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AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
03/24/2013 04:19PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
Hi, I'm going to drive quite a ways to look at this Kevlar canoe and was wondering if anyone could ID the model of this canoe and if so what were your impressions. The owners measurements (I can't verify accuracy) are as follows:
Length- 17'9"
Width-(beam)-33"
Depth @ center-13"
Bow & stern just under 17"
Serial # saw0698c0480
I've added photos in case the measurements are not correct.
Thanks for the help.

 
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03/24/2013 05:29PM  
Sounds and looks like a Cruiser. A very nice tandem canoe.

Serial number shows it was manufactured in April 1980.

From the pictures it looks in very good shape.

The skid plate is a bit clunky. That might be covering up some stem damage. Not a deal breaker though.

Make sure it was stored indoors and that there is no UV damage to the hull.

 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
03/24/2013 05:42PM  
Ok great, thanks for the quick response. I'll keep those in mind when I look at it.
 
03/24/2013 06:21PM  
Sawyer 220, also called Sawyer Cruiser. A nice fast tandem with surprising capabilities in waves. Great boat. Looks to be in great shape, no real uv damage. I'd get rid of the skid plates to restore the wonderful lines of the boat.
 
03/25/2013 01:44AM  

quote Banksiana: "Sawyer 220, also called Sawyer Cruiser. A nice fast tandem with surprising capabilities in waves. Great boat."


To the best of my knowledge, the "Classic" Sawyer "Cruiser" @ 17' 9" was never called the "220 Cruiser". You might be confusing the naming moniker with the "222 Cruiser", but that canoe was not available until 1985. The canoe in question, is clearly a 1980, 17' 9" Sawyer "Cruiser", simply known as the "Cruiser". I've owned three of them and have sold several dozen Sawyer "Cruisers" when I worked at "The Pack Shop", and later at "Rutabaga". (I still own a 1985 Expedition Kevlar Cruiser in mint condition.)

The model name of the Sawyer "222 Cruiser" was derived from it's length in inches, (i.e., 18.5' = 222 inches). In 1985, Sawyer also released the "190 Cruiser" @ 15' 10", or 190 inches. Although, the scanned catalog pages below indicate the "190 Cruiser" at 15' 9", later catalogs listed the "190" at 15' 10". (I'm not sure if the listed dimensions below for the "190" Cruiser" was a misprint, or if Sawyer added an inch in the later catalog specifications so that their math came out correctly.)

Nonetheless, if you were to apply the naming designations that Sawyer used for the "222 Cruiser" and the "190 Cruiser", the original "Cruiser" would have been a "213 Cruiser". (That moniker was NEVER applied to the original 17' 9" Cruiser though.)

I must also take exception to the original "Cruiser's" performance in waves. Although it's a fast canoe with great secondary stability and very seaworthy, the sharp entry lines of the 17' 9" "Cruiser" tends to "slice" through large oncoming waves and drop a lot of water in the bow paddler's lap. (This is why I eventually purchased a Wenonah "Odyssey" after several wet rides across Pickerel Lake, Basswood Lake, and "Big Sag", just to name a few.)

The Wenonah "Odyssey", with its deeper bow and flare, tends to ride over waves vs. cutting through the waves like the lower volume, sharp bowed Sawyer "Cruiser". Although the "Cruiser is fast, it tends to slow considerably in shallow water.

The "222 Cruiser" on the other hand, was designed as a big water tripper, was very seaworthy, and handled "big water" quite well. The "222" was designed to compete against other 18.5' tripping canoes at the time, like the Wenonah "Odyssey", "Whitewater X", and the Mad River "TW Special" @ 18' 4.5". (The "222 Cruiser was a Dave Yost design, and compares more closely to Bell's "Northwoods", also a Yost design.) The "classic" Sawyer "Cruiser" was a Lynn Tuttle design.

