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NotLight
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09/28/2014 01:16PM   (Thread Older Than 3 Years)
OK, I'm not convinced this is a great idea, but... I've been messing around with making a sled bench. Here's a picture of Rev. 0.1:







It weights ~4.5 lbs. I think I could redo it in 3.5lbs. I used cedar 2x2's and that really thin plywood which isn't supposed to get wet (but I used it anyway).

If I'm skiing all day, and I stop to rest and make some hot chocolate, I have three problems:

(1) If I sit on the ground or on a sheet of plastic, my butt seems to get wet no matter what I do. My legs will stiffen up if it is later in the day.
(2) I always have to root around in my pack for stuff; in particular, the stove.
(3) I do all this messing around with my gloves off, which are then freezing cold when I put the formerly sweaty gloves back on.

So the idea is that I use the bench as follows:

(1) As chair(s), which are always ready to use with no setup.
(2) To keep the stove on a stove board in the middle, always ready to go with no setup
(3) I'm trying to make this chimney/windscreen kind of thing out of aluminum flashing, with a chicken wire top. The idea is to use the heat of the stove as a glove warmer. (or ski binding defroster, sock dryer, etc.)

Notes:

(1) The stove box is structural. It's like a truss in the middle of the bench to support the load across the flimsy 2x2's that support the benchtop.
(2) The stove board pops out of the bench, in case I want to use the stove somewhere else. The wooden stove box on the bench just has an edge lip at the bottom, and the stove board drops into that.
(3) The aluminum flashing chimney folds down, and the stove box has a wooden cover. (I am struggling to make the chimney/windscreen the way I want).

Anyway, suggestions welcome. I am aware of the most obvious "you're not really going to lug that around are you?" I don't know.



 
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09/28/2014 02:41PM  
We tried using that style of sled and even with a low center of gravity we had big issues with the sled tipping. You are going to have a high center of gravity. The difference was we hike and you ski...
NotLight
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09/28/2014 02:54PM  
quote Rob Johnson: "We tried using that style of sled and even with a low center of gravity we had big issues with the sled tipping. You are going to have a high center of gravity. The difference was we hike and you ski..."


What kind of sled worked better? I looked at those Jet Sled Jr's last year that were a bit wider, but I wasn't sure.... When I surfed the web, there also seemed to be a lot of "sled controversy" of the Paris sled vs whatever that green one I have is.

One of my many mistakes on Rev 0.1 was also to have the stove box in the middle of the bench hanging down instead of sticking up. With the stove box hanging down, it makes it hard to pack the heavy duffel under the bench, which I was counting on to lower the center of gravity.

UphillHarry
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09/28/2014 03:24PM  
Heck, it's sure worth a try. Version 0.1 might not be perfect, but that's the only path to version 3.2, which might be awesome. I look forward to hearing the field test results.
NotLight
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09/28/2014 03:32PM  
quote UphillHarry: "Heck, it's sure worth a try. Version 0.1 might not be perfect, but that's the only path to version 3.2, which might be awesome. I look forward to hearing the field test results."


Ya, I think this one is a Mulligan. Maybe the whole idea. But, I am hoping to get input and then do Rev. 0.2. Then I am guessing Rev. 0.2 won't fit with my duffels or something, so another redo, and so on...

09/28/2014 03:58PM  
I think you will have issues. Those types of sleds aren't the best to begin with for winter travel. A toboggan, which is narrower, will track better. Whatever type of sled you use, it works better if it can follow in the track that you make.

You can build or buy a modern wintertrekking toboggan from plastic sheeting, such as the Black River Sled shown in the right photo, then build a wood box to ride on top of it, like the one shown in the other photo (Toboggan is tipped on its side).

NotLight
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09/28/2014 04:11PM  
quote awbrown: "I think you will have issues. Those types of sleds aren't the best to begin with for winter travel. A toboggan, which is narrower, will track better. Whatever type of sled you use, it works better if it can follow in the track that you make.


You can build or buy a modern wintertrekking toboggan from plastic sheeting, such as the Black River Sled shown in the right photo, then build a wood box to ride on top of it, like the one shown in the other photo (Toboggan is tipped on its side).


"


That looks like a much better setup. But how do you go about keeping the slush out of the duffel bag without a lip on the sled? Is the front of the toboggan a bit wider? Or do you just accept and work around the slush issue?

09/28/2014 09:03PM  
I created mine from aluminum and used 1x4 for a lip. Because we snowshoe/hike wider works better. We also use PVC poles in lieu of ropes so that the sleds don't run us over on the downhills.
09/30/2014 10:00AM  
Used that plastic sled at top for years in the orange color(like 20 or so) and minimum tipping problems. Much as to do with load distribution. Tipping problems I could see occur if you are a winter camper with a lot of gear,like stove,hot tent etc. Also great sled for hauling deer out during deer season.
Price of sled is hard to beat.
NotLight
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09/30/2014 10:07AM  
quote PINETREE: "Used that plastic sled at top for years in the orange color(like 20 or so) and minimum tipping problems. Much as to do with load distribution. Tipping problems I could see occur if you are a winter camper with a lot of gear,like stove,hot tent etc. Also great sled for hauling deer out during deer season.
Price of sled is hard to beat."


