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      Permethrin- how long

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keth0601  
04/15/2012 10:35AM
So I was looking over the instructions for the sawyer permethrin as I'm about to do my first application for this year and notice that it says "through 42 days of exposure to sun and air" does this mean that if kept in a black trash bag it could last a very long time? how long do you typically go before you find you have to apply more? I wonder how it is that the "insect shield" clothing which is essentially just treated with permethrin can last up to 70 washings where the sawyer is only supposed to last 6?
 
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Savage Voyageur  
04/15/2012 11:19AM
I use this product every year. I wash my clothes when I return and the next trip I reapply the Permethrin. Works for me. I only apply the permethrin a few days before the trip.
AdamXChicago  
04/15/2012 12:46PM
Not wanting to tempt fate, I'll apply the Perm a week before the trip. After drying thoroughly, I'll keep these clothes in a sealed plastic bag until needed.

Probably overkill, but I really don't want the bug nuisance messing with my trip.


AdamX
strom2127  
04/15/2012 12:48PM
last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though.
SunCatcher  
04/15/2012 02:35PM
quote keth0601: "So I was looking over the instructions for the sawyer permethrin as I'm about to do my first application for this year and notice that it says "through 42 days of exposure to sun and air" does this mean that if kept in a black trash bag it could last a very long time? how long do you typically go before you find you have to apply more? I wonder how it is that the "insect shield" clothing which is essentially just treated with permethrin can last up to 70 washings where the sawyer is only supposed to last 6? "

If you apply the permetherin to the clothes, LET IT DRY, and then put them in a sealed bag. The Permetherin will last a long time several weeks. Why? Because of the lack of oxygen, you have created an anarobic environment, so theyre is no aerobic activity to break down the permetherin, and store out of the heat, and light, and it will last several weeks. I DOUBT the "insect shield" clothing lasts seventy washing, I highly doubt it. They may soak the clothe before they sew the clothing? Or afterwords treat it, but I see know way in heck that the protection would last 70 washings.

SunCatcher
gunny  
04/15/2012 03:52PM
quote strom2127: "last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though."
Did you spray your hammock or soak it? Tarp also?
Don
strom2127  
04/15/2012 06:19PM
quote gunny: "quote strom2127: "last year was the first time I used it. I applied it to my hammock and clothes about a week before I left, and I never even zipped up the hammock during the days, and never so much as heard a buzz in the evening. The stuff works wonders! I wouldn't be able to say, nor would I want to try to see how long it remains effective from application though."
Did you spray your hammock or soak it? Tarp also?
Don"


I sprayed it thoroughly. I did not spray the tarp.
SunCatcher  
04/15/2012 06:35PM
I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher
KevinL  
04/15/2012 07:48PM
I’m one of those who dilutes from farm supply stuff. I soak tent, rain tarp, and clothes for about two hours and then hang on the line and dry. Clothes go into a garbage bag until the first morning.

I have never done the rain fly on the tent though. It’s fun to watch a mosquito follow you into the tent as the just do a vanishing act.

Will be doing the same to my hammock this year.
bbrown6057  
04/15/2012 11:26PM
So the stuff does work. I went to Backwoods outdoor center down the road and found the stuff and a can does 2 coats, 1 for me and 1 for her. For $9.00 a can I guess it's worth it.
butthead  
04/16/2012 06:22AM
Sawyer Tips and Tricks

#6 washer deterioration

butthead
keth0601  
04/16/2012 07:30AM
I've already read the sawyer tips. I was more curious about #7 where it says that dark plastic bags can preserve the applications. I am wondering how long it preserves it. Reason I'm wondering is I want to keep a full treated outfit in my truck in a plastic bag and I'm wondering how long it will last since it probably will only be subject to light use. Since they advertise 42 days of exposure I'm wondering if kept in a black plastic bag between, those 42 days could be stretched out all summer.
mirth  
04/16/2012 11:06AM
quote keth0601: "I've already read the sawyer tips. I was more curious about #7 where it says that dark plastic bags can preserve the applications. I am wondering how long it preserves it. Reason I'm wondering is I want to keep a full treated outfit in my truck in a plastic bag and I'm wondering how long it will last since it probably will only be subject to light use. Since they advertise 42 days of exposure I'm wondering if kept in a black plastic bag between, those 42 days could be stretched out all summer."

