So time and time again I see Hammock guys saying their setup weighs less and sets up faster and I can't help but wonder how true that really is considering how light some of the 1&2 man tents are today.


So what’s the avg set up weight, has to include the hammock, the tarp, a bug screen and ALL rigging that is brought on a trip (not just what you use.



Example I came up with based on what I see mentioned on here frequently, we will just assume a 250lb weight rating as the minimum (no limits for a tent)

Blackbird Single 1.7 24oz

Superfly Tarp 19oz



Add in suspension and guy lines and it has to be pushing 4lbs,or maybe not, you tell me :)



Contrast to some of the nice lightweight 1&2 person tents that can be much less, The Big Agnes Fly Creek units, the Tarp Tents heck even the roomy Copper Spur 2 is less than 3.5 lbs.


I know for many it’s about comfort and not weight, which I understand completely, but unless I’m missing something is it time the hangers drop the “weighs less” statement?



Yes I'm aware in a tent you will have to bring an air mattress, but to insulate one’s self in a hammock you will have to bring a good under quilt to compliment your bag, and a quick glance seems to indicate the two weigh about the same so it’s a moot point.

As far as speed, goes I don't think that can be universally faster or slower, I can pitch a little tent pretty dang fast if need be, longest part of my setup is always inflating the air pad but I have started using the Snozzle bag pump that came with a new Exped and its pretty darn fast, it could easily take longer to find a couple of suitable trees to hang from.



So yeah, curious as to what the TRUE weight of most hammock setups is, I honestly don’t know enough to know what all the rigging weighs but my gut says it’s going to be substantial, especially knowing you can’t predict how far apart trees are going to be there will always be some excess that is brought and likely unused.

I would call it even. If it's not who cares about a couple of pounds? What are the pros and cons of each? I know my hammock rig is way less bulky than a tent because I put it all in a compression sack and it gets down to the size of a football. This is all rigging of hammock and a superfly tarp with doors. I do keep my tie out stakes in a seperate sack with extra line. I don't have an underquilt yet but in a compression sack I bet it would be the size of a 12" softball.

A 2 man tent with poles, ground cloth, air pad, and kitchen tarp is undoubtably much more bulk. Hammockers don't need to bring a seperate tarp for the kitchen. If in an extended rain I would just undo one end of the hammock and hang out under the superfly.

There's 2 things that make the hammock a superior shelter in the BW.

1. There's no threat of ever becoming wet in a storm.
2. The lay is consistent every night. No uneven ground or rocks underneath to worry about.

In the end, the bulk in my pack makes a huge difference. The weight difference is negligible.

I've never weighed my Warbonnet but I believe that the rigging is included in the weight. The only things I added that didn't come physically attached to the hammock when I bought it were 2 carabiners and a couple tent stakes for tying out the "wings". Mosquito net is part of the hammock and adds no time to the setup. I don't know how other hammock manufacturers do it. I use a 10x10 CCS 1.1 Tundra tarp.

You're right that weights between the two probably aren't that much different but the hammock gets the nod in my case. I'd think over and under quilts would be less weight than equally rated pad and sleeping bag for tenting. If it's hot in the summer you don't need an under quilt in the hammock and it's quite a bit cooler having airflow under your back.

A bigger benefit rather than weight, at least to me, is multiple small packages instead of one larger one. I can cram the tarp in one cranny of the pack and the hammock in another.

My tent takes very little time to set up. The hammock even less. Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things I suppose.

Alan

Some tent stakes and carabineers could be 4-8 oz depending on the stakes and how many.

I would actually think an under quilt of would be heavier than an equally rated insulated pad, because the pad doesn't have to fight compression of the insulation so it should take less to achieve the same R-value, could be wrong with that logic, didn’t see any R-value ratings of the under quilts and even if there was we wouldn’t know how they compare as there is no standard for the R-Value measurement as pertains to sleeping pads and such.

So none of you hangers add any extra stuff to the kit, extra lines or guy lines?

For the record, I must point out that there isn't a rule about Tents having to be in the included sacks, I ditch the sacks and stuff my tent and tarp into an eVent compression sack, bulk is VERY minimal, the tiny pole set fits nicely in the corner of the pack, or on the outside if you are lucky enough to own a CCS or similar pack with straps and pockets on the side.

Good info guys, thanks!

I've been doing the same math, and it always comes up nearly dead even. A simple hammock weights the same as a simple tent, and a more featureful hammock weighs the same as a more featureful tent.

Yeah, but I would bet that it is a lot more expensive to go high end with a hammock than it is with a tent. So my wallet would be a whole lot lighter.

That is why so many hangers are also DIYers.

Comfort, comfort, comfort.

quote Beemer01: "Comfort, comfort, comfort.


"

Maybe, but that isn't the topic :)

Here is what I came up with regarding my hammock set up.

Warbonnet Black Bird 1.7 Double. 37oz with webbing suspension
Carabineers- 1.7oz for the pair.
Superfly- 19oz.
Hammock Gear top quilt, Long/Wide, 20 degree-21.1 oz
HG Underquilt 20 degree+2oz extra down, full length-27oz.
Msr Ground Hog Stakes, 6- 4.26oz
Roughly 80' of 1/8" rope from CCS- no idea on weight, lets say 14 oz.


That's 124oz or 7.75lbs.

Probably more than a one or two man tent and pad/bag combo, maybe not, I have no idea. I just know that three years ago I was rolling around on the ground in a tent on the shores of Sea Gull and muttering to myself, "eff this, I'm going to try a hammock", I've never slept better. My set up could weigh twenty pounds and I'd still take it.

Maybe the "save weight ride a hammock" statements are just enthusiasts trying to convert ground dwellers?

i like adding oz's and not $$$$

Blackbird 1.1 double 28oz
ccs 10x12 1.1 tarp 22oz
20 degree top quilt 21oz
20 degree under Quilt 18oz

All that equals 89oz so about 5.5 pounds. Add a few more oz for some short lengths of paracord getting a nice pitch on tarp.

So to compare you would need to weigh your tent/sleeping bag/sleeping pad and add them up.

I don't count grams. When I am on vacation I want to have a good time. That means staying warm and sleeping well, even if that means I have to carry a bit more.

quote Ragged: " I would actually think an under quilt of would be heavier than an equally rated insulated pad, because the pad doesn't have to fight compression of the insulation so it should take less to achieve the same R-value, could be wrong with that logic, didn’t see any R-value ratings of the under quilts and even if there was we wouldn’t know how they compare as there is no standard for the R-Value measurement as pertains to sleeping pads and such.

"

I was thinking along the lines that an under and upper quilt take the place of a sleeping bag and sleeping pad in a tent and that the combination of the under/upper quilt might weigh less than the pad/bag. Especially if you're camping in the summer without an under quilt.

Alan

Of course, the weights listed are for use in cool weather. I warm weather you can leave the underquilt at home. You can also remove the bug screen at times. Tents can be pretty miserable in hot weather. Hard to deconstruct a tent for use in milder conditions.

At this point I use a CCS Lean more than my hammock, but I cheat and take a luxurious pad. But for me that is the right combination of weight, bulk, space, and comfort.

Hammocks win for use in hot weather, easy setup, use on uneven ground.

quote jeroldharter: "Of course, the weights listed are for use in cool weather. I warm weather you can leave the underquilt at home. You can also remove the bug screen at times. Tents can be pretty miserable in hot weather. Hard to deconstruct a tent for use in milder conditions.

."

I don't know about that, every tent I own can be pitched with a foot print and fly only, that's a pretty easy to do, I can never do it because I'm one of those people that the bugs love to find, but the option is there and the tent body is the heaviest part of the tent, drops over a pound of off a Copper Spur 2, fast fly rig is 2lb 6oz, that's fly, footprint and poles, completely freestanding.

With the tarp, rigging, hammock and bug net I'd say your estimate of 4 lbs is pretty close for my setup.

There are many tents that are equal to this but there are lots more that aren't.

For me, more than just weight, I prefer the hammock because the packed size takes up less space in my pack or barrel.

