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MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/24/2018 03:11PM
Purchased my first solo canoe this fall, a Northstar Phoenix. I hate double portaging and use a Granite Gear Superior One for single portaging with my Northwind 18 and love it. Love how the pack sits in the canoe, handles are great for lifting, and axe and saw fit perfectly on the side. Against all advise I used this pack with the Phoenix on a 5 day trip in the Boundary Waters this fall. The width of the pack made it so it had to stand up, and made the Phoenix perilously tippy, especially in the wind on Insula. Is anyone using a single pack that fits in a solo canoe that can hold a weeks worth of food and gear? Would hate to have to use two packs and double portage, especially on the 300 plus rod portages.
 
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WHendrix
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/24/2018 03:37PM
The Kondos outfitter Special is narrower than most other packs of equal size. I use it in my Magic and have had no problems.

Bill
11/24/2018 03:52PM
I use a CCS Pioneer Pack behind my seat in my Bell Magic. It is a snug fit but lays down flat. I believe a Magic is slightly narrower than a Phoenix ... do a CCS Pioneer may just be the ticket for you.
MReid
distinguished member (101)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/24/2018 04:43PM
CCS Pioneer fits in my skinny Voyager aft of the seat.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/24/2018 05:04PM
Thank you for the suggestions so far. What's strange is the Magic is only 23 inches at the gunwale and the Phoenix is 26 inches. My Phoenix measures 16.5 inches in front of the thwart. They both have tumblehome so I can't see how the 18 inch Pioneer pack fits, other than where you sit or kneel.
The Outfitter special is exactly what I was looking for, other than not having pockets on the side for axe and saw.
If someone with a magic can clarify the width in the front or rear thwart I would appreciate that, maybe the manufacturer specs are off.
SinglePortage
distinguished member (149)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/24/2018 08:25PM
On my last solo I put my gear and a weeks worth of food in my Zpacks ArcHaul. At 34 pounds, including the 1.5 pound pack, I was traveling lean and mean and I loved it. I bring comfort items like a 2.5" pad, a pillow and a chair, but my gear is very light and I do not bring anything I don't need. By the way, the Arc Haul will fit in any canoe.
11/24/2018 09:13PM
You can also lay them down sideways front to back... but I never had issues with packs laying down since going with the pioneer and the one smaller packs. But I do double portage... but I’m not out there for speed.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/24/2018 09:59PM
Single portage, what is your solo canoe?
MReid
distinguished member (101)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/25/2018 08:48AM
MidwestFirecraft: "Thank you for the suggestions so far. What's strange is the Magic is only 23 inches at the gunwale and the Phoenix is 26 inches. My Phoenix measures 16.5 inches in front of the thwart. They both have tumblehome so I can't see how the 18 inch Pioneer pack fits, other than where you sit or kneel.
The Outfitter special is exactly what I was looking for, other than not having pockets on the side for axe and saw.
If someone with a magic can clarify the width in the front or rear thwart I would appreciate that, maybe the manufacturer specs are off. "


Are you trying to put the pack in front of the forward thwart? Most people put the larger pack aft of the seat. My Voyager has a 21.5" gunwale width at the seat, which is much narrower than your Phoenix. I can still put my Pioneer aft of the seat by twisting it as I put it in from the rear. With the tumblehome, the width of storage is greater than the gunwale width.
mastertangler
distinguished member(6025)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
 
11/25/2018 09:45AM
I have a Bell Merlin and a Sealline pro pack fits perfectly in front of me. Complete with sturdy grab handles to yank it out.