I've scanned a few pages from Sawyer's 1985 catalog listing the three "Cruiser" models and their dimensions. (I apologize for splitting the pages, but my scanner could not accommodate the catalog spread out in one scan.) I've also included some pics from some earlier Quetico, BWCAW, and Wisconsin River trips.

Hans Solo


 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
03/25/2013 09:17AM  
Wow, you guys are a wealth of knowledge. Other than the bow paddler getting wet (did you feel safe taking this on Basswood in those waves( which is where I'll be going this summer with it). He did mention it felt a bit unstable in stormy conditions. How did it feel mostly unloaded?
 
03/25/2013 06:51PM  

quote AlbinVega: "Wow, you guys are a wealth of knowledge. Other than the bow paddler getting wet (did you feel safe taking this on Basswood in those waves( which is where I'll be going this summer with it). He did mention it felt a bit unstable in stormy conditions. How did it feel mostly unloaded? "


I always felt safe in my Sawyer "Cruiser", regardless of the conditions. The first time I paddled a "Cruiser", I fell in love with it.

The problem with paddling into big waves with the "Cruiser", and its proclivity for cutting through waves vs. riding over them; eventually you'll have a canoe that fills up with water, becomes unstable, and eventually swamps. I've never had that happen with the "Cruiser", but I've come close.

The Wenonah Jensen 17 and Jensen 18, which are also great canoes, were actually more prone to that then the Sawyer "Cruiser". The same could be said for my Sawyer "DY Special", which was my primary solo cruising and tripping canoe from 1981 until about 1988.

To say the "Cruiser" is "unstable", isn't really accurate. It depends on what you're used to paddling. If a person has been paddling Grummans, Colemans, or any other flat bottom canoe, that has a lot of initial stability, but less secondary stability, then a "Cruiser" may seem "unstable". As I've stated in other posts, "stability is relative". What's unstable for one paddler, feels "lively" to another.

I personally prefer a boat with more secondary stability than initial stability. I like a "lively hull", which to some paddlers, is perceived as "unstable".

Hans Solo

 
03/25/2013 06:53PM  
Sorry Hans, my bad. I have a quote sheet from when I bought a Sawyer in the 80's and they listed the 222 and the 220 and I simply filed those numbers in my head- clerk probably just wrote it down wrong. I bought the 222 which is still my all time favorite tandem hull, mine is simply too heavy (all glass, no foam ) for the overland journey. It's become my whitewater tripping boat. I understand that the Cruiser can plunge through waves, especially with a loaded bow, but for a shallow hull it does a good job of deflecting them from angles- feels steadier than my MNII even if the ride might be wet.

The 222 on a rough carry.
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
03/26/2013 10:03AM  
I just wanted to thank all of you for your time in helping me make an informed decision. Ill watch the message boards and try to reciprocate. He happens to be coming to my area so he will deliver it to my house. I'm thinking of giving him extra for delivery, although he said not to worry about it. Sometimes everything just comes together. He threw in a couple paddles and things also. Now I just need to figure out a portage yoke. I think I've seen a previous thread on this I'll search out.
Again, thank you.
 
03/26/2013 01:18PM  

You're entirely Welcome "AlbinVega", but the pleasure was all mine. I enjoyed "talking" Sawyer canoes for awhile, which is something I don't get a chance to do all that often.

I'd be interested to hear your impressions of the canoe after you've had a chance to put some miles on your "Cruiser". I hope you enjoy your Sawyer "Cruiser" as much as I enjoy mine.

Happy Paddling!

Hans Solo
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
06/01/2013 10:52PM  
You guys were correct , it's a sawyer cruiser 17'9".
So I've got four days on the water in this new to me sawyer and to echo what you said HansSolo, my son and I fell in love with it right away. It glides with ease, even when we hit some moderate head wind. I couldn't be more happy with my first canoe purchase.
Banksiana, I did actually shave down and blend in the skid plates and they are much better now. I used some guidance from reading posts here and elsewhere including geofisher on kevlar canoe restoration ( although this one didn't need much). I feel it is a sound canoe and I'm very happy with it so far.
I can't wait to put some more miles on it.
Thanks again everyone.
 