The other benefits for me, as a larger frame, I sleep better than I do on a pad inside a tent. I don't need a level tent pad or worry about rocks or roots in the setup.

With experience they setup very quickly but the same can probably be said of the simpler designed tents.

Depending on which setup I bring, 4-5# is about right.
BUT; I never bring a chair, and yet have the best seat in the house. I never bring a secondary rain tarp, because my hammock is exactly where I want to hang out when the weather sucks. I never bring a laundry line and as always; I sleep better, and I sleep where I want.
/The ground is for peeing on

I know that I'm not going to give a good answer here but I just have to put in my two cents. On the ground I toss and turn and literally wake up more than three times and maybe as many as ten times a night (this is with a exped synmat 7). In my hammock I wake up...none....ever (because of discomfort). The weight and space that the setup consumes is very comparable to light tent setups. It's not for everyone though. At the end of the day a few ounces either way means nothing to me if it means a considerably more enjoyable experience. For those of you attached to your tents I strongly encourage you to continue doing it your way. If you suffer even just moderate discomfort, why not give a night in a swing a try?

If I tent, I take a....

Sierra Designs Ultra Lightyear w/ground sheet - 3 lbs. 8 oz.
Pillow - 5 oz.
Pad - Stephenson's Warmlite D.A.M. 1 lbs. 6 oz.

Total - 5 lbs. 3 oz.

If I hang, I take a....

Hennessy Hammock UL Backpacker Asym - 2 lbs. 3 oz.
(This includes stakes, fly, netting, tree straps, cord, and Snake Skins)
Jacks-R-Better Down UQ - 1 lbs. 2 oz.
No pillow needed

Total - 3 lbs. 5 oz.


Because the hammock & uq system takes less pack space, I can now use a slightly smaller, lighter pack with more weight savings.

Top quilt v.s. sleeping bag is a wash.

Most people don't have a good scale, but so far I'm seeing that the Warbonnet systems are running 2-3 pounds heavier than the Hennessy system. Something that I've suspected for some time.

quote PortageKeeper: "


Most people don't have a good scale, but so far I'm seeing that the Warbonnet systems are running 2-3 pounds heavier than the Hennessy system. Something that I've suspected for some time."

A blackbird 1.1 single layer hammock (200lbs limit like your hennesy) and an edge tarp 10.5x8 weighs 1.9 lbs. add stakes and line and your looking at 2.9 lbs. so while the WB set ups here are a bit heavier, they can be just as light as your set up. Just like you could buy a hennesy that holds more weight, and weighs more, for tubbys like me:)


All weights we gathered from WB.com and Hennessy's site.

In order to determine which i lighter I think you have to put some cost restraints on the equation. If you were to go netless and use a cuban fiber tarp it would be possible to have a lower weight hammock setup vs tent.

The other issue is the number of people per tent. Do you really want 3 people in a 3 man tent? If so you can easily say that tents are lighter than hammocks.

The other issue is temperature. I think in warmer weather you could say that hammocks are lighter because you don't need a UQ or a big tarp.

If you could factor things like comfort - lack of stick, roots and rocks along with snoring partners, soaked floors etc hammocks win hands down.

If I were doing a backpacking trip with 3 people and concerned about weight I would bring the tent. If I were in the BWCA and only had to worry about portaging a few extra pounds I'll take the hammock.

Clark Jungle Hammock - NX-150: 3 lbs 7 oz (includes internal bug net)
Warbonnet Superfly - 19 oz

Total: 4 lbs 10 oz

With the hammock I don't need a pad which equates to further weight and packing space savings over a tent.

Again, this wasn't a what’s better thread, or what works better for you thread, it was a "is it really lighter" thread :)

From the posts so far it would sure seem that if you trip in the shoulder seasons (needing backside insulation) a Hammock is not lighter, other seasons it might be a toss up. Either way it would seem the universal comments of them being lighter are a bit stretch.

Thanks for the replys, they have been great

quote Ragged: "Again, this wasn't a what’s better thread, or what works better for you thread, it was a "is it really lighter" thread :)


From the posts so far it would sure seem that if you trip in the shoulder seasons (needing backside insulation) a Hammock is not lighter, other seasons it might be a toss up. Either way it would seem the universal comments of them being lighter are a bit stretch.

Thanks for the replys, they have been great




"

Damn near impossible to not turn it into a which is better thread, akin to the "innie/outie" threads.

Just like anything, there are exceptions. Like "Heywoodja" said, a net-less gathered end hammock with a Cuban fiber tarp tied off to rocks and roots you would be real light.
Ill admit I don't know much about lightweight tents. Care to list a lightweight set up? Lets say tent/fly stakes, bottom,top insulation. Just curious.

quote RainGearRight: "

quote PortageKeeper: "



Most people don't have a good scale, but so far I'm seeing that the Warbonnet systems are running 2-3 pounds heavier than the Hennessy system. Something that I've suspected for some time."

A blackbird 1.1 single layer hammock (200lbs limit like your hennesy) and an edge tarp 10.5x8 weighs 1.9 lbs. add stakes and line and your looking at 2.9 lbs. so while the WB set ups here are a bit heavier, they can be just as light as your set up. Just like you could buy a hennesy that holds more weight, and weighs more, for tubbys like me:)



All weights we gathered from WB.com and Hennessy's site.
"

Understood.
I have never researched Warbonnet hammocks, and apparently they do offer lighter weight alternatives to what people here are choosing. Perhaps we need to wait and see if more Hennessy users chime in and give the weights of their systems. In the end, an all round average should tell the story.

quote Ragged: "Again, this wasn't a what’s better thread, or what works better for you thread, it was a "is it really lighter" thread :)


From the posts so far it would sure seem that if you trip in the shoulder seasons (needing backside insulation) a Hammock is not lighter, other seasons it might be a toss up. Either way it would seem the universal comments of them being lighter are a bit stretch.

Thanks for the replys, they have been great




"

I guess that all depends on the user, and what they consider 'lighter'. For me, 1 lb, 14 oz., not including less pack weight because the pack is smaller, IS lighter. The reason being, when I want to pack light, I reduce pack weight by cutting down weight in ALL areas (unfortunately not including my personal weight). I'm old school, and to me, 'ounces = pounds'. So when I'm cutting weight on ALL pack items, a savings of 30 oz. is big. Otherwise, I guess that I can see your point, because most people are not worried about an extra 30 oz.
Getting back to what others have said about the comfort issue, for me, getting better sleep, and being able to start my day 'pain free' by comparison, makes my whole day better, and I guess being able to travel further and do more things during the course of the day, because of that, makes everything seem lighter and easier.
I do believe that you have to look at 'everything combined and included', rather than just 'which is lighter', one or the other. Those of us who's bodies are in pain 24 hours/day, need the difference.

quote RainGearRight: "

Damn near impossible to not turn it into a which is better thread, akin to the "innie/outie" threads.


Just like anything, there are exceptions. Like "Heywoodja" said, a net-less gathered end hammock with a Cuban fiber tarp tied off to rocks and roots you would be real light.
Ill admit I don't know much about lightweight tents. Care to list a lightweight set up? Lets say tent/fly stakes, bottom,top insulation. Just curious.


"

Well it shouldn't be! Focus people!



I guess I didn't think we would venture into odd ball small shop stuff, lots of through hikers with 1lb Cuban tarp tents that sleep on nothing but the ground and use sub lb quilts....

For the sake of ease I’ll use examples available at mainstream places like REI, no small shop stuff.



Big Agnes Fly Creek 1 tent, complete with rain fly, stakes and guy lines, 2 lb 3oz

Exped Synmat 7 UL 16.2 oz

3lb 3 oz gets you a free standing shelter and a insulted pad that is good into the 20’s

How cold can you go in a Hammock before you need an under quilt?

Bag a stop quilts should be pretty comparable so I didn’t bother including it.

To be fair with the comparisons, I think tent users absolutely must include the weight of their sleeping pad.

While some may opt to use a pad in their hammock it is absolutely not necessary. I doubt the same can be said for sleeping on the ground in a tent. Some may have done it with just a sleeping bag but it's not a normal occurance.

