We are planning quite a haul. Most of us greenhorns to the BWCA. We are thinking of Entry 54 seagull lake and then the arduous 410 rod portage to Japanese Lake. Are we biting of more than we can chew? This is an honest inquiry to those experienced with portage issues, unique situations and other things posed with a trip to the BWCA. Details of the portage would be helpful. We expect with the length of portage we can avoid pop. density issues. True? Decent fishing? I'm not bragging but giving an indication of experience: Winter camping -17 below 6 miles into a state forest, 25 lb pack weight to trips with 54 lb packs. experienced campers,canoeists. Answers appreciated to any or all ?'s. I'm trying to tap the seemingly endless experience/ knowledge of members here. Thank you.

I haver never been in at the EP, but just about starting off with a 1.25 mile, one-way portage is nothing I would choose to do with almost anyone, much less even healthy newbies.

Hope someone smarter then me responds...

humm?

Not only that there is quite a paddle just to cross seagull. We are trying to go remote and we thought that would weed out quite a few adventurers. Is there an easier way?

long portages are about the best way to find solitue, that and going to quetico or going off season...

Anyway, a couple things on the long portage, make sure everyone will have a positive mental attitude going into it, a long portage with someone that can't take it can ruin an entire trip. also, pack very light, if you can single portage, that would be best given the length, if you can not, you will be walking the portage 3 times (twice loaded). Regarding single vs. double portage, absolutely do not try to take more than you can handle, my rule is typically 40% of body weight is about the most i expect people to portage, much more, and you run a good risk of injury - this rule varys depending on who you talk to.

on a final note, i typically don't take new people in areas that require long portages as i find it is usually a shock to people when they first start having to carry everything for the trip. it has the potential to not only ruin a trip, but a persons willingness to do future trips.

anyway, that being said, sounds like you all are fairly well expirienced so i'd say if you want to go for it, do so.

That's the stuff I'm looking for! Keep it coming, many thanks. How do you single portage if you have a backpack that interferes with the canoe yoke? (I have a trusty aluminum frame from the eighties that has more miles than route 66.. I can't part with it just yet) Its those kind of logistics that I have yet to figure out and would like to hear others opinions/ingenuity. Thanks moosedrool. A follow up?

According to Voyaguer Maps (which calls the lake Paulson), the portage from Seagull is 515 rods. I've never been to that lake, but you might consider going in EP 52 instead--you can reach Paulson/Jap in about the same number of rods but you don't have to do them all at once. If you really want to do the long portage (and I'm all for a challenge), I'd suggest doing it towards the end of your trip when the food pack is the lightest and you've had some time to get a portaging routine worked out.

For a portage of that length - and I've done longer - I'd suggest leapfrogging across. There are several reasons for this - sanity, pain tolerance and not leaving your food pack untended for any length of time (bears).

if your pack interferes with the yoke of your canoe, you would have to have less but heavier packs, so for a 4 man crew with 2 canoes, you would have 2 people carry the canoes and the other two would have to take the rest of the stuff including packs, paddles, and any other loose gear such as fishing poles, etc depending on how you have stuff arranged.

another thing that could work for the same example and what a lot of people do who strive for the single portage would be to have 4 packs (2 heavy, 2 light) and the canoe carries also carry a light pack with the canoe.

another way to get a crap load of stuff across at once (which i do not recommend normally) is to double load packs on, one on your back, one on your front. this is a rather dangerous way to do it however as you normaally can't see your foot placement and is a great way to break an ankle.

Most people do not single portage as there is typically too much stuff and it does lend itself to more injuries, even as simple as stress fractures. Perhaps the best option we've seen on this thread is the leap frog technique from Beemer, there are a lot of good reasons listed for going that way.

Of course all this depends on how many comforts you want to bring with you, a lot of weight can be cut down by limiting fishing tackle, going with dried foods, carrying less water(refilling often), leaving the camp chair at home, no sleeping pad, etc... it just depends on what you want to get out of the trip.

Have you thought about heading into one of the PMA's (Primitive Management Areas)? Sounds like you have an experienced group of outdoorsmen and if solitude is important to you it might be worth checking out. There are no established campsites or maintained portages, so you are really exploring in a PMA and your endorsement from the USFS guarantees that you will not have any other visitors in your designated area on the days of your visit.

If you want more info look in the Trip Reports section. I think Bogwalker or Beemer did a great report on a ballbusting PMA trip last year. I have never done a PMA trip but we will be in the Fungus Lake PMA for 3 days this June to check it out... I will definitely post a write up...

I've done the portage coming the other way from "JAP" to Seagull. It's a long trek. Watch out for moose paths that look like the partage when you pass through grassy meadows, we got sidetracked there but it may be diffent coming from the other direction. The point in which you drop down into "JAP" lake is fairly steep so get a good rest before completing that final stretch.

We where there in June 2002 and spent our last night of the trip there. We camped on the island and we had the place to ourselves. We caught lake trout right in front of camp floating leeches off the bottom. It was a blast! I would go there again. The lakes to the south are all little gems as well.

I'd go for it. The journey is part of the adventure!

Hex

Is that portage even there anymore? That was one of the areas hit by that last big fire. I thought I heard that trail was obliterated. Even if it is there it has got to be really hard to follow.

