Browsing / searching the message boards, I see that specific brands and styles of packs has been well hashed over... BUT, what about opinions on "how MUCH pack" is appropriate. I realize this will vary greatly depending on how heavy or light one is going in, but are their any basic guidelines / opinons?

If a person is going to be packing / carrying their own personal things on a 5-day BWCA trip (tent, sleeping pad, clothes, sleeping bag, etc.), how many cubic inches should a person be thinking about for their main pack? (I'm planning on bringing a second, waterproof, smaller pack for food and "stuff" (headlamp, cooking kit, small amount of fishing tackle, etc.) IF NECESSARY.)

I guess I've been looking a bit at, for example, a Kondos #4 or what appears to be a good deal on a used Kondos outfitter special deluxe (which claims to be 7000 cu. in.!?!)

If its not obvious, yeah, I'm a BWCA newbie and a group of 5 of us are heading in on May 30 from EP47...

Thanks in advance for any insights / opinions!!!

walleymkr
When you start comparing pack sizes from diff makers, be aware that there is no standard for measuring pack volume. Some fill them some loose material such as corn etc and measure how much they hold. Others such as CCS use the actual measurements of the pack (length x width x height) for the volume. I beleive this is the only way to compare. Maybe Dan Cooke will chime in here with a better explaination of this.
Remember also the size of the user s vs l vs xl for clothes and the season of use. My CCS Guide is perfect for 2 people in the fall/spring(more and heavier clothes). My CCS Pioneer is better in the summer(less clothes).
We start with 3 packs , personal,gear and food. You will hear many diff variations and forms and types of packs. Some have more or less fishing gear, camera gear etc.
I guess the real answer is "it depends"
CB

Everyone has different preferences. I like the box type packs such as the CCS #2s or the CCS hybrid packs. Many like the envelope style packs like the traditional Duluth packs. I like the smaller packs in the 3500 to 4500 cu. inch size. If you take all the creature comforts you may need a larger pack, but if you have a large pack you will fill it up! Another thing to think about is what size of stuff sacks you will have when your gear is stuffed. If your tent and poles go in a 7X21 stuff sack and your pack is 18" wide by 20" tall, your stuffed tent will have to be stowed under the flap so it can hang over. How long are you tent poles? Your hatchet? Your saw? Will the pack be tall enough stand these items up along the sides or wide enough to lay them down? Will you have to strap items on the outside of the pack? (major pain when getting stuff in and out of the canoe) Can you use compression stuff sacks to get your stuff to fit? Packs are very simple items but getting the right one make it easier to keep your stuff organized and easy to stow and portage. So you have to think about what will work best for your intended use and tripping style. Do a search on this web site. Lots of good info on here.

One more opinion to process: I opted for a Granite Gear Quetico which has a volume of 5000 cubic inches, according to GG's website. I thought about going with the Superior One which rates at 7400 c.i., but decided to go with the smaller pack to force me not to over-pack. I take a five day trip and can fit all of my personal gear (clothes, pillow, toiletries, tackle box, sleeping bag...) in that pack. Our group then has a separate gear pack with the tents, ropes, saw, tarps and stuff like that and then the food packs. I usually travel with a group of 8, so we have two food packs and usually two gear packs so none of them get too heavy. I try to keep packs below 50 lbs, and I can keep my personal pack to around 32-35 lbs.

Just a few other tidbits. I usually go in May and pack a lot of warm clothes and I can still fit that in my pack. If I went in July, maybe even this pack would be too big. Perhaps, however, you might want to opt for the larger pack knowing you have the room if you need it.

when it came time to get a new pack i took the three major items that i wanted to fit in--two stuff sacks,one with clothes,one with the sleeping bag-poncho liner,and my tent and headed off to my favorite pack store to try out a few models that i thought might work to see if they really did..i have a Rutstrum Cruiser, which i see has been renamed the Cruiser Combo,with no basket anyway i could see the three main bits fit it with lots of slack for a sleeping pad,shoe bag,possibles bag and books and the big side pouches would take a rain suit on one side and "quick change"clothes on the other.
so--i would not pick out a bag sight unseen..catalogs and the web are good for getting some ideas.the pack along with the tent and stove is a major--must be right--camping item for canoe trippers.

I solo mostly and carry a Granite Gear Solo pack (4000 cu) and a Cooke Custom sewing Rucksack (couple thousand cu), total weight is under 40 lbs to start a week long trip. My philosophy is that I don't like to carry a lot of weight. I could take a lot less but it is easy for things to get out of hand.
Start with what is actually necessary and add what you like. My prediction is that you will carry less next time.

It really depends on your gear and how small you can get it. One of the big culprits is your sleeping bag. A $25 bag may work well comfort and temperature-wise in warmer months, but it may take up half of your pack space. Same with tents and sleeping pads. Some can be quite bulky.