There aren't many quality lightweight tents (tent, rainfly, sleeping mat, poles, stakes) that weigh less than a quality camping hammock and rainfly.

In general the premise that hammocks weigh less than tents is still true.

Before switching to my Clark Jungle Hammock, I used the ENO single nest hammock which is lighter than my Clark.

ENO Single Nest - 1 lb 8 oz
ENO Bug Net - 16 oz
Warbonnet Superfly - 1 lb 7 oz

total setup weight 3 lbs 15 oz (call it 4 lbs)

I think it's pretty comparable. If you want an ultralight tent it's available. Same is true for hammocks. Pads, it depends on what you need or want. Tarps can be superlight also. Stakes are the same. Hammocks need suspension, but it can be minimized. They don't need poles. Hammocking can be done without any hardware (knots only), and even stakes are unnecessary if there are enough trees. We're only talking about fabric, zippers (in some cases), line and pads (in most cases). Each approach can use about the same, depending on preference. My hammock set up weighs less than the 3 person tent I own, and it has no poles. Works for me. Sometimes I'd like the extra room, but what good is it if I can't sleep?

quote LuvMyBell: "
In general the premise that hammocks weigh less than tents is still true.
"

I really don't think so, but that's the point of this thread, and so far I haven't seen the case made.

Also according to Warbonets site your numbers are off a lil on the Superfly, and I see no guylines or stakes included, lets keep it fair!


Also if one takes down a hammock to hang out under the fly in lieu of a tarp one could do the same with a tent rain fly, they can be pitched like a tarp just fine, done it many times.

And I do agree, tent setups should include a good a pad, but a medium Exped Syn7 is lb and is good to 20, at 20 I think most hangers will be using an under quilt right? So then its a wash.

quote toddhunter: "I think it's pretty comparable. If you want an ultralight tent it's available. Same is true for hammocks. Pads, it depends on what you need or want. Tarps can be superlight also. Stakes are the same. Hammocks need suspension, but it can be minimized. They don't need poles. Hammocking can be done without any hardware (knots only), and even stakes are unnecessary if there are enough trees. We're only talking about fabric, zippers (in some cases), line and pads (in most cases). Each approach can use about the same, depending on preference. My hammock set up weighs less than the 3 person tent I own, and it has no poles. Works for me. Sometimes I'd like the extra room, but what good is it if I can't sleep?"

You sit, have won the Internet. I think they are comparable.

To answer Ragged's original question, I think the statement that hammocks are lighter than tent set ups all depends on what gear you have and how much you are willing to spend.

To make a blanket statement that all hammocks are lighter that tents just doesn't work.

You can use that exped in a hammock as well so that's a wash in my opinion.

quote RainGearRight: "


To make a blanket statement that all hammocks are lighter that tents just doesn't work.


You can use that exped in a hammock as well so that's a wash in my opinion. "

That’s exactly my point, top and bottom equipment is a relative wash, so its tent vs Hammock set up, with a light weight tent being a just over 2lb and a very luxurious 2 man being about 3.5, I just think it’s pretty hard to get a hammock, tarp and all the bells and whistles to come in lighter than 2-3.5 lbs.


So can we just agree once and for all that hammocks are NOT lighter :)



I will compromise and say if it’s hot and you are not needing underside insulation that a hammock could end up being lighter, but that’s part of June, July, August and part of Sept, and really June and September can both have fairly cold nights so I’m guessing most come prepared with something for the bottom anyways, leaving just 2-3 months of the 6 good tripping months, so again we are all tied up!

quote Ragged: "

quote LuvMyBell: "
In general the premise that hammocks weigh less than tents is still true.
"

I really don't think so, but that's the point of this thread, and so far I haven't seen the case made.

Also according to Warbonets site your numbers are off a lil on the Superfly, and I see no guylines or stakes included, lets keep it fair!



Also if one takes down a hammock to hang out under the fly in lieu of a tarp one could do the same with a tent rain fly, they can be pitched like a tarp just fine, done it many times.


And I do agree, tent setups should include a good a pad, but a medium Exped Syn7 is lb and is good to 20, at 20 I think most hangers will be using an under quilt right? So then its a wash.
"

Warbonnet superfly is 19 oz.... that's 1 lb 7 oz.
My Clark jungle hammock guy lines are included in the weight quoted.
For my ENO I should add another 8 0z for the slap straps.

As to eliminating the tarp, I can do that very easily with my Clark Jungle hammock. I have the internal weather shield which is also included in the quoted weight. The weather shield makes a tarp totally unnecessary even in the rain. I use a tarp for shade and to keep my hammock setup dry, not to keep me and my gear dry like other hammocks.

quote LuvMyBell: "

Warbonnet superfly is 19 oz.... that's 1 lb 7 oz.
My Clark jungle hammock guy lines are included in the weight quoted.
For my ENO I should add another 8 0z for the slap straps.

As to eliminating the tarp, I can do that very easily with my Clark Jungle hammock. I have the internal weather shield which is also included in the quoted weight. The weather shield makes a tarp totally unnecessary even in the rain. I use a tarp for shade and to keep my hammock setup dry, not to keep me and my gear dry like other hammocks."

19oz is 1lb 3oz, I was trying to help you there ;)

But if the website is right the Superfly weight does not include any guy lines, it says guy lines are sold separately, so I assumed the lines are not included in the 19oz weight, not that its going to add much but it should still be included, especially if you are like me and bring tons extra in case a close tie off isn’t convenient.

So now you are dropping the tarp altogether!?!

Even if you do that you are STILL at the same weight as a BA Copper Spur 2, leaving us tied yet again.

My hammock set up weighs less and packs smaller than my Sierra Designs, or REI Hoodoo 3 or REI ?? 3 person tents plus fly (all weighing about 5lbs's) plus sleeping bag, groundcloths, air mattress,stakes and rope etc.

Blackbird 1.1 double 25.5oz including rigging and bug net
Mamajamba tarp 13.5 oz
20 degree top quilt 23 oz
20 degree under Quilt 14.5 oz
Groundcloth 2 oz
8 stakes = 4oz
6 pieces 4' 3mm dyneema cord
2 pieces 6' 3mm dyneema cord
2 pieces 10' rope 56ft total 5oz

All that equals 87.5oz so about 5.5 pounds for my full set up.
If we discount the stakes, rope, and underquilt it equals 62 oz or 3.9 lbs.
If I'm hiking and want to save weight and weather permits, I just bring my tarp, groundcloth, foam pad, cord, stakes and topquilt. 55.5 oz or 3.5lbs.

Even at my heaviest with my hammock set up of 5.5 lbs, I'm less than my tent weight.
I love my tents and use them when I need them. I know I could go lighter if I went with a 2 person or solo tent but I like the extra room if I'm tenting. I prefer using my hammock whenever I can.

Crap.....I was using troy ounces (12 oz to a lb). I stand corrected.

EDITED: On the upside it does make my setup lighter then by 4 oz. My superfly guy lines are mil paracord and I doubt they weigh 4 oz.

Warbonnet blackbird 1.1 single with web and buckel suspension. 21oz
Hammock gear Cuban fiber tarp. 5.2oz

Drum roll..........

1.6lbs

Add 100' of zing-it for guy outs @ .12lbs /100' and you've got a grand total of
1.72lbs for a bug netted guyed out tarp and hammock, assuming you use stakes to secure your tent which don't factor in then.

This is as light as I could find, not my set up.

Ya got a counter?:)

WBBB single layer = 21oz
Cuban Aysm Hammock tarp - 4.3 oz

so 25 oz total or 1.5 lb approx

Tent rental option at the outfitter I use is Eureka 2 which is 5lbs 13oz

That being said I still believe that if weight is a concern and you have more than 1 person and you are buying then a tent is a better option for the most part.

EDIT - Sorry didn't see you posted a weight max limit but 250 is on the upper end for the ave BWCA tripper.

