My dad and I were planning to paddle up the Little Indian Sioux through EP14, but the entry date we wanted is booked. EP9, just south of the Echo Trail still has our entry date available.
Would it be okay to put in at EP9 and just paddle north along the river instead of south? I'm afraid we would be sidestepping the whole point of the quota system but I thought I would ask.

If you were checked by the Forest Service you would be found in violation of your permit. On the other hand, LIS is cool country, marsh and bog and river and not a lot of traffic.

So if you enter south of the Echo Trail, you have to STAY south of the Echo Trail?

My thinking is you have to exit the bwca to get to LIS north (EP 14) from EP 9 thus making your permit invalid.

quote mr.barley: "My thinking is you have to exit the bwca to get to LIS north (EP 14) from EP 9 thus making your permit invalid."

It is a good question... There was a trip report in the BWJ a while back that had a couple starting their trip below the Echo trail like at Cummings and went up across the echo trail all the way to Mudro. In other parts of the BW, it's ok to go through the sections of non bwca waters if you continue straight on through. I don't think the LIS So entry was meant to go north, but there is a precedence. Good ? for park official.

You can't paddle up on the river from south of the trail to the north? It appears that you could on the map, but it's hard to tell for sure. Assuming that it's too narrow, rapids, etc., there is also a 119 rod portage that connects south and north. That would seem to suggest travel between the north and south portions is allowed.

quote mr.barley: "My thinking is you have to exit the bwca to get to LIS north (EP 14) from EP 9 thus making your permit invalid."

i agree. i would consider the echo trail outside of the BW.

quote dsherman: "You can't paddle up on the river from south of the trail to the north? It appears that you could on the map, but it's hard to tell for sure. Assuming that it's too narrow, rapids, etc., there is also a 119 rod portage that connects south and north. That would seem to suggest travel between the north and south portions is allowed."

I very much that doubt it is allowed since you are technically leaving the BWCA. The ECHO trail is not in the BWCA. It is a road between portions of the BWCA. To get from south LIS to north LIS you have to exit the BWCA regardless if it's passable or not.

Permit for #9 Entry Point states: FOR TRAVEL SOUTH OF THE ECHO TRAIL ONLY. So it seems to me the answer is no.
Bruce

If you double portage and start your trip on a portage which has the BWCA boundary through it then technically you have left the BWCA on your empty return trip for the second load, and you re-enter with the second load.

quote peabody: "If you double portage and start your trip on a portage which has the BWCA boundary through it then technically you have left the BWCA on your empty return trip for the second load, and you re-enter with the second load. "

hahaha. funny, the lis south lot IS north of the echo trail.

It's kind of what I figured, but I thought I would ask.

The last technicality is the portage connecting the north and south. Is the portage trail considered BWCA territory or not? For example, what if you paddled south down the LIS and stayed the night on Bootleg, then paddled north, took the portage, and then camped on Upper Pauness during the same trip?

technically, id suppose, you dont actually enter the BW until your canoe is free from land and floating.

There's no doubt in my mind that if you get caught north of the Echo Trail on an EP9 permit, you'd be in trouble. As you said, that's what the whole quota system is about. I have to assume then, that if you entered Crab, paddled and portaged all the way to and down Moose or Portage rivers, even if you paddle under the bridge, you're done at that point. After all, the BW still ends before you get to a bridge.
Same with EP9, it takes some paddling just to get to the actual BW border. When paddling back north, your permit is actually used up before you even get back to the bridge.

quote carlton1812: "Permit for #9 Entry Point states: FOR TRAVEL SOUTH OF THE ECHO TRAIL ONLY. So it seems to me the answer is no.
Bruce"

Kind of like the provision for camping on Horse Lake where certain Mudro permits don't let you camp there. That does define that you can't cross north. But if you got a permit for Trout or Crab you may be able to cross and go north. After reading the BWJ article a while back I thought of trying the loop off Burtside to LIS up to LLC over to Mudro or Range or something and back down to Burtside. The couple in the article got dropped off and picked up by an outfitter. I doubt an outfitter would have had someone do that if it wasn't legal... and let them document it in a widely read magazine.

Thanks for clearing that up. We ended up getting an EP14 permit on a different day. Looking forward to it!

For the record in case someone like me is trip planning, the permit states, "NOTE: Use EP #14 for Little Indian Sioux travel NORTH of the Echo Trail. " This implies that you can go north after using the portage to go south on the LIS to Little Trout or Chad. The folks who made the trip report went to Little Trout.