Is anyone from western Michigan hunting the BWCA? I think I might want to try again before I get too old.

Dan,

On my bucket list but not for a few years. Most likely gun. No time now. Some past BWJ articles on this.

Its on my list as well. Although I'm having a hard time convincing my hunting buddies to let go of the comfort of the hunting cabin in exchange for camping in early to mid november.

Since 1989! Both bow and rifle. If eating tag or not seeing deer for days on end gets to you don't even bother! It's like anywhere...there's some big ones for those willing to scout hard and put in their time. I gave up years ago trying to put together a hunting camp out there, now I just go by myself. Who knows, maybe they'll find my bones out there someday?!? One thing to keep in mind...most of those BW Journal stories of success are from the area OUTSIDE the BWCA near Ely on private land...if you read carefully very few of the bucks Stu or his clients get are actually from in the BWCA. Lots of "close calls", but very few actual successes. Not to say it couldn't happen or I wouldn't have put in the time up there that I have, just that it doesn't happen "easily".

If you get serious about coming over for a hunt let me know and maybe we can hook up and talk some deer hunting...my favorite subject.

quote wolfie: "is anyone from w.mich.hunting the bwca? ithink I might want to try again before I get too old."

Just curious,have you ever tried hunting the wilderness area in northern Michigan? Always wondered about that area?

thanks for responding. I'd be interested in talking with you sometime.

To find what continues to drive you in a difficult situation, we were there in 2006 in its prime and only saw 4 deer. Of the 4 deer, 3 bucks. I guess my drive to go back is the more familiar, the more success. maybe its just a pipe dream. I am also having trouble finding enthusiasm of others going back.

I think give it a couple of years and if we don't have any bad winters,along the edge of the big fire in the lake one to Isabella area could be interesting. Kawishiwi river area use to have some awesome bucks,my brother found a huge 10 point buck one year that died.
I do a lot of grouse hunting just in the BWCA or within 10 miles of it. I have seen some awful big scrapes close to deer season opener and seen a few big bucks. I also noticed you run into pockets of deer like in areas of new cuttings close to the BWCA. That said it won't be a numbers game and going into a new area would be tough but it would be a quality hunt. Like Isabella area were talking maybe 5 deer per sq. mile pre-fawn,so maybe 1 buck per sq. mile. I think the Echo trail area has a few more deer in the BWCA area.

I do most of my deer hunting by Longville which once was big woods,but now it is trail riddled and too many hunters to count,being a lakes area where people have cabins and the first big chunks of public land.
Also maybe soon just bow hunt and muzzleloading which I love.

I would like to hear from 2old4u again. Your 20+_ experience sparks my interest. Is there a way to get your phone # and still maintain your privacy? In regards to pinetrees reference to wilderness Northern Mi. baiting has hurt deer quality even in Northern Mi. You shoot the small buck over bait, he never becomes the 10 pt. also they become nocturnal easily.

quote wolfie: "I would like to hear from 2old4u again. Your 20+_ experience sparks my interest. Is there a way to get your phone # and still maintain your privacy? In regards to pinetrees reference to wilderness Northern Mi. baiting has hurt deer quality even in Northern Mi. You shoot the small buck over bait, he never becomes the 10 pt. also they become nocturnal easily."

I agree baiting sucks.
I have a friend who was a wildlife biologist(retired) for the USFS in Upper Michigan and who owns land and lived up there. He was and is a avid hunter.
He also says baiting has really ruined the sport of deer hunting and the quality of the deer herd and the hunt is gone. He said it is really sick to see some of the elaborate bait stations setups. It also creates a situation for spreading diseases. When it goes that far you might as well pay the farmer and go shoot one of his cows.

The wilderness part in upper Michigan I was curious about and it looked like a nice area?

Pinetree, there have been antler restrictions in place in parts of the U.P., if that is the area you are talking about. There are some nice deer in the western half from Gogebic to the Porcupine Mtns.
Fun hunting as you can get remote and the woods are penetrable. Need ten days to two weeks though and you will still not be all alone.

quote Thwarted: "Pinetree, there have been antler restrictions in place in parts of the U.P., if that is the area you are talking about. There are some nice deer in the western half from Gogebic to the Porcupine Mtns.
Fun hunting as you can get remote and the woods are penetrable. Need ten days to two weeks though and you will still not be all alone."

Thanks for the info,was always curious about the area,my brother and I talked about it different times.

Ken Nordberg was a professor at the U of M and he did a real detailed study of deer and was quite the hunter. I recommend edition 7 of the Deer hunter almanac as well as Kens Deer class on Video. It is a great resource for hunting the north woods. I was going to go up with my brother in October or November weather and his health being the factors. I will go solo is he can't make it.