Starting over... we have a number of posters that are saying that they are saving weight by switching to a hammock. I've read many, many posts on this board about people who do not use one person tents (like the "Big Agnes Fly Creek 1 tent, complete with rain fly, stakes and guy lines, 2 lb 3oz") because they are too small. To them, a listed two person tent is actually a one person tent, a listed three person tent is actually a two person tent, and so on. How many of you that have switched to a hammock used an actual one person tent before switching?
I believe that this is why they are saying that they are saving weight and bulk. I have a Tarptent Virga that has a floor and netting. It has more room than the Fly Creek 1 tent, and weighs only 18 oz., but would it be fair to use that in a comparison when only about three people on this board would ever use a Virga as a tent?
I'm just saying that yes, you can get the weights the same buy choosing a light enough tent, as long as you are comparing tents that most would use otherwise. You or I would use these listed shelters, but I think that most would not.

I'm not sure I would compare a 1 person tent with a hammock in terms of functionality and comfort. My buddy has an REI 2 man tent that is pretty small. I slept in there one night and we were too cramped. We had no room to shelter gear and even with him alone in there he could not comfortably store his pack in there. He would store his pack under my hammock tarp or in my lean. I think a hammock is more akin to a two person tent than it is to a one person tent (or a bivy sack).

quote PortageKeeper: "Starting over... we have a number of posters that are saying that they are saving weight by switching to a hammock. I've read many, many posts on this board about people who do not use one person tents (like the "Big Agnes Fly Creek 1 tent, complete with rain fly, stakes and guy lines, 2 lb 3oz") because they are too small. To them, a listed two person tent is actually a one person tent, a listed three person tent is actually a two person tent, and so on. How many of you that have switched to a hammock used an actual one person tent before switching?
I believe that this is why they are saying that they are saving weight and bulk. I have a Tarptent Virga that has a floor and netting. It has more room than the Fly Creek 1 tent, and weighs only 18 oz., but would it be fair to use that in a comparison when only about three people on this board would ever use a Virga as a tent?
I'm just saying that yes, you can get the weights the same buy choosing a light enough tent, as long as you are comparing tents that most would use otherwise. You or I would use these listed shelters, but I think that most would not."

I understand what you are saying and you are right, I personally would not use a tent such as a Fly Creek 1, because I’m a big guy, 6’ 1” 260lbs, and I could never use your Hammock either because its only rated for 200. I only listed it because people are listing minimalist hammocks when in reality the ones they ACTULLY own and use (not all but most) are in the 3.5-5lb range with tarp and fixins.


If someone is going to throw out a “4.3oz Cuben fiber” hammock when everyone uses double layer Blackbirds in the 25-40 oz range well hells bells two can play that game, only the Fly Creek is in stock at just about any REI on the floor, far from exotic, and Cuben fiber hammock is available at what store? I wont even start listing single wall Cuben shelters, it would appear the case can be made without leaving the local big box outdoor store.


Copper Spur 2 is a very spacious one person tent, same with some of the MSR carbon units and Tarp Tents, plenty large for just about any solo man/woman, sure they are higher end tents but so are most of the hammock/tarp setups, you can’t really expect someone to accept your comparison of a 15 year old tent to current hammock setups, come on Joel, that’s just not fair, what’s next, comparing an Eddie Bauer 3 room tent from Target to a Cuben hammock with no fly and a 125lb rating? Come on, I like wool, just not pulled over my eyes. :)


Sure people can drop weight switching, but that all depends on what they are coming from, your 3.5lb 20 sqft glorified bivy just isn’t current anymore, not when you can get a 32 sqft Silnylon free standing Copper Spur for the same weight. If it’s going to be a fair comparison it’s got to be starting from scratch today, no comparing 20 year old 3man tents to modern single man hammocks.

Like the original post said, are hammocks really lighter compared to TODAYS tents, not yesterday’s tents. I got a knit yard hammock in the garage somewhere, damn thing weighs 15-20lbs, I’m not going to go claim I dropped 17lbs switching from “my hammock” to a tent, that would be silly.


I tried to post an honest and fair set up, if I was going to hang I’d likely go with a Blackbird/Superfly setup as I’ve heard they are very comfortable, I’m a big guy so I would need a double 1.1 min, and I’ve heard the lay of the double 1.7 is better so I may even splurge for that, either way I’m going to be real close to 4 lbs if not a bit more, that’s with no sock and no under-quilt.


At this point I’m slightly ahead of the game, because my Copper Spur+footprint and Exped DM 7 (large size) is 5lbs 4oz combined. But this setup will work for me 6 months out of the year without modification, adding an under quilt will instantly make the hammock just as heavy and adding a sock will make it heavier. Sure there are lighter tents, sure there are lighter hammocks, but those are two proven comfortable and spacious setups that are of similar price point. So it appears we are at a draw, and thus it can not be said universally that you will drop weight with a hammock.

quote jeroldharter: "I'm not sure I would compare a 1 person tent with a hammock in terms of functionality and comfort. My buddy has an REI 2 man tent that is pretty small. I slept in there one night and we were too cramped. We had no room to shelter gear and even with him alone in there he could not comfortably store his pack in there. He would store his pack under my hammock tarp or in my lean. I think a hammock is more akin to a two person tent than it is to a one person tent (or a bivy sack)."

I know exactly how you feel, and like anything,not all tents are created equal, but a 5oz Hammock is going to be a far cry from a 37oz double 1.7 Blackbird, I guess it’s up to us making these comparison to try and keep it as close to apple to apples, hard to do considering they are completely different but at the time I think we all know when compromises are being made, front entry sarcophagus style hobbit tents are no fun, as such tarpless underquiltless hammocks in the 5oz range would be no fun for a big guy trying to trip in early May and October.

Here is my setup:

WBBB 1.1 Double layer (supports 275 lbs) - 25.5 oz with suspension
OES Mccat Deluxe 12.9

So I am at 3.5 pounds.

I am not sure why you keep referencing Superfly which is more of a winter tarp that has doors. Its a great tarp but bigger than I would bring to the BWCA in Summer.

I also have an WB Edge tarp which is 10 oz but I prefer the Mccat.

If you really want a true comparison you need to set some guidelines such as total cost under $300, weight maximum 250, time of year, footprint for tent? etc

If you have one person camping I think it would be pretty close to a wash between hammocks and tents. If 2 people then tents win hands down.

This is just my opinion so take it as you want. In the end its really a decision about how much weight you are willing to carry vs comfort you need.

You are correct. I will concede that there is no weight saving benefit to using a hammock instead of a tent. Therefore, we have to make our choice based on other criteria.

Thanks for the entertaining thread, especially this last burst of today. I just returned from the doctor with some unhappy results and needed a good chuckle.

Ragged, your last post was seriously f'ing funny! Are you sure we can't compare a 3 room target tent to a BA copper spur?!?

I'm willing to concede that tents are lighter than hammocks if you agree hammocks are lighter than tents. Case by case basis.

That said, I use my 1.7 dbl bird about two weeks in May and June. Any other time I'm willing to let you try it out if your so inclined.

Maybe we can get you out of the tents:)

ragged I don't know if my set up is that much lighter then my tent, but I can set it up in about 2 minutes, and the comfort level is unmatched compared to my tents. I have a blackbird 1.7 and a clark jungle hammock, the blackbird is the quicker set-up and more comfortable. another plus is I never have to put my hammock away wet because I pack it under my tarp if it's raining, so then just the tarp is put away wet.

My system is used for sleeping, cooking-dining tarp and chair. My system consists of a tarp (superfly)(1LB 8.1 oz), hammock(2LB 14.1 oz), sleeping bag(1LB 12.3 oz), 6 stakes(3.6 oz) and under quilt(1LB 4.8 oz). The weight includes suspension + stuff Sacks and is 7LB 10.9 oz. It takes me as long to set up as to set up most tents.
MagicPaddler

I looked up the weight of my hammock vs tent when I first started to use my hammock to sleep in. I saved about two pounds switching to a hammock. More important is I saved space.