I think JAP (Paulson) is a lake trout lake. So if you are after lake trout, you're good. There probably isn't much else in it.

Seagull is a nice lake. It is popular. I believe about half of it has motorboat access. Seagull was part of the fire too as well as many surrounding lakes.

I haven't been there since the fire, so I don't know any of this first hand.

You all have been very helpful. I'm eating this up. If you have the time keep it coming. Definitely like the leap frog idea. Leeches off the bottom, awesome tip, thank you. Has any one ever utilized an outfitter to get a tow? (to get a jump on the distance) specifically: across part of seagull.

I was on seagull a couple years ago and it was pretty badly burned. At least one of the campsites on the lake just west of seagull wasn't usable. Paddling across wasn't bad. In my opinion a tow wouldnt be necessary. The portages we did around seagull were fine. I think the forest service people have cleared up most of the burned ones.

Seagull outfitters gave us a tow on 2000 and it saved a few hours of paddling. You can check their rates if interested.

I think leapfrogging is the way to go. The person carrying the canoe can wear a regular daypack also. Use compression sacks for your soft gear (sleeping bags, clothes, tarp/tent, etc.) as this will greatly reduce the bulk in your packs. Also, make sure to have enough water on hand.

I would go for it but just make sure you don't lose the trail in the burn area. I would check with the outfitter for info on this one.

From experience i can tell you to double think that. It really sucks when your portage is that long and every one else relizes they cant carry there pack so you go back and forth grabbing everything the "weak" people can't carry

I have done the JAP lake portage a half dozen times in the 1980s.At that time it had good rainbow trout in it.We always did the portage in one carry with a few rests.It took a little more than an hour.The trail was well kept then.I went bsck in 2001 coming in from the south and it very blown down.The campsite on the island was unrecognizable.tg

Wow, this bulletin has some good stuff. Thank you

I haven't been to Jap in about 15 years, if memory serves, sections of the portage crisses and crosses a river bed. Not much water, but your standard BWCA rocks. Does that sound about right to you guys?

Heron3 you sound like you know it! That's exactly what I was told by an experienced Bounder.(coin that by the way, "Bounder") Thanks again for all the input on this thread.

There are some more good suggestions for packing in wine in the cooking/recipes

Also for bait ideas, some folks in the chat room mentioned gulp. I've nevered used it, but for packing purposes it might be worth looking into.

Some might call this cheating, but I would buy the light weight canoe and kayak cart from Piragis and take turns pulling my canoe with everyone's gear in it.
I have never used this cart but the older I get the more appealing it looks to me.
Good luck.

"Some might call this cheating"

...not to mention, illegal.

Not to mention darn near impossible on most portages !

Even tho I have not been to BWCA I am getting to know the rules thus far and am aware of the no hauler rule. From the sounds of it you would end up carrying all your gear AND the hauler anyway. sorry mallard. that advice is a dead duck. Thanks for your enthusiasm. K good job keep em' in line.

I'd be more concerned about the blowdown/fire issues in that area. I think that you may want to find an alternative EP. I have been told that parts of that region are no longer what they used to be ...

quote Beemer01: "For a portage of that length - and I've done longer - I'd suggest leapfrogging across. There are several reasons for this - sanity, pain tolerance and not leaving your food pack untended for any length of time (bears)."

+1

if you can't do single portages, try the 1 1/2 portage. Person A - go roughly 1/2 way (If you don't know how far that is just call it 15 minutes) and set down your stuff and go back to get what you couldn't carry and carry it all the way. Person B- carry all you can to the end of the portage and come back to the (roughly) 1/2 way point and pick up person A's dropped load and bring it to portage end.

I was reading this thread and thinking, "It all sounds familiar." Then I looked and realized it was an eight-year-old thread that had somehow been resurrected. Makes me wonder if sinking3 ever took that trip and what his trip mates thought of the portage?

quote Spartan2: "I was reading this thread and thinking, "It all sounds familiar." Then I looked and realized it was an eight-year-old thread that had somehow been resurrected. Makes me wonder if sinking3 ever took that trip and what his trip mates thought of the portage?"

Me too, (LOL)! I figured it out when I got to Amok's post.

It's so surreal seeing Amok and Kanoes in a thread, their spirits live on !

Back about 20 years or so when I was a lot dumber than now, my son and I decided to go to JAP for lunch. I carted a Grumman 18.5 at 72 pounds over AND back without stopping either way in a some 4 hour round trip. The portage itself is long as you know and we enjoyed the ups and downs and meadows too. Go for it and do not think twice about the decision, I did all the carrying as the son was about 13. I was about 52 years old at the time and am not anybody' hulk speciman. The thing I did to go on trips back then was to carry my canoe around the neighborhood most every day for a month up and down hills to get trip ready. Neighbors noticed and missed me as the practice portages became less as age and the resulting base camps replaced "youth" and long portage trips. Do the practices if possible or your portage will cause pain in your arms and neck especially. Your legs will hurt too. Do not think being younger and in "shape" will replace the practice runs. Muscle use will vary from regular use. No canoe, take a back pack loaded on the same preparation venue. Not as good, but it will help.