Better take that deer hunting trip into the BWCA before the Forest Service and several other environmental groups make it illegal to do so.
If you think I'm kidding, just wait and see what happens in the next 3 years (or less) :(

I'll stick with my corn and bean fed Illinois deer...
Not into dragging deer thru the woods anymore...

I have property in Illinois, The family farm is in Kansas, I get my beef straight off the range on my Uncles ranch in Montana, I prefer the the scenic route and new waters and have since 1977. Its why I moved to Minnesota.

quote The Great Outdoors: "Better take that deer hunting trip into the BWCA before the Forest Service and several other environmental groups make it illegal to do so.
If you think I'm kidding, just wait and see what happens in the next 3 years (or less) :("

TGO.........Please say it isn't so.

quote DeanL: "

quote The Great Outdoors: "Better take that deer hunting trip into the BWCA before the Forest Service and several other environmental groups make it illegal to do so.
If you think I'm kidding, just wait and see what happens in the next 3 years (or less) :("

TGO.........Please say it isn't so. "

I'd like to say it isn't so, but the BWCA will have more regulations and restrictions on it within a few years, or less!
We had the Cisco fiasco last December (which is still going on) and out of that came more interesting decisions by the Forest Service, and how they interpret the '64 and '78 Wilderness Acts.
It is illegal to trap animals within the BWCA borders, and sell the fur OUTSIDE of them. It is also illegal to pick several quarts of blueberries in the BWCA, go home, make Blueberry Muffins, and sell them at the farmers market or any bakery OUTSIDE of the BWCA,
It was technically illegal for Dave and Any Freeman's sponsors to use the photos of them using their gear.
This madness will only get worse.

The well documented indoctrination of the countries youth in the theories of preservation over conservation is now working it's way into the public sector...as they knew it would. To get a true account of U.S. history you have to look for texts pre 1900 other wise there are alterations to fit the political agenda of the day....it's why we home shool. The truth will set you free.

quote wolfie: "I would like to hear from 2old4u again. Your 20+_ experience sparks my interest. Is there a way to get your phone # and still maintain your privacy? In regards to pinetrees reference to wilderness Northern Mi. baiting has hurt deer quality even in Northern Mi. You shoot the small buck over bait, he never becomes the 10 pt. also they become nocturnal easily."

Wolfie, just click on the small envelope below 2old4u name and send him an email.

quote The Great Outdoors: "

quote DeanL: "

quote The Great Outdoors: "Better take that deer hunting trip into the BWCA before the Forest Service and several other environmental groups make it illegal to do so.
If you think I'm kidding, just wait and see what happens in the next 3 years (or less) :("

TGO.........Please say it isn't so. "

I'd like to say it isn't so, but the BWCA will have more regulations and restrictions on it within a few years, or less!
We had the Cisco fiasco last December (which is still going on) and out of that came more interesting decisions by the Forest Service, and how they interpret the '64 and '78 Wilderness Acts.
It is illegal to trap animals within the BWCA borders, and sell the fur OUTSIDE of them. It is also illegal to pick several quarts of blueberries in the BWCA, go home, make Blueberry Muffins, and sell them at the farmers market or any bakery OUTSIDE of the BWCA,
It was technically illegal for Dave and Any Freeman's sponsors to use the photos of them using their gear.
This madness will only get worse."

Where were the trapping regulations put into place?

Trapper7
The Forest Service has determined that trapping, THEN selling the fur or Ciscoes OUTSIDE of the BWCA is illegal. Same with the blueberry muffin example I gave.
Local Forest Service head, Gus Smith, told us in a meeting we had last October 24th, 2016, that the '64 and '78 Wilderness Acts only allow activities that enhance outdoor recreation!
Our trapping of Ciscoes does not in any way, shape, or form meet this criteria (along with selling fur or blueberries taken in the BWCA) according to him, even though all of these activities are definitely "Outdoor Recreation!"