I suspect both center of gravity AND preventing a load shift matters. I notice on AW's toboggan, the weight is strapped in very tight and cannot shift so much if the sled tilts at an angle. But I have noticed that on most of the ski pulks that I have seen on the web, the straps just go from one lip of the sled to the other, and don't really hold a load at the center of a sled as best as they could if the sled tilts. They just rely on the pulk being full to prevent a load shift when the sled tilts. Plus they seem to be loaded with a low center of gravity.

I am now thinking about a jet sled jr, with a center rail pair on the floor with straps to keep the load centered, and to rest my next rev of the maybe-a-not-great-idea-table on the rails. Probably cedar 2x2" floor rails 12" apart. I am wondering if the rails are stiff enough, if I can cut down some plastic off the jet sled sides or not.

I think the toboggan is good when you have 100+ pounds, but I only have about 50 lbs. I don't think maybe the extra width of the jet sled jr will be a big penalty with that small a load, and it should be less tippy. (Plus I don't want to mess up the green toboggan any more, so I can save it for actual sledding!)

09/30/2014 10:07AM  
NotLight - can the legs be made removeable so the bench top sits flat into the sled? Then when you stop the bench can be lifted and the legs attached? This would porivde you a lower center of gravity while pulling, not to mention a lower profile. I like the concept.
09/30/2014 10:18AM  
You need to put that on a second sled and make either the legs/table fold down flat or flip over so the heavy parts are in the sled...heavy sled first, stove sled second, and I don't think you will have any trouble.
NotLight
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09/30/2014 10:22AM  
quote Doughboy12: "You need to put that on a second sled and make either the legs/table fold down flat or flip over so the heavy parts are in the sled...heavy sled first, stove sled second, and I don't think you will have any trouble."


Thinking about that. But my main goal for the table was to be able to both sit down somewhere, and run the stove, and warm my gloves, without unpacking or fiddling with a single thing. But ya, I think I need some foldability or something maybe.

09/30/2014 12:04PM  
Table legs or folding could be run with gloves on...is what I was thinking, trying to stay within your criteria.
NotLight
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09/30/2014 12:20PM  
quote Doughboy12: "Table legs or folding could be run with gloves on...is what I was thinking, trying to stay within your criteria."


Yes, I'm thinking the stove box has to come off or be hinged to pack low. The bench needs to be shorter then. If the stove box doesn't just sit on the ground, then maybe the stove box attaches at one of it's ends to the bench, and at the other end has fold out legs. Yeah, you could assemble that in a few seconds with gloves.

The bench without the stove box is almost no weight, and with my limited woodworking skills it is hard to make that as light and strong if the legs fold. I think the bench alone without the stove box could easily sit over the rest of the load without folding, and would be useful for sitting on, or double layering a load with something light or small on top of the bench so as to maybe not be top heavy.
09/30/2014 08:01PM  
I used a jet sled for years before a sled dog. It works but even with only 50lbs in it it becomes more of an anchor than a sled in deep snow or sludge. Have you thought of simply sitting on a log or put a portable chair on the top of your gear?

This one folds up for easy transport and it reclines. Now that's comfort!
Northwoodsman
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10/14/2014 10:18AM  
I have NO experience at this but I'm with George. I would go with a portable chair. I would also go with a small backpacking stove or even something like a Jet Boil. Keep both of them handy (pack them knowing that you will use them on the move). I have a feeling that your first version would be making a one-way trip; you would likely burn it for firewood after you arrived at your destination and not try to lug it back to your starting point.
NotLight
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10/14/2014 12:46PM  

Yup, I'm betting the bench gets one short trip across the lake in the sled this winter before it hits the woodpile. But I want to give it one try to see what other problems I can discover. I also want to leave it outside over winter to see how the cheap lightweight plywood and glue holds up in wet snow and real bitter cold.



Northwoodsman
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10/14/2014 01:45PM  
I think that it is great that you are thinking outside the box and trying to come up with a better way to do things. I always enjoy experimenting with things like this. The first prototype will normally serve its' purpose (sort of) and will be semi-planned with a lot of modifications along the way. The second prototype will be planned and changed a dozen or so times before the project actually starts but when it is finished, it works great. Good luck. I can't wait to see the finished product.
1BigPaddle
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10/17/2014 11:32AM  
I wish i had a photo pf my sled, but a few years back i tried to make a "bench" on my sled for sitting. i tried making the legs adjustable so it would not be so top heavy, what i ended up doing was making pontoon arms on the sled. basically my sled turned into a small catamaran( o-v-o )is sorta what it looked liked. it worked well for the lakes, and open county, but got tight in the narrow trails.
bwcamjh
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10/22/2014 08:41PM  
I bought a real plastic milk crate, made a plywood top for it. Used better plywood and cut the edge for overhang around the crate, some poly a couple of holes, a couple of Velcro straps to keep lid on tight, added a foam square hunting seat from Menards 2 for $5, and I have a handy box for hauling gear and a seat for when I get there. All fits on sled or toboggan just fine. I'm sure the top could be modded beyond lip and butt duty.
 
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