The stuff breaks down in sunlight, so that's why they tell you to store treated items in an opaque bag. I think if you're keeping the stuff out of the light you should be able to stretch it all summer.
SouthernExposure  
04/16/2012 04:01PM
After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.

I suppose that storing them in the same black plastic bags would help prolong the effectiveness. I would made certain to squeeze out as much air as I could from the bag before closing it up with a twist tie.

SE
CanoeKev  
04/16/2012 07:46PM
quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?
kanoes  
04/16/2012 07:50PM
quote SouthernExposure: "After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.

I suppose that storing them in the same black plastic bags would help prolong the effectiveness. I would made certain to squeeze out as much air as I could from the bag before closing it up with a twist tie.

SE"

nice tip. thanks.
SunCatcher  
04/16/2012 07:51PM
quote CanoeKev: "quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?"


I have NO EVIDENCE, here is the deal, some permetherin's would be ok and some would not. Because of their FORMULATION. Some are OIL based and some WATER based. If you put an oil based product on a tarp or tent, the oil in it or emulsifiers will cut through the coating and render the tent or tarp useless in rain. SO make sure you know what type of product you have and what you are using it for.
If the LABEL states it's ok to do so, then it is more than likely a waterbased product and safe.

My Statement was because many folks are using 'stuff" from different suppliers and have no idea. So to be safe, I would not treat MY tent or TARP.

Not trying to be a know it all just want folks informed.
SunCatcher
PINETREE  
04/16/2012 09:58PM
I sprayed a little off deet on my tent last year and it was good bye coating in that area. Scary>
CanoeKev  
04/17/2012 03:45PM
quote SunCatcher: "quote CanoeKev: "quote SunCatcher: "I would NOT spray the tarp...may damage it.
I would not spray the tent either...just me
SunCatcher"

Been using it on tent and tarp for years. No damage yet. What evidence do you have that it will damage a tarp?"



I have NO EVIDENCE, here is the deal, some permetherin's would be ok and some would not. Because of their FORMULATION. Some are OIL based and some WATER based. If you put an oil based product on a tarp or tent, the oil in it or emulsifiers will cut through the coating and render the tent or tarp useless in rain. SO make sure you know what type of product you have and what you are using it for.
If the LABEL states it's ok to do so, then it is more than likely a waterbased product and safe.


My Statement was because many folks are using 'stuff" from different suppliers and have no idea. So to be safe, I would not treat MY tent or TARP.


Not trying to be a know it all just want folks informed.
SunCatcher"

I've always used the concentrated agricultural product (diluted of course), which I believe may have some oil, but no problems so far.
SunCatcher  
04/17/2012 06:46PM
Who would of thought a little bug dope on clothes could get so damm compicated. For Petes sake.....
SunCatcher
vickieh69  
04/17/2012 08:19PM
quote SouthernExposure: "After soaking your clothes in the diluted solution, I found a tip online that would help. Lay your clothes out flat on black plastic in a shady spot with plenty of air circulation. This prevents the solution from draining away from one area of your clothes and concentrating in another as would happen if you simply hung it up to dry. Flip your treated clothes over periodically to help dry them out evenly. This does take a little longer, but you know that there will not be lightly treated areas where ticks are most likely to find their way under your clothes.
SE"


Thanks for that tip. I did not come across that one when doing my research.

vickieh69  
04/17/2012 08:20PM
I used the Sawyer brand spray on solution 2 years ago. My treated clothes were used on a total of 8 trips to the BWCA. I did not retreat last season and the biting flys never bothered me but did others in my group. I did not store my items in a garbage bag and often times I would wear my pants at least once a week during the off season.

I am going the agricultural route this year and will soak our clothing in it for ~3 hours. I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. Not only am I saving on the cost but also saving on the forearm from pulling the spray trigger over & over & over.......

Now I just have to figure out how to properly dispose of the solution when I am done?????

