even more.

Saving the world for our children? In 4 billion years the world as we know it will end, all life on earth will be vaporized by our sun.
CounterPoint
Guest Paddler
 
11/20/2018 02:11PM
I almost forgot, as much as half of the climate change is due to natural causes for which we have no control. Google Milankovitch Cycles. In addition although we know the sun varies its output roughly every 11 years, we don't really know what longer cycles there may be. And Gawd only knows what other naturally occurring cycles there may be.
Pinetree
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11/20/2018 08:24PM
according to NASA the majority of global warming is due to man made effects. Just look into the CO2 increases-than field and lab tests.
Yes California is in like a 500 year drought and I am Praying for them all.

arctic
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11/20/2018 10:21PM
Pinetree: " according to NASA the majority of global warming is due to man made effects. Just look into the CO2 increases-than field and lab tests.
Yes California is in like a 500 year drought and I am Praying for them all.
"


Yup. When you change atmospheric CO2 from 270ppm at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution to 410ppm today is anyone surprised?

7 billion people on its way to 10-12 billion in the next few decades won't make fixing any of this very easy. The teaming masses will migrate when shit hits the fan, just like anyone would. Americans will be migrating, too...
11/20/2018 11:59PM
Climate change is a contributer but it didn’t happen overnight. 500 yr drought? Plenty of time to be ready for it! We used to take action and take care of situations. Now we sit back and blame with no action on our part. Fire personal sounds like made efforts. But people like their trees too much. They’d rather see them burn along with their homes... so they can blame climate change instead of themselves for not taking action.
Zwater
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11/21/2018 12:38AM
Oh boy, my major in college was Environmental Studies. I'm not going to comment. Interesting theories though.
wetcanoedog
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11/21/2018 02:58AM
the damage by the fire is just the tip of the iceberg.i get the impression that many thousands of people and familys are now homeless.the housing is said to be hard to find just for someone just moving into work at a decent job.
Pinetree
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11/21/2018 03:18AM
wetcanoedog: "the damage by the fire is just the tip of the iceberg.i get the impression that many thousands of people and familys are now homeless.the housing is said to be hard to find just for someone just moving into work at a decent job."


Its tough times for them in many ways,many still don't know where family members are and many probably never will. Times like these we should try to do what we can to help.
TheTinMan
Guest Paddler
 
11/21/2018 12:49PM
Pinetree: " according to NASA the majority of global warming is due to man made effects.


"


click your heals together and it just might be true

we just completed an election cycle, majority can be as little as 50.01%, and sometimes even less

there is a book you can check out from the Mpls library written over a half century ago by a professor that tried to show that the output of the sun varied

many in the scientific community rejected his argument, but the interesting thing is that when they measured the output of the sun using satellites it showed he did a pretty good job of measurement

today they try to use the same statistical argument he used (to show the output of the sun varies) to show that the variance in solar energy is not enough to account for most of the increase in global warming

in short, they rejected his argument when they didn't agree with him, but now use his argument to try to show that what he found is insignificant

but again, how much is most?

as I mentioned previously, if every person on earth today decreases their energy consumption by 1%, we will get nowhere in the battle because the population increase will offset it

if man is responsible for only 50% of global warming, then you will have to reduce your energy consumption 2% every year just to offset population increases

now add in the increase due to developing countries wanting all of the developed world's gadgets

I know this involves a lot of math, I've tried to keep it simple, but anybody should be able to see we do not have a global warming crisis, it is only a symptom, we have a population crisis, the world can only support so many people

this should have been demonstrated to you in 7th grade biology with a swath of bacteria in a jar
andym
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11/21/2018 04:08PM
Yes, it is going to be tough times for people in that area and California already has a housing crisis. So finding a new home is quite difficult. On the good side, it is raining and windy today and our air quality is in the safe range for the first time in 2 weeks and the start of the rainy season will help reduce fire risk. On the bad side, the rain is going to create mud, slippery roads, and mudslides and make it harder to search for victims and live in tents.

It will b a long haul. Around the bad fires we had north of SF last year, 27% of the destroyed homes are now in some stage of rebuilding. That means almost 3/4 haven’t gotten started yet.

People are pulling together but there is a lot to do.
Bushman
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11/22/2018 07:54AM
I lived near Paradise for awhile. A touch further north off 32 going up the hill out of Chico. A little tiny ville named Forest Ranch. We went through Paradise a lot on our searches for the best swimming holes and trout streams. It is truly spectacular country out there. Unfortunately there is a lot of pine and pine duff on the forest floors. It can get extremely dry there without rain for weeks and weeks. The red dust covers everything. It is a shame and my thoughts and prayers go out to them.

We cleared dead and down wood away from our home for about a 100 yards but if a fire would have swept through our area we most likely would have been wiped out as well. Outside of our little area (10 acres) was extremely thick with pine, manzanita and oak. Some of the hottest burning stuff on the planet.

There is certainly a trade off for living in mountainous communities however to me it is worth it. I still miss those days of living up there. So peaceful.
Jeriatric
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12/01/2018 03:56PM
Being relatively near the Paradise fire, my wife found a family for us to support during the Christmas season. We will be buying pots and pans for someone who will be moving into a RV. The RV will be parked on a father's ranch which did not burn.

"Resilience Butte County Proud IPA" should also be released near mid-Dec by participating brewers. On draught in much of the country, it will be sold in cans, additionally, by Sierra Nevada. One hundred percent of returns should go to survivors of the Camp Fire.
andym
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12/02/2018 12:15AM
That’s great, Jeriatric. So many ways to help folks out after this fire. We have folks who have relocated to the coast and are getting similar help.

I had a Sierra Nevada pale ale today and will look forward to supporting yet one more way. I’ll see if our yacht club bar can get it on tap and maybe bump the price up to raise some extra funds.
 
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