I understand your point. But keep in mind that the HH Backpacker Asym has been around nearly as long as my Lighteryear. So ultimately I was comparing TWO vintage shelters to each other.
I don't really feel that the hammock has any more room than my listed tent. Sure it has more cubic feet of space, but try and use all that space to your advantage. It just doesn't work that way. In those regards, either one is a bivy.
Anyway, I overlooked the fact that you were asking for comparisons of 'TODAY'S' shelters. Yes, today's tents are much lighter, and CAN compare, especially when any tent will take any weight person (you are laying on the ground after all), and any hammock will gain weight when it has to support heavier people (of course once you are in the hammock, you actually feel weightless. Just had to throw that in there since no one has spoken of the added comfort that a hammock provides :)). Either shelter will gain weight to accommodate a taller person.
It may have taken all day, but I think you got your point across. From now on, when people refer to their hammock, they should refer to it as "my hammock that doesn't weigh any less than a tent" :) :) :)
Goodnight.

quote Savage Voyageur: "I looked up the weight of my hammock vs tent when I first started to use my hammock to sleep in. I saved about two pounds switching to a hammock. More important is I saved space."

Exactly. With a hammock setup there's no need for a kitchen tarp, no poles, and no bulky pad (if you use a down underquilt). The bulk savings in your pack is substantial. My conclusion is that the weight difference is negligible but the bulk space savings heavily favors the hammockers.

turtles...i like `em.

Ragged, seems you are in most cases correct that a comparable complete hammock system will come in about the same or slightly more weight than a complete tent system. The difference seems to come in under five pounds and in most less than two pounds.

So I will give you the original post win, hammocks are not lighter. I ask that you give us hangers the win on comfort and I would say in many cases easier set up, smaller packing space is needed, and perhaps in other benefits as well.

My system is a double hammock bliss weight limit 350# and weighs 22 oz. Cost at Campmoor is $54.99. Bug cocoon is 17 oz and $49.99. Noah tarp 12x12 is 33 oz $59.99. Weight total 4 lb 6 oz. Other items optional and user specific and I suspect trade off tent to hammock.

If I were backpacking and carried the load all day I might be more concerned about a few ounces, but in the BWCA/Q comfort is an issue of more importance.

You are missing some major items. I use a Hennessy Explorer Deluxe. when you are in a tent, you also need an air mattress and sleeping bag. I use a very light down filled under quilt that weighs much less then an air mattress or self inflating pad. Most hammockers use a lightweight top quilt, not a sleeping bag.

Have to carry the anlogy forward with all the gear involved. the biggest asset with the hammock is I don't take the self inflating pad and tent. Just a hammock that folds into a very small bag, an underquilt and the top quilt.

I wouldn't say that hammocks as a general rule are lighter than tents, but I believe that it is possible to go lighter with a hammock and retain a much higher level of comfort than going lighter with a tent.

My summer hammock rig is a good example.

I can trip with just my ENO Double w/custom susp and my tarp/poncho combo if I really want to go light in the summer months. Considering that the poncho pulls double duty as raingear, you could consider just the weight of the hammock, but for this purpose we could include it in the weight and add a couple stakes and some cord. This makes my ultralight hammock rig weigh in at about 1lb 11 oz (no need for a pad/underquilt during the summer months). I've used this setup and not felt like I'm missing much in the way of comfort (provided I have my bug net for my face). I stay dry and sleep like a baby and my back feels great in the morning all thanks to less than 2 lbs of gear.

I doubt you'd find a tent in that weight range (excluding some of the minimalist type cuben fiber shelters) so to compare you'd likely be looking at just a tarp, rigging, stakes, and maybe a groundsheet. No pad, no bug screen, no walls.
I'd say the difference in comfort is obvious, I'd much rather take the hammock.

I will grant that this is comparing the most minimalist variations of the two shelter styles which very few other people on this board would consider acceptable. I think I would support the statement that hammock gear is capable of being much lighter than the lightest acceptable tent option.

Not saying there's anything wrong with tent camping, I still often tent camp depending on the experience level of the people I'm tripping with and have no complaints. I just prefer the hammock for ultralight tripping.

quote markaroberts: "You are missing some major items. I use a Hennessy Explorer Deluxe. when you are in a tent, you also need an air mattress and sleeping bag."

thats been covered here.

Hennessy Hammock with a DIY silnylon tarp 2.5 lbs. this has worked for me over the past 15 years. I have also been known to use just a silnylon tarp on occasion at 15 oz. which is imo the simplest set up.

quote Heywoodja: "Here is my setup:
WBBB 1.1 Double layer (supports 275 lbs) - 25.5 oz with suspension
OES Mccat Deluxe 12.9
So I am at 3.5 pounds.
I am not sure why you keep referencing Superfly which is more of a winter tarp that has doors. Its a great tarp but bigger than I would bring to the BWCA in Summer.
I also have an WB Edge tarp which is 10 oz but I prefer the Mccat.
If you really want a true comparison you need to set some guidelines such as total cost under $300, weight maximum 250, time of year, footprint for tent? etc
If you have one person camping I think it would be pretty close to a wash between hammocks and tents. If 2 people then tents win hands down.
This is just my opinion so take it as you want. In the end its really a decision about how much weight you are willing to carry vs comfort you need."

I only mention Superfly because many people I know have that unit and based on their recommendations I'd likely go that route, I do most of my trips in the Spring/Fall, as do many here, so it seemed like a good 3 season choice.

I’m trying to stay away from any other comparisons at this point, this thread is only about weight, the threads about packability and price will come later, I assure you :) Can we say Bearpaw?

quote Unas10: "You are correct. I will concede that there is no weight saving benefit to using a hammock instead of a tent. Therefore, we have to make our choice based on other criteria.


Thanks for the entertaining thread, especially this last burst of today. I just returned from the doctor with some unhappy results and needed a good chuckle."

That is exactly what I was thinking, there is no weight saving advantage, there may very well be personal preferences to mean more to some than anything, I’m simply trying to dispel the notion that hammocks are generally lighter.
On a more serious note, hope the bad news isn’t too bad, ?

quote RainGearRight: "Ragged, your last post was seriously f'ing funny! Are you sure we can't compare a 3 room target tent to a BA copper spur?!?


I'm willing to concede that tents are lighter than hammocks if you agree hammocks are lighter than tents. Case by case basis.


That said, I use my 1.7 dbl bird about two weeks in May and June. Any other time I'm willing to let you try it out if your so inclined.


Maybe we can get you out of the tents:)"

I really don't think one is lighter than the other, I’m not saying tents are lighter, I’m saying tents are not heavier. I think if you really play around with the options and whatnot you come away thinking it’s a complete wash, if you are a tiny little hobbit man then you may be able to use a really light hammock, but on the same side you might be able to fit comfortably in a Platinum Fly Creek 1! It just seemed to me that every time I ran the numbers it ended up being really close, if you are summer only and of smaller stature you may be able to shave a lb or 2, if you do 10-20 degree nights the setups are going to be a wash.

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on it, seems like a great rig to go with!

quote Savage Voyageur: "I looked up the weight of my hammock vs tent when I first started to use my hammock to sleep in. I saved about two pounds switching to a hammock. More important is I saved space."

No offense Gary, but that doesn’t really mean a whole lot, that’s a completely anecdotal observation. Depending on what you had and when you made the switch that could mean little to nothing.
Right now if a person was starting from scratch they could go hammock or tent route, and for roughly the same amount of money a 3 season setup in both styles would weigh about the same.

quote PortageKeeper: "I understand your point. But keep in mind that the HH Backpacker Asym has been around nearly as long as my Lighteryear. So ultimately I was comparing TWO vintage shelters to each other.
I don't really feel that the hammock has any more room than my listed tent. Sure it has more cubic feet of space, but try and use all that space to your advantage. It just doesn't work that way. In those regards, either one is a bivy.
Anyway, I overlooked the fact that you were asking for comparisons of 'TODAY'S' shelters. Yes, today's tents are much lighter, and CAN compare, especially when any tent will take any weight person (you are laying on the ground after all), and any hammock will gain weight when it has to support heavier people (of course once you are in the hammock, you actually feel weightless. Just had to throw that in there since no one has spoken of the added comfort that a hammock provides :)). Either shelter will gain weight to accommodate a taller person.
It may have taken all day, but I think you got your point across. From now on, when people refer to their hammock, they should refer to it as "my hammock that doesn't weigh any less than a tent" :) :) :)
Goodnight. "

LOVE IT! I knew you would see what I’m saying… but then again, maybe you are just giving up lol

quote TomT: "


Exactly. With a hammock setup there's no need for a kitchen tarp, no poles, and no bulky pad (if you use a down underquilt). The bulk savings in your pack is substantial. My conclusion is that the weight difference is negligible but the bulk space savings heavily favors the hammockers.