I have pretty compact stuff and use a Camptrails Canoe Pack. They don't make them anymore but I guess it to be similar to a Cooke or Kondos as far as shape and size. My guess is that mine is about 3500 - 4000 cu in. I could get all of my gear in it if I wanted to (but choose not to).

I do own a #4 Duluth pack, but seldom take it. It is advertised as 7920 Cu in. The problem is that it is soooo heavy when loaded.

Disclaimer written by Dan Cooke of Cooke Custom Sewing.

How much pack can only be answered by how much and what do you plan to fit in that pack.

How the items fit into the pack effects what fits and will not fit; and how comfortable it will be to carry. If your sleeping bag is longer or bigger around than than the pack, the pack will not carry well with voids in the pack. Packs carry best when filled but not distorted from there designed shape. (The tradition #3 pack has to be distorted as it is sewn flat like a pillow case. Depth of the pack is stolen from the width.)

Cubic inches claims can be misleading. Most manufacturers in the past played the cu inch game of their packs had more cubic inches per dollar. They used seed corn to fill a pack, then measured what came out of the distended pack that most would refuse to carry in that mis-shapened form. As the pack form changes to closer to a sphere / cylinder the volume increases. You would not want to carry that form.

I looked at several sites this evening, some have scaled back their volume claims to match the volume formula of height times depth times width. (I guess my previous rants about misleading cubic inches made it to some of them)

One manufacturer says a pack with 26 x28 x6 has a volume of 7290 Cubic inches. (by math those dimensions equal a volume of 4368 cu inches.)

Another includes the snorkel extension as part of the packs volume, and they inform you that snorkel is include on some models.

Best to check the dimensions and do the math yourself to understand more completely what you are considering

Best to make sure what the size and form is of what you want to take is. Maybe duct tape up a cardboard box to replicate the size you are considering.

General statements that I believe are fair.
The wider a pack is than you the more it waddles and will make you waddle as you walk.
The further back the pack extends behind you, the more you may lean or be pulled.
Hip belts and tump lines fight each others function.
Hip belts can make a pack easier to carry, but need the strap to tighten the front of the hip belt to the pack body. (otherwise the pack is free to waddle on the hip belt connection to the pack).
Taller packs can get in the way of portage yokes, as well as the load lifter straps that extend up from the shoulder straps.

Dan Cooke

Dan,

I wish you'd post your knowledge more often. I'm looking at picking up an additional pack this year and really appreciate what you've shared. Thanks!

I am still using a traditional backpack for tripping. One of these days, I will purchase a portage pack. This thread has great data I had not considered yet. Thanks all.

pack size illustration

read the article and look at the diagrams - this gives a good idea about how much packs hold - you can find out the dimensions of these bags, see how much they hold, and compare these dimensions with other packs you shop

I am shopping another pack right now. I know I need one more to take care of the different trips (with different numbers of people each trip) that will happen this summer. You kind of have to go at it a little at a time I think. Measure the dimensions of things you know you will take, collect them and envision different ways to pack the items most efficiently - think about different configurations. I have a measuring tape and a calculator by my computer and my "stuff". I am forever measuring, figuring volume, "shopping". It's kind of a winter hobby. What will happen when I don't have to buy anything anymore? AAAAAHHHHHH! (oh yeah, fishing lures, new boots, pants, . . . )

I am shopping another pack right now. I know I need one more to take care of the different trips (with different numbers of people each trip) that will happen this summer. You kind of have to go at it a little at a time I think. Measure the dimensions of things you know you will take, collect them and envision different ways to pack the items most efficiently - think about different configurations. I have a measuring tape and a calculator by my computer and my "stuff". I am forever measuring, figuring volume, "shopping". It's kind of a winter hobby. What will happen when I don't have to buy anything anymore? AAAAAHHHHHH! (oh yeah, fishing lures, new boots, pants, . . . )

sorry two posts

WOW. I cannot thank all of you who contributed to this discussion enough. A wealth of quality information here, and I was also happy to see that it appeared to be a helpful question for others as well. Of course I'll still keep an eye on this thread should their be add'l opinions / thoughts users want to throw out, but I just wanted to make sure I said thanks to all those who replied. It's very encouraging as I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions as we continue to plan for our trip. Thanks.

just thought i'd add my two cents. my group usually consists of 6 guys and we carry three granite gear superior one's. (7400 ci). and that's it. each pack holds 2 guys' gear, their share of the food and group equipment. 6 guys- 3 packs, 3 canoes. makes portaging so much easier. no doubling back on the trail.

I have a friend that used to use an old-style external frame pack for BWCA use. While these packs can be a pain to fit into a canoe, he had his set up so that the frame of the pack made contact with his yoke thwart, transfering much of the weight of the canoe to his hip belt. Always thought that was something worth checking out myself (but haven't done it). I have lost touch with him over the years so don't know if he still does this. Marty, are you there?