Hello all,

I've been winter camping in a snowcave, and it was fun, but I'm looking for a way to do it that's 1) a bit less work, 2) less dependent on snow levels, and 3) less susceptible to me making dumb mistakes (I screwed up one year, it collapsed on me, and I had to spend the night in the backup tent...brrrr).

I don't know if you guys are familiar with pop-up fish shelters, but they seem like they might be just the ticket. They're fairly light, quick to set up, and insulated. I looked through the last few pages in here and didn't see any threads specifically asking about them, so I thought I'd start a thread to see if anyone has used one.

I have - in an Eskimo FatFish 767 (which is not one of the insulated models). I've also used tents and quinzees in the winter for comparison.

First, the quinzee is by far the warmest approach. It's a ton of work and highly dependent on the weather, yes, but if you're spending several nights in one spot, have the snow for it, and expect cold temperatures, go for it - they're downright cozy compared to the other options.

As for my experience with the fishing pop-up, there were both pros and cons. For the pros, it was a dual-duty item - I was able to use it for both fishing and sleeping (and laying in my warm sleeping bag while eying a tip-up when I got tired of jigging). It had enough room to sleep, fish, and cook all inside of one structure, and generally stay out of the wind. In that respect I supposed it's sort of like the SnowTrekker tents that others use. It is also very easy and fast to set up. For cons, first to mind is weight and bulk. My tents range from 4 to 8 pounds, my bivvy is 2 pounds, and the FatFish is a whopping 23 pounds and four and a half feet long. Second, because it's such a large space, it's a lot colder to sleep in than a small tent. I was using it solo - if you had two or three people in there things would be a lot better. Others have also pointed out that if you end up in an overflow situation and get wet sleeping on the lake, that's bad, and having your fishing hole right next to you might not help matters there (have a tarp around you somehow).

It's also a bit tricky to find the right model, depending on your requirements. For me, that meant having a floor large enough to fit an Exped DownMat 9 Long/Wide along one side (78"). I have so far failed to find an insulated pop-up that fits the requirement well - they're either too small (60" to 72" square) or too large (90" to 96" square), and since it's already on the big side for my needs I didn't want to go bigger. If you use a shorter mat, sleep diagonally, or let your mat ride up the side a bit, the 60" models would be fine. I have no idea how much difference the insulation really makes - like you said, not many people use them this way, so most people want the insulation just to reduce condensation when using a heater while fishing. I asked Eskimo if they planned to make an insulated version of the 767, and they said they had no plans for such a thing yet. (Maybe my e-mail will prompt them to consider it...) Clam didn't respond to an e-mail about their plans for a similar product. Insulated models are also significantly heavier.

For the empty space / warmth issue, the other day I prototyped a setup in the basement with two SOL Sport Utility Blankets and a bunch of bungee cords, with the idea being to keep more of my body heat near my body instead of filling the whole space. You can see what I came up with here. I haven't had a chance to try this outside yet, so don't know how well it works.

If you decide you want to go this route, I actually have two of the FatFish 767s at the moment, and if another person opts not to take it I'd be willing to sell you one at a very reasonable price.

I bought a 6x8 Clam Thermal Hub last year. I would highly recommend NOT using it for winter camping. Especially if you are going to put a heater or a lantern in it. The thermal ones just don't breath. First time I used it I was out fishing on a local lake. Had the Sunflower heater and the lantern on. My heater started acting up and the lantern was dimming. After a few minutes of trying to figure out what was wrong with the lantern and heater I noticed i was breathing heavy... I ripped the door open and they both flared back to life. Scary. I never close the door on it anymore. There is just not enough ventilation in them. Not to mention the frost buildup. My advise... don't do it. Camp cold or rent a canvas tent.

Wow, that is terrifying. Of course, everybody knows that using a sunflower-type heater in one of those is a terrible idea (it even merits a warning on page 70 of the Minnesota Fishing Regulations booklet, in the ice fishing section), and that with any kind of heater you're supposed to crack a window for ventilation, but it's interesting that you seem to have gotten to a dangerously low level of oxygen before a dangerously high level of carbon monoxide. (In other words, yeah, you're lucky you got the visible warning instead of just being dead.)

A sunflower and a lantern? Your just asking for it. Pop up houses work great for camping. Get yourself a buddy heater which has low oxygen shut off and a headlamp and your good to go. I just slept in mine this past weekend actually. The 949I from eskimo will sleep 2 guys and you can still have the buddy heater going. On a cot its downright warm.

Do yourself a favor and put your sunflower and lantern to rest. Either one can kill you

I know the Clam versions have a couple of air vents above the windows, and I figured having those open would be safe if I used my Buddy Heater with the low-oxygen shut off. Plus, with the thermal, it might be a bit warmer with less condensation.

But yes, a sunflower heater could definitely be trouble. Good to hear that you made it out without anything going seriously wrong.

I've thought about these pop ups before for winter camping. If you already have a hub house I think you could make it work to save yourself from having to buy extra gear.

The main thing is dealing with the extra weight and bulk so it will sort of depend on the trip and what you are willing to deal with. For a trip with minimal traveling I think it could work great.

If you are using in the BWCA as a shelter I don't think I'd start fishing out of it while out there though. I'd leave it set up somewhere protected from the wind and then fish out in the open. I wouldn't want to deal with open holes in my shelter when its a little more critical to keep your gear dry.

If you wanted to bring a heater along for sure skip the sunflower heater. You'll be dead long before morning with one of those. The Buddy heaters with the low oxygen shut off will keep you warm and safe. Just have to deal with bringing in the propane.

How did the thermal blanket set up in the Eskimo work for you, Tony???? Looks pretty sweet!