"

No, not really, I’ve passed by PLENTY of sites with 2 or 3 hangers, they almost ALWAYS have a full blown tarp up, I can’t imagine 3 guys huddled under someone’s hammock tarp up in the woods. If solo maybe there is a point there, but you can always pitch a tent rainfly like a tarp, most flys are undone with 4 quick release clips, but I digress, it is easier and more practical to make a hammock tarp pull double duty that it is to make a tent rain fly, I just don’t think it’s that common, most people who want to cook under a tarp do so near the main grate area which is likely not where your hammock will be set up for sleeping, if all one is doing is boil and dump meals with a canister stove then a tent vestibule works just fine for that.
I’m trying to stay on topic and only take up points that have to do with weight, as stated above, we will address the bulky argument in a separate thread :)

quote kanoes: "turtles...i like `em."

Damn it Jan, so do I : )

quote bhouse46: "Ragged, seems you are in most cases correct that a comparable complete hammock system will come in about the same or slightly more weight than a complete tent system. The difference seems to come in under five pounds and in most less than two pounds.


So I will give you the original post win, hammocks are not lighter. I ask that you give us hangers the win on comfort and I would say in many cases easier set up, smaller packing space is needed, and perhaps in other benefits as well.


My system is a double hammock bliss weight limit 350# and weighs 22 oz. Cost at Campmoor is $54.99. Bug cocoon is 17 oz and $49.99. Noah tarp 12x12 is 33 oz $59.99. Weight total 4 lb 6 oz. Other items optional and user specific and I suspect trade off tent to hammock.


If I were backpacking and carried the load all day I might be more concerned about a few ounces, but in the BWCA/Q comfort is an issue of more importance. "

Another one coming around! I would love to comment on the comfort part but the damn diarrhea mouthed OP is a tyrant for keeping this thread on topic, weight only, that’s all we can discuss here, his rules not mine……errrr wait……. ?

For the record that does seem like a reasonably priced rig, nice job.
Also for the record I honestly don’t care about the weight, wasn’t really trying to debate what’s worth bringing, if bringing a couple extra pounds makes you happy I’m all for it, I bring fishfinders, coolers and even large tents on occasion, didn’t want to get into the “it might be a lb more but it’s totally worth it” debate, that is always personal preference call.

quote markaroberts: "You are missing some major items. I use a Hennessy Explorer Deluxe. when you are in a tent, you also need an air mattress and sleeping bag. I use a very light down filled under quilt that weighs much less then an air mattress or self inflating pad. Most hammockers use a lightweight top quilt, not a sleeping bag.


Have to carry the anlogy forward with all the gear involved. the biggest asset with the hammock is I don't take the self inflating pad and tent. Just a hammock that folds into a very small bag, an underquilt and the top quilt."

Like Kanoes said, this has already been covered, top quilt vs sleeping bag is basically a wash, and I know a few people that do in fact use top quilts in their tents, they are sound sleeps and don’t move much, as for underquilts its basically a wash as well ,there are lightweight insulated pads that are comparable in weight to an underquilt, looks at the weights listed for most full length 0-20 degree underquilts, they are going to be right there with a lightweight insulted pad (not self inflating). Furthermore to get to the comfort of a warm tent environment you should really have to include a sock of some sort, more weight, more cost.

I have already said, for those two months out of the year where you don’t need an underquilt the weight advantage falls in favor of the hammock, but the tripping season is 6 months and 2 of those will absolutely require an UQ and the other 2 will be a toss up, so tied again.

quote keth0601: "I wouldn't say that hammocks as a general rule are lighter than tents, but I believe that it is possible to go lighter with a hammock and retain a much higher level of comfort than going lighter with a tent.


My summer hammock rig is a good example.


I can trip with just my ENO Double w/custom susp and my tarp/poncho combo if I really want to go light in the summer months. Considering that the poncho pulls double duty as raingear, you could consider just the weight of the hammock, but for this purpose we could include it in the weight and add a couple stakes and some cord. This makes my ultralight hammock rig weigh in at about 1lb 11 oz (no need for a pad/underquilt during the summer months). I've used this setup and not felt like I'm missing much in the way of comfort (provided I have my bug net for my face). I stay dry and sleep like a baby and my back feels great in the morning all thanks to less than 2 lbs of gear.


I doubt you'd find a tent in that weight range (excluding some of the minimalist type cuben fiber shelters) so to compare you'd likely be looking at just a tarp, rigging, stakes, and maybe a groundsheet. No pad, no bug screen, no walls.
I'd say the difference in comfort is obvious, I'd much rather take the hammock.


I will grant that this is comparing the most minimalist variations of the two shelter styles which very few other people on this board would consider acceptable. I think I would support the statement that hammock gear is capable of being much lighter than the lightest acceptable tent option.


Not saying there's anything wrong with tent camping, I still often tent camp depending on the experience level of the people I'm tripping with and have no complaints. I just prefer the hammock for ultralight tripping."

I don’t know, I’m not keen on this combining of gear to get a weight savings, using a hammock as a chair when the fire is 50 yards away doesn’t work for me, wearing a tarp as a poncho seems like a huge compromise, I can’t help but think what a royal pain in the ass a loose fitting tarp poncho would be while trying to climb around downed trees and overgrown trails, not to mention if I’m counting on this tarp to keep my down sleeping bag/ top quilt dry at night the last thing I want is to rip it to shreds, the fabric used on lightweight tarp is no match for a properly designed technical rain shell, this is really a stretch in my book.
Just a head net? If it’s the hot part of the summer are you really going to want to be completely clothed? Including hands? Are mosquito proof gloves included in this rigs weight?
If I happen to be camping and its 80+ with humidity all I can say is don’t come peeking in my tent, you might get a big or little surprise (depending on my mood), I’ll likely be sprawled out uncovered and damn near naked!

If you have have to wear your tarp to come in under weight then my friend, I think this argument is over :)

I’m not ignorant to the ultra lite ethos, I know there are 4 oz cuben tarp ponchos, but through hiking on wide open blazed trails is a far cry from busting through a portage for the first time in the spring, hell one good storm and some of those less traveled portages can turn into an exercise in bush whacking, right?

Like I’ve said above, if you are able to drop the under quilt from the setup hammocks are going to win out, we don’t need to beat the dead horse on that point. But that’s 2, maybe 3 months, once that underquilt and sock are in play things change fast.

quote florida: "Hennessy Hammock with a DIY silnylon tarp 2.5 lbs. this has worked for me over the past 15 years. I have also been known to use just a silnylon tarp on occasion at 15 oz. which is imo the simplest set up."

That setup won’t be much fun if it gets down to 15 degree like it does in April and May and late September and October, toss a full length underquilt in there and BAM right back into tent weight territory.

Maybe we need a formula. Wt/comfort+space+packing size+ease(and time requred) to setup+ ...

We can do a head to head match but it would be very hard to measure most of those things, this is only about weight, the only other thing that could be factually proven is packed size, but that’s another topic :)

Well done, Ragged. I could care less about the outcome, but reading your well-constructed 275-line analysis made me chuckle. "If you have have to wear your tarp..." :)

I'm chiming in late, but I have to agree with Ragged's assessment. I do a lot of backpacking and use both hammock and tent, depending on where I go. My tent (Tarptent Contrail) weighs about a pound and a half. My hammock (Blackbird) weighs about 2 pounds. But I have to bring a tarp with the hammock, and a pad with the tent. Up above treeline, tent. On hilly terrain below treeline, hammock. Other places, depends on my mood. Weight and bulk are pretty comparable. It all depends on your particular gear. I love the hammock best for sleeping in, but I'm very comfortable on my neoair xtherm as well. With my particular gear, I'm a touch lighter going with the tent. If I got a different tarp (cuben fiber?), I'd possibly be lighter with a hammock.