06/02/2013 08:45PM  
Looks beautiful. Love the lines of Sawyer cruising hulls, solo and tandem.
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
06/02/2013 08:53PM  
Banksiana,
Thanks For suggesting doing something about Those skid plates, I'm glad I did so.
 
06/02/2013 09:03PM  

quote Banksiana: "Looks beautiful. Love the lines of Sawyer cruising hulls, solo and tandem."


I completely agree Banksiana!

I'm pleased to hear you like the Cruiser AlbinVega. Nice job restoring a classic!

Hans Solo
 
yellowcanoe
distinguished member(4984)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberpower member
  
06/02/2013 09:14PM  
Thanks Hans Solo for posting the catalog pages. I have a 190.. I used to have a catalog from the year I got it ('89) and remember it being listed at 15'10"..I thought that was where the 190 came from. But I see on your pages..its one inch shorter!

We had several delightful BWCA/Q trips with it. It was always sea kindly. But it got heavier each year..(the Goldenglass layup).
 
pswith5
distinguished member(3687)distinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished memberdistinguished member
  
06/02/2013 09:40PM  
Can I ask what you paid for this pretty boat? Or would you rather not say? I looked at one that was similar in condition. If I remember it was priced at $800.
 
06/02/2013 09:58PM  


quote yellowcanoe: "Thanks Hans Solo for posting the catalog pages. I have a 190.. I used to have a catalog from the year I got it ('89) and remember it being listed at 15'10"..I thought that was where the 190 came from. But I see on your pages..its one inch shorter!
"


Happy to oblige yellowcane. :-)

I cut and pasted the following from my initial, albeit lengthy reply above.

In 1985, Sawyer also released the "190 Cruiser" @ 15' 10", or 190 inches. Although, the scanned catalog pages indicate the "190 Cruiser" at 15' 9", later catalogs listed the "190" at 15' 10". (I'm not sure if the listed dimensions for the "190" Cruiser" was a misprint, or if Sawyer added an inch in the later catalog specifications so that their math came out correctly.)

Hans Solo
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
06/02/2013 10:08PM  
Pswith5
No problem at all. I gave him his full asking price of $450. Most of them I searched for on the Internet were more in the 750-900 range but were probably in better condition. This was the only one I looked at in person. It is an older boat and needed epoxy (I used west systems so that put me back a little )and a small amount of kevlar repaired ( wasn't leaking, but didn't have a quality repair). It was all that was available around here in my price range so I went for it. I think it was a good deal, but I don't know.Now that I've been out in it with my sons quite a bit I would definitely do it again and even pay a lot more. I don't know near as much about canoes as everyone else here, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Have a great day.
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
06/02/2013 10:28PM  
Hansolo,
Yes, thank you for the photos as well, do you remember if you were just carrying that with the bare aluminum tube on your shoulders (which is what Ive been doing so far) or did you rig up some sort of aftermarket portage yoke?
 
06/02/2013 10:37PM  

quote AlbinVega: "Hansolo,
Yes, thank you for the photos as well, do you remember if you were just carrying that with the bare aluminum tube on your shoulders (which is what Ive been doing so far) or did you rig up some sort of aftermarket portage yoke?"


I was using an aluminum clamp-on yoke AlbinVega.

If you look at the picture where I'm portaging my Cruiser, and our friend's Cruiser is sitting upright, you'll notice the type of yoke we were both using at the time. The yoke was essentially two contoured aluminum tubes with padded foam blocks.

Although I haven't seen those yokes for sale in any store for years, I recently saw the same yoke for sale on craigslist, or some other online classified site.

One caveat when using that yoke or any clamp-on yoke with Sawyers, I always had to secure the yoke with more than just the clamps. After attaching the yoke to the gunnels, I'd wrap duct tape or straps around the center thwart and the yoke, (both ends), to keep the yoke from sliding off the gunnels.