What happens in the Boundry waters.....
Stays in the boundary waters

quote The Great Outdoors: "Trapper7
The Forest Service has determined that trapping, THEN selling the fur or Ciscoes OUTSIDE of the BWCA is illegal. Same with the blueberry muffin example I gave.
Local Forest Service head, Gus Smith, told us in a meeting we had last October 24th, 2016, that the '64 and '78 Wilderness Acts only allow activities that enhance outdoor recreation!
Our trapping of Ciscoes does not in any way, shape, or form meet this criteria (along with selling fur or blueberries taken in the BWCA) according to him, even though all of these activities are definitely "Outdoor Recreation!"
"

I am sure you are a LOT more familiar than I am with this stuff, but it seems like the activities you mentioned all have one thing in common... commercial use of the resources in some direct or indirect way. I don't see how deer hunting is any different than walleye fishing and bringing home fillets on your way out. Would it be correct to assume that the enforcement being taken is to prohibit individuals profiting from the resource? As long as you aren't making and selling buckskin gloves or selling backstraps in your restaurant, you would be in compliance??

jamotrade,
Renting canoes, hiring guides, taking tows, and issuing permits are all commercial uses of the BWCA.
All of these "Enhance outdoor recreation" which makes them legal.
However, isn't picking blueberries, trapping fur, and trapping Ciscoes to be used for fishing also considered a form of "Outdoor recreation?"
Deer hunting is not illegal yet as I stated earlier, but the activities the Forest Service now considered banned have been going on since before the Wilderness Act of '64.
With this said, how long before another Forest Service employee decides that other activities should now be considered as not "enhancing outdoor recreation?"
This is the beginning of the end, to what extent remains to be seen.

quote The Great Outdoors: "jamotrade,
Renting canoes, hiring guides, taking tows, and issuing permits are all commercial uses of the BWCA.
All of these "Enhance outdoor recreation" which makes them legal.
However, isn't picking blueberries, trapping fur, and trapping Ciscoes to be used for fishing also considered a form of "Outdoor recreation?"
Deer hunting is not illegal yet as I stated earlier, but the activities the Forest Service now considered banned have been going on since before the Wilderness Act of '64.
With this said, how long before another Forest Service employee decides that other activities should now be considered as not "enhancing outdoor recreation?"
This is the beginning of the end, to what extent remains to be seen."

Feels like a bit of a stretch to me. Taking resources out of the BWCA for commercial gain is a far cry from hunting or fishing for personal use.

I don't see how trapping fur or ciscoes for resale could be considered "outdoor recreation", to me those are purely commercial pursuits with the intent of making money off of resources found within the BWCA.

Renting canoes and other outfitter gear in a way makes money off of the BWCA but it does not do it by removing anything from the BWCA with the intent of making a profit off of it.

I will make this brief, since a complete explanation will take too long.
The taking of furs and Ciscoes is controlled by the Minnesota DNR though it's licensing and permitting system. (The Forest Service has no say in this)
The picking of blueberries in the BWCA has no regulation to the best of my knowledge, but selling them or any product made with them is illegal.
Even taking of photos and allowing them to be used for advertising of a product can also be illegal under this interpretation. (know any party that put extended time in the BWCA, was sponsored by manufacturers, and may be using those photos to promote their product??)
Be very careful of judging what you perceive to be illegal and/or detrimental to the Bdub, as your activity may be next.

From what I can tell its not the actual activity they are targeting, its the intended purpose of the activity. Trapping fur or bait fish, and picking blueberries are not illegal activities (subject to MN DNR regulations), selling the product for profit is the illegal part (subject to Federal Regulation). Similarly I wouldn't expect them to make hunting or fishing illegal since that's also subject to MN DRN regulation, however selling venison or walleye harvested from the BWCA would certainly be illegal for the same reasons selling bait fish or fur would be.

I'll have to do some research on this to see if selling a photo taken within the BWCA is truly illegal. I can see where physically removing a resource (berries, bait fish, furs, etc) that are then sold for profit would be illegal. Commercial exploitation by removing resources could harm the BWCA, I can't see how taking a photo would lead to the same kind of harm.

The other type of exploitation you eluded to by people on a extended trip with sponorships etc is a bit of a gray area but I can see your point on that and I could see an argument being made against something like that.

The words "gray area" are exactly what Ranger Gus Smith said he used when authorizing the one year trip.
The anti Cisco argument was based on some Oyster Bay Company in a national forest in California, check it out.
The trapping of Ciscoes and fur bearers has been legal before the '64 Wilderness Act, and still is
The picking & selling of blueberries, along with fur trapping, are collateral damage to try to stop the Cisco (bait trapping).
The photos being used as advertising are what the FS also said is a gray area.
This is going to be a hot potato for the Forest Service, and things will even be worse in about 30 months, perhaps even for nofish's activities.
If you are ever in Ely, stop in the shop and I can explain the twists and turns of this fiasco in it's entirety.
PS-As far as removing a resource from the BWCA, what was the final tally from your Cisco count, and how many more can be taken before it hits the point of no return?? :)