Behind I have a couple of Watershed Duffels. Perfecto. I double however.......I mean I triple......and occasionally quadruple ;-(
Banksiana
distinguished member(1679)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/25/2018 10:37AM
The Kondos Outfitter Special is a superb pack and able to fit in the narrow cargo area of the Advantage. Comfortable on the carry as well.
WHendrix
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/25/2018 11:05AM
Gunwale width on my Magic is 21.25" aft and 20" forward
11/25/2018 11:30AM
MidwestFirecraft: "Thank you for the suggestions so far. What's strange is the Magic is only 23 inches at the gunwale and the Phoenix is 26 inches. My Phoenix measures 16.5 inches in front of the thwart. They both have tumblehome so I can't see how the 18 inch Pioneer pack fits, other than where you sit or kneel.
The Outfitter special is exactly what I was looking for, other than not having pockets on the side for axe and saw.
If someone with a magic can clarify the width in the front or rear thwart I would appreciate that, maybe the manufacturer specs are off. "


Sorry, I don't have a Magic or Pioneer pack..... But I have rented a Northwind Solo on 3 trips and I used a CCS Guide pack for my 1 pack on those trips and it fit (barely) in the Northwind Solo. So, based on the dimensions of the Pheonix and Northwind Solo I would think that the Pioneer would fit in the Phoenix.

Guide pack in a Northwind Solo positioned right behind the seat.
WHendrix
distinguished member (385)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/25/2018 11:38AM
I failed to note that those widths are at the thwart locations.
Z4K
member (14)member
 
11/25/2018 01:28PM
I have a lot of respect for the voyageur style packs and the classic look and feel of canvas and leather. I, however, prefer my Kelty backpacking pack most of the time. If it's comfortable enough for 15 miles of backpacking in a day, it'll be comfortable for 2 miles of portaging in a day. The pack itself is a bit heavier than a modern canoe pack but I am OK with that for the added comfort. They are almost always narrower so they fit in any canoe, and a good one is expandable for both height and width so you have a variety of shapes to choose form. Sometimes I pack it so tall that I need to weasel the top of the pack under a thwart to clear the next thwart or seat with the bottom, but when I'm single portaging I keep the pack shorter and fatter so there are no problems with carrying the canoe at the same time. Most of my solo trips have been in backwards tandems which are wider than dedicated solo canoes.

I measured my Kelty Redcloud 5600 at the widest stiff part and it is 14" wide.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/25/2018 02:59PM
MReid: "MidwestFirecraft: "Thank you for the suggestions so far. What's strange is the Magic is only 23 inches at the gunwale and the Phoenix is 26 inches. My Phoenix measures 16.5 inches in front of the thwart. They both have tumblehome so I can't see how the 18 inch Pioneer pack fits, other than where you sit or kneel.
The Outfitter special is exactly what I was looking for, other than not having pockets on the side for axe and saw.
If someone with a magic can clarify the width in the front or rear thwart I would appreciate that, maybe the manufacturer specs are off. "



Are you trying to put the pack in front of the forward thwart? Most people put the larger pack aft of the seat. My Voyager has a 21.5" gunwale width at the seat, which is much narrower than your Phoenix. I can still put my Pioneer aft of the seat by twisting it as I put it in from the rear. With the tumblehome, the width of storage is greater than the gunwale width."


I honestly did not realize it was wider behind the rear thwart. At 24 inches behind the rear thwart I have 19 inches. I really like the weight forward if it is not balanced, but I guess that is the way it has to be if you want a single pack. Thank you for mentioning this.
JATFOMike
distinguished member (257)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/25/2018 07:13PM
I can't help with your pack question as I use a Duluth #4.....Like you, I bought a Phoenix about 1 1/2 years go as my first solo. I love it! I Never had it out for more than a weekend trip until this past September when I took it up to the B-dub for it's first trip up North. My buddy and I don't pack light.....We eat lots of fresh food the first couple days, fishing gear, cameras, etc.....It's double portage all the way.....With that said, It was nice having two packs in it to trim it out. With those high sides made for busting thru wave trains on rivers, 2" of rocker, and no weight up front (assuming pack was behind me), I would have real problems with strong cross winds on bigger water. You mentioned it was tippy.....Are you kneeling or sitting? My boat came with the lower seat drops for sitting. I eventually put in the "factory" kneeling drops which sit just below the gunwale. It's a whole new boat! So much more control and stability from your knees.