Short version - you can probably find different combinations of gear that make either one lighter weight if the weight is the prime concern. One can definitely not assume that using a hammock means a lighter pack. And speed-wise, I can set either up in just a few minutes. Not sure that 60 seconds one way or the other makes that much difference.

Personally I like having both options. :-)

quote schweady: "I could care less about the outcome, "

Wait, there is going to be an outcome? Hallelujah!

quote Ragged: "

quote schweady: "I could care less about the outcome, "

Wait, there is going to be an outcome? Hallelujah!
"

Agreed.
Now try and convince the rest of world that using an 'innie' is a complete waste of time! Just figured... as long as you've gotten everyone riled up... Pine cones, pine cones, pine cones!

I might have missed it in this long tread but I did not see anybody posting weights on ground cloth (under the tent) or plastic in the tent.(I always put a heavy mil plastic inside to be safe) So for me my tent set up is going to be heaver than my soon to be purchased Clark. I have not actually switched yet but from all my research it will be lighter than my tent set up. Also I don't remember reading anything on the fact that a person can eliminate your regular kitchen tarp since you can hang out under the tarp you use for your hang. I cant hang out (comfortably) under my tent rain fly. Again I will say that I have not switched to hang yet but my opinion is based on research. Oh and I will also eliminate the hammock I take for napping/lounging. Maybe my folding chair as well since the hammock will serve as a chair and lounging/napping that my tent does not and cannot provide.
Happy valentines day everybody!!!!

Twston under the 'rules of engagement' outlined in the OP I don't think we can include the weight of the chair you don't need nor the kitchen tarp. These items, among others, are valid gear that could be left behind when you 'hang' but as a long time hanger I do bring these along......sometimes.

You do bring up an excellent point though about tent-ers including the weight of their footprints and floor savers.

If I captured all the valid tent gear whose weight should be included in the comparison to hammocks they include:

Tent, rainfly, footprint, floor saver, poles, stakes, rope with hardware, sleeping pad and tarp. Did I miss anything?

Are there hammock setups whose combined weight is close to or equal to some ultra-light tent setups? Absolutely. This thread is full of such examples.

I would suggest that the average tent user doesn't have or use the smallest, lightest tent, even for solo use. My solo tent is called a 3 man but is marginal for 2 people IMO.

I think the average hammock setup used is lighter than the average tent setup.

quote twston: "I might have missed it in this long tread but I did not see anybody posting weights on ground cloth (under the tent) or plastic in the tent.(I always put a heavy mil plastic inside to be safe) So for me my tent set up is going to be heaver than my soon to be purchased Clark. I have not actually switched yet but from all my research it will be lighter than my tent set up. Also I don't remember reading anything on the fact that a person can eliminate your regular kitchen tarp since you can hang out under the tarp you use for your hang. I cant hang out (comfortably) under my tent rain fly. Again I will say that I have not switched to hang yet but my opinion is based on research. Oh and I will also eliminate the hammock I take for napping/lounging. Maybe my folding chair as well since the hammock will serve as a chair and lounging/napping that my tent does not and cannot provide.
Happy valentines day everybody!!!!


"

I think all those things have been brought up and addressed.

What I can tell you is that I have a hennessy Explorer Deluxe with all options and an underquilt. I also have a Clark Jungle Hammock with all options and underquilt. And I have a Eureka Apex II solo tent (I know it says two people but that must mean Canadians.

the Hennessy system and/or the Clark system all goes in two small bags wtih cinch straps that are about the size of a football. (One bag for hammock/fly/straps/lines/stakes. One bag for underquilt). My Eureka Apex is all in one bag. the eureka is significantly heavier then either hammock system.

Also, I paddle a Necky Looksha IV touring kayak much of the time and size/bulk is as important as weight. The two kayak bags take up much less space then the one larger Apex bag.

I am assuming both tent or hammock would use the same sleeping bag. when you pack/add the self inflating mats I use for the tent, there is no comparison. the two hammock systems are much ligher and pack much smaller.

I realize from this thread you will argue these points (not really sure why). I am just saying that based on someone's experience with two quality hammock systems vs what I feel is a light solo tent. . .the hammocks are the clear favorite in weight/bulk/comfort.

quote Benutzer: "I do a lot of backpacking and use both hammock and tent, depending on where I go. My tent (Tarptent Contrail) weighs about a pound and a half. My hammock (Blackbird) weighs about 2 pounds.

Personally I like having both options. :-)"

+1 - I also like the TarpTent Contrail - when I buy a solo set up it will be this one or similar. Right now I just use a tarp and ground cloth as most of my hikes are in Spring or Fall when bugs are not an issue.

But as I stated in my post above - I like my tents and I like my hammock. I'm happy to have both.

I went from a Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2 to a Warbonnet 1.1 for solo camping. The hammock setup weighs in a little less, depending on what tarp I'm using. The SL2 is fragile enough that I do bring a footprint. Stakes are less important on the hammock, so I'll make them in the field to secure the tarp. For both, I use a neoair, so no underquilt for Spring-Fall trips. I could have gotten a lighter hammock, but like the way the dual layer holds my mattress in place. Using the enormous superfly tarp, the ounces are pretty close. Need to get sewing before Memorial weekend. (Course, with the cold weather/snow we got today, maybe the 4 season tarp is just the thing).

Anyhow, what I discovered is the hammock packs down much smaller. I was able to size my pack down to my smallest 60l pack - which took another two pounds off of my carry weight vs the larger packs I had to use with the Seedhouse. YMMV

Ninja edit: Since I'm home, I checked. Costs were about the same for both setups.

Seedhouse SL2, key stakes, bag, and a footprint: 61 oz
* BB 1.1 double, superfly, cords, and bag: 45 oz

* NeoAir, WM SummerLite (32F): 33 oz
NeoAir, Marmot Helium (15F): 48 oz

Packs
* GG Crown VC: 34 oz
GG Duluth : 61 oz
Osprey Atmos 65: 57 oz

Without any exotic material, I can get a very comfortable 7 lbs for my big three.

(I often packed a 'day' hammock when I brought the tent. Those ounces went away too - but that is not really fair for this comparison.)

quote markaroberts: "What I can tell you is that I have a hennessy Explorer Deluxe with all options and an underquilt. I also have a Clark Jungle Hammock with all options and underquilt. And I have a Eureka Apex II solo tent (I know it says two people but that must mean Canadians.


the Hennessy system and/or the Clark system all goes in two small bags wtih cinch straps that are about the size of a football. (One bag for hammock/fly/straps/lines/stakes. One bag for underquilt). My Eureka Apex is all in one bag. the eureka is significantly heavier then either hammock system.


Also, I paddle a Necky Looksha IV touring kayak much of the time and size/bulk is as important as weight. The two kayak bags take up much less space then the one larger Apex bag.


I am assuming both tent or hammock would use the same sleeping bag. when you pack/add the self inflating mats I use for the tent, there is no comparison. the two hammock systems are much ligher and pack much smaller.


I realize from this thread you will argue these points (not really sure why). I am just saying that based on someone's experience with two quality hammock systems vs what I feel is a light solo tent. . .the hammocks are the clear favorite in weight/bulk/comfort."

Well I think you have a future in fortune telling! As you predicted I’m here to argue! (all in good fun of course)

A Eureka Apex is far from a current tent, nice tent I’m sure, but it’s rather close to 5lbs and with 20sqft of floor that compounds the issue, the Copper Spur 2 is over 30% larger and over a pound lighter. As for size, minus the small pole set a copper spur and footprint will fit in a small sack about the size of a football, well more like something a little larger than a grapefruit and smaller than a mini basketball

Think about it this way, what are hammocks made of? Sil Nylon and netting, what are tents made of? Sil nylon and netting, what are tarps made of? Sil nylon, what are tent rain flys made of? Sil nylon. So basically the two items are (often) made of the exact same materials so when it comes to weight and compressibility logic would say whichever has more material will weigh more and compress less. Well I don’t think there is a huge difference in the two, its seems to be close enough that it could really go either way, I just don’t think you can say one is lighter than the other.