Maybe I can find a local farm that would be able to use it?
keth0601  
04/17/2012 08:55PM
quote vickieh69: "I used the Sawyer brand spray on solution 2 years ago. My treated clothes were used on a total of 8 trips to the BWCA. I did not retreat last season and the biting flys never bothered me but did others in my group. I did not store my items in a garbage bag and often times I would wear my pants at least once a week during the off season.


I am going the agricultural route this year and will soak our clothing in it for ~3 hours. I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. Not only am I saving on the cost but also saving on the forearm from pulling the spray trigger over & over & over.......


Now I just have to figure out how to properly dispose of the solution when I am done?????


Maybe I can find a local farm that would be able to use it? "


Put it in a spray bottle and sell it?
mirth  
04/17/2012 10:11PM
Treat the shrubs and bushes around your yard where skeeters hide?
vickieh69  
04/17/2012 11:09PM
quote mirth: "Treat the shrubs and bushes around your yard where skeeters hide? "

Thats a possiblity....but I have a little one. I know once the product is dry on clothing it poses no risk but I have not looked at the risk factors when used that way. I would have to research that. Thanks for the idea :)
CanoeKev  
04/18/2012 03:17PM
quote vickieh69: " I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. "

Actually, 32 oz of 10% solution will make 5 gallons of .5%, not 50, but it is still a great deal. I usually use the 36% concentrate, which is even a better deal.
vickieh69  
04/18/2012 03:26PM
quote CanoeKev: "quote vickieh69: " I think I paid ~ $10.00 for 32oz of a 10% Permethrin solution (which diluted to a 0.5% soln. will yeild 50 GALLONS) vs ~ $15.00 for 24oz of the Sawyer 0.5% solution. "


Actually, 32 oz of 10% solution will make 5 gallons of .5%, not 50, but it is still a great deal. I usually use the 36% concentrate, which is even a better deal."


Following the instructions on the bottle for a 0.5% solution is to mix .64 oz per gallon of water.
Castaway  
04/18/2012 09:53PM
I think the instructions on the bottle misplaced the period. It should be 6.4 oz per gallon of water, which will yield 5 gallons of .5% solution from the 32 oz bottle of 10% solution.
Thwarted  
04/19/2012 03:18PM
Best thread ever! I used the ag stuff last year and had not planned to retreat. Now I believe I will.
I used the excess last year to spray around the base of the house whch makes my wife very happy. I just poured it into a one gallon sprayer and went to work.

Thanks all.
vickieh69  
04/19/2012 05:17PM
quote Castaway: "I think the instructions on the bottle misplaced the period. It should be 6.4 oz per gallon of water, which will yield 5 gallons of .5% solution from the 32 oz bottle of 10% solution. "

Thank you so much for questionin this. Truley. I would have diluted it down to a 0.05% soln and been cursing like a sailor when I was getting eaten alive. :)
pamonster  
04/20/2012 08:23AM
Sort of straying off the main topic a little but something important for anyone using these products to be aware of. Pyrethroids e.g. Permethrin is extremely toxic to fish so any materials it's on should be kept out of the water. I know there would be a big dilution in the lakes up there but always best to lessen our impact. Not to mention if you have tanks at home don't spray it around them. Same with cats, it's toxic to them too.
mpeebles  
04/20/2012 09:28AM
Question. When you dilute the farm rated stuff (which I intend to do)to 0.5% do you spray the clothes as indicated on the Sawyer site or soak the clothes in the liquid? Tree planting and turkey hunting are coming up and I'll be putting this product/method to the ultimate tick prevention test. As an aside, I'm going to treat the turkey blind with it and see what the effects on the material are....not as expensive as the tent or tarp to replace. Thanks everyone!
CanoeKev  
04/20/2012 11:36AM
I soak my clothes and spray my tent with a garden sprayer (mostly on the inside).
Jestrem  
05/07/2012 12:17PM
Does anyone use Permethrin on their poly wicking layers?

When the instructions say "inner layers" are they talking about any layer that is directly against your skin? Or are they talking about under wear?

The reason I ask... It seems counter intuitive when you may only be wearing one layer in warmer weather?

Then I read another contradiction about not putting on your hat or cap, but DO put it on your socks and cuffs. So, is the caution about sweaty areas?
 
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