Mike
11/25/2018 08:04PM
WHendrix: "The Kondos outfitter Special is narrower than most other packs of equal size. I use it in my Magic and have had no problems.


Bill"

Yup that's the one I use in my Northwind Solo. Excellent quality
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/26/2018 08:58AM
Kondos is running a 20 percent off (5 percent for signing up with e-mail notifications) through today. Think I will spring for the Outfitter special. Thank you for all your help!
11/26/2018 09:18AM
Just an FYI. CCS Hybrid packs are 20% off today through Friday. It's advertised on their facebook page but not the website.

"We are having a 20% off sale Now through Nov. 30, 2018, 6PM, on all in stock Hybrid and barrel packs and our in stock Rucksack and Bushcrafter packs and in stock zippered stuff sacks and barrel bags. Discount to be applied by CCS - It will not appear as you order. The amount will be adjusted at time of shipment. Be sure to put a 2nd color option down. Shipping is not discounted." Dan Cooke
DoubleSolo
Guest Paddler
 
11/26/2018 03:33PM
nctry: "You can also lay them down sideways front to back... but I never had issues with packs laying down since going with the pioneer and the one smaller packs. But I do double portage... but I’m not out there for speed."

yep, rather than lay my Duluth pack back side down, I put mine on it's side which fits my solo perfectly

and I use two packs which makes getting the correct front to rear balance easier, which might even make the boat faster compared to someone who only uses one pack since they end up fighting the wind or their tippy boat

many believe that single portaging is faster, not necessarily, especially on short portages

but to each his own
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/26/2018 05:26PM
DoubleSolo: "nctry: "You can also lay them down sideways front to back... but I never had issues with packs laying down since going with the pioneer and the one smaller packs. But I do double portage... but I’m not out there for speed."


yep, rather than lay my Duluth pack back side down, I put mine on it's side which fits my solo perfectly


and I use two packs which makes getting the correct front to rear balance easier, which might even make the boat faster compared to someone who only uses one pack since they end up fighting the wind or their tippy boat


many believe that single portaging is faster, not necessarily, especially on short portages


but to each his own "

If you put your Duluth pack on it's side doesn't stick up past the gunwales? This is what was causing problems for me in the wind. I'm not out for speed, but I hate doing things twice. I'm the guy that carries all the groceries in the house at one time.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/26/2018 06:52PM
JATFOMike: "I can't help with your pack question as I use a Duluth #4.....Like you, I bought a Phoenix about 1 1/2 years go as my first solo. I love it! I Never had it out for more than a weekend trip until this past September when I took it up to the B-dub for it's first trip up North. My buddy and I don't pack light.....We eat lots of fresh food the first couple days, fishing gear, cameras, etc.....It's double portage all the way.....With that said, It was nice having two packs in it to trim it out. With those high sides made for busting thru wave trains on rivers, 2" of rocker, and no weight up front (assuming pack was behind me), I would have real problems with strong cross winds on bigger water. You mentioned it was tippy.....Are you kneeling or sitting? My boat came with the lower seat drops for sitting. I eventually put in the "factory" kneeling drops which sit just below the gunwale. It's a whole new boat! So much more control and stability from your knees.


Mike"

I have the higher seat drops but with my lacrosse boots I could not get my feet under the seat. Stability was only and issue with the full 120 liter pack sticking out over the gunwales. Certainly not a fast boat, but it rides dry, turns quickly and is a joy to be in.
DoubleSolo
Guest Paddler
 
11/27/2018 10:41AM
MidwestFirecraft: "
If you put your Duluth pack on it's side doesn't stick up past the gunwales? This is what was causing problems for me in the wind. I'm not out for speed, but I hate doing things twice. I'm the guy that carries all the groceries in the house at one time. "


If you were to stand the packs on their bottom sideways, yes, it would be over the gunwale. But if you put it on it's side, with top towards front and bottom towards rear, no. I have two Duluth Packs, bought them around 1987 or so, so I can't remember which ones they are but one is slightly bigger, this one goes in front as far forward as possible and even if stuffed sits even with gunwale, or maybe an inch above. The other goes in back right behind seat. Since I am sitting slightly aft of center, boat is generally level trim. I use the rear pack to level, although occasionally move the front pack.