Spread sheet please!
Interesting thread - I want to see the spreadsheet with comparisons. The conversation is not as easy to follow and details are not always consistent from one post to another or with the manufacturer.

", I just don’t think you can say one is lighter than the other."

Sure I can! I have four hammocks. A Hennessy explorer deluxe, a Clarke jungle hammock, and two Grand Trunks. The Hennessy takes up the most room in the bag it comes in, but still must smaller then any tent bag I have seen (if you include tent poles).

I am assuming from your posts, you have not actually used either and you are operating on the theoretical. Many of us have several of both. As a minimalist kayaker I can tell you that the Clark Hammock (which comes in a bag not much larger then my hand which includes hammock, rainfly and mosquito netting), coupled with the underquilt (down, and compresses down to 6 inch by 8 inch).

When I was tenting I kept upgrading the self inflating pads to better, more comforable ones. The one I have now is a top of the line Cabellas pad. . .two inch thick. but heavy and takes a lot of room to pack.

If weight is all you are looking at, (which seems pointless to me as you will be carrying it in a kayak or canoe), then the differences may seem small. But bulk and room taken in the bulkheads of a kayak, the hammock and related gear wins hands down.

Go on a trip with a hammock and underquilt, then with the tent of your choice,pad, and sleeping bag. THEN let us know what you think. Its all theory at this point if you havent

quote markaroberts: "", I just don’t think you can say one is lighter than the other."


Sure I can! I have four hammocks. A Hennessy explorer deluxe, a Clarke jungle hammock, and two Grand Trunks. The Hennessy takes up the most room in the bag it comes in, but still must smaller then any tent bag I have seen (if you include tent poles).


I am assuming from your posts, you have not actually used either and you are operating on the theoretical. Many of us have several of both. As a minimalist kayaker I can tell you that the Clark Hammock (which comes in a bag not much larger then my hand which includes hammock, rainfly and mosquito netting), coupled with the underquilt (down, and compresses down to 6 inch by 8 inch).


When I was tenting I kept upgrading the self inflating pads to better, more comforable ones. The one I have now is a top of the line Cabellas pad. . .two inch thick. but heavy and takes a lot of room to pack.


If weight is all you are looking at, (which seems pointless to me as you will be carrying it in a kayak or canoe), then the differences may seem small. But bulk and room taken in the bulkheads of a kayak, the hammock and related gear wins hands down.


Go on a trip with a hammock and underquilt, then with the tent of your choice,pad, and sleeping bag. THEN let us know what you think. Its all theory at this point if you havent
"

Mark, comparing current $200-500 hammock rigs to your $90 discontinued tent isn’t apples to apples, of course in that antidotal comparison it’s going to win, same with the above posters that did the exact same (compare some old school heavy tent to a modern sil-nylon hammock)

Find a modern sil-nylon tent and do the comparison, it’s not “theory” its fact, we KNOW what these hammocks weigh and we KNOW what these tents weight, how is that “theory” ?


Lightweight modern tent + quality pad is about the same weight as a full blown hammock rig with an under quilt. Are their variables? Sure! But in general that seems to be the case, there has already been numerous hammockers above that have said under quilts and top quilts are basically a wash when compared to a good pad and sleeping bag, emphasis on GOOD (don’t go comparing a $50 walmart sleeping bag to a $300 down underquilt) . Many hammockers still use a pad and regular sleeping bag anyways. I have already said numerous times above that if we are talking mid summer rigs then yes a hammock will come out on top almost every time, a good tent and pad is still going to be 4-5 lbs, with most hammock set ups in the 3.5 lb range this is a decisive win, but not so when it comes to 3 season use.

The whole “talk to me when you” argument is BS, I could turn it around on you and say talk to me when you trip with a Copper Spur 1 or 2, or a Flycreek, Nemo Obi or any of the kick but tarp tent options, just as I have never tripped with a hammock you have never tripped with a high quality lightweight tent.

Its funny you bring up the kayak thing, this summer I sold a Nemo OBI 2 tent to a guy that was planning on kayaking around lake superior, he specifically wanted the tent because many other yakers had recommended it to him based on how easy it packed in the cargo areas, so clearly at least some of your brethren think tents pack just fine.

FYI the OBI comes broken out in two separate units, a small pole set and a grapefruit sized compression sack that holds the soft parts of the tent.

Setting aside my tent. . .the Clark hammock comes in about the same size bag as the tent in your picture. That includes all guy wires, rain fly, and mosquito netting and tie down ropes. I use a Nest undequilt that comes about the same size bag as well. I don't know of any self inflating pads that go down that small. I will grant you the sleeping bag is a wash both ways. Our group went to the BWCA the first several years with tents, pads, etc. Once one guy started bringing hammock. . .everyone switched over. The biggest comment was no sleeping pad to haul and no tent poles.

You mentioned set up. I have several hammocks and I use carbiners, rings and tree huggers for setup. We times how long it took to fully secure the hammocks this last year and tie out the rainfly. . .under one minute.

quote markaroberts: " I don't know of any self inflating pads that go down that small. "

I actually don't know anyone personally that is still using self inflating airpads, everyone I know has gone to inflatables, mostly Expeds, my Exped and my Nemo's would both fit just fine in a sack that size.

P.S. Does that Min count finding the trees for all 4 guys?

I like you hammock guys. When the bear comes looking and may be skeptical to approach the tent, you be hanging about mouth level!

If this were a Pacific Coast Trail forum or other hard core hiker site, I could see being a "gram-weenie", but given that most of our gear is carried on our backs for such relatively short distances, I can't see cutting the handle off of the toothbrush, so to speak. If I'm going Maine to Georgia, that's one thing, but even a looong portage is not the end of the world when dealing with grams. That said, a good night sleep can have a meaningful impact on long distance trips. I also believe a good hammock system is more of a multi-tasker, which is huge. I can always go tarp tent, but, quality of life goes to heck quickly under one of those.
The hammock "fiddle factor" can be a deal-breaker for some, and I understand that.
Bottom line? If we all had to agreed, the woods would be empty.

quote Hamm0cker: "If this were a Pacific Coast Trail forum or other hard core hiker site, I could see being a "gram-weenie", but given that most of our gear is carried on our backs for such relatively short distances, I can't see cutting the handle off of the toothbrush, so to speak. If I'm going Maine to Georgia, that's one thing, but even a looong portage is not the end of the world when dealing with grams. That said, a good night sleep can have a meaningful impact on long distance trips. I also believe a good hammock system is more of a multi-tasker, which is huge. I can always go tarp tent, but, quality of life goes to heck quickly under one of those.
The hammock "fiddle factor" can be a deal-breaker for some, and I understand that.
Bottom line? If we all had to agreed, the woods would be empty.
"

This was meant to be strictly about weight, the other merits can be debated in a different thread.

An average hammock setup, not a lightweight setup, is going to be, generally speaking, about the same weight as an average tent setup. Over on hf.net there was a thread where someone measured a bunch of different setups down to the 1/10 gram I think. The result was that hammocks aren't really lighter on average.

My hammock setup for summer comes in around 4 lbs total. Of course, for colder temps it is heavier.
My tent setup using a Copper Spur 3 comes in just about 6.5 lbs. For canoeing that difference is not very significant. But the tent sleeps 2 adults with room to spare. Add in the extra bag and pad and the tent for 2 comes in around 8 lbs, or about 4lbs per person.

If you want to go super UL then a cuben tarp and cut-down pad is probably the lightest setup. That is just physics, plain and simple.

A lot of folks see a weight drop when they move to a hammock because they are going from a 2-3 person sleep system to 1 person. So you will see arguments such as "I lost 2 lbs with the hammock" etc.

And we all know there are people who sleep on a piece of 4mil plastic under a 6x6 cuben tarp. Of course, those folks often report total pack weight, with food and water, of 10 lbs or less. Whatever gets your motor running...

Now if one wants to consider bulk and pack space, a hammock system is likely to pack down smaller than a tent system. I know that is not the OPQ, but it is something many folks consider when packing.

OK - spreadsheet type stuff...


Hammock Forums thread

WaterMonkey's comparison