The Cruisers in the portage picture were 83's, but they had the more angled gunnels. The 81's like yours, had the more rounded gunnels, which made the clamping yokes even more difficult to secure. My 1981 Sawyer DY Special had the rounded gunnels as well. Unlike Wenonah, Sawyer's gunnels did not have the more pronounced gunnel "lip". So any clamp-on yoke never really secured all that well to Sawyer's gunnels.

I eventually removed the center thwart and installed a fixed laminated wood yoke with pads in my Cruiser, much like the fixed yoke in my Wenonah Odyssey.

Fixed Laminated Yoke with Pads

Hans Solo
 
AlbinVega
member (49)member
  
06/03/2013 07:46AM  
quote HansSolo: "
quote AlbinVega: "Hansolo,
Yes, thank you for the photos as well, do you remember if you were just carrying that with the bare aluminum tube on your shoulders (which is what Ive been doing so far) or did you rig up some sort of aftermarket portage yoke?"


I was using an aluminum clamp-on yoke AlbinVega.

If you look at the picture where I'm portaging my Cruiser, and our friend's Cruiser is sitting upright, you'll notice the type of yoke we were both using at the time. The yoke was essentially two contoured aluminum tubes with padded foam blocks.

Although I haven't seen those yokes for sale in any store for years, I recently saw the same yoke for sale on craigslist, or some other online classified site.

One caveat when using that yoke or any clamp-on yoke with Sawyers, I always had to secure the yoke with more than just the clamps. After attaching the yoke to the gunnels, I'd wrap duct tape or straps around the center thwart and the yoke, (both ends), to keep the yoke from sliding off the gunnels.

The Cruisers in the portage picture were 83's, but they had the more angled gunnels. The 81's like yours, had the more rounded gunnels, which made the clamping yokes even more difficult to secure. My 1981 Sawyer DY Special had the rounded gunnels as well. Unlike Wenonah, Sawyer's gunnels did not have the more pronounced gunnel "lip". So any clamp-on yoke never really secured all that well to Sawyer's gunnels.

I eventually removed the center thwart and installed a fixed laminated wood yoke with pads in my Cruiser, much like the fixed yoke in my Wenonah Odyssey.

Fixed Laminated Yoke with Pads

Hans Solo "


You put a lot of effort into all your responses. I see I'm not the only one who appreciates that. That's a great tip about lashing the ends down. It's one of those things you don't realize until your in the middle of a long portage. I looked at the link and that's probably the way I'll go. If I go fixed I won't have to worry about any more.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.

Bill
 
ZSO
member (17)member
  
06/28/2014 08:18AM  
Hi
I have a friend that is selling his sawyer cruiser. It has Kevlar 49 on the side. He bought brand new back around mid 70's. It's in great condition.
He is willing to sell it to me for a fair value. Question is I am not sure how much it is worth?
Any help would be appreciated.
 
06/28/2014 11:18AM  

(Copy of my reply from another thread)

For what it's worth, a 1984 Expedition Kevlar Sawyer Cruiser recently sold for $850.00 on this site. If the green Sawyer Cruiser is in fact an all Kevlar construction, then maybe $700.00 to $750.00 max. would be fair, provided it's in good condition. (The limiting factor is its age.)

Judging by the pictures it does look in decent shape. But, not being able to closely inspect the interior of the canoe, it's hard to really rate its overall condition. There could be some fabric delamination, or something else affecting the hull's integrity that the pictures don't reveal.

Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't pay more than $700.00 to $750.00 for an almost 40-year old Kevlar canoe.

Just my two cents worth.

Hans Solo
 
Jim McFarlane
Guest Paddler
  
07/20/2018 08:34PM  
I just purchased a Sawyer 18 ft canoe model # SAW 005471277 and was amazed at how much info is accumulated on this thread. Our plans are to pass this canoe along to family and it would be interesting to share as much history as practical. It would also be nice to know the relative value of this canoe. Could someone help me find out?
 
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