Double portage when solo allows taking the boat and the lightest pack, usually last, because on the first trip I can then munch on some food as I portage the bigger pack, check maps as I walk, answer natures call, scout the portage for best how to position boat and packs once I get there (especially important if someone else is using portage).

In short, I'm not in a rush either, but I find I end up passing people who are, especially if they try to lug in one load and then have to take a pee break, take more time to check the map or GPS, take more time to grab a bite, yet more time to get the kinks out of their back , and then are tired from the double portage.

I'm all about efficiency. traveling greater distance while expending less energy in a shorter time.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
11/27/2018 09:14PM
DoubleSolo: "MidwestFirecraft: "
If you put your Duluth pack on it's side doesn't stick up past the gunwales? This is what was causing problems for me in the wind. I'm not out for speed, but I hate doing things twice. I'm the guy that carries all the groceries in the house at one time. "



If you were to stand the packs on their bottom sideways, yes, it would be over the gunwale. But if you put it on it's side, with top towards front and bottom towards rear, no. "


I guess it would depend on your pack, but what I'm getting at is the Granite gear superior one is 25 inches tall by 20 inches wide. Even if I put it on its side it would be over the gunwale, plus it would be offset to one side or the other. In a tandem probably not a big deal, but in my Phoenix it tilts the whole canoe.

Thank you everyone for your responses. Just got a notice that my Kondos Outfitter Special has shipped. I think this will be great for me. It will limit my weight by the size of the back, and will allow me to lay it low in the canoe retaining stability.
Banksiana
distinguished member(1679)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
11/28/2018 12:59AM
You will be pleased with the Kondos pack. It is a well designed and crafted bit of gear, mine has served me well on many trips since a bought it three years ago. I did take it back to them and had them add another grab handle below the hip belt on the back (standard on CCS packs) to help with extracting it from my canoe. Huge fan of Kondos and CCS- both offer top quality at fair prices.
12/06/2018 04:28AM


Hemlock Kestrel
Width - at gunwales : 25.5"
Width - maximum : 27.5"
Width - at 4" WL : 25.5"

In my larger solo I can fit a Granite Gear Superior One pack behind my seat. I also use a CCS Pioneer pack behind the seat. In the photo above I had both packs for a 10 day solo just after ice out.





Hornbeck (Lost Pond) Classic 10
Width - maximum : 29"

In my smaller solo I currently use a CCS Explorer behind the the seat and a CCS Rucksack in the bow for any trips for 10+ days. In the photo above I used the CCS Rucksack behind the seat and a day pack in the bow. It was a 4 day summer trip so less gear and food.

bwcasolo
distinguished member(1670)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/06/2018 06:32AM
my granite gear quetico packs fit perfectly in my prism. one behind me, and a smaller kondos up front.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/06/2018 08:46AM
luft: "


Hemlock Kestrel
Width - at gunwales : 25.5"
Width - maximum : 27.5"
Width - at 4" WL : 25.5"


In my larger solo I can fit a Granite Gear Superior One pack behind my seat. I also use a CCS Pioneer pack behind the seat. In the photo above I had both packs for a 10 day solo just after ice out.






Hornbeck (Lost Pond) Classic 10
Width - maximum : 29"


In my smaller solo I currently use a CCS Explorer behind the the seat and a CCS Rucksack in the bow for any trips for 10+ days. In the photo above I used the CCS Rucksack behind the seat and a day pack in the bow. It was a 4 day summer trip so less gear and food.


"

Thanks for the pics and measurements. That's a pretty wide solo! I just received my Kondos outfitter special in the mail. Build quality of the bag itself looks excellent, plastic buckles look a little suspect but we will see. Planning on packing it this weekend and seeing how she fits in the Phoenix!
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/06/2018 08:50AM
bwcasolo: "my granite gear quetico packs fit perfectly in my prism. one behind me, and a smaller kondos up front."

The Phoenix is my first true solo. I had been using my Wenonah prospector sitting in the bow facing backwards. I could Fit any gear, and J-stroke it in a perfectly straight line. Now that I actually have a dedicated solo I can't paddle straight for anything, and have to completely rework my kit. Go figure!
moray
member (31)member
 
12/06/2018 09:44AM
Reading this thread it seems most of you put your larger/heavier pack in the back and smaller pack in front. Is this the norm? I used a solo for the first time on a trip this year. When I asked the person from outfitter giving me a tow how I should Load, he told me the opposite. Was he wrong or is it canoe specific? I’m not sure if there is a right or wrong way or just personal preference. The Canoe was a prism.
12/06/2018 10:11AM
MidwestFirecraft: "luft: "



Hemlock Kestrel
Width - at gunwales : 25.5"
Width - maximum : 27.5"
Width - at 4" WL : 25.5"



In my larger solo I can fit a Granite Gear Superior One pack behind my seat. I also use a CCS Pioneer pack behind the seat. In the photo above I had both packs for a 10 day solo just after ice out.








Hornbeck (Lost Pond) Classic 10
Width - maximum : 29"



In my smaller solo I currently use a CCS Explorer behind the the seat and a CCS Rucksack in the bow for any trips for 10+ days. In the photo above I used the CCS Rucksack behind the seat and a day pack in the bow. It was a 4 day summer trip so less gear and food.



"

Thanks for the pics and measurements. That's a pretty wide solo! I just received my Kondos outfitter special in the mail. Build quality of the bag itself looks excellent, plastic buckles look a little suspect but we will see. Planning on packing it this weekend and seeing how she fits in the Phoenix!"



I have about 6-7 Kondos packs that have a lot of hard miles on them and have never broke one buckle or had one fail.
12/06/2018 10:26AM
"Thanks for the pics and measurements. That's a pretty wide solo!"


FYI: Not really - smaller than the Phoenix: Width: 26 gw / 30 mx / 26 wl
Banksiana
distinguished member(1679)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
 
12/06/2018 04:42PM
moray: "Reading this thread it seems most of you put your larger/heavier pack in the back and smaller pack in front. Is this the norm? I used a solo for the first time on a trip this year. When I asked the person from outfitter giving me a tow how I should Load, he told me the opposite. Was he wrong or is it canoe specific? I’m not sure if there is a right or wrong way or just personal preference. The Canoe was a prism. "

He was wrong.

It is canoe specific. In most cases the Prism paddles best with a weight bias to the stern. If wind or wave conditions demand a shift of weight it can be accomplished through seat adjustments. I find a bow heavy Prism quite difficult to manage.
moray
member (31)member
 
12/06/2018 06:55PM
Banksiana: "moray: "Reading this thread it seems most of you put your larger/heavier pack in the back and smaller pack in front. Is this the norm? I used a solo for the first time on a trip this year. When I asked the person from outfitter giving me a tow how I should Load, he told me the opposite. Was he wrong or is it canoe specific? I’m not sure if there is a right or wrong way or just personal preference. The Canoe was a prism. "


He was wrong.


It is canoe specific. In most cases the Prism paddles best with a weight bias to the stern. If wind or wave conditions demand a shift of weight it can be accomplished through seat adjustments. I find a bow heavy Prism quite difficult to manage."



I did struggle on my first lake. About half way across I adjusted the seat back and it helped a lot. Now I’m thinking it could have been even better with heavier pack in back.You live and you learn! Thanks for your response.
12/06/2018 08:49PM

MReid: "CCS Pioneer fits in my skinny Voyager aft of the seat."

Yep!

The CCS Guide pack will also fit in a Wenonah Voyager if loaded on its side.

Hans Solo



12/06/2018 08:58PM

Wally13: "I use a CCS Pioneer Pack behind my seat in my Bell Magic. It is a snug fit but lays down flat. I believe a Magic is slightly narrower than a Phoenix ... do a CCS Pioneer may just be the ticket for you. "

CCS Pioneer pack in my Northstar Magic.

Hans Solo

MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/07/2018 06:52PM
boonie: ""Thanks for the pics and measurements. That's a pretty wide solo!"



FYI: Not really - smaller than the Phoenix: Width: 26 gw / 30 mx / 26 wl"

Those are the dimensions of the widest part of the canoe, but anywhere fore or aft of the seat is very narrow. 19 inches behind rear thwart, and 16.5 inches in front of the forward thwart. There is no way a Superior One would ever fit in a Phoenix.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/07/2018 06:59PM
moray: "Reading this thread it seems most of you put your larger/heavier pack in the back and smaller pack in front. Is this the norm? I used a solo for the first time on a trip this year. When I asked the person from outfitter giving me a tow how I should Load, he told me the opposite. Was he wrong or is it canoe specific? I’m not sure if there is a right or wrong way or just personal preference. The Canoe was a prism. "
I really like the weight forward in my canoes when I am solo. Obviously you want it trimmed as possible, but I hate it when the bow is sticking out of the water. I would rather the weight be in the back of the canoe if it isn't balanced.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/07/2018 07:02PM
HansSolo: "
Wally13: "I use a CCS Pioneer Pack behind my seat in my Bell Magic. It is a snug fit but lays down flat. I believe a Magic is slightly narrower than a Phoenix ... do a CCS Pioneer may just be the ticket for you. "


CCS Pioneer pack in my Northstar Magic.

Hans Solo

"

like a glove!
12/07/2018 08:52PM
In Cliff's Northstar Phoenix canoe, under the spray deck stern is a fully loaded CCS Pioneer pack. Under the blue stern canoe cover in the other visible Northstar Phoenix canoe is a Guide pack. They fit in the stern section behind the paddler. On that trip I had a Bell Wildfire and I had a Pioneer pack behind me and a CCS Rucksack and pelican case in front of me,

I do not have a good picture of the loading of the packs. This is getting ready to launch at the put in.
MidwestFirecraft
member (19)member
 
12/07/2018 10:33PM
DanCooke: "In Cliff's Northstar Phoenix canoe, under the spray deck stern is a fully loaded CCS Pioneer pack. Under the blue stern canoe cover in the other visible Northstar Phoenix canoe is a Guide pack. They fit in the stern section behind the paddler. On that trip I had a Bell Wildfire and I had a Pioneer pack behind me and a CCS Rucksack and pelican case in front of me,
Dan,
Thanks for the photos and list of packs!


I do not have a good picture of the loading of the packs. This is getting ready to launch at the put in.
"

Dan,
Thanks for the photos and list of packs!
yellowhorse
senior member (51)senior membersenior member
 
12/08/2018 07:05AM
DanCooke: "In Cliff's Northstar Phoenix canoe, under the spray deck stern is a fully loaded CCS Pioneer pack. Under the blue stern canoe cover in the other visible Northstar Phoenix canoe is a Guide pack. They fit in the stern section behind the paddler. On that trip I had a Bell Wildfire and I had a Pioneer pack behind me and a CCS Rucksack and pelican case in front of me,


I do not have a good picture of the loading of the packs. This is getting ready to launch at the put in.
"


Where was the paddle? Nice pics.
12/08/2018 10:53AM
The pictures are from a multi day trip down the Yellowstone river. From 10 miles upstream of Livingston to Billings. enjoy a